Cutting Social Security "Entitlements"

[Ghost in the Machine]

Let me start out by saying that I have not looked too deeply into this subject, but I still have a few observations, and a personal anecdote:

Social Security is not an "entitlement", it is something that everyone pays into with each paycheck they collect. This is something akin to a retirement plan, albeit not a very prosperous retirement plan. If the Government tries to do away with this plan, there had better be mass protests, people in the streets and lawsuits filed demanding that every dime that each person paid in be repaid to them, in lump sum, immediately. If this does not happen, more lawsuits should be filed and charges of fraud, and running a ponzi scheme should be filed against the Federal Government collectively, and the President, Vice President and each member of Congress individually.

As for the "entitlements", there *are* people who are drawing Social Security who have never paid a dime into it. Maybe these are the "entitlements" that they are talking about cutting? If they cut these "entitlements", we can only hope that they have some kind of plan, other than "faith based initatives", to help out those who need the help.

Now comes the personal anecdote:

My uncle (by marriage) was born in Cuba. His family moved here in the 1940's, when he was a toddler. He grew up here, served in Viet Nam in the Air Force and worked for Eastern Airlines, Northwest Airlines and Lockheed Martin, as well as ran his own business as a gunsmith. His father, "Papa", ran a successful construction company for 40+ years. He paid his taxes, paid into Social Security, and lived a very good life. When he retired, he was able to draw his Social Security that he had paid into for 40+ years.

Sounds pretty normal so far, doesn't it? Well, here's the twist to the story...

"Papa's" sister, who lived in Cuba this whole time, finally came to the US in the 90's. Although she had never worked one day in this Country, and had never paid one dime into Social Security, she was able to apply for, and receive, Social Security Benefits. You know what the *real* kick in the 'nads is about this story?? Even though she had never worked a day, nor paid in a dime into Social Security.... she drew a check each month that was more than Papa's.... You tell me what's wrong with this picture.

If those are the kind of "entitlements" that they are seeking to cut, I can stand behind that. If their plan is to totally gut Social Security and rip off the people who have paid into it their whole lives, you can count on me to be in the front of the line headed to DC and, as Robert F Kennedy Jr once said: "I'll see you at the barricades"...


Peace,

Ghost

[Mike 03]

1. I want to undersatnd more about what you are saying.

This is bottom line important stuff.

[Mike 03]

2. Just so you know, I tried to Rec your thread, but it was instantly de rec'd. NT

[elleng]

4. I rec'd, and it has 2 now, fyi.

[Ghost in the Machine]

7. Thank you for the effort, anyways... I don't sweat the unreccers, it means nothing to me...

To understand more of what I am saying, or the "bottom line", as you put it, is quite simple (imho).

There are people drawing Social Security that shouldn't be. *They* are getting "entitlements" because they have never paid in, yet they are reaping the benefits. Why should a 60something year old woman who just moved to this Country be able to draw more in a Social Security check than someone who worked and paid in for 40+ years??

If anyone has a rational answer for that, I'd LOVE to hear it...

[Hannah Bell]

12. Post 6: I believe she got SSI, not Social Security, based on the paper I linked in post 6

listing the benefits Cuban immigrants are eligible for: SSI, TANF, Medicaid, etc.

All welfare-type benefits.

SSI is often mistakenly thought to be "Social Security" because it's administered by the Social Security Administration (i.e. the checks come out of their office) & SSI sounds like it *should be* social security.

But it's not. SSI isn't funded with OASDI payroll taxes. It's funded from general revenue.

[Ghost in the Machine]

13. That may be a possibility, I will check on that tomorrow... thanks for the post

:hi:

[SoCalDem]

18. answer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7730515#7730676

[Mike 03]

3. Amazing post, please what read this person is saying. NT

[elleng]

5. We obviously have to understand why/how this happened.

[Hannah Bell]

6. On edit: I don't think your aunt got "Social Security". I think she got SSI, per this paper on

benefits Cuban immigrants are eligible for.

Information starts on page 8: Federal Assistance to Cuban Migrants. Info on SSI, TANF, etc. on p. 9.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:M2_Hs3uuuXgJ:www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R40566.pdf+%22social+security%22+cuban+immigrants&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjg5oPliyBic8iuSS4esEu5-6a7HaH5iHOGxHzYvYSTToJ3RP7VXOktYYdJKcK33PTT-YTJuT4eHMjaiFaO_rqtrchBO3b6PnMEFThKuy62q2numDPLq9wPHqk5Ltbc51cUSPEB&sig=AHIEtbQH27mgFwpCe0a3PTK33HieMe-PCQ



SSI = Supplemental Security Income.

It's *not* Social Security. It's *administered* by the Social Security Administration. They cut & mail the checks.

But it's NOT FUNDED out of payroll taxes like SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS are. It's funded from INCOME TAXES. And it doesn't pay the same amount of benefits Social Security does.

In fact, aside from being administered by the Social Security Administration, it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIAL SECURITY.

SSI is a "welfare"-type program. Anyone who meets the eligibility requirements (age, disability, blindness, etc.) can get it, whether they ever paid a dime of income tax or not.

SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS ARE FUNDED FROM THE PAYROLL TAXES OF WORKING PEOPLE, & ONLY PEOPLE WHO'VE PAID IN & THEIR child/survivor dependents, can get it.

[laughingliberal]

9. Yes, I think we'd all like to know that

I don't know of any basis under which someone who has never paid into SS is able to draw it. In fact, this is one of the reasons lawmakers have been reluctant to do anything about illegal immigrants. They are paying about $9 billion a year into SS that they will never be able to draw out.

[Hannah Bell]

11. I'm 99% sure she got SSI. It's not Social Security. It's a welfare-type payment

funded out of the general budget. Per the reference I link, cuban immigrants are eligible for SSI, TANF, Medicaid & other welfare-type benefits.

But not Social Security.

People often confuse SSI with Social Security. It's administered by the SS Administration, but it's not funded out of payroll(SS) taxes. It's funded out of general revenues/income tax.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7730515&mesg_id=7730539

[laughingliberal]

14. Thanks. nt

[JDPriestly]

8. The average Social Security benefit in Dec 2009 was $1,064 per month.

That is not much considering how much the average person put in and the inflation rates.

You cannot balance the budget on the backs of the elderly who can no longer get jobs and work. Many of us would be willing to work if the jobs were there for us.

[sandnsea]

10. Social Security is a legal entitlement

http://www.obama-mamas.com/blog/?p=143

"The ‘Lectric Law Library defines them as “A federal program that guarantees a certain level of benefits to persons or other entities who meet requirements set by law, such as Social Security, farm price supports or unemployment benefits. It thus leaves no discretion with Congress on how much money to appropriate, and some entitlements carry permanent appropriations.”

In other words, these are programs that any person can apply for and the criteria does not change from state to state. The Federal Government protects all people, no matter where they live. The people are legally entitled to the benefits enacted by federal law. According to the Brookings Institute, “First, entitlements are available on demand to those who qualify for them.” The most important examples of entitlement programs include Social Security, Medicare, Veterans’ Administration programs, military retirement plans, unemployment compensation, and food stamps."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7554582#7554622

[SoCalDem]

15. There is a difference between SSI and regular SS payments

My friend's elderly brother collects SSI, and he never worked becauise he is mentally handicapped. Frail, elderly people who emigrate to the US often collect SSI. This was a big issue when the Boat People from the Viet Nam war were being relocated here, and often they came with multiple family members..aunts, uncles, grandparents etc..these people usually were able to get SSI.]


http://www.ssa.gov/ssi/text-eligibility-ussi.htm

aged (age 65 or older);
blind; or
disabled.

And, who:

has limited income; and

has limited resources; and

is a U.S. citizen or national, or in one of certain categories of aliens;

and

is a resident of one of the 50 States, the District of Columbia, or the Northern Mariana Islands; and

is not absent from the country for a full calendar month or more than 30 consecutive days; and

applies for any other cash benefits or payments for which he or she may be eligible, e.g., pensions, Social Security; and

gives SSA permission to contact any financial institution and request any financial records that the financial institution may have about you; and
files an application; and

meets certain other requirements.

snip

[exboyfil]

22. So when the undocumented workers become citizens

Most will be on the subsidization side of Social Security (break point is around $50K/yr). Those making over $50K/yr (up to about $105K/yr) subsidize the benefits for those making less than that amount. Subsidy is even greater if those individuals pull enough income to have a portion of their S.S. taxed.

In addition this opens up the opportunity to bring family into this country (think parents) who will be entitled to SSI.

Maybe the economic benefits of making the undocumented workers citizens will outweigh the costs, but these factors should be considered.

By the way a $1000/mo. inflation indexed check is nothing to sneeze at. Go out and price inflation adjusted annuities to see how much that is actually worth. Figure a spouse drawing a $1000/mo as well, and you are talking about serious money (about what I will get from my defined benefit pension for 25 years of service and it will not be inflation indexed).

[mmonk]

16. If Democrats lead the charge on cutting social security,

the most meager program of a safety net in the civilized world, I will no longer be a member of this party. That is a guarantee, not even close to an idle threat.

[Hannah Bell]

17. +100. not only that, but i will call out the party at every possible opportunity as being worse -

bigger hypocrites - than the republicans.

[mmonk]

19. We're on the same page.

[baldguy]

20. The name of the thing says it all.

[mikehiggins]

21. The situation you describe is odd but

make no mistake about it. The intent of these "reforms" are to cut "Papas" benefits so Wall Street and others can use that money to finance more bonuses and private jets.

I once had a guy tell me that the syndicate would not cheat you at their gambling complex in Las Vegas. Just think, he insisted, how much they would lose if people stopped playing their games because the house always wins.

Wake up, I told him. These are professional criminals. Crime is what they do. It is their lifestyle and they see the rest of us ALL as marks to be taken to the cleaners every chance they get.

Ditto Wall Street and Big Business and the Military Industrial Complex, et al, and their wholly owned subsidiary, Congress.

The only question is how long before the trouble starts.