|
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend Bookmark this thread |
This topic is archived. |
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
Christa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:27 PM Original message |
Pregnant mother forced to give up IVF baby |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:28 PM Response to Original message |
1. Oh boy. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:28 PM Response to Original message |
2. Umm... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:29 PM Response to Original message |
3. Whoa, Paging Solomon |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 04:41 PM Response to Reply #3 |
24. No need for Solomon -- just a clear focus on reproductive rights. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Beetwasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:48 PM Response to Reply #24 |
32. You Would Think |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 07:02 PM Response to Reply #24 |
41. If the bank screws up and deposits someone elses check in your account.... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
MattBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:55 PM Response to Reply #3 |
40. No shit.... To think that we once thought "The handmaidens Tale" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:30 PM Response to Original message |
4. That is a hell of a costly mistake |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
BuyingThyme (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:32 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. And rent? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:32 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. That would be included in the medical |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:57 PM Response to Reply #9 |
19. Hmmmm....MOST IVF's are in the $12,000-$20,000 range but this was a |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ddeclue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:31 PM Response to Original message |
5. yeah we "need" tort reform... right... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
marybourg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:56 PM Response to Reply #5 |
18. All them "frivolous lawsuits." nt. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
adamuu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:24 AM Response to Reply #5 |
95. good observation n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:30 AM Response to Reply #5 |
96. Yep, cause every medical lawsuit is a IVF baby. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Shell Beau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:31 PM Response to Original message |
6. This was a storyline on Private Practice. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Sultana (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:32 PM Response to Original message |
8. OMG, I would raise holy hell if I were in her position |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:34 PM Response to Original message |
10. So this is the last time she can get pregnant but now the are looking for a carrier |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
marybourg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:54 PM Response to Reply #10 |
16. What makes you believe this was covered by insurance? nt |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 04:20 PM Response to Reply #16 |
23. Well, I know two people who used IVF and both were covered by insurance |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
rebecca_herman (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 04:57 PM Response to Reply #10 |
64. They didn't do the procedure for a 4th child |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 05:27 PM Response to Reply #64 |
67. They had 2 kids naturally 15 years ago and an IVF baby1.5 years ago. This would be their 4th child. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
WeDidIt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:39 PM Response to Original message |
11. In the U.S., she would not be forced to hand it over |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:53 PM Response to Reply #11 |
15. they are in the US - they are in Ohio |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 04:44 PM Response to Reply #15 |
25. No, she carried the fetus -- so she's the mother. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:43 PM Response to Reply #25 |
30. It's about the genetics not the host mother. That's how they rule on these things. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
surrealAmerican (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:58 PM Response to Reply #11 |
20. This IS in the US. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maine-ah (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:41 PM Response to Original message |
12. possesion 9/10ths of the law? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
CoffeeCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:42 PM Response to Original message |
13. This woman and her husband were on... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 04:03 PM Response to Reply #13 |
21. My wife and I saw this on the Today show literally 10 minutes after our own IVF transfer |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
rug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:02 PM Response to Reply #13 |
34. This is interesting. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
AngryOldDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:54 AM Response to Reply #13 |
50. I have one question about that. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
rebecca_herman (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 04:59 PM Response to Reply #50 |
65. I doubt they could prevent an abortion |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
rvablue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 05:06 PM Response to Reply #13 |
66. Sad. Hopefully the biological parents can keep some |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
CoffeeCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:26 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. From what was said during the interview... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:44 PM Response to Original message |
14. Note: this is in the UK. I suspect in the US she would be keeping the baby. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
marybourg (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 03:55 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. They are in the U.S. - Ohio. nt. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kestrel91316 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:09 PM Response to Reply #17 |
28. oops, my bad |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Fuzz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 04:04 PM Response to Original message |
22. Seriously fucked up. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 04:47 PM Response to Original message |
26. why would they HAVE to turn it over...? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:54 PM Response to Reply #26 |
33. Couldn't the "other man" sue you for legal rights though, cause it is "his" child. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 01:13 AM Response to Reply #33 |
43. lots of states haven't updated their laws on what constitutes parentage(?)... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:31 PM Response to Reply #26 |
37. Seems like the genetic parents are getting a freebie...Someone else's uterus carried the baby |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 01:14 AM Response to Reply #37 |
44. i would hope that they get a VERY NICE settlement... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 08:54 AM Response to Reply #44 |
48. Yes - I read in another article today that they are going to make sure the |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:22 AM Response to Reply #37 |
57. The biological parents didn't ask for this to happen either. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:02 PM Response to Original message |
27. Did I miss something in the article? I can't see where they are being legally forced? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:40 PM Response to Reply #27 |
29. The doctor gave them two options: have an abortion or give it up to the genetic parents. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 05:43 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. 'The couple, from Sylvania, Ohio, decided early on that they would not terminate the pregnancy but |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:02 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. Hmm, I've read a couple of articles on this and it's unclear. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:20 PM Response to Reply #35 |
36. It seems they were suggested choices by the doctor...from your article. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:34 PM Response to Reply #29 |
71. The doctor could not force them into either of those options. THINK people. THINK. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
liberalhistorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:04 AM Response to Reply #71 |
81. I would think, however, that in cases of IVF, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:36 AM Response to Reply #81 |
88. Often there are various legal contracts written up, especially where donor gametes are used |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:43 AM Response to Reply #88 |
89. There are forms you sign before both egg retrieval and embryo transfer... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 01:24 AM Response to Reply #89 |
91. Oh please. None of that fine print says "If we slip you the wrong embryos" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:20 AM Response to Reply #91 |
94. I apologize - I was thought I was discussing this with someone who knew what they were talking... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:10 AM Response to Reply #91 |
100. For anyone interested - here is a link to some IVF consent forms |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
liberalhistorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 10:47 AM Response to Reply #91 |
102. How do you know that? Have YOU read the fine print? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:20 AM Response to Reply #71 |
83. They can't keep something that isn't theirs...note the bank error reference... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:29 AM Response to Reply #83 |
85. You equate children with property. Nice. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:33 AM Response to Reply #85 |
87. They are in this case. The biological couple pays hundreds of $$ per year |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 01:01 AM Response to Reply #87 |
90. That argument makes an elderly parent in a skilled facility a piece of property too |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
GodlyDemocrat (388 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 01:17 AM Response to Reply #27 |
45. They are doing the right thing, but the clinic has to pay out of the wazoo for this |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:36 AM Response to Reply #45 |
59. According to what I read, they hired a surrogate to carry their remaining embryos, and they've |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
REP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:35 PM Response to Original message |
38. But giving up a newborn for adoption is so much easier if it's your own DNA, right? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 06:55 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. I'm not sure I understand your question. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Gwendolyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-21-09 07:06 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Are you talking about anti-abortion idiots who claim that a good alternative... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
uncle ray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 03:07 AM Response to Reply #38 |
46. for many people for who it is an option, there are no "great" options. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
brendan120678 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:04 AM Response to Reply #38 |
49. Because some people are opposed to abortion, perhaps? (nt) |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:20 AM Response to Reply #38 |
55. Not adoption. The baby will go to the biological parents who |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Dorian Gray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 05:16 AM Response to Original message |
47. My heart goes out to them |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
daedalus_dude (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
51. I don't think they should be forced to give it up. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:18 AM Response to Reply #51 |
54. But it is known who the biological parents are, and these |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
daedalus_dude (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 11:34 AM Response to Reply #54 |
60. Hww. The question how one defines "biological parent" still looms. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 11:41 AM Response to Reply #60 |
62. Biological - connected by direct genetic relationship rather than by adoption or marriage. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 11:50 AM Response to Reply #60 |
63. "which party will be harmed more..." |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:36 PM Response to Reply #51 |
72. They were not forced. It was their decision. I saw an interview of the couple. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:55 PM Response to Reply #72 |
78. This is the article posted on CNN. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 11:55 PM Response to Reply #78 |
80. This idea that they were "forced" is utter and complete, sloppy nonsense. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Bill McBlueState (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:14 AM Response to Original message |
52. I have to wonder about the word "forced" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:16 AM Response to Reply #52 |
53. They were told they would have to give the child up, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:39 PM Response to Reply #53 |
73. No. They came to this decision of their own volition. A doctor can't enforce custody or |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:51 PM Response to Reply #73 |
77. The doctor can not but a court can. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:10 AM Response to Reply #77 |
82. ONE solitary court case does not = settled law. They did what they wanted to do, not forced to. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:31 AM Response to Reply #82 |
86. Don't look too deep here - this is a property rights issue. The embryo belongs to |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 01:36 AM Response to Reply #86 |
92. Embryo does not = pregnancy. Pregnancy does not = child. Child does not = property. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:21 AM Response to Reply #52 |
56. This is unclear to me also but it the embryo isn't theirs, whether they're "forced" to give it back |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Doremus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:35 AM Response to Original message |
58. No, they weren't forced to give it up. They're doing so voluntarily. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
suninvited (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 11:36 AM Response to Original message |
61. I read the story yesterday |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 06:49 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. No. According to them, they could have aborted the fetus or |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:42 PM Response to Reply #61 |
74. You are correct. It was this couples choice to give the baby to the bio parents |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:48 PM Response to Reply #74 |
75. Not exactly. Legally they will have to give up the child to |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 12:25 AM Response to Reply #75 |
84. You're like a virus, aren't you? You don't know how a challenge would have turned out based on ONE |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:53 AM Response to Reply #84 |
99. Just because I point out the fact that the law was not on their side, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:32 PM Response to Original message |
70. Misleading headline. The couple talked it over and decided it was the right thing to do. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 09:49 PM Response to Reply #70 |
76. Had they decided to keep the baby, they would have lost |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Maru Kitteh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 01:38 AM Response to Reply #76 |
93. I admire your perfect ability to predict the future based on ONE case. You must win like EVERY |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:50 AM Response to Reply #93 |
98. Do you have any understanding as to what "legal precedent" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 09:40 AM Response to Reply #93 |
101. Don't need legal precedent anyways - bottom line is you can't keep |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
BoneDaddy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Sep-22-09 10:02 PM Response to Original message |
79. wow what a horrible |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cherish44 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Sep-23-09 08:44 AM Response to Original message |
97. She's doing the right thing |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Sat May 04th 2024, 10:18 AM Response to Original message |
Advertisements [?] |
Top |
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators
Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.
Home | Discussion Forums | Journals | Store | Donate
About DU | Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.
© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC