So...ummm...when are we going to actually go UNDERGROUND again?

[Horse with no Name]

Just saying....this place has been mainstream for awhile--it is good to see the koolaid wearing off of some of the folks.
I've got MY shovel--who else has theirs?
It is TIME to hold these fuckers to the fire. DEMAND what they promised.
We don't have to march in lockstep but we have an obligation to INSIST that our money and time were well spent and not squandered.

[cali]

1. hahahahaha. DU is not mainstream. It is to the left of most dems.

[derby378]

2. And your problem with that is...?

Look, if there's no pressure from the left, the Democrats on the Hill won't have the impetus to change their ways.

[AndyA]

6. I can only imagine what Ignored posted.

You are very correct that if there is no pressure on Dems from the left, there will be no motivation for anyone to do anything differently. And a move more to the center or the right sure isn't the answer.

[MineralMan]

17. But you don't have to imagine. There is a solution.

[Vincardog]

3. Where would you want it to be?

[cali]

4. pretty much wherever it's participants take it within the

parameters of the rules for discussion. For example, I would not want people opposed to marriage equality posting here.

[Nikki Stone1]

5. You know, if you had used the term "kool aid" during the primaries, you would have been banned

I saw people who were.

Of course, now that TPTB have their servant in, it no longer matters, I guess.

[Horse with no Name]

8. I think my pet term was "Pied Piper"

I also used "lemmings".
In both cases--being proven correct.
Sadly, I was hoping I would be wrong.

[Nikki Stone1]

18. I know. No one wanted this.

:(

[TreasonousBastard]

7. OK, what do you propose we do? Precisely what can I do to...

hold Ben Nelson's feet to the fire?

[Jamastiene]

16. Write, email, or call anyone and everyone in the House or Senate.

same with the White House.

They don't even need to be your own senators or congressmen, but send as many as you can a message anyhow.

Even if your congresscritter is that dirty minded creepy Nelson guy from Nebraska who thinks entirely too much about my uterus for my comfort level, still send him a message.

The point is that they WILL be hearing from the Republicans to scrap it altogether or make the abortion language even creepier.

They need to hear from us too or they'll think everyone is ok with this bill without fixing it.

[asdjrocky]

9. It's the system now.

Faces change, but the song remains. I remember feeling very disillusioned in 93 and 94, but I came back in 96. Not this time my friend.

I work on a local level. I'll organize my neighborhood, but the Dems have lost me on a national and state level. Perhaps if I lived in a state where the state party was more responsive to the peoples needs I might feel differently, but I live in the Kingdom of California, where they come for our money and our movie stars, but care little for our needs.

[Goldstein1984]

10. You're correct. "Underground" doesn't really apply to most of

what I've seen posted in my short time here.

The discussions are interesting when they don't disintegrate into name-calling, but hardly "underground."

Of course, it wouldn't be very wise for a real underground movement to document every word in journals the whole world can read.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. I guess it's been a while since we did our "Launch Project X" threads. :^P

[dmallind]

11. ...about the same time many here will be Democratic...

...instead of DSA and Green agitators as they are now.

[Horse with no Name]

13. So you call "anyone" who dares think outside the party lines

(which are being redistricted as we speak) a "green agitator" or "DSA"?
Good to know. You must be DLC.

[dmallind]

14. Pot meet kettle. You know I assume the meaning of the word "many"? NT

[kickysnana]

12. I just called both my Senators and begged them to vote No. n/t

[starroute]

15. Oh, I was hoping you meant *really* underground

The simple truth is that our democracy is broken. We're never going to get out of the current system what we want and need.

And railing against Obama isn't the answer either. He's probably as good as we could have hoped for in these dysfunctional times, and maybe a bit better, but he's clearly not going to fix any of the underlying problems.

You remember Woody Guthrie's guitar with the inscription "This machine kills fascists"? Well, the US government is now a machine that protects and enables fascists -- or whatever they're calling themselves these days -- and no matter who you put in charge, it's going to keep doing that as its primary mission.

What we need here is something like a cash for clunkers program, -- but unfortunately you can't take your old clunker of a government down to the lot and trade it in for a shiny new one.

And "revolution" isn't the answer either. Revolutions may have been viable when everything was simpler -- but all they can do nowadays is put new people in charge of the same old broken machinery.

What I see us as needing is something more like a workaround -- or a million workarounds. What are the essential functions of government? If government is no longer serving those ends, and the corporations are actively subverting them, then what tools do we have for generating alternatives? And how do we keep government from forbidding those alternatives, or the corporations from coopting them, before they can take on real power of their own?

It's not going to be easy to imagine, create, and protect new institutions until they can grow into an entire alternative system -- but it's what I think is going to have to be done. And if DU is too tied to party politics and the electoral cycle to serve as a forum for discussing those kinds of issues, I'd like to see a place that can do it.