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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:29 AM Original message |
Why It's Time to Retire the 401(k) |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:32 AM Response to Original message |
1. We're quickly slipping back to the labor practices of the 18th and 19th centuries |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:33 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. IF you can find work at all, that is. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:36 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. Oh think of this as reducing labor costs |
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Kansas Wyatt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:15 AM Response to Reply #5 |
21. The Administration has already said this is going to be a jobless recovery. |
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ejpoeta (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:37 AM Response to Reply #1 |
6. as bush would say.... it's uniquely american.... or he said something similar to the woman |
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haroldweeks (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:03 PM Response to Reply #1 |
92. And no job security or benefits |
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lunatica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:35 AM Response to Original message |
3. He should be grateful he has a job |
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marmar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:36 AM Response to Original message |
4. Never again for me with a 401k......Luckily I got my money out of that mess before the crash. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:40 AM Response to Reply #4 |
7. I never trusted the things when I read about them years ago, |
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dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:16 PM Response to Reply #4 |
35. Me too.. AND I told my younger relatives the whole scam. |
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LondonReign2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #35 |
82. Utterly terrible advice |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #82 |
94. Also if nothing else he/she could open a 401K contribute the minimum to get max match... |
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backwoodsbob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 04:57 PM Response to Reply #94 |
106. yep |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:41 AM Response to Original message |
8. Twenty five years =70K? Didn't use the 401K much at all so it's hardly to blame |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:43 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. No, they don't. |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:53 AM Response to Reply #9 |
13. They don't what? Contribute enough? |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 09:42 PM Response to Reply #13 |
42. Looks like a pretty decent package to me. n/t |
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JBear (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 05:54 PM Response to Reply #9 |
111. Yes, they do...but there is a catch! |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:51 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. do you have any idea what his pay was? or if he recieved regular raises... |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:54 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. See my last reply - |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:56 AM Response to Reply #14 |
15. You sound like a financial adviser |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:00 AM Response to Reply #15 |
16. No - just a reasonably competent investor who's OK at math |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:07 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. You missed the point. They aren't designed to "supplement" Social Security. |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:59 PM Response to Reply #18 |
67. defined benefit plans were unsustainable |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 12:17 PM Response to Reply #67 |
76. More apologetics for the scams, I see |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:36 PM Response to Reply #76 |
83. You have demonstrated you have very little basic knowledge of the subject |
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hfojvt (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 03:46 PM Response to Reply #83 |
101. I was gonna say that social security also pays less than a 401K |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 04:39 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. It's like comparing watermelons to grapes, though |
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backwoodsbob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 05:07 PM Response to Reply #76 |
107. $150k? |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:18 PM Response to Reply #67 |
80. It wasn't just irresponsible companies either |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 04:16 AM Response to Reply #18 |
73. Ermm... no |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 08:01 PM Response to Reply #15 |
115. OMG, you actually think 401ks are a scam?! |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 12:16 PM Response to Reply #14 |
27. you still haven't answered the question(s)- |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:47 AM Response to Original message |
10. "...they were designed to save companies money on pension costs." |
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PassingFair (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:54 PM Response to Reply #10 |
37. This is the truth of the matter. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:49 AM Response to Original message |
11. I like this part of the article: |
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SammyWinstonJack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:01 AM Response to Reply #11 |
17. +1 nt |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:08 AM Response to Original message |
19. My major beef w/ 401K was the reduction in employer cost. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:11 AM Response to Reply #19 |
20. Yep, you nailed it. They're scams for just that reason. |
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CrispyQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:25 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. The YOYOs vs the WITTs. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:03 PM Response to Reply #19 |
46. I don't know where you're getting your figures |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:52 PM Response to Reply #46 |
65. You are comparing apples to thumbtacks. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:52 AM Response to Reply #65 |
70. Your numbers are way off |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:17 AM Response to Reply #70 |
72. See #71 |
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CrispyQ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
22. A few years ago one had to enroll in the 401k plan. |
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HughBeaumont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:30 AM Response to Original message |
24. The Great Risk Shift. Read it. Get Angry. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:36 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. I'll have to take a look at that |
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pansypoo53219 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:41 AM Response to Original message |
26. 401k's are a rip off. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 01:55 PM Response to Reply #26 |
28. Kick for this important article n/t |
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LondonReign2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:47 PM Response to Reply #26 |
84. Incorrect |
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backwoodsbob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 05:21 PM Response to Reply #84 |
108. 100% correct |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 01:58 PM Response to Original message |
29. About six months ago, 60 Minutes had a piece about the |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:46 PM Response to Reply #29 |
36. The victims--that's what they are--profiled in the piece |
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latebloomer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:06 PM Response to Original message |
30. And even employer matching is going out the window |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:07 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. One might as well keep his or her money--if he or she has it--under a matress |
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LondonReign2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:31 PM Response to Reply #31 |
96. Wrong yet again |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:10 PM Response to Reply #30 |
