Police: College student uses sword to slay intruder

[Ian David]

Edited to re-write subject line, because neither the Washington Post nor Associated Press knows how to write correctly.

Police: College student kills intruder with sword
By BEN NUCKOLS
The Associated Press
Tuesday, September 15, 2009; 11:13 AM

BALTIMORE -- A Johns Hopkins University student armed with a samurai sword killed an intruder in his garage, Baltimore police said Tuesday.

Two laptops and a Sony PlayStation had been stolen by burglars Monday from the home, on University Parkway just blocks from the school, said police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi. Early Tuesday, one of the four Hopkins students who live in the home noticed the garage door was open and took a sword with him to investigate, Guglielmi said.

In the garage, the student told police he discovered a man and when the student told the man to get out, the man accosted him, Guglielmi said. The student defended himself with the sword, cutting off the man's hand and causing a severe laceration to his upper body, he said.

<snip>

More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091500715.html



"Next time, don't fuck with my PlayStation, asshole."

[slackmaster]

1. Unrec for misplaced modifier

:nuke:

[kenny blankenship]

2. Sometimes a chainsaw just won't do

Now a katana...that's a noble weapon, fit for dispensing justice.

[votingupstart]

6. lol - i had the same image in mind when reading this n/t

[wicket]

11. Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead

[krispos42]

17. Then you need an enhanced chainsaw

[proteus_lives]

51. Was thinking the same thing.

+2

Zed's dead baby.

[lumberjack_jeff]

3. Take playstation, pay with life. It is way of samurai. n/t

[polichick]

4. Wow, what a story! nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. This was not, apparently, a silly replica weapon like the Spanish

short sword or the battle-axe I have hanging on my wall.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. +1

[FirstLight]

8. That's classic...

And he took off the guys HAND no less...! Sounds like some dispensing of justice, there... At least the student knew how to handle the sword and didn't end up being hurt as well. If you are going to play with these kinds of weapons, you'd better know how to swing 'em!

I've got a toledo style renfair sword in my closet, and I think I could sill remember how to do some damage if the need arose, though it isn't sharpened it could still make you bleed
...but if the intruder had a gun, I sure wouldn't be able to move fast enough to pull the old movie move "deflect bullet with blade"

:rofl:

[formercia]

9. Doin' the Indiana Jones.

Rule 357 trumps.

[LostInAnomie]

10. You'd think...

... upon seeing some dude with a sword standing there telling you to get out, your first move wouldn't be to try to get physical with him. A lot of criminals are pretty fucking stupid though.

[NutmegYankee]

41. The robber got out of jail Saturday, was robbing a place Monday.

Pretty fucking stupid seems to be the correct description.

[juno jones]

12. Woe to the person who breaks into my pad.

Mr. Jones is a former heavy armor fighter who owns several swords and a bad temper (when confronted) to boot.

Our blades have always been looked upon as emergency defense.

[DKRC]

47. Chainmail & claymor hanging by my bed

I subscibe to Robert Heinlein's view ~ Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.

:evilgrin:

[cliffordu]

76. Simple K-bar and the darkness of my home.

they are completely screwn.

[Hardrada]

87. My Imperial German officer's sword can't hack but can

almost certainly puncture. But I'd have to undo the sword knot to get it out of the scabbard.

[omega minimo]

13. The machines have trained humans to protect them!!!!

:wow:

[Bill McBlueState]

21. heh, that's pretty good

+1

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. If the outlaw swords, only outlaws will............

[aikoaiko]

16. There can be only one.

[SIMPLYB1980]

22. LMAO!

[Swamp Rat]

27. LOL!!

:rofl:

[proteus_lives]

54. "Here we are. Born to be kings...."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrXiaPVeHY

Highlander and Queen rule!!!

[gatorboy]

18. They're considering filing charges against the student?

"Police are interviewing the student and his roommates, and are talking to prosecutors about whether to file charges."

This is being discussed? Why? Simply because he used a sword?

If he had used a gun he would be getting a pat on the back, no doubt. Are guns now mandatory for defense?

[kelly1mm]

24. Without further info it is hard to say but I would be looking to see

if the garage was attached to the house or detached. If attached that would make a self defense (force including deadly force authorized) argument stronger as opposed to defense of property (no use of force authorized). Also would have to know what perp did to accost the student (reasonable fear of safety) and what happened after the hand was severed - was it minutes later he finished him off or was the perp trashing around on the ground in pain when the student did the final deed. Thats what the State's Attorney is looking at.

