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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:26 AM
Original message
Americans United says Louisiana may slant education toward creationism.
Apparently there has been lobbying by the religious right, and it appears the powers that be might be caving in.

Americans United Warns Louisiana Education Board Not To Adopt Review Policy That Favors Creationism

A new policy under consideration by the Louisiana Board of Elementary and Secondary Education is slanted to favor creationism and should be revised, says Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

Due to lobbying by the Religious Right, Louisiana legislators approved a law in 2008 that allows for “supplemental materials” to be used in public school science classes. The Board has developed a policy for reviewing these materials that is seriously flawed, says Americans United.

“It’s obvious what’s going on here,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. “Louisiana elected officials are once again trying to undercut the teaching of evolution and slip creationism into science classes. This effort must fail.”


Looks like James Dobson is pushing for this new law.

The Board calls for allowing challenged materials to be reviewed by a panel that could easily be stacked with people sympathetic to creationism. It would bypass the expert opinion of the Louisiana Department of Education.

..."The Louisiana Family Forum, a state affiliate of Religious Right leader James Dobson’s Focus on the Family, pushed for adoption of the new law and will likely try to use it to smuggle creationist materials into public schools.


They never give up on their principles. The religious right keeps pushing their agenda over and over, and it appears there has been too much caving done to them.

In Florida there is a law now that evolution is to be taught in science class, not the other options. But they are still trying to undermine that new requirement, trying new tactics all the time. It does not help that many counties in Florida have school boards that have a majority in favor of teaching creationism.

People are on to their tactics, and the majority disapprove. However the people in leadership don't especially care if they disapprove.

In 2007 I posted some letters to the editors pointing out the ridiculous nature of what the religious groups are doing.

Intelligent Design Doesn't Fit

Before we include Intelligent Design (ID) in our science curriculum, let's imagine other subject areas and wonder what it would be like to include disparate ideas therein. For example, we wouldn't expect our mathematics classes to teach George Washington's farewell address, because we would see the ideas presented there are not mathematical (though he does caution us against the multiplying ills of a two-party political system). And we would rightly cry foul if our language arts classes mandated the teaching of chemistry: The two ideas are like apples and Buicks.


And another:

Backward Education

It looks as if Polk County School Board members Fields, Harris, Lofton, Sellers and possibly Cunningham would have us return to those dark days of yesteryear when the old men who wove the creation fairy tale believed Earth was the center of the universe and that it was flat.

...."I ask the creationists to go back to the second verse of the Bible. "And the Earth was waste and void and darkness was upon the face of the Earth." If God created it all, as they think, why did he go through the trouble of creating an ugly mass that had to be improved upon? Who was he trying to impress with the improvements noted in Genesis?

Why did the writers of Genesis give him human frailties such as being so worn out he had to rest, or that he stepped back from each of his tasks and pronounced it good? If he was God, would he tire, or would he expect anything but good? If the answer to these questions is the old standby canard called faith, then it doesn't belong in a classroom.


And one more, which was my favorite:

Road Map to Hillbilly USA

Dirty Harry understood that "a man's got to know his limitations." In that vein, we should ask since when are School Board members qualified to say what should be taught in science classes? None has expertise in this area. Don't get me wrong- I am sure each is competent in their own field. But none of the seven has a degree in a pure science discipline, Lori Cunningham coming closest with a B.S. in electrical engineering.

While I am sure they all have had some training in science, they have lost sight of its essence and scope. Because of this they cannot see why evolution is science and intelligent design is not. Indeed intelligent design is a compelling concept and if they want to include it in a philosophical or (gasp) religious context that is fine. Just keep it out of the science curriculum. Look out Polk County- as long as our School Board considers flouting science standards, we will remain Hillbilly USA.


Glad the AU and Barry Lynn are staying on top of the situation in Louisiana.




