Does anyone else have concerns about a database of people declared to be

[RB TexLa]

"a danger to themselves."?


Someone being a danger to themselves is not a police matter. There is no crime in harming or killing yourself.

[Bluerthanblue]

1. i do- i'd also like to know how they will determine this-

some people are "a danger to themself" for a time- and come to believe they no longer desire death.

How many "UNTREATED" 'mentally ill' people are there? Seems to me this is an attempt to punish the people who are being treated.- And a good reason for others not to SEEK assistance.

[undergroundpanther]

8. Here's how Texas Medication Algorithm Project

The President�s Commission also adds that removal of stigma is key to the success of the initiative, but stigma will, in fact, be heightened as the hapless young �patient� moves into the workforce and the nursing home.He will be permanently classified as �at risk� and tracked for a lifetime by government agencies.

Dr. Darrel Regier, director of research at the American Psychiatric Association, has, of course, lauded the President�s initiative.Kevin P. Dwyer, president of the National Association of School Psychologists, and Dr. Graham Emslie, who helped develop the Texas project, are typical defenders of early, mass screening. This �valuable information almost impossible to obtain from any other source�,� Dwyer once complained. True, most adults would see right through such attempts.That is why he worries that the flood of lawsuits from parents over invasive, personal test questions under the cover of academic testing (in Virginia, Arizona, Utah, Pennsylvania, among other states) might result in a negative court ruling that would prompt legislators to nix all psychological surveys in schools.

http://www.beverlye.com/200410131912.html

Tons of links Here
http://www.infocollective.org/mentalhealth.html

Scared yet?
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/01/17/microchips-for-mentally-ill-planned-in-shake-up/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fmain.jhtml%3Bjsessionid%3DI4VMVYL1KGVJBQFIQMFCFGGAVCBQYIV0%3Fxml%3D%2Fnews%2F2007%2F01%2F17%2Fncrime17.xml&frame=true

[Bluerthanblue]

2. edit- double post .............. n/t

[havocmom]

3. I see a lot of potential for abuse.

Like, there are people whose job it is to fill beds in private facilities. They might be more inclined to determine that people without insurance are fine and people WITH insurance more likely to be a threat.

Had one determine I was a threat to myself once, long ago. She started her evaluation of my state by amitting that she had a 3 year old sick with infected ears so she had not had sleep in three nights. She said I seemed fine, UNTIL she took a glance at my coverage. She gets paid to fill beds and wadda know, she decided, after a look at that insurance info, that I was a threat to myself and needed 3 days in the private facility for evaluation.

The shrink was furious - said I was one of the sanest people he had met.

Yeah, I have concerns...

[TahitiNut]

4. How long before it's an emplyment requirement??

Does everyone like the idea of employers getting a psych evaluation of every employee?

The mere fact that many would favor this is enough to send me down to the local gun store.

[undergroundpanther]

7. If you made people in the 60's

piss in a cup for a job there would be hell to pay.I swear people are such sheep they let companies force them to do so much shit in the fear of being poor trhey have just let the corporation own them even on thier off hours.

[AZBlue]

11. If mental illness is a barrier to a job, only a minority of the current workforce would be eligible.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Yes

How do they decide who goes on this list? Will it be just those who have attempted suicide or will they also include anyone on anti-depressants?

[undergroundpanther]

6. Hell yes!

Bush has already been preparing for it.And like usual people think because they ain't declared crazy themselves...
I have been declared crazy subjected to some scary shit in mental hospitals in the name of making be normal...Stuff like isolation for 18 fucking months, drugs in huge doses enough to cause grand mal seizures and I was not even diagnosed right,, cold wet sheet packs,restraints 4 and 5 point,religious bullshit galore,and the most evil in the name of behavior modification,anectine. And I have NO criminal record whatsoever!!!Besides the b mod programs were humiliating stupid and a easy way for staff to torment me by playing mindfuck games over points and vauge definitions of criteria for earning"rewards" Stuff like,anger outburst..WTF is an anger outburst OK? especially under provocation? When staff decided to call it something else and jerk my chain.I was and still am very wary of any'professional'"help" they better PROVE they aren't a psychopath asshole because if they are I will not only not EVER trust them, I will fight back, I will make it very unrewarding to fuck with this cat..
I have been active in the mad rights movements their kind bush hates and fears because it's not authoritarian or about control..
Grassroots client centered bottom up stuff the exact opposite of the way this fucking shitty empire is ordered socially.