My opinion is that sometimes when you are robbing people they fight back. Occupational hazard and assumption of the risk.

[armyowalgreens]

32. Why is it a stronger defense if the garage was attached? The intruder attacked him first...

That's really all that needs to be proven. Who gives a fuck where the garage was located?

[kelly1mm]

48. An intruder who enters your residence is considered a threat to life

rather than someone who enters a non-residential building who you would have to prove was a threat. One less factor for the student to have to deal with in a self defense case.

[kenny blankenship]

26. If I were the cop on the scene, I would want to know why

chopping off the dude's hand wasn't sufficient to end the situation where the student felt his life was in danger.

Now, it could be that it was dark and the student could not see that the hand was on the floor. But I'm pretty sure the intruder reacted to the loss of the hand. The question is should the student have interpreted that reaction as "threat neutralized" or was an interpretation of "threat continuing" reasonable under the circumstances. A guy I know who's worked some construction described to me "the hopping dance" that co-workers who have just lost a finger or two to a power tool typically do. Maybe the student saw this hopping dance up close, and interpreted it as a chaotic attack, not knowing he had lopped off the intruder's hand.

Whenever you kill someone you're going to be asked a lot of hard questions from people who're not inclined to believe you.

[petronius]

29. Exactly. Personally, I'm going to lay off the "yee-haw!" jokey attitude until we know

the killing was justified. Actually, considering someone is dead, I'm probably not going to joke or celebrate at all... :shrug:

[slutticus]

33. From my experience with Soulcalibur, once you start a combo move....there's no turning back.

[Rude Dog]

74. Sure there is.

Guard.

I'd call that a good plan for that and for real life. Best offense is a good defense and all that.

(And yes, you can stop most combos by guarding mid-combo. Hell, the CPU can guard mid-swing, so what's that mean for us?)

[TCJ70]

35. Possible explanation...

I just read the article and this part stuck out to me:

---------------------
"When he said that, the suspect lunged at him, kind of forced the kid against the wall, and he struck him with the sword," Guglielmi said.

The intruder's left hand was nearly severed - Guglielmi described it as "hanging on by a thread" - and the man suffered a severe cut to the upper body. The 49-year-old suspect, whom police described as a habitual offender, died at the scene.
---------------------

Makes me wonder whether or not, since it was dark, the intruders upper body was also caught in the initial attack, leading to him bleeding to death. Just a theory...

[kenny blankenship]

40. Done in One, eh? That's plausible

But I bet the DA is entertaining a plausible counter theory: that the intruder's hand was up to intercept a blow. To some extent this will probably come down to "He-said, he's-dead" and who-do-you-believe. Do you believe the guy who lived to talk about it, or the guy who can't be reached comment without a Ouija board? The blood on the floor had better not contradict the student's statement that he was backed up to a wall before he slashed.

[ddeclue]

44. I'm inclined to give the sword guy the benefit of the doubt

considering he was the one being robbed and it was HIS home.

A man's home is his castle - in this case a medieval one..

:wow:

[DireStrike]

109. Should be pretty easy to see if the arm was in blocking position when severed

However, that doesn't mean the robber wasn't advancing, posing a threat, and THEN forced to block the guy's defensive sword swing.

I think if the guy gets his story straight about the fight, he can show he was defending himself... whether he was or not. Hope he was, and/or hope he's smart enough to get his story straight and keep it that way.

[slampoet]

36. exactly.

[NutmegYankee]

39. Could have been the other way around too - chest hit, then hand.

[Statistical]

52. He didn't want the score penalty for breaking the combo?

Seriously I think it was an adrenaline thing.

People often fire weapon multiple times in self defense.

Fight or flight in a life or death situation is a powerful drive. Those who haven't been in combat look at it logically when it is anything but logical. In Iraq the only time I ever needed to fire my weapon I am 100% positive I fired 4 bursts (1 rounds). I would have bet my life on it. Someone how my weapon was empty and I always checked mags before loading it. I "magically" fired 18 additional rounds in there somewhere.

He likely made a slash and stab as a single "mental action". The guy was dead before it registered to him that he was handless.

