Let's forget, for a moment, that the war in Iraq is wrong.

[Raven]

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that we were not lied into this war and that getting rid of Saddam was a reasonable and noble cause. Assuming that, what we have now is a war that has gone on for 4 years with nothing to show but death and distruction and chaos. The war has been horribly mismanaged and bungled. So much so that the White House is looking for a Czar to bail it out...no better evidence of failure than that! And, in connection with flubbing almost everything that has to do with this war, we have wasted billions of dollars...taxpayers' dollars. Dollars that could go to better education and better healthcare.

So forget that war is wrong and that this war is obscene. We have it and it is being terribly fucked up and our kids are dying because of the incompetence. Incompetence, incompetence, incompetence....money, money, money.

Hear me on this! I table every weekend and this is the tact I've taken with war mongering repubs who come to my table. And they understand this. They love war but they hate incompetence and they hate wasting their precious money. It's a good argument and it works. We should use it.

[BOSSHOG]

1. I appreciate your passion, but

I find it hard to believe that republicans hate incompetence. It has been the heart of their party for at least 25 years. Conservatives are proud of their ignorance. They revel in believing stuff instead of knowing stuff.

[Raven]

4. They may be incompetent but they hate incompetence. It

is the difference between their image of what they are and what they are. My feeling is that the only way we are going to turn moderate repubs and conservative dems around on this is to talk incompetence and money.

[BOSSHOG]

5. I'd rather

put them all on a plane and dump their asses in Iraq. They wanted war in 03, they should accept responsibility in 07. I took way too much verbal abuse in 02 for my objections to the war to want to reason with these motherfuckers.

[Raven]

10. We'll be in this war until 2009 unless we are able to reason with

some of them on their level, not necessarily our level. There will be 1000+ more kids dying between now and 2009, maybe more. I'm willing to humor these bastards if that's what it takes to stop the killing.

[endarkenment]

2. It is not a war and hasn't been for four years.

It is an occupation, and a disastrous one. The question is how long exactly are we going to continue to occupy Iraq?

[rkc3]

11. What's the ratio of combat fatalities versus IED fatalities?

My guess is that it's fairly low - if we were losing soldiers in battles, taking ground, and weakening the enemy it might be more palatable.

But our soldiers are getting killed driving around Iraq. Despite the admin's assertions that the insurgency is in its death throes, they still continue to find ways to blow up convoys of our soldiers - and thousands of civilians too.

On the bright side, we've protected Big Oil's interest in the region for the next few years. At least they have our tax dollars to finance their future profits.

[atreides1]

3. Good Tactic

Unfortunately it's not the everyday war mongering repubs, that can make changes. It's the war mongering Repukes in the Congress that have the power to effect change!!!

And from what we've seen the Repuke members of Congress don't mind incompetence, or waste, as long as they are the ones promoting it and making a profit out of it, besides if the only thing that concerns your repub customers is waste and incompetence, and not the total pissing on the Constitution that is being done in their names, I'd just as soon stick to my principals and tell them to go piss up a rope.

[BeFree]

6. It works on some

And it does seem to be the policy of the DLC, to claim "we coulda won if only we were in charge".

So you're not way out in left field with this idea.

I like to cram it in their faces with: Impeach!
But that's just me.

[stellanoir]

7. Yup it's the bottom line that has the utmost priority for those folks.

If you bring up the inhumanity they'll just dismiss you as a latte drinking, volvo driving, tree hugging, peacenik, over aged hippie, and bleeding heart liberal.

They only have nerve endings in their wallets really.

K & R'd

[jayfish]

8. No, No, No, It Wasn't Wrong. We Just Went About It....

blah blah blah. Talking point. Blah, blah, blah.

Jay

[merh]

9. Give the prez his war funding bill with no timetable - BUT

include in that bill war taxes, specific tax increase that are earmarked for the war efforts and the war efforts alone. If they want the war, those who support it should be willing to pay for it. Once you make them put their money with their "war" is, they will want out of the mess and incompetence created by this admin.