Quebec budget attacks Medicare and other vital public services

[Hannah Bell]

With last week’s provincial budget, Quebec’s Liberal government has initiated a major downsizing of public and social services that will adversely impact working people not just in Quebec but across Canada.

By sharply curtailing spending for years to come, the budget sets the stage for service reductions and job cuts across the public sector. It also increases numerous user fees, charges and consumption taxes, while maintaining in toto the cuts to corporate, capital gains and personal income taxes made by Liberal and Parti Québécois governments alike over the past decade. These tax cuts, like those at the federal level, have been skewed to benefit the most privileged sections of society.

Particularly ominous was the announcement made by Finance Minister Raymond Bachand and subsequently confirmed by Premier Jean Charest that the government is intent on charging Quebecers for doctor and hospital visits...Under the Canada Health Act...user fees are illegal and Ottawa is empowered to financially penalize any province that imposes them. Because of this, the Quebec government is claiming that the proposed charge will not be a user fee, calling it a “health deductible” instead...

But no one should be under any illusion. Canada’s corporate elite has declared Medicare unsustainable. The Quebec government’s announcement is meant to force Ottawa to open a debate on “modernizing” the Canada Health Act....

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/queb-a06.shtml

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Your link doesn't work

[Hannah Bell]

2. works fine for me.

www.wsws.org for main page

[John Q. Citizen]

20. Thanks.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

3. Quebec's debt is 94% of it's GDP.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/782673--quebec-a-poor-little-rich-province

And that's even WITH other provinces paying Quebec's way.

[Hannah Bell]

34. japan's is 170%. and the us owes japan as much as it owes china.

so the hell what?

[ZeitgeistObserver]

38. Which is no help to Quebec at all.

[Hannah Bell]

41. (deflect) = don't know much about economics.

[Electric Monk]

4. A brief primer on Quebec's proposals for funding health care

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/brief+primer+Quebec+proposals+funding+health+care/2755582/story.html

The Quebec government's new proposals for the funding of health care have created confusion among the public.

Part of the problem is that the government has been talking about two separate initiatives interchangeably, and people have been confusing one with the other.

Another issue is that the government has been using complicated terminology.

To help clear things up, here is a brief primer in point form:

<snip>

3. The proposal that got into the budget (which will surely pass, because the Charest government has a majority in the National Assembly) calls for the introduction of a new flat tax to supplement existing health care funding. Adults will be required to pay $25 on their 2010 income-tax returns to be filed next spring, and $100 and $200, respectively, on their 2011 and 2012 returns.

<big snip>

8. The flat $25 charge, in insurance terms, is really more of a co-payment than a deductible. But since the Quebec government is saying people wouldn't have to pay $25 per visit once their total spending surpasses a threshold of one or two per cent of household income, the government says these payments should really be considered deductibles. In insurance, a deductible is a claim threshold below which the policyholder has to pay costs himself or herself. Most people are familiar with the deductibles on their car insurance or house insurance.

more at link...




$200 a year for full health insurance and a mere $25 copay, if I read that right?

[Hannah Bell]

5. which contradicts the op -- how, exactly?

[Electric Monk]

9. Did I say it did? You're looking to fight, but I'm not in the mood to fight.

I thought some relevant facts on this issue from a source other than wsws might help the discussion.

[Hannah Bell]

11. "Under the Canada Health Act user fees are illegal...

and Ottawa is empowered to financially penalize any province that imposes them. Because of this, the Quebec government is claiming that the proposed charge will not be a user fee, calling it a “health deductible” instead, and has, as of yet, only announced its intention to introduce such a charge."

call it what you like, it amounts to the same thing; this year $25, next year $100, next year fee for service.

"there's no money!!!"

same scam everywhere. wonder who has all the money?

[ZeitgeistObserver]

13. Quebec has lived beyond it's means for years.

And if they don't clean up their act PDQ, the other provinces will act to cut off their funding.

[Hannah Bell]

16. "beyond its means" - l-fucking-o-l. whose words are you mouthing?

Exports 147.6 billion (2008)
goods: 75.7 %
services: 24,3 %
international: 60.4 %
interprovincial: 39.6 %

GDP per capita 32,051 (2008)

While the province's substantial natural resources have long been the mainstay of its economy, sectors of the knowledge economy such as aerospace, information and communication technologies, biotechnology and the pharmaceutical industry also play leading roles.