[Posteritatis]

60. With a good sword both sets of injuries could well have been the same blow

And if the guy didn't have much training, he might not have been making the most controlled swing (which would make multiple injuries in one swing more likely).

[pyoom]

86. That's a good way of putting the issue. nt

[Lance_Boyle]

99. likely that the hand chop came after the slash to the upper torso

perp charges, student slashes, perp reacts by raising hand in defense (or continued offense), student slashes again, but ends up removing perp's hand.

Cops should be thankful they don't have to arrest the fucking home invader, not harassing the innocent man who dispatched him.

[whopis01]

105. From reading the article, it sounds like tht was sufficient to end the situation

It does not sound like the student continued to attack the intruder. It sounds like it was all done with a single swipe.

[Irreverend IX]

42. This is Baltimore, not Texas.

If he used a gun he'd be in jail now. Maryland only gives concealed carry permits to the very well-connected, and the local politicians hate self-defense.

[LisaL]

49. Correct me if I am wrong, but in TX he wouldn't even have to

claim self-defense. It is legally allowed in TX to defend ones property to the death of whoever tries to take the property, I believe.

[Statistical]

56. There are conditions but genrally speaking yes. It is not a blanket immunity though. n/t

[subcomhd]

64. correct. nt

[struggle4progress]

50. Maybe because the proper response to "I killed him with my sword" isn't necessarily "Well, OK then"

[tigereye]

59. "well, ok then"

:rofl: I'm sorry, it's not funny, but it is!

[XemaSab]

108. .

:P

[Posteritatis]

53. In a lot of cases, discussing it is automatic or mandatory

This happened. Is there something here we should file charges about? Let's look and see if there is. If there isn't, then we don't file charges, even though we discussed it.

I'd imagine the student's going to be alright with this one, but it makes sense that the cops look fairly closely at something when a dead body is involved just to make sure. It's as likely as not a formality, especially if it was a clear-cut (... pun not intended) case of self defense.

[krispos42]

85. It's a homicide

They have to consider it. The "justifiable" part of "justifiable homicide" places the burden of proof on the citizen who did the killing.

Hopefully, the proof is so obvious and overwhelming that the DA will just let it drop.

[Arkana]

19. Hiro! Hiro Nakamura!

YA-TAAAA!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. When does the next season start?

edit - I CAN find out myself, but if you just happen to know off the top of your head...

[Arkana]

30. VERY soon.

Next Monday, I believe, is the season premiere. 2 hours!

[TCJ70]

20. LEAVE SEPHIROTH ALONE!!!

Or just don't touch his Playstation, bro!

[TheMightyFavog]

25. Don't mess with geeks. This goes double for Anime geeks.

[fishnfla]

28. guess the sword mightier than the pen after all

[snake in the grass]

88. I doubt the robber was carrying a pen.

If he did, he may still be alive.

[woo me with science]

31. A SAMURAI sword, no less!

Justice will prevail, grasshopper!

[Posteritatis]

55. Sorta OT, but I wish at least one news article would just say "katana." (nt)

[Initech]

34. Was this man Dwight Schrute from "The Office" by any chance?

[Ikonoklast]

37. Never bring a fist to a swordfight, I guess.

Unless you have every intention of leaving it there.

[smoochpooch]

38. Uh oh, I think I know who the student was....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU

[ddeclue]

43. What?? No Monty Python / Black Knight jokes?

:crazy:

[BoneDaddy]

104. Come back

I'll bite your kneecaps off.

[Soylent Brice]

45. BEST STORY OF THE DAY

K&R

[mistertrickster]

46. For 10,000 years, swords were the weapon of choice. As this example shows well,

old technology doesn't stop working just because something more effective (guns) has been adopted.

[proteus_lives]

57. Once the kid gets over the shock......

He'll realize he's got one the best drinking stories of all time.

[Statistical]

58. I would buy him a round. n/t

[proteus_lives]

61. As would I.

:toast:

[Statistical]

63. Of course if somone in a bar told me he defended himself with a sword...

I doubt I would believe him. :)

[t0dd]

89. The killing of another human being shouldn't be the subject of drunk conversation

Even if the intruder had it coming, I would never make a joke of it or use it to impress others.

