Democrats, NRA team up on gun bill (mental illness background checks)

[madville]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON – House Democratic leaders are working with the National Rifle Association to bolster laws blocking mentally ill people from buying guns.

Lacking support to enact strong new gun measures even after the Virginia Tech shootings, Democrats are instead resurrecting legislation, which has drawn broad bipartisan support and NRA backing, that would improve the national background-check system.
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Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., a strong NRA ally who has been a leading opponent of most gun-control legislation, is negotiating with the group on the background-check bill.
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Rep. McCarthy, D-NY, said the measure was the best the Democratic-controlled Congress could do even in the wake of the deadly shooting rampage Monday in which a disturbed gunman killed 32 and then himself.
"We're not going to do anything more on guns – it's just not going to happen. This is a pro-gun Congress," said Ms. McCarthy.





Read more: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/politics/national/stories/042107dnnatguns.38107a3.html

[villager]

1. if your business involves making death easier ---guns, bombs, missiles, etc.

It sure becomes easy to buy and sell congress critters.

[madville]

2. The best course of action

I think this is the correct way to approach something that may actually make a difference. If someone is determined metally unstable by a court of law they shouldn't be allowed to purchase/own firearms. This will do more towards preventing another terrible event than trying to ban something at this point, looks like it has broad support and will likely pass.

[jody]

6. That's already the law, 18 USC 922. n/t

[madville]

8. Yes but many states don't comply with

Many states do not comply with it and I some even have state laws preventing them from complying with such a law. I think this current bill will provide the funding required to expand the background check system and to press that states to comply with federal law instead of their own when it comes to mental illness and firearms.

[jody]

11. I agree re compliance. IMO congress should fund DOJ for aggressive enforcement of existing fed laws.

[dave420]

17. Difference?

The only difference is the person in question now buys a gun from an unlicensed or crooked gun dealer. People will still die.

[Somawas]

3. obviously won't work, keeping weapons out of the hand of the mentally

ill. Someone follows Bush around with the football.

[brentspeak]

4. Better than nothing, I suppose

[Rose Siding]

12. Agreed, but what we'll probably get are gov't lists of those who seek therapy for anything

We already know they track our RXs.

[Crazy Dave]

5. First the make the laws and everybody is happy...

...then they make the legal loopholes so not to make the others unhappy. Then the laws are loosely enforced and open to different interpretations.

Fact: More people this year in America will die from lack of adequate health care and tens of thousands of people will be killed in Iraq than will be killed with handguns for the next ten - twenty years.

[formercia]

14. That way, Junior can engage in selective enforcement

loopholes only apply if you can afford a good attorney. The poor and misrepresented will continue to go to prison or lose their ability to own firearms.

[iverglas]

30. actually

Fact: More people this year in America will die from lack of adequate health care ...

Nobody dies from lack of adequate health care; people die from diseases and injuries for which they did not receive adequate health care.

On the other hand, people do die of gunshot wounds; in most cases, healthcare would not have prevented the death.

There really is a difference. And health care and firearms control really are not mutually exclusive. Viz. Canada, the UK, Europe, Australia, New Zealand ... one might say "the rest of the world", if one were given to generalizing.

... and tens of thousands of people will be killed in Iraq than will be killed with handguns for the next ten - twenty years.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html
Handgun homicides in the US:
2000..2001..2002..2003..2004
6,778 6,931 7,294 7,745 7,265

That's over 36,000 in four years. Piddling. The war in Iraq will end. The handgun homicides in the US will not.

Yes, there will be other wars. There will also be deaths from malaria and measles. Shall we keep fighting the pointless wars, just because some people are going to die of malaria and measles?

[jody]

7. That's in contrast to Rep. Kucinich who wants to ban all handguns. n/t

[Crazy Dave]

10. Sure, let's put handgun sales on the black market ...

...just like drugs. That will make America a lot safer. Once the price of illegal guns goes up the crooks get even more rich and dangerous. Local gangs can now get into the illegal arms trade plus sell meth and crack to purchase more lethal inventory.