Beware Bush has got Tmap and New freedom it passed the fucking spaniels we got for a congress ..Ready to go.Test us for our own good using a fucking algorithm by the drug companies by the regular general doctors not even shrinks..and if your mind clashes with what Bush's buddies call normal you are fucked! There are haldol implants,and microchips and my therapist warned me that the way they could force people on disability to get micro chipped is to deny us benefits and help if we refuse it.This administration is nazi-literally.And they have technology hitler would have died to get his evil grubby suckers on

[Venus Dog]

9. Sounds so similar to the old Soviet Union

What Solzhenitzyn went through - and so many others.

[AZBlue]

10. No. First of all, they already have that database.

They know what prescriptions we get and what doctors we see and our records are up for their viewing if they so choose. The insurance companies are in bed with the government and will give them whatever they want. If you receive public assistance or help from any public program, the records are there too. It's a downside of the information age we live in.

Secondly, as paranoid as the above probably makes me sound, I actually do believe that the info is obtained on a very very limited basis. And, I believe that wanting to purchase a gun is a viable and logical reason to obtain that information. Simply added to the database that's in existence now for background checks for guns would be a simple but necessary thing.

[RB TexLa]

13. But there is no reason for law enforcement to have a database of people

who are a danger to themselves. Not others but themselves. There is no concern for law enforcement regarding someone who might harm or kill themselves.

[AZBlue]

16. Yeah there is - there's a very fine line between danger to themselves and danger to others.

And it's a line that can be crossed in a second.

[piedmont]

12. Yes. Very much.

I'm also afraid of the possibility that this will result in a massive loss of rights for Americans, and a disincentive to seek care. I've heard somewhere around 40% of the population will suffer from mental illness at least once in their lifetime. Many of these events are transient, and should not result in permanent curbing of rights.

[paparush]

14. I used to do Commitment Evaluations for our public mental health agency at our local hosptial.

It was my job, in coordination with the ER doctor, to determine if an individual was a danger to self or others. Sometimes they were, and arrangements were made for either voluntary or involuntary commitment. Sometimes the were not and a safety plan was drawn up and signed, an appointment made for the following day, etc...

Danger to self in April, 2007, does not mean you will be a danger to yourself in August, 2007. I do not know if the database is permanent, but, it should not be. Substance abuse can be treated. Depression can be treated. The effects of schizophrenia can be reduced through properly administered medication (I saw Zyprexa do wonders, literally change people's lives) Spouse, family, job situations can evolve.

Just because a judge orders you to have a psych eval should NOT red-flag you for the rest of your life.

[TahitiNut]

15. "...should NOT red-flag you for the rest of your life."

Well, tell that to a lot of Viet Nam veterans who refused to put it on their resumes - or the ones who did and got strange looks and occasionally even stranger questions when interviewing for a job.

People are funny that way. :shrug: Medical information in the hands of non-professionals is a BAD idea. All we have to do is look at the recent SCOTUS decision to see how idealogues handle medical decisions - by the gross and ignoring the individual's rights.

[LibertyUntoDeath]

17. I have a problem with it, when...

...some guy loses his wife of 30 years, and has a bad night where he thinks about killing himself, so he seeks therapy, and gets a hold of his senses within a few weeks... I don't see why this man should be in any database, or restricted from buying a gun, or what have you, once he's recovered.

Databases are illegal search, with delayed seizure.