"Yeah, man, so there I was, with the burglar. He lunged at me. That's when I pulled out the sword and sliced off his hand and cut across his belly. With my own bare hands! And here's the best part: he fell to the floor, screaming in pain, and I bet at that exact moment he wondered what series of bad decisions lead him to his present situation. You could tell all this regret and fear swelled up inside of him. And, man! There was this pool of blood everywhere. And I saw the life drain from his eyes. Yeah..."

"Great story! Tell it again!"

[proteus_lives]

100. Buzz-kill.

Google "black humor."

[DireStrike]

110. Shouldn't, but will be.

And it will be hailed as a great story.

Such is the human condition.

[Tim01]

62. Shouldn't this be in the gun forum? Oh, wait............ nt

[slampoet]

65. Something doesn't smell right. Would YOU attack first if the person had a sword?

No one I have ever known would and i have met some hard ass mofo's in my life.

[western mass]

66. dude pulled a gun on a cop...

clearly, this was just the last in a long string of poor life decisions.

[slampoet]

97. Yes, true and sad.

Funny though how everybody seems to be missing the point that trying to confront a thief who isn't inside your house with a sword, is Also a poor life decision no matter the outcome.

A playstation 3 is not worth someone's life no matter what the prior convictions are. Anyone who says different is on the path of "Some animals are more equal than other animals."

If this were two college student killing over a video game DU'ers would not be high-five-ing each other and making jokes over a corpse, so apparently they really do think some people's lives are worth more than others.

[LisaL]

67. No I wouldn't. But neither would I be a "habitual offender."

So your question is neither here nor there.

[slampoet]

69. "habitual offender" doesn't mean devoid of reason. Nice Straw man.

And remember there are people out there who are so screwed up they would kill someone who stole their used band-aid collection and call it self defense.

[LisaL]

70. What do you call alleged pulling a gun on a police officer?

Read the article.
:eyes:

[Name removed]

72. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AngryAmish]

96. Do you know a lot of criminals?

cause in my experience they are both really stupid and have really poor impulse control. Devoid of reason? Somewhat, yes.

[slampoet]

98. Know? maybe not, But I have met a fair amount of smart criminals.

For instance i've crossed paths with Vincent "Buddy" Cianci, Henry Kissinger, Raymond J. Patriarca Jr. and an assortment of car boost artists, shoplifters, drug manufacturers, and even a couple molesting priests. Also I have an in-law and several friends who met or interviewed Ted Bundy and the Green River killer. I am also told that nearly the ENTIRE COUNTY my grandparents grew up in was involved in the bootlegging trade during prohibition and that back when Irish people couldn't get banks to lend them money my great great Grandfather did lend money in violation of the law.
Also like nearly everybody in Rhode Island i have met the reporter Jeffrey Derderian. He is the reporter who ran such a shithole nightclub that he ended up killing 100 people in the Station Nightclub Fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire

I don't think any of these were stupid (except Jeffrey Derderian) and most had decent impulse control, but i can agree with you that people who have no opportunities other than crime are in that position due to SOMEONE'S stupidity and poor impulse control whether it is their own or others in their lives.

But i think you can also admit that confronting someone who isn't inside your house with a sword, rather than waiting for the police (or at least backup), is also an action which is stupid and shows poor impulse control.

It seems that the only reason we are giving the student a pass is because he is in college and doesn't have priors.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BoneDaddy]

93. Must be nice to excuse every form of behavior

by blaming your life circumstances. When do you actually hold anyone accountable for their choices or is everything someone else's or society's fault?

[slampoet]

94. Must be nice to know YOU are better than they are and would react better in every way.

You didn't see the thread and you are giving a person who goes out into the dark to confront someone with a sword a pass too.

How would you feel if this sword person lived next to you?

Remember, this sword wielding person had a choice and they decided NOT to wait for the cops and ALSO decided not to just let the possessions in the garage go.

I wonder how this person will feel in 10 years when they see that same video game system at a yard sale selling for $10 bucks and realize that they killed someone over that now obsolete game system.

I wouldn't kill even the worst scum of the earth if it was just to keep a Playstation 3.

But i guess some people care more about video games than I care about flawed people.

[BoneDaddy]

102. Do you live in reality

or just some utopian fantasy with unicorns and pretty flowers?