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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Scary.
I bet these kids can compete with the Chinese. Not.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. time for the FSM!
if certain groups want to teach creationism, the flying spaghetti monster gets equal time. and has as much validity.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that the Abrahamic god spoke the earth into existence on October 23rd, 4004 BCE. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that Marduk created the sky and the Earth from Tiamat's body. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that Odin created the Earth from the body of the frost giant Ymir. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that the Damballah created the earth by slithering across the waters and shedding his skin. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that the sky and the sea collided, creating three gods and the Earth is the aftermath of the battle between them. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that Atum masturbated, his ejaculate had sex with itself, and gave birth to the sky and the Earth. Teach the controversy!
I want to see kids learn that the water beetle created the Earth from mud brought to the surface of the water. Teach the Controversy!
I want to see kids learn that the sky came down to have sex with the Earth and the other gods got the sky to back off by smoking tobacco. Teach the Controversy!
I want to see kids learn that Lake Titicaca sprang out of darkness along with Con Tiqui Varacocha and the first humans. Teach the Controversy!
I want to see kids learn that the first humanity separated sky and earth so they could have some breathing room. Teach the Controversy!

I love recycling comments!
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I want to see kids learn that
we are just spirit beings caught in an endless cycle of samsara. Teach the controversy!

I want to see kids learn that the earth is merely the vomitus of the creator. Teach the controversy!

I want to see kids learn that Raven found humans in the shells of sea creatures and freed them. Teach the controversy!

I want to see kids learn that the so-called "God" of the Bible is merely a lesser creation of the Goddess Sophia. Teach the controversy!

I want to see kids learn that the earth is floating on the back of a giant trout. Or a turtle. Or a frog. Teach the controversy!

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14thColony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. A good start!
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 06:04 AM by 14thColony
Why do they assume that 'Creation' means just the story in the Bible/Talmud? If one belief system gets a stage, then they ALL have to or there is no equality before the law, and therefore the state is by default advocating for one religion above others.

And while we're at it, let's also teach the other 'controversies':

- Give Biblical hydrography equal time - somewhere on earth there must still be enough water to flood the whole place
- Give Biblical mathematics equal time - the Bible says pi is 3, and anything past the decimal place is blasphemy
- Give Biblical cosmology equal time - the stars are just lights shining through from heaven, the earth is the center of the solar system, and the Moon produces its own light
- Give Biblical geology/geography equal time - the earth is flat, and somewhere there is a mountain from which one can see the entire surface of the earth

Now the kids will REALLY be well-equipped when they've been taught all the controversies, and not just the one about creation/abiogenesis/the development of life.

Teach ALL the controversies...or better yet none of them.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is this part of the plan to keep Americans dumb and docile??
?
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Must be.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Organized patriarchal religion has always been part of that plan . ..!!!
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. absolutely
Smart people see through their bullshit and call them on it.That is the last thing the PTB wants.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Dumb, docile, and good at following orders. Good soldiers and worker bees.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. Dumbasses.
They really want to teach this shit? Really? Or that pseudo science ID?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/1.html]
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/2.html

Plus, God was a bloodthirsty motherfucker, he set Cain up. Cain, who grew things from the land he rejected, in favor of Abel who raised living things to kill.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/4.html
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 06:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. good luck with that. this is settled law and they will lose.
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donquijoterocket Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. but spend money
Who knows how many small local school districts will suffer financially from having to defend against the inevitable lawsuits a la Kitzmiller v. Dover? You can be sure that the various winger orgs promoting this and the winger orgs like the Discovery Institute ,the Thomas More Law Center, and Dobson's odious spin offs will not absorb the costs. It leaves one to wonder how many more stinging and humiliating defeats it will take for the backers of this movement to realize their time is not come round, and how many students will suffer for their stupidity and ignorant obstinance.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent.
They'll subject the schools to multiple lawsuits and waste a bunch of money the school can't spare fighting them, then bitch in the same breath about how public schools aren't teaching our kids anything at all. Don't worry, once it's all charter schools they can teach whatever they want, and if they can't, then they won't be able to teach kids anything either when large hunks of their budget are wasted on fighting lawsuits.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. yup, teach all the creationismisms.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Major biology conference shuns Louisiana..Feb. 2009
Things like this are bound to happen when scientific facts are ignored.

