States crack down on meth ingredients-bills require prescriptions for medicines with pseudoephedrine

[The Straight Story]

States crack down on meth ingredients


WASHINGTON, Feb. 1 (UPI) -- Cold and allergy sufferers could find it more difficult to obtain a common decongestant in states trying to block methamphetamine labs, officials said.

Pseudoephedrine is mixed with other chemicals to produce highly addictive methamphetamine. The chemical mix, often concocted in hotel rooms and homes, can explode and catch fire.

California and Mississippi are considering bills to require prescriptions for medicines with pseudoephedrine, such as Sudafed and Claritin-D and several Missouri communities have passed prescription ordinances, USA Today reported Monday.

The Kentucky Narcotics Officers Association is helping draft a prescription bill for its state and Oklahoma plans to increase electronic tracking to detect excessive purchases.

http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2010/02/01/States-crack-down-on-meth-ingredients/UPI-59161265035237/

[hedgehog]

1. Wouldn't it be safer all around if we just allowed meth heads to

buy meth OTC?

I'm not certain we're stopping anyone from getting meth, and the manufacture of the illicit stuff is
hazardous to the environment. Toss in the theft of anhydrous ammonia from farms and impurities in the illicet product and I think we would be better off just legalizing the junk.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Probably.

As well as places that they could use them.

[AlienGirl]

11. Or to get a less destructive amphetamine legally, much the same way I do

I think people use meth because it's cheap and available, and those people might switch to a milder and more controllable version if it were available. Combining that with medical monitoring could be a way to reduce harm significantly, and likely reduce the meth use. I get legal methylin to treat a neurological problem; maybe people could get legal amphetamines to treat addiction problems?

Tucker

[timeforpeace]

2. Alternatively, meth labs WILL find it more difficult to obtain a common meth precursor.

[Oregone]

16. Curious: What percent of major meth manufacturers start with marked up pills they snag at Walgreens?

[timeforpeace]

29. All of them? What else would they use?

[Oregone]

31. Raws obtained from Chinese labs or chem research suppliers

Its the bottom line that counts. Not to mention, impurities from pills can ruin a final product.


All of them, eh? Where did you find that stat?

[timeforpeace]

32. Was there a question mark after all of them? If so what does that tell you?

[Oregone]

34. I just find it interesting how these laws are being passed that clearly...

benefit both the medical industry and the pharmaceutical industry (by eliminating easily obtainable OTCs and forcing people to go to doctors to get prescription drugs instead), and yet no one has any hard data of what percent of this stuff used in production comes from OTC drugs. Not to mention, how much of it is even domestic (a bit comes from Canada).

Its almost a big excuse they are using to benefit big industry, and scare people into doing so. Who knows, eh?

[timeforpeace]

36. I would think that restricting to Rx what previously was OTC would greatly decreases sales.

[Oregone]

39. Yes, and alternatively, it could boost sales of other pharma products

Now, if you have to go to your doctor, you may not get the option of having this stuff prescribed, but something else from a big pharma company that your doctor thinks is best (or a company he receives a lot of favors from).

All in all, less people will probably be on them because their access is cut off and the doctor is the bottleneck/controller. Not sure if that is a good thing or not from a health perspective, but it does benefit some industries disproportionately. Such is life.

[Romulox]

49. It would decrease VOLUME, but we've seen steep price increases to compensate. nt

[timeforpeace]

33. Raw whats obtained from Chinese labs? Are you making this stuff up?

[Oregone]

35. No

Ive worked in an industry where people obtain all sorts of raw goodies (some illicit) from Chinese labs that they use in domestic "nutritional" products. You would be surprised on what you can get and how easy it is to do so. The labs love your business and ask little questions.

[DJ13]

3. Thats stupid

Now people will need to pay for a doctor visit to buy a product that has been legal for decades?

Wasnt limiting the quantity that could be bought enough?

[MindPilot]

8. Just another step in Obama's socialist plans to

ration healthcare.

that was :sarcasm: of course.


Limiting the quantities that could be purchased didn't work so the obvious solution to something that doesn't work is more of the something that doesn't work.

[michreject]

13. Not entirely true

I had to have a script to get Claritin d. The Govt deregulated it and I had to buy it OTC. At a higher cost, mind you. This wasn't all that long ago. They then moved it behind the Pharmacy counter. I have to show my drivers license to buy it.

[Arkansas Granny]

14. Apparently they found a way to get around the quantity limit.

This report is from 2009, but I doubt things have changed much since then.

Meth makers are getting around a law created four years ago that limits the amount of pseudoephedrine
they can buy. That's a substance in cold medicines that people can use to make the dangerous drug.
This year, sheriff's offices across central Arkansas are reporting an increase in meth labs, including Lonoke County where they've already busted six labs since January.
Lieutenant Jim Kulesa with the Lonoke County Sheriff's office says you can only buy 9 grams of
pseudoephedrine a month. But people who run labs have started getting around that by asking other
people to buy it for them out of the area, so it's harder for authorities to track.

http://www.leadsonline.com/main/news/pdfs/031709_01.pdf

[AlienGirl]

18. What's to stop them from using similar methods to get around a Rx requirement?

Dealers already just have different people visit different doctors for things like oxycontin, so why wouldn't they just send people in complaining of congestion to get multiple pseudoephedrine scripts?

Tucker

[DJ13]

23. The only solution to stop it is to outlaw it

That would be the obvious conclusion since theres no 100% way to keep them from acquiring it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. fucking morons n/t

[Posteritatis]

5. I never got the sheer terror people seem to have about meth

Yes, I know, it's a terrible drug with terrible effects and is generally terrible, but does it seem to anyone else that governments go much further to prevent the possibility of it showing up than they will just about anything else?

Electronic tracking of allergy medications, "excessive purchase" limits for same well within what some people I know legitimately need to use, banning certain ones altogether, going far enough in some states to ban flasks and test tubes without a license(!)... it's ridiculous, and as most of us probably know, entirely ineffective. I understand that it's the current moral panic of the drug war and has been for a few years, but I can't think of any other drug with so many things potentially vaguely tied to it being legislated against.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Meh. Boogeyman du jour.

[Posteritatis]

10. Well, yes, but people seem to be wetting their pants more about it than other boogiemen. (nt)

[Robb]

19. Every few years

...I have to trot out a post I made in 2005, back when I was driving ambulances:

...I'm an EMS worker. Aside from the horrible effects of meth use, which you can read about anywhere, let me tell you what we come across that NOBODY came across before with other drugs:

Meth labs produce waste byproducts that meth cookers (because they are also addicts) don't dispose of properly. About every month one of the poor SOB's picking up trash along the side of the highway (usually volunteers, often elderly) grabs a poorly closed plastic trash sack and gets an exposure that puts them in the hospital for three days.

The chemicals involved cannot be metabolized by the body. So the body excretes them, typically through the skin causing horrible, terrifying sores.

Ambulance drivers and EMTs I work with tell stories about responding to fires in the past two years in rural communities, double-wides on 35 acres in the sticks. Kids so exposed they're going to be in the health care system forever.

A good friend in law enforcement showed up on a call when the mom called the ambulance because her 3 year-old daughter wasn't breathing ... cop buddy stepped on nails from a buried plank. EMT rolled through similar with the stretcher. Sheriff's office later described the WHOLE LOT booby-trapped, broken glass, needles, even a bomb. To say nothing of the chemicals that took a week to clean up with everyone dressed up like Teletubbies from Mars.

All this for a product where you spend $200 on ingredients to earn $800 IF you sell the whole batch, which you usually don't.

This is a drug for the poor, the desperate, and ultimately the paranoid. Most stores in Colorado restrict the number of ingredients you can purchase at once. Smaller producers are being driven out of business because they can't afford to hire the 11 year-old "runners" to head out to different stores all over town. It kills off the little meth labs, which are the ones who have no FUCKING IDEA what they're doing.

So production moves off-shore? Pardon my insensitivity, but great. It means two things: the cost of the drug will increase, which means fewer poor people will be able to afford it, and maybe the problem will move into the class of people who may actually take some action about it; and secondly, I won't have to carry the goddamn biohazard crap every time I head out on a call.

Passing the problem on? Better believe it.

[Posteritatis]

22. So it's okay that the rest of us shouldn't be allowed to get allergy medication?

Yes, yes, I know the stuff sucks. You seem to think it's mere acceptable losses if people have to suddenly start juggling the additional hassle of doctor's visits, insurance issues, whatever other markups will get involved, etc., just so they can function. If the US had a civilized health care system, maybe, but until then there's got to be better options than banning everything under the sun just because someone might use it for the wrong reasons.

You're not going to convince me that making it illegal to own Erlenmeyer flasks in some states is a good or useful idea any more than you're going to convince me that people should have to pass a presumption-of-guilt test to get medication.

[timeforpeace]

30. It's just a decongestant. There are other decongestants.

[AlienGirl]

38. None that work, though.

[Posteritatis]

42. Right, and they're all equally effective with everyone's identical conditions. (nt)

[WolverineDG]

44. None of the rest work on me

my sinuses laugh at anything that's not pseudophedrine.

dg

[Romulox]

48. Most are both less effective and much more costly. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Those are problems by law enforcement in the first place.

[Romulox]

26. The crack and cocaine dealers have GUNS. Cops would rather bust homeless people

and kids smoking pot in the park.

[AlienGirl]

9. SUCK! I don't want to pay for a clinic visit every time I have a head cold

Pseudoephedrine is the only thing that stops that awful gagging post-nasal-drip thing that I get.