You think it is about a Playstation? Have you ever been in a fight in your life? Do you know the feeling of terror you feel when someone is trying to hurt you? I severly doubt it.

This is about someone entering into your sacred space, to steal from you at the least, and possibly harm you and your loved ones at worst. Your superior attitude is crap too.

I don't care about "flawed people" when they are breaking into my home. I don't care about their upbringing, whether daddy and mommy loved them enough or any other of their personal failings. They have broken the social code and I have NO IDEA what their intentions are.

Sure, I can have a compassionate conversation about how we need to help our brothers and sisters who have suffered in this world and how we, as a people, need to help alieviate their pain, but not when they are in my house in violation.

[BoneDaddy]

103. And

where do you get the irrational idea that I think I am better than them or act better in every way? Stop creating straw men arguments that I never even hinted at.

[slampoet]

106. Your entire post above is more straw than in Iowa.

The Student didn't call the cops
The Student didn't call the cops
The Student didn't call the cops
The Student didn't call the cops


a neighbor who heard the dying man's screams did.

The break in wasn't in the student's home but in their garage.

This is a garage the student has rented for less than a few weeks. How is that sacred space?




And YES i have had someone's fingers around my throat trying to choke the life out of me. i have also had a gun in my face and i have been beaten and left for dead.

I Learned to forgive. This is what i learned from my Mother who was a DETROIT COP.

I have made my own peace with violence.


Why are you changing the circumstances of the situation to try to justify the taking of a life?
i will assume you just didn't read the article because I figure otherwise you are just altering facts to justify killing and whatever god you pray to is looking down on you, ashamed.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

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[DireStrike]

111. I wish he lived next to me.

I'm sure we'd get along, and that would solve the problem of "backup".

[Mixopterus]

75. Easy

Escalation and counter-escalation. People do stupid shit when the threat of violence is in the air.

[slampoet]

95. Thank you for your constructive logical explanation.

I fewer words you defined the problem without seeking to justify killing someone like so many other people do on these kinds of posts.

[johnaries]

68. "There can be only one."

[demwing]

71. Unbelievable euphamism

"Rice was convicted in 2008 of unauthorized removal of property and sentenced to 18 months."

Unauthorized removal of property? Really?

Isn't that something like calling murder "Unauthorised cessation of life" ???

[Ian David]

90. unauthorized removal of property

http://www.michie.com/maryland_print/lpExt.dll/mdcode/9169/96e2/9734?f=templates&fn=document-frame-chapter.htm&2.0#JD_cr7-203

[demwing]

92. I think you misunderstand me. I fully believe it to be a real legal issue

I just laugh at the ridiculousness.

[MrScorpio]

73. About time someone took on the Goddammed ninja burglars nt

[Wizard777]

77. I think a local news broadcaster had the best one.

Burglar killed with sword. The police are piecing it together. News at 6:00.

:rofl:

[Cid_B]

78. Fair enough...

When I live in Europe, I've got my sword and PR-24(side handle baton) within easy reach. Its pretty easy to identify that this is an American's home so odds are they suspect me to be armed anyways but on the off chance they decide to break in there is some chance instead of 0.

[XemaSab]

79. This would only be better if the student was half black and half Korean

and a CompSci major delivering pizzas to make ends meet. :D

[Indenturedebtor]

81. Lol is that a Snowcrash reference?

This thread rules :woohoo:

[XemaSab]

83. Did you really have to ask?

You didn't, did you... ;)

[Codeine]

82. I love that book.

"When you are wrestling for possession of a sword, the man with the handle always wins."

[Codeine]

80. "Finish Him!"

"FATALITY!"

[thelordofhell]

84. This sounds easy to me

Guy told criminal to stop. Criminal moved toward guy. Guy swung sword in a downward chop. Criminal instictively put hand up to block. Hand chopped and chest slashed. Criminal passes out from shock and bleeds to death.

[opihimoimoi]

101. now to mark the sword with a symbol....like an X

[thelordofhell]

112. Dude, it's college

Everyone knows you put a sticker on the sword. Y'know like the football players do on their helmets.

[opihimoimoi]

113. Us ole folk prefer the X somewhere on the sword....

[VOX]

114. They'll get my samurai sword when they pry it from my cold dead fingers...

Dude went all Toshiro Mifune on the intruder's ass...or hand...same result.