Should people wearing the Psalm 109:8 stuff be reported to Secret Service?

[goodboy]

Poll question: Should people wearing the Psalm 109:8 stuff be reported to Secret Service?

First there was the facebook poll.

Now this?

May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership.
May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.

May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven from their ruined homes.

May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.

May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children.

May his descendants be cut off, their names blotted out from the next generation.

May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord; may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.

May their sins always remain before the Lord, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

[T Wolf]

1. Yes. If I had walked around with a shirt that said, "I want Bush DEAD" I would certainly have been

"detained for questioning."

Whether they will be found guilty of a crime is another matter.

But the threat is real and should be dealt with.

[goodboy]

2. You wouldn't have even been allowed near the president. Remember "free speech zones"

These idiots are calling for the death of an American President. And they're bringing guns to his events.

[metalbot]

21. There's a difference, and you know it

Nobody is going to be arrested or even investigated for wearing a "Pray for Obama" T-shirt that references a Psalm verse that says "May his days be few, may another take his place of leadership". It's clearly protected speech, even if the context around it is nasty.

What is going to happen is that because of all of the publicity this is getting, there will be a huge run on T-shirts, coffee mugs, and bumper stickers by people who read that verse and think it's cute. There will literally be millions of these out there. The secret service currently deals with about 30 threats per day, or ~10k per year. If this were a legitimate threat, they'd need to start investigating millions of people. At most what will happen is that they'll compile a list of people, and nothing will be done about it. If nothing's going to be done about it, why make the list? Will we make a different list for the next president when the same shirts appear?

I seriously think that if someone had thought this up during the Bush administration that many people here would be delighted at how clever it was.

[mmonk]

3. Intent.

Seems pretty clear what the message is.

[goodboy]

5. Just takes one wacko that thinks god is telling them to do this. (nt)

[mmonk]

31. Yes and I'm sure there are more.

[treestar]

4. Yes.

that's just evil.

[BOSSHOG]

6. Pro life christians praying that a human being be killed

and yet are dumbfounded at the suggestion of hypocrisy.

Conservative values are the number one threat to our constitutional liberties.

[goodboy]

9. They're also pro-war, pro-death penalty, they're pro-pollution, there isn't

much life, other than unborn human life that works as a political pawn.

[rebel with a cause]

7. I voted unsure...

but if I saw someone wearing this shirt I would sure want to report them to someone. But around here there would not be anything done. Not the same when the bushy was in the WH. No one could wear shirts that demeaned him.

God! I don't want to die here! I guess I probably will, but I sure don't want to. I don't want my daughter to be left trapped here either. Don't know if there is anywhere different in this country. :shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. They've probably already seen it

[TwilightGardener]

10. No. Secret Service shouldn't be hassled and bothered with this--

stupid and over-the-top as it is. I want them to be free to respond to REAL threats.

[goodboy]

12. I read somewhere that they receive more than 30 threats per day.

I don't want them to be overwhelmed by the wackos, but it only takes one of these idiots to cross over from delusional zealot to assassin. You know, the whole "onward christian soldiers"

[demmiblue]

11. Unsure. I am guessing a good portion of these types have no idea of the full passage...

they just want to jump on the Christian bandwagon. As long as it says 'Psalm', then it is good enough for them.

[newspeak]

13. I voted unsure

because what was discussed on another thread about Psalm 109. It is David's lament--what some were saying about David. So, I think I'd go up to someone wearing the shirt and tell them if they agreed with David's lament? If they believed that David is like Obama? Or are they like the people David was lamenting about? Then, watch them scratch their heads in confusion.

[Kaleva]

14. No. The ones you have to worry about don't advertise.

[Egnever]

49. Often they do

the shooter at the gym recently had a website where he talked about his plan quite often. I am sure there are many examples of others.

Having said that I think reporting people to the secret service over a tshirt is a little over the top. They have plenty to do already.

[cali]

15. Yes???!!! Are you lot all fucking insane???

[47of74]

16. Yes

The government needs to start cracking down on these people. People need to see that is unacceptable to make threats - even in code - that our laws have a purpose and those who break these laws will be held to account for their misdeeds.

[librechik]

17. Absolutely. SOMETHING has to make these morons think twice

before they make empty threats

[yawnmaster]

18. It would be a waste of secret service time. you report all these and it makes ...

it harder to find a real threat.