Tucker

[surrealAmerican]

12. Not only is this a waste of money for people who have ...

... perfectly legitimate uses for the stuff, but it is a waste of their doctors' time too.

[Oregone]

15. Great idea. Now it only costs $100 dollars to visit a doctor to get prescribed former OTC medicine

LOL. Was this EVER about meth? Seriously. You can get bulk raws. How many fucknuts, and what percent of the meth production, is actually derived from people buying Psuedophedrine pills that are marked up 800% from production in the first place? Are you fucking kidding me?

[AlienGirl]

20. Percentage derived from pseudoephedrine pills? I don't know, do you?

Pardon my ignorance, but what are "bulk raws"?

Tucker

[Oregone]

21. Not at all. Someone must know know to make such laws

I do know that those pills are extremely marked up, contain very little ingredients to work with, and have all type of other stuff that will cause impurities (as well as add time to the process).

You can import the precursors from China labs (cheap, but impure too despite CoAs) or order from domestic chem research suppliers. Id doubt any large scale producer would hassle with going to a local store for that shit. And if its not large scale ops they are after....might be more to the story

[OhioChick]

17. This is insane...

Get a cold....have to see the doc and pay who knows what for a script for a cold medicine.

[Romulox]

25. Basic cold pills have almost DOUBLED in price since moving behind the counter.

Bet the drug industry is on board with criminalizing hay fever. Which makes sense, because the War on Drugs has been a rousing success everywhere it's been tried. :eyes:

[Edweird]

27. Holy crap that's dumb.

[Flaneur]

28. I call such laws the Mexican Methamphetamine Market Share Enhancement Act

Because that's the main competition for mom-and-pop home cookers.

Such laws won't step meth, but they will inconvenience lots of innocent non-meth users.

[Oregone]

41. Don't forget Canada

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/06/24/f-unitednations-drug-report-canada-ecstasy.html

Honestly, this takes good jobs away from hardworking domestic citizens. :)

[Shell Beau]

37. Yep, I am so looking forward to having to get a 'script for Sudafed.

:eyes:

My state is one of the ones considering this.

[Kievan Rus]

40. This is stupid

There are all sorts of restrictions on cough medicine, because...wait for it...people can make drugs with it! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

Yet, there are no restrictions on the purchase of fertilizer...which Timothy McVeigh used to blow up a federal building in Oklahoma and the I.R.A. used for bombings in the United Kingdom.

I've said it once and I'll say it again...the government cares more about what people put in their own bodies than what terrorists both foriegn and domestic are up to.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

43. Great, so next time I have a runny nose I'll just have to go pick up some meth. n/t

[enuegii]

45. I guess it's back to jacking salt blocks

from Farmer Brown for the do-it-yourselfers.

[Withywindle]

46. This is INFURIATING.

Gee, haven't we just spent the last few months talking about how scandalously many Americans have no health insurance, how many have coverage that SUCKS and might or might not help out only if something truly catastrophic happens? And how scandalously many Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck or unemployment-check-to-unemployment check?

Going to the frakkin' doctor everytime you get a stuffy nose is a LUXURY, and most of us don't have it!


:mad:

[Berry Cool]

47. Oh, great! That's all we need!

Sorry, folks, but when I have a nasty cold, I need the pseudo--the other stuff won't do. I deliberately go out and buy a box of it when I'm not sick just so I have it in the house if I do get sick. Because the last thing you feel like doing when you're sick is going out and having to buy stuff to make you feel better.

If states end up requiring prescriptions first for ALL psuedo, that's going to be insane. Every person who just wants to get rid of a damn cold will have to go to the doctor, incur a doctor's bill and beg for a pseudo scrip. As if we needed more health-care expenses! As if doctors need to have their offices flooded with yet more sick people who have nothing worse than a cold!

[Fleshdancer]

50. because prescription drugs are NEVER abused or obtained in large amounts

:sarcasm:

I already have to hand over my ID and sign a piece of paper just to get real sudafed. Is this really necessary??

[winyanstaz]

51. I am not a doctor so this is NOT medical advice...

But I use a tincture of Cinnamon and vodka/or distilled water.
Place around 6-8 Cinnamon sticks covered with enough vodka or distilled water (about 2/3- 1pint)) to cover the sticks...place it in a brown paper bag (no sunlight on herbs please) and set it by your kitchen sink so you will remember to shake it at least once a day for about a week.

Strain out the Cinnamon sticks and put it into a dropper bottle. (be sure it is a dark glass bottle...again..no sunlight on herbs)

10 - 12 drops on the back of the tongue in the morning and again at night will quickly and safely and easily dry up the sinus problems..as Cinnamon is a natural and safe decongestant.

I use it at the first sign of the sniffles and I have not had a cold since I started using this tincture for well over two years now and neither has my family

It will keep safely for about a year...however I have never had it last that long without having to make a new batch for my family and friends.

(always check with your doctor before using herbs)