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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:51 PM
Original message
murdered girlfriend and RA -- it's a "domestic disturbance" -- no big deal
the shooter was on the loose, "possibly in another state," and the attitude seemed to be "well, it's domestic in nature."

33 people might still be alive if "domestic" violence were taken more seriously.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. What are you 'talking' about?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. the news
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. If the woman down the street from you is killed do they lockdown your whole town?
A domestic violence murder is horrific, but usually not followed by a mass killing of un-related victims....
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. if the murderer is on the loose -- yes, the schools in my neighborhood have
locked down until the suspect is caught.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. see -- it's not that it was a woman -- it's that the killer was loose
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Exactly.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. i sense a great deal of frustration watching from student journos at the pressers
about the lack of response after the 7am shooting. i think if i were a VMI student or parent i'd be outraged too.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't know about lockdown. But...
When someone is shot in a neighborhood, the police will block the streets around the area and have a helicopter looking for the perp if he is still on the loose. At least that's what happens here.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. actually many "domestic" murders...
do involve multiple killings...though not on this scale. Some men go after not only their ex, but their children and her family as well. The simple fact is, like most "domestic" killings...the cops didn't bother to look for the killer and it this case it resulted in a whole helluva lot of dead people.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. Yeppers, the cops decided that there was no need to track down the killer.
C'mon - do you think the killer had an arrow over his head spotlighting him? How exactly were the cops supposed to go out looking for someone with no name and no description? If the cops had heard at 7:45 that the killer was an Asian male and started stopping all Asian males in the vicinity, they'd have been accused of profiling. Real life isn't like television. It takes more than an hour ( less commercials) to find a criminal.
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Common Sense Party Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Exactly. It's NOT TV, it's real life, and it's chaos and confusion.
These Hindsight 20/20 people make me laugh. As if THEY would have known EXACTLY what was going down and would have responded PERFECTLY.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. violent crimes committed in the vicinity of our schools ...
... will cause a lock down until the perpetrator is found or found to be definitely not in the area
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. No but he didn't just kill his girlfriend
He killed the RA as well. The campus should have been locked down.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Not just schools - whole neighborhoods
I've seen that happen.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. that's the way it goes in Nashville
happens for bank robberies too
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
13. Serious question
What would have happened if they had locked down the entire school? Would he have gone dorm room to dorm room? This guy was bent on destruction.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. think about that for a second -- if the school were ON ALERT -- this wouldn't have happened
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. why? n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. people wouldn't be in class -- he wouldn't have been able to walk into a
building thick with students and faculty to shoot his fish in a barrel.

THEY WAITED TWO AND A HALF HOURS! WHAT IF YOUR KID WENT TO VT?
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. What I am saying is that this guy was intent on killing people
if they had locked down the toll might be different, the bodies might have been piled elsewhere, the situation still tragic, but kids were still going to die today at the hand of this evil man, whether it was in a classroom, a dorm hall, or in the cafeteria.

I am in agreement with you that the police are often negligent in responding seriously to domestic issues and that is often tragic.

I do wonder if a lock down would've been effective. It might have just confined a different group of kids to a different building. We don't have enough information yet to make any speculation and I think it might be wise to wait to point fingers. I suspect that had the whole campus been locked down many on DU would've cried fascism, this is the result of the patriot act, etc had the event not escalated.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. i think DU'ers can differentiate between a lockdown b/c of a SPREE KILLING
and being rounded up for political views.

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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. wow, just trying to have a discussion here about the effectiveness of a lockdown
and the rampant finger pointing.

you want to fight, you want to fight, I guess. :shrug:

I have already seen countless posts, threads even, about folks speculating how this will be used to suspend civil liberties, I have no doubt it could've happened here.

By the way, this was not a "spree" killing, by definition, until he moved on - so, the Duers would've had no way to make that judgment.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. the point is that they didn't lockdown the whole campus
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Well, going dormroom to dormroom is a lot slower method of killing people
Thus giving police and security personel a better chance of stopping this guy. And I imagine that the death count would have been a lot lower.

Instead this guy is free to wander across the campus, enter a couple of classrooms and kill wholesale.

The fact that VT didn't lock down as soon as the first shootings took place is unacceptable, and I predict that they will be paying out a lot of stiff settlement money. Every single public institution that I know of has lockdown procedures to protect people. Apparently VT thought is was just fine to have classes continue while a shooter was on the loose.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. at the first presser -- one of the FIRST questions was "what is your lockdown
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 08:19 PM by nashville_brook
policy." the stammering was amazing. there wasn't a lockdown policy -- or there was and it wasn't followed.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Exactly what I think
The same thing would have happened -- just different people would have died.

:sigh:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. How does a DORMITORY (i.e., a MULTIPLE-dwelling) = "domestic disturbance"??
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 08:04 PM by WinkyDink
By ANY definition, this was a MURDER on CAMPUS.