[dave420]

18. Maybe

if guns are more expensive, less people will be able to afford them? Kind of like Chris Rock's $5,000-bullet scheme. If they're made illegal, the handguns won't stay on the black-market forever, as each siezed gun will be taken out of circulation. At the moment, each illegal firearm siezed is replaced by stealing a new one from a happy NRA owner, who in turn just goes and gets a new one from his local licensed dealer. Stop people from being able to buy them from gun dealers all over the country, and the number of guns in criminals' hands falls. Unless criminals can summon guns out of thin air, or the customs guys let in massive shipments, the number has to fall. Then there's the argument about how people will have to defend themselves from gun-wielding criminals, but then surely that's what the police are for.

Civilized != armed.

[Crazy Dave]

23. Prohibition didn't work....

....people could still buy liquor and drank, mind altering drugs have been illegal yet people who want them can still get them. People who think making guns illegal will solve all or most of the problems are only believing in fairy tales.

[depakid]

35. Gee, gun control measures sure worked in Australia

and many other Western Countries, though Australian's example is the most relevant, because they chose to change their gun culture. And they did. Successfully.

The only fairy tales I see in many of these threads involve the magical thinking and denial embodied in "American exceptionalism."

[Crazy Dave]

36. I haven't lived in Australia but I know this society all too well

It's a violent society with little or no respect for the lives of others plus the fact that certain politicians already want to use the VT shootings for their political gain proves it. Even the democratic nominee in '04 made a publicity stunt and photo opt. out of a hunting trip to try and pander to the bubba voters shows that guns aren't going anywhere. Just being a realist instead of being in denial.

[depakid]

37. Oh, I'm not in denial... I know this society, too

Responsible gun control is politically anathema, practically infeasible and people's beliefs are so emotionally charged and culturally reinforced that nothing is going to change them.

As a result, America has willingly condemned itself to repeated massacres and senseless everyday gun violence- (not to mention harsh and retributive criminal laws that have led to the largest and most expensive penal system in the world- both in terms of raw numbers of people imprisoned- and incarceration rates per capita).

Americans find this an acceptable price to impose on their society.

My point was other nations beg to differ, and have gotten very good results....

see, e.g.: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-deaths-in-rapid-decline-since-buyback/2006/12/13/1165685752421.html

[Crazy Dave]

38. Other nations aren't the US

We can't even learn the metric system.

[piedmont]

27. You forget that guns and ammunition don't have to be made in large factories.

They can be made in small, easily concealed workshops with ordinary tools and materials-- just like drugs, just like alcohol. Guns and ammo acquired through the black market might be more expensive than they're currently sold through legal channels, but not much.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

34. You seem to think that US Customs is effective

They can't keep drugs out, so how would they keep guns out? No dog can sniff out an un-fired or well-cleaned gun. They smell like drill presses and washing machines, just steel and oil.

Without a "fence" around the country, the arms will come in to meet demand. Even with a fence.

And no, the police are not in the business of defending people from criminals. They're in the business of gathering evidence and arresting people AFTER the fact. Very rarely do they stop a crime.

[bluerum]

13. Hi Jody. Schilling for the gun lobby over here now? Question -

Absent banning guns, then what revisions or additions do you propose to current fed laws that would make them more effective in reducing crime?

26 USC 5861, prohibited acts, machine guns, destructive devices, and certain other firearms

18 USC 922,unlawful acts, firearms

Go for it.

[jody]

28. No, I'm an activist for the Democratic Party and we support the Second Amendment.

By the way, copycatting is the best form of flattery. Thanks for your complement! :hi:

[formercia]

15. and this is why he will never become President.

gun control is part of the reich-wing agenda but they won't say so in public. They leave that to well-meaning Democrats and GOP shills to put the onus on anyone but themselves.

Wise-up people. The Dems need the gun owners in order to win and making statements like that is a sure way to kill one's chances of being nominated, let alone elected.

Don't get me wrong, for I have nothing against Dennis.

[jody]

29. Thats why our Democratic Party Platform says we support the Second Amendment. n/t

[aikoaiko]

22. Does Kucinich really want to ban all handguns? Horrible.

I never really considered him much, either positively or negatively, but banning handguns is a deal breaker.