These many industries have all contributed to helping Quebec become the second most economically influential province, second only to Ontario. <[br />

Quebec is one of the ten largest producers in the world in the mining sector. It is the second largest producer of gold and iron in Canada, the second largest producer of metallic substances in Canada, the second largest producer of industrial minerals and construction materials in Canada, and the world's second largest producer of niobium..

Alcan is the world's second largest aluminium manufacturer and is based out of Montreal.

Quebec is Canada's leader in the hydroelectric energy production.

Of the total Canadian venture capital funding 52 % is managed in Quebec with 61 % of available funds invested in technology. Sectors of note include telecommunications, multimedia software, computer services and consulting, microelectronics and components.

Quebec has eight deepwater ports for merchandise shipping, and in 2003 9.7 million tons of merchandise was carried by 3,886 cargo ships through the Saint Lawrence Seaway. The income created by this traffic is over $90 million per annum.

The Finance, insurance, real estate and leasing industry employs 218,000 people <5>, including the largest money manager in Canada, Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec.

Quebec's aerospace industry is ranked sixth in the world for its production value. Montreal is the second aerospace centre after Seattle and before Toulouse. There are some 260 companies of the aerospace sector that employ 40,000 people.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Quebec


"Lived beyond its means" = "the owners want more profits, & they're willing to kill to get them"

[ZeitgeistObserver]

17. It helps if you read the posts.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/782673--quebec-a-poor-little-rich-province

[Hannah Bell]

22. read one piece of boilerplate, read them all. I try to avoid propaganda pieces.

the boilerplate is the same bullshit used *every time* the owners want more money. I've been on this earth nearly 60 years, & i used to believe that bullshit when i was 20.

about the 10th bout of "restructuring" & "structural adjustment" & "economic miracle" I got wise.

profit made by bleeding the masses. "there's nooooooooooo moooooney (except for ours!)"

[ZeitgeistObserver]

24. The Star is required by it's mandate to be left-wing.

So this is no boilerplate or propaganda piece.

Quebec lives off everyone else.

[Hannah Bell]

26. ah, yes, those quebecois parasites, "living off everyone else" -- such left wing stuff you spew.

no need to read your boilerplate, heard it a million times since 1950.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

28. The Star is left-wing.

And so are you.

Quebec is a have-not province. Always has been.

[Hannah Bell]

30. one has only to look at the export & GDP figures to know that's bullshit.

quebec has often been a colony, however. & treated as colonies typically are, i.e. as a site for wealth extraction by outside rulers.

whose words are on your lips.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

33. LOL no the figures are bullshit.

Quebec has never been able to support itself.

[Hannah Bell]

36. real profits for someone, bucko.

"the figures are bullshit" - yeah, tell that to their trade partners, the people buying the stuff.

"it's just your imagination you paid for that."

[ZeitgeistObserver]

37. There are no profits there.

Exports, imports and all the other razzmatazz aside...Quebec depends on equalization payments to survive.

Perhaps it's the way you're reading it.

[Hannah Bell]

40. no profits? lol. someone's making profits by the boatload.

you seem not to understand basic economics.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. Extra, above and beyond what they currently pay in taxes for healthcare.

Or did you assume that was their total cost?

[Amonester]

7. the numero 3.

3. The proposal that got into the budget (which will surely pass, because the Charest government has a majority in the National Assembly) calls for the introduction of a new flat tax to supplement existing health care funding. Adults will be required to pay $25 on their 2010 income-tax returns to be filed next spring, and $100 and $200, respectively, on their 2011 and 2012 returns.

What it doesn't say is... when the next general election will be settled to happen in 2012 or 2013, the polls will be VERY LOW for that political party... SO LOW that they will not stand a chance to survive the election... all the opposition will do is promise to scrap that sh*t and they'll get voted in easily.

the current (neo-)liberal party is bought by mega-corporations.

no surprise there.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

8. The 'other party' is separatist.

And not very popular.

[Amonester]

10. Actually, the PQ is polling higher than the Lib$.

But there are also ADQ (Action Democratic du Quebec) party (centrist-autonomist, not separatist) and QS (Quebec Solidaire) party (very leftist and independentist) party deputies.