And students and staff should have been WARNED. I believe police and TPTB have: cell-phones to dormitories and classrooms; loud-speakers; alarms.

A huge ball seems to have been criminally and incompetently dropped.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. that was my first reaction!
"domestic disturbance" suggests at least that the people live together. this guy barges into the dorm at 7am and kills two people and it's seemingly treated with a yawn.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. no big deal? i would guess that is solely your decision that police thought two murdered
where no big deal. you dont have a clue. because they didnt lock down the school in no way made these murders no big deal. gona type something, at least have somethig factual instead sensationist b.s
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. have a look at the news -- listen to the questions people are asking
the first killings were NOT treated with the seriousness that anyone expected.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. you mean lock down? because they did not lock down does not mean
cops didnt take murders serious. they probably didnt put together two murder in room = mas murder across campus. people say now it wasnt taken seriously because there was mass murder. on all the many homocides that does happen where there is not mass murder they dont come out and say it wasnt taken seriously.

i dont have to find a place to blame anyone, but the person that was sick enough to do this act. but it sure does seem to be a mentality where no one can accept shit happens, cannot possibly be. has to be someones fault somewhere. or else that implies NONE of us can be safe. and that is the reality. to predict the possiblility of this outcome is asking for soemthing that cannot be.

the person who committed these acts are solely responsible. the only one to have insight to what was to come.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. when he was allowed to escape and wander around for 2 1/2 hours, the blame
got spread around.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. he was "allowed" to escape? what... cops were standing around time of murder
and said, hey, ... go on outta here and wander around?

i didnt hear that story. i assumed a murder would have to have been reported, cops come in, start investigating, trying to patch things together. i didnt have a clue the cops "allowed" him to escape

my bad
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. list of spree killings (note the "domestic" components
Prominent spree killings and spree killers

August 1966: student Charles Whitman kills his wife and mother then the following day shoots dead 14 people from a 27-storey clock tower at University of Texas, Austin, before being killed by police.

January 1979: Pupil Brenda Spencer kills two and wounds nine in the playground at Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego, California, USA. She later says, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day." Her crime was the basis for the Boomtown Rats song "I don't like Mondays".

August 1986: Pat Sherrill, a postal worker about to be fired, shoots 14 people dead and kills himself at a post office in Edmond, Oklahoma. This is one of the cases that lead to the coining of the phrase "going postal". Although the US Postal Service is perceived as having a high likelihood of spree killings, in reality more shootings take place in burger bars than in postal offices.

August 1987: Michael Ryan kills his mother then walks through the streets of Hungerford, Berkshire, England, killing 16 and wounding 11 before shooting himself.

September 1989: employee Joseph T Wesbecker walks into Standard Gravure Corporation plant then kills 7 and wounds 12. One of the injured dies three days later. Wesbecker had a history of mental health problems and had been put on disability leave several months earlier, which he regarded as a gross injustice. Two weeks before his spree killing, Wesbecker had been prescribed Prozac. In a subsequent law suit, the allegation that Prozac had tipped Wesbecker over the edge was not proven, although it is believed that Eli Lilly, makers of Prozac, made an out-of-court settlement. John Cornwell, who covered the trial for the London Sunday Times, describes the case in his book The Power to Harm: Mind, Medicine, and Murder on Trial (Viking Books, ISBN 0670867675). The case raised questions about possible side-effects of Prozac. Whilst many people seem to benefit from Prozac, some (like me) notice no difference, and a small number of people believe that Prozac can increase violent tendencies. Princess Diana's driver and Michael Hutchence (lead singer of INXS) were both taking Prozac, although given the large number of people who take Prozac, whether this is significant is unknown.

June 1990: James Edward Pough kills 10 and wounds 4 in a shooting spree in a General Motors office in Florida. He then kills himself.

October 1991: George Hennard shoots 24 people dead after crashing his truck into a Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas.

April 1995: At a refinery inspection station in Texas, former employee James Simpson shoots and kills the owner , the owner's wife and three workers before shooting himself.

March 1996: in one of the worst spree killings ever, Thomas Hamilton walks into Dunblane Primary School in Scotland and shoots dead 16 children and a teacher before killing himself.

March 1997: Hundreds of pupils at two schools in Sanaa, Yemen, are shot at by a man wielding an assault rifle. Eight people are killed, including six children. the man was sentenced to death the following day.

June 1997: Daniel S Marsden kills 2 employees and wounds 4 more at a plastics factory in Santa Fe Springs. He later kills himself.

October 1997: Two students including a former girlfriend are shot dead by a 16-year-old boy at Pearl High School, Mississippi. It transpires that prior to the shooting the boy had stabbed his mother to death.

December 1997: Former employee Arturo Reyes Torres kills his former boss and three others before being shot dead by police at a maintenance yard in Orange, California.