[jody]

31. Link to congressional record of Kucinich's remarks

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=H3440&dbname=2007_record

QUOTE

A THREE-POINT PLAN FOR RESCUING THE NATION FROM VIOLENCE

(Mr. KUCINICH asked and was given permission to address the House for 1 minute and to revise and extend his remarks.)

Mr. KUCINICH. Mr. Speaker, in the aftermath of the tragedy at Blacksburg, Virginia, it is becoming painfully obvious that the easy availability of handguns constitutes a growing national crisis of public health and safety, one that calls for a powerful, wide-ranging response from this Congress.

I am urging Members to support H.R. 676, the Conyers-Kucinich bill, which establishes a universal, not-for-profit health care system, which provides full and comprehensive mental health care.

Second, support H.R. 808, a bill establishing a Department of Peace and Nonviolence, which directly addresses the issues of domestic violence, gang violence, and violence in the schools which is reflected in our current homicide rates.

And third, the 33 deaths at Blacksburg constitute a national tragedy. So, too, does the fact that an average of 32 people each and every day in the United States perish in handgun related incidents. Accordingly, I am drafting a bill to ban the purchase, sale, transfer or possession of handguns by civilians. A gun buy-back provision will be provided in the bill.

It’s time for us to rescue this Nation from the violence which is engulfing it, and I have just articulated a threepoint plan to do so.

UNQUOTE

[aikoaiko]

33. oy, I didn't think any Democrat could be so politically clumsy.

let alone propose something so obviously unconstitutional.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

9. With the amount

of drugs the Pharms sell for depression it seems as though nearly everyone could be determined "Mentally Unstable."
The state of Virginia failed in an already enforceable policy.

[ingac70]

16. Good. I'm tired of Republican control of this country because of this issue...

If you want dozens more Dubyas in our future, keep supporting tighter gun restrictions for stand up citizens!

[flamin lib]

19. About damn time! Who better to craft legislation than the people

who know the responsibilities that go along with gun ownership. The NRA needs to pull it's head out and look around. If they don't get involved in the process laws will be written by people who don't have a clue.

Point: Ban assault weapons. BS! You can't define a product for banning. Define it too broadly and things you don't intend will be banned. Define it too narrowly and a simple change makes it legal.

There are holes that need to be plugged (pun intended). They include but aren't limited to:

Timely updating of the national database for background checks. Cho was diagnosed as mentally ill and current law precludes his buying a gun but the database was not updated.

Gun show and person to person sales without a background check. In Texas I can buy from the newspaper want ads and the seller won't even know my name.

Purchase records are not uploaded to the national database. All those forms you fill out are stored at the point of purchase and turned over to the national database only if the store goes out of business.

Finally, firearms regulation must be federal, not state. Everybody needs to sing off the same song sheet. Washington DC has the strictest gun laws in the US but guns from Utah, Texas and Virginia stream into the District because it's just as profitable as dealing drugs.

It can be done, it needs to be done and there is nobody better suited to understanding the mentality of gun ownership than people who responsibly own them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. You know I somehow doubt that there isn't support

for strong legislation...

But that's just me

[aikoaiko]

21. Like most gun owners, I'm for effective background checks.

But for the life of me, I can't figure out why its called NICS when the full name is National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

I whole heartedly support more effective data bases preventing violent criminals and the mentally unstable as long as due process is involved before having a name submitted to the list.

[Madspirit]

24. Idea!!

Now let's make it where everyone who wants to buy a gun has to take a full battery of psychologicals. They take about three days. Then NO ONE will ever be able to buy a gun again. *snort*
Lee

[piedmont]

25. Great news. Get rid of the "Dems will take your guns" talking point. nt

[pacalo]

26. That will be good for those who have been diagnosed with mental illness.

The legislation may pacify the current outrage about the VA tragedy & make the NRA & Congress feel that they've done something that will solve the problem, but tragedies like this will continue until the subject of proper, adequate medical care for the mentally ill is addressed.

Guns aren't the problem! It's a society problem, where the first item on the list of priority is taking better care of the mentally ill.

[Solly Mack]

32. hands clamped firmly over mouth...

(Yes, I'm typing with my feet)

I would have thought (silly me) that such was already a standard practice...isn't it?