93. I was with several companies which had NO matching of any contributions to our 401k nt |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:08 PM Response to Original message |
32. Converting the 401(k) was nothing but a scheme to steal American pensions and retirement |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:09 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. +1 |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
34. The 401K is a scam designed to channel money into the Wall Street Casino. |
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SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 04:44 PM Response to Original message |
38. It was a clever way to funnel wads of untouchable (by the employees) cash |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 08:51 PM Response to Reply #38 |
39. 401K are required by law to offer both Treasury fund and corporate bond fund. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 09:28 PM Response to Original message |
40. 401(k) are a win-win for employers and employees |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 09:41 PM Response to Reply #40 |
41. Oh, please |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 09:44 PM Response to Reply #41 |
43. Nice retort |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 09:47 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. They're NOT a good deal |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:10 PM Response to Reply #45 |
48. Can you provide a source for that claim? |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:23 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. Some are, some aren't |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:45 PM Response to Reply #51 |
55. Actually, the smaller the business, the less likely they will offer a 401(K)... |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:59 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. I'm not saying they are more likely to offer a 401(k) period |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:39 PM Response to Reply #48 |
52. They are. |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:56 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. Not all. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:59 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. It isn't a true pension unless it is federally insured |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:36 PM Response to Reply #59 |
61. I'm not handing you any garbage whatsoever. I merely asked you a question.(edited) |
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LondonReign2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:00 PM Response to Reply #61 |
90. That is correct HERETIC |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 12:00 AM Response to Reply #59 |
68. Only if you want to make up your own definitions |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:18 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. There's an uproar because people made bad gambles and lost |
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LondonReign2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:56 PM Response to Reply #45 |
88. You are arguing a useless point |
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tammywammy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 09:46 PM Response to Reply #40 |
44. And haven't we been seeing what happens when the govt takes over your pension |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:19 PM Response to Reply #44 |
50. If that |
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ldf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:04 PM Response to Reply #40 |
47. an employee was virtually tied to a company until they retired |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:43 PM Response to Reply #47 |
53. Not if you have a 401(k) |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:42 PM Response to Reply #40 |
62. They would be better is companies contributed a fair amount to them. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:48 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. 401(k)s were NOT designed, repeat NOT designed |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:58 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. I already showed you it is more than possible. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:40 AM Response to Reply #66 |
69. I'd still like to know who sets aside 15% for a pension plan |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:11 AM Response to Reply #69 |
71. 5% contribution hardly? |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 11:33 AM Response to Reply #71 |
74. Sorry, I can't agree with much of what you wrote |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #74 |
87. No way it costs 7%. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 04:22 PM Response to Reply #87 |
104. Way |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 06:32 PM Response to Reply #104 |
113. We are both simpifying but I enjoy the subject. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 08:49 PM Response to Reply #113 |
116. Employers do get rid of risk, but that was the whole point |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 11:57 AM Response to Reply #71 |
75. Watch the Frontline documentary, and then you will understand |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. Hogwash |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:27 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. Some people are good at investing but most folks |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:49 PM Response to Reply #81 |
85. I'm thinking your world went the way of the dinosaur quite some time ago |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #85 |
95. Well my point wasn't whether the ship sailed or not. I happen to agree |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 03:15 PM Response to Reply #95 |
99. Then we are even |
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LondonReign2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:38 PM Response to Reply #81 |
97. I think you are correct ipaint |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 03:46 PM Response to Reply #97 |
100. The thing is at least half this country doesn't make enough to save anything. |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:58 PM Response to Reply #75 |
89. Fuzzy math? This is my retirement that I am saving for. |
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backwoodsbob (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 05:39 PM Response to Reply #75 |
109. you're just wrong |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 05:53 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. Well most companies provide 3% in a match. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:44 PM Response to Original message |
54. Frontline did a piece on 401k's |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 10:48 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Thank you for that link. |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:44 PM Response to Reply #56 |
63. Watching this, |
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tonysam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-25-09 11:12 PM Response to Original message |
60. Article from April about the auto industry and PBGC |
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taught_me_patience (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 12:32 PM Response to Original message |
77. 401k's are great |
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closeupready (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 01:52 PM Response to Reply #77 |
86. I've had everything in my 401(k) in money market, and haven't lost a dime. |
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closeupready (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 12:42 PM Response to Original message |
78. Wait a minute - he gets $406/month, has a $70k retirement account, and social security. |
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haroldweeks (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:02 PM Response to Original message |
91. Small business owners often cheat |
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Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 02:46 PM Response to Original message |
98. Absolute horseshit |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 03:54 PM Response to Reply #98 |
102. It doesn't work. |
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NeedleCast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 04:14 PM Response to Original message |
103. My 401(k) (acutally a 403(b)) is great |
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Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 06:10 PM Response to Reply #103 |
112. Another good employer. |
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Rabrrrrrr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Oct-26-09 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
114. Yeah, because we can so TOTALLY trust companies not to fuck up the pension, or go bankrupt. |
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