December 1997: three students are killed by a 14-year-old boy at a prayer meeting at Heath High School, West Paducah, Kentucky

March 1998: Following a dispute over pay, accountant Matthew Beck kills the Connecticut Lottery Corporation's president and three of his supervisors. He then kills himself.

March 1998: Four pupils and a teacher are killed by two boys aged 11 and 13 at Westside Middle School, Jonesboro, Arkansas.

April 1999: Dylan Harris and Eric Klebold, both pupils at Columbine High School in Littleton, Denver, Colorado, walk into the school armed with guns and home-made bombs and kill 15 before killing themselves. Ethnic minorities and jocks (the school's sporting heroes) appear to be singled out.

April 1999: In Salt Lake City, Sergei Babarin opens fire in the Mormon Family History Library. He kills two people, wounds 4 more and is then shot dead by police.

June 1999: In Michigan, former patient Joseph Brooks Jnr shoots his psychiatrist and five others dead before turning the gun on himself.

July 1999: In Atlanta, Georgia, day trader Mark Barton kills his wife and two children, then visits two brokerage firms and shoots nine people and wounds a further 13 before killing himself.

November 1999: In the German town of Bad Reichenhall, a teenager breaks into his father's gun cabinet, then opens fire on people passing his apartment then kills his sister and himself.

November 1999: a 15-year-old student in Meissen, East Germany, takes bets from fellow pupils that he would dare to stab his teacher to death and then carries out the dare. He is later jailed for seven years.

November 1999: disgruntled former Xerox employee Byron K Uyesugi kills 7 people at a Xerox office in Honolulu.

Boxing Day, 26 December 2000: software consultant Michael McDermot age 48 walks into Edgewater Technologies at Wakefield near Boston where he has been employed for just less than a year and kills 7 people with an AK47. He carried a shotgun and a hand gun as well. He had been in dispute with the government about alleged unpaid back taxes.

March 2000: a 57-year-old teacher is shot dead by a 16-year-old pupil at a private boarding school in Branneburg, Bavaria, Southern Germany. The teenager, who was in the process of being expelled for failing a drugs test for cannabis, also shot himself.

5 March 2001: 15-year-old student Charles Williams shoots dead two fellow students at California's Santee High School. Williams had been talking about his planned shooting for several days but his comments were not taken seriously.

6 April 2001: after a long period of harassment which included making fun of his stuttering, employee Pierre Lebrun shoots four workers dead then turns the gun on himself at OC Transpo in Ottawa, Canada.

27 September 2001: fourteen members of a regional parliament in Zug, near Zurich, Switzerland, are shot dead in a spree killing by 57-year-old Friedrich Leibacher. Leibacher had a long-running dispute with bus drivers and transport officials and the killing appeared to be the result of a grudge.

February 2002: a pupil who had been expelled from a technical school in Freising, Munich, Germany, killed the headmaster and detonated pipe bombs before killing his boss and a foreman at his place of work. He then killed himself. Another teacher was shot and seriously injured but survived.

March 2002: 33-year-old Richard Durn shoots dead eight councillors and injures nineteen others in the Paris suburb of Nanterre. Durn, who had a history of psychological problems and was frustrated at the lack of attention he was receiving, was arrested but committed suicide two days later by jumping from the window of the room where he was being interviewed.

April 2002: a pupil who was expelled from a school in Erfurt, East Germany, kills seventeen people including fourteen teachers before killing himself.

October 2002: Robert Flores walks into the University of Arizona School of Nursing and shoots dead three of his teachers before killing himself. He had previously mailed a 22-page suicide letter to the Arizona Daily Star.

October 2002: Dick Anderson shoots and kills co-workers David Martin and Jim McCracken minutes after he was fired from his job at a government office in Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada. He then killed himself.

8 July 2003: Doug Williams shot 14 people, killing six, before committing suicide. Twelve of the fourteen victims were black. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission said Lockheed Martin allowed a "racially charged atmosphere" to grow at its factory in Meridian, Mississippi.

July 2004: Elijah Brown kills five people at a Kansas meatpacking plant before turning the gun on himself and committing suicide. Co-workers described him as "strange" and report he was often teased at work, but not for anything in particular.

January 2005: Myles Meyers shoots dead fellow employee at the Toledo North Daimler Chrysler Jeep plant and wounds two others before turning the weapon on himself.

March 2005: 17-year-old Jeff Weise shoots dead 9 people including his grandparents, a teacher and fellow pupils at Red Lake High School on the Chippewa Native American reservation in Minnesota before shooting himself. Weise's father committed suicide four years ago and his mother lives in a nursing home in Minneapolis since suffering brain injuries in a car accident. Witnesses reported that he was teased at school.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. They often kill their family members or SO's first
then move on...
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-16-07 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
35. Are they absolutely sure that the same person committed
Edited on Mon Apr-16-07 09:24 PM by lizzy
both shootings?
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