[Tesha]

22. Why don't we let the Secret Service decide what constitutes a waste of their time, ehh?

Personally, I think any threat of violence against
our President, implied or explicit, should be considered.
Maybe they'll end up on a watch list.

Tesha

[yawnmaster]

34. oh please....

how about imagined threats... lets let them decide.
how about indirect, implied threats...lets let them decide.
how about unintended threats?!! lets let them decide.
inundating the Secret Service with ridiculous messages would cause an unintended threat, a decrease in the protection of the President...
you don't think so? let them decide...
In other words, better inform them of this message thread...and any thread talking about this thread.

[Tesha]

42. Let me blunt about this.

For eight years, these assholes trampled all over our constitutional rights.
We weren't willingly let within half a mile of their demigod. We were told
that any opposition to their "president" was unpatriotic. The vaguest threat
was reported to the Secret Service and actively investigated.

Now, these same assholes not only aren't recognizing the legitimacy of a
president who was ACTUALLY ELECTED, they are threatening his life
(whether or not we consider this pissant bumper sticker to be a threat,
there have been serious, actionable threats) and people are routinely
coming to his events armed.

So not only do I want to see all threats investigates, I'm also more-than-
willing to see these folks get a little education in exactly how we were
treated by "their" president.

Tesha

[yawnmaster]

43. so to settle your vendetta you are willing to jeopardize the President,

by using his Secret Service for frivolous searches into imagined threats.
In fact, according to your previous logic, you should be the one investigated,
since pushing to have the Secret Service inundated with these claims, would in fact, harm the security of the President.
You are making it harder to find the real threats.

[Tesha]

44. There are a lot of Secret Service agents. Don't you want to see them employed? (NT)

[yawnmaster]

45. really? how many are there? what is "a lot"? eom

[Blue For You]

19. No. Why bother the SS with this abrahamic silliness?

If anything, the verse should be applied to abraham.

[Graybeard]

20. Go after the companies that use U.S.Mail to sell the stuff.

It is against Federal law to use the U.S. Mail to distribute material that threatens the life of the President.

[Capn Sunshine]

23. Here's what 109:8 says, you kneejerks

May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership.

That's IT.

The bible thumpers specified 109.8, NOT "Psalm 109" in its entirety.
Entirely too much is being made of this, and it makes all of us look ridiculous.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. Thank you.

[Capn Sunshine]

28. You're welcome Dave

sometimes the hysteria here is like a contagion

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

32. I sat next to a guy on an airplane a few days ago.

He was reading Going Rogue. I asked him how it was. He said there had been so much talk about it, he decided to see what it was all about. He said waht he had read so far was very good. People don't seem to realize the implications of their actions however unintended.

[jonnyblitz]

29. now people are finding "offensive" stuff on zazzle after they all

moved their "stores" to there from cafe press. :crazy:

[MattBaggins]

35. Just stop with that "just the one tiny line" bullshit

It's a big steaming pile of pure unadulterated bullshit.

Only Christians whackadoodles believe in that crap that you can pull out one line and ignore what comes before and after.

Just stop trying to piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Jesus H Christ on a trailer hitch; when you read the line, the first thing that goes through a rational persons mind is "what exactly does "let his days be few" mean"? A person schooled in even the most rudimentary skills of reasoning will go to the source to look for context. What one finds is a damn death curse.

The only people who will look stupid and petty are the morons that would wear it or put it on their car. Let the idiots have it. Let Cafe Press sell it. I don't give a damn but stop trying to claim the fracking thing isn't about death. You really think we are that stupid?

[ThoughtCriminal]

36. Next Line..

9 May his children become fatherless, and his wife a widow.

And it gets worse from there.

Do you really think that escapes the attention of the religious right Bible thumpers that the message that is target market for this trash?

[rpannier]

51. It's irrelevant since they're not using it

If someone from our side had used that psalm passage during the DUH-bya years people here would have interpreted it as a single passage

[ThoughtCriminal]

52. Oh, like they don't know it's there

and don't read it. Excluding it is taking the verse out of context.

These hypotheticals about "Somebody from our side" are just insulting.

[grace0418]

38. Do you HONESTLY believe "that's it"? Do you HONESTLY believe that people who spend

hours and hours in Bible study don't know EXACTLY what the next line says? Good grief.