http://ncse.com/news/2009/02/major-biology-conference-shuns-louisiana-004312

"The executive committee of the Society of Integrative and Comparative Biology decided not to hold any future meetings in New Orleans owing to "the official position of the state in weakening science education and specifically attacking evolution in science curricula," according to a February 5, 2009, letter (PDF) from SICB's president, Richard Satterlie, to Louisiana's governor Bobby Jindal. Noting that the last SICB meeting, held in Boston, attracted over 1850 scientists and graduate students to the city for five days, Satterlie observed, "As you might imagine, a professional meeting with nearly 2000 participants can contribute to the economic engine of any community." But in 2011, those economic benefits will accrue to Salt Lake City rather than to New Orleans.

Particularly of concern to SICB was the Louisiana Science Education Act — originally introduced as Senate Bill 561, then renamed as Senate Bill 733, and finally enacted as Louisiana Revised Statutes 17:285.1. As NCSE previously reported, the law threatens to open the door for creationism and scientifically unwarranted critiques of evolution to be taught in public school science classes. The development of a policy about what types of supplementary classroom materials will, and will not, be allowable under the law was not reassuring, especially when a provision that "aterials that teach creationism or intelligent design or that advance the religious belief that a supernatural being created humankind shall be prohibited for use in science classes" was deleted.

Taking note of SICB's decision, the Louisiana Coalition for Science wrote in a February 13, 2009, press release (PDF), "The first tangible results of the Louisiana legislature's passage and Gov. Bobby Jindal's signing of the 2008 Louisiana Science Education Act have materialized, and these results are negative both for the state's economy and national reputation."
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Something similar happened here
A local scientific research company in KC was looking to expand. Huge employer. But between the evolution crap in KS and the anti stem cell research crap in MO, they pulled back their expansion plans and went looking elsewhere.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. These people are relentless. Unencumbered by facts and reality, they move mindlessly forward


Unhinged zealots.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Obviously, right wing dictatorial religion still plays a strong role in southern politics . . .!!!
At least, IMO -- ????

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks for reminding me that I need to renew my membership to AU. Rec.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-07-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Kitzmiller
Edited on Thu Jan-07-10 10:02 PM by slackmaster
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Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. So which religions creation myth do they plan to teach?
I think they should go with the Iroquois Giant Turtle angle.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. They'll have to teach THIS one
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

as it makes just as much sense as the one in Genesis 1.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. heheh heh ...I like it :P
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thotzRthingz Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. i have no problem with "religions" wanting to teach creationism, but i do have a problem with
using PUBLIC FUNDED schools to do so.

I attended private (catholic) schools through until graduating high school. THEY funded their own schools and they TAUGHT "science, math, history, languages, etc." with one class/course SET ASIDE (i.e., "religion" class). I think I got an excellent education... and I'll also note here that once I left home, I "moved on" to other spiritual paths (never again to look back at catholicism, or any other "organized religion" for that matter).

If the "creationists" want to teach this stuff, to their children... then they too can FUND their own schools... and send their children to same (or, for that matter, they can HOME-SCHOOL their children).

...just my 2cents
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. It occurs to me there IS a place to teach creationism in the public schools
Many schools still teach Mythology. Change the name to Comparative Religion and add the Bible to the curriculum.

Y'know, these fundamentalists who believe in Biblical inerrancy are going to be shocked when they get to heaven and Jesus tells them "wine" means wine not grape juice and "sheep" means sheep not Christians.
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ikri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-08-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
26. This issue just won't die
It might be time for a new tactic with these nuts. Find the backers of the new proposals and tell them that they can have their way if, and only if, they cover the costs of defending their new "science".

Let them bankrupt themselves trying to defend the indefensible. Hell, even if what passes for "science" in their eyes isn't booted to touch by the courts you can take comfort in the fact that your kids will know every creation myth known to man by the end of their schooling.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-09-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
27. oh yeh? Well I think they need to teach advanced Yoga Philosophy
as well as Native American Medicine Wheel teachings....maybe that would help balance out the teachings of the Christians a bit...and then the kids won't come out so brain washed.... :P
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