My simple thoughts on War

[AllentownJake]

War should always be the last tool in a foreign relations tool kit. War is a battle for survival. War is not noble, heroic, or civilized in anyway.

When you commit a nation to war you have to go all in. It is not a poker bet you can limp in on. You must commit your entire nations resources economically, diplomatically, and militarily to defeating the threat either by forcing it to surrender or terminating it's existence.

Here are my simple beliefs.

1) Other nations civil wars. Being involved in a civil war inside a nation is a disaster. Of all wars, civil wars tend to be the most brutal and barbaric. Civil wars are totally political wars. There is no reason in a civil war. It is a failure of a people to come to terms or agreement on how they should be governed. These wars are not about adding territory or resources or containing or defeating a threat. They are ideological in nature.

2) Everyone goes. In World War II a Roosevelt fell on the beaches of Normandy, a Kennedy was killed in a bombing run over the English channel, a Bush was forced to parachute from his fighter and nearly did not survive the war.

3) All resources are committed. The world literally stops at home till the threat is destroyed. If you do not believe a threat is big enough to stop all domestic life and move it into a war effort. The war is not worth it.

If you aren't willing to make a full sacrifice in the name of ending the threat, than threat is probably not one the requires significant military attention.

[eridani]

1. And the top tax rate is 90% or more n/t

[AllentownJake]

2. When I say all of the nations resources

I mean all of the nations resources.

[DemReadingDU]

11. Exactly

Very few of us have any involvement in this conflict. It is war to the military, but not much to the rest of us. And who benefits...the private contractors, big corporations. There are lots better ways of spending our tax money than escalating the conflict in Afghanistan.

[madokie]

3. War is an admission of failure

Only with diplomacy do you win

[AllentownJake]

4. Sometimes you cannot win with diplomacy

in those conditions if there is a substantial threat to your nation, you obliterate the threat.

[madokie]

5. When you've been invaded yes

or about to be invaded

add: but thats not war that's protection

[AllentownJake]

6. Still war

There are conditions like the one that existed in World War II where there is an enemy that is a threat to humanity itself.

[madokie]

7. I think we're pretty much on the same page on this

[Ineeda]

8. Spot on

Your #2 - no 5x deferments, no family influence to avoid serving. Your #3 - during WWII everyone sacrificed (well, maybe not the uber-rich) but rationing of everything was readily accepted. No sugar, gasoline, steel, car tires, nylon (or silk) stockings, meat, etc. etc. without ration tickets. Everything was earmarked for the war effort and ordinary Americans were proud to sacrifice it all for the GI's. In addition, anyone who dared say anything like Cheney is spewing would be called a traitor, loudly and rightfully. One major difference today is that no one would sacrifice anything at all, no matter whether a war is justified or not, even if meant the difference between life and death for those who courageously volunteer to be in harm's way.

[MindPilot]

9. I was waiting for that last night and it never came.

"...make no mistake, the threat from al Qaeda is very real and has grown significantly in the past few months. Therefore, I call on every American..."

But no, just more of the same warmed over platitudes--9/11--coalitions, violent extremist, vague threats, following them wherever they go, kill, enemies, homeland.

[AllentownJake]

10. Yep

and that is how I knew what he was saying was absolute bullshit.

[DemReadingDU]

12. Who got to Obama? Lobbyists? Big corporations? Wall Street?

Escalation in Afghanistan is a political move to benefit somebody, but not we the people.

[AllentownJake]

13. You act like he wasn't part of the system to begin with. nt.

[DemReadingDU]

14. That's my point. 'We' didn't elect Obama

Wall Street, big corporations, money, elected Obama. He is fulfilling their wishes.

[The_Commonist]

15. 4) Congress needs to make a declaration...

...as per the Constitution.

[L0oniX]

16. Error: You've already recommended that thread. K & R

[Toots]

17. Real wars usually have more than three hundred casualties a year though

This is really nothing more than a very advanced training mission. We have to support our troops no matter where they are. We have to provide them with food and clothing whether they are in Texas or Afghanistan. No matter where they train they use up supplies. Three hundred American soldiers died in Afghanistan last year, about the same as traffic fatalities in Los Angeles. It really is not all that much of a big whoop and will be a huge feather in the Democrats hat if we can successfully clean up the Republican messes they created.. I will be willing to bet anyone here that by 2012 we will be singing the praises of Obama and the Democrats...

[AllentownJake]

18. Kick