[MattBaggins]

41. Not just the experts but any sane person that sees it?

If you see psalm 109:8, and wonder what it means, you will have to go to the source and read it. Only an idiot it going to see just the line in question and not wonder what the whole thing means.

Now I agree that it is really counter productive to try and ban this and get so worked up but people really need to quit trying to say this thing isn't a death curse. Really what kind of stupid is needed to just blindly ignore what comes before and after an ambiguous line? Maybe after 20 years of being an atheist I have forgotten what it takes to believe in a religion.

If you see someone with such a T-shirt just say "hey nice shirt... asshole" and walk away. Or you could just let it go and ignore them. What ever works.

[vadawg]

39. +1 yup it seems to reference just the one part of the psalm,

dosent seem like a threat that would need to be investigated unless the wearer showed other signs...

[Balbus]

40. We got some nice faux outrage going on and you're trying to disrupt it.

[rpannier]

50. Good Catch on your part

Thanks for your looking into what it said rather than goose step down the road with the crowd

[Naturyl]

53. Read the very next verse.

As I recall, it's something about his children being fatherless and his wife a widow.

How would that happen? Only one way I know of...

[Bolo Boffin]

56. I totally and respectfully disagree.

If bible thumpers are too idiotic to read their own bible and not realize the context of that verse, then anyone misunderstanding them to be calling for the President's death is fully justified in calling them out on it. Pisspoor communication is their problem in this case.

Not that it does much good. Pointing out what the verse meant to a cousin in Mississippi who'd posted it for a laugh got me nothing but grief. It was my fault that I didn't understand she was talking about something that the verse clearly means, and I was the ignorant one who deserved our Muslim president if I liked him so much.

I mean, you can't argue with stupid that thick.

ETA: That said, I don't think every incident should be reported to the Secret Service. You could just be dealing with stupid people waving a chainsaw around, calling it a butter knife.

[timtom]

58. Thanks, Cap'n.

I'm reading this thread later in the day, so my response is late.

[Contrary1]

24. Most of the morans have no clue as to what they are promoting...

Should all the clueless be reported? No, it will take time and resources from the even bigger morans who do know.

[G_j]

25. NO, they have far more important things to do nt

[comrade snarky]

27. Why not ask them?

Their phone number isn't secret.

http://www.secretservice.gov/contact.shtml

I don't have time right now so if someone else wants to give them a ring and ask, the public affairs number is 202-406-5708 and an email link is on the website above.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. This stuff from zazzle is far worse.

http://bubbleidiots.blogspot.com/2009/11/more-right-wing-ignorance-threats.html

[DU GrovelBot]

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[lynne]

37. Sure! The Secret Service has nothing better to do -

- than run down numerous reports of "a fat dude wearing a red shirt and plaid pants on Oak Street wearing a Psalm 109 button". I'm sure they'd appreciate the exercise.

[Raine]

46. Yes, what if you wore a shirt saying you hope Laura becomes a widow

and Barbara and Jana become orphans ... you better believe the FBI and SS would show up at your door!

[gleaner]

47. I chose yes ...

It is a threat. It is illegal to threaten the president. They are so big on the "rule of law," they should be enjoying some of it in some of their rustic jails.

[Egnever]

48. Maybe if you know more about them

but just based on a shirt no.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. Bible "Book Chapter:Verse" references are usually given as a STARTING POINT FOR READING.

Not to mean ONLY that one verse, floating in the air.

Taking notice of the following verse is ENTIRELY relevant.

[Bolo Boffin]

57. Yes, it's not like the verse is printed on the shirts and other sale items.

You have to go to the Bible to read the actual verse. The context is inescapable.

[Prism]

55. Some people really need to take a break from internet politics

Clogging the Secret Service with frivolous reports to pursue an internet vendetta does not seem to be the wisest use of resources of an agency that should be devoted to ferreting out viable, credible threats that must be eliminated at the earliest stages.

People really need to step away from blogs and message boards, take a breath, and realize that internet jack-assery is oftentimes mere internet jack-assery.

As for "Of course Christians know the next line!"

Not in my experience as a gay man. The religious right, if anything, is marvelously talented at ignoring context and entire passages of scripture in favor of that one line or phrase that neatly echoes what they already believed or dearly wish to be true. That evangelicals have an almost preternatural ability to know exactly what is in every part of the Bible is largely a caricatured myth. Trust me, I've argued the Bible over homosexuality for a long time now. Most people I debate have no idea whatsoever what is in that book.