And they both wanna 'win'...

[ZeitgeistObserver]

12. They usually do between elections.

And the ADQ is dead. QS isn't even in the running.

[Amonester]

14. We'll see.

Anyway, I think the Lib$ are toast if they stick with that sh*t (which I doubt they will, because they wanna 'win' the next one too, and attacking social programs is a 'no' win for anyone in Quebec).

[ZeitgeistObserver]

15. Are you a separatist?

Or do you want to see Quebec go broke, or have it's funding cut off?

[Amonester]

18. I am 'leaning' Quebec Solidaire right now...

but not 100% committed yet.

And FYI, Quebec has performed the best throughout this 'crisis-of-the-riches' so far.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

19. Quebec isn't 'performing' at all.

It's being supported by the other provinces.

'using the measurement of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, it's also the fifth-most indebted jurisdiction in the industrialized world, far beyond Canada and the U.S.'

[Amonester]

21. Two words (for the near future): Clean Water.

and a f*****g lot of that 'blue gold' I tell you...

but the Lib$ refuse to 'take' 1 cent of 'royalties' from their CEO 'friend$' (if you know whatta mean...).

[ZeitgeistObserver]

27. Which Quebec doesn't have

No, I have no idea what you mean.

[Hannah Bell]

23. boilerplate bullshit. it's the second-richest province in canada.

& would be the richest if not for the dominance of finance in ontario.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

25. Quebec lives off everyone else. It's a have-not province.

And if Ontario, Alberta and BC stopped making the equalization payments, Quebecois would be starving.

[Hannah Bell]

29. lol. if quebec took its resources & industries back from the out-of-towners who own them,

*they'd* be starving.

2nd biggest gdp of all the provinces, yet you tell me -- they're beggars!

you might try thinking instead of just assimilating talking points from boilerplate propaganda pieces.

Québec exports its goods and services across Canada and around the globe. Exports totaled $157.3 billion (CAD) in 2008, representing 51.8% of Québec’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Of this total, the share of international exports is 60.4%, whereas that of interprovincial exports stands at 39.6%. Moreover, goods account for 75.7% of this trade while services represent 24.3%.

http://www.gouv.qc.ca/portail/quebec/pgs/commun/portrait/economie/importexport/?lang=en



Gee, they export more than half their GDP; I wonder who gets the lion's share of the profits?

I bet it's absentee owners based in Ontario.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

31. Quebec is a have-not province and always has been.

And if they 'nationalized' everything, they'd still be a have-not province.

[Hannah Bell]

32. try it & see.

[ZeitgeistObserver]

35. We already know the answer.

If Quebec could support itself, it would be doing so, and not getting most of it's budget from the other provinces.

[Hannah Bell]

39. i can see you get your talking points from the same sources as the wingers stateside.

In 2009-2010, six provinces will receive $14.2 billion in
equalization payments from the federal government.[1] 

Until the 2009-2010 fiscal year, Ontario was the only province
to have never received equalization payments; in 2009-2010
Ontario will receive $347 million,[2] while Newfoundland,
which has received payments since the program's creation, is
now a so-called "have" province, and is now a net
contributor and does not receive Equalization payments.


         NL   PE    NS    NB   QC    ON    MB   SK    
GDP p/c $41K  $30K  $33K  $32K $36K  $42K  $35K $43   
Ratio   98.6  71.2  79.0  75.9 85.0  101   83.8 102.3  
P/c ben   -   $2.4K $1.6K $2.K $1.0  $02  $1.7K  -   
  
AB   BC   Average 
$66  $39K $42K 
157  93.6 100.0
-     -    -

Gee, no scorn for PEI, New Brunswick, Manitoba and Nova
Scotia, all of whom receive more in per capita subsidies than
Quebec?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada


You must live in that place where everyone is above average.

anyhoo, it's been fun, but no sense trying to talk to
propagandists.  They just keep catapulting the same tired
talking points.


"a wealthy citizen in New Brunswick, a so-called
"have not" province, pays more into equalization
than a poorer citizen in Alberta, a so-called "have"
province. However, because of Alberta's greater population and
wealth, the citizens of Alberta as a whole are net
contributors to Equalization, while the citizens of New
Brunswick are net receivers of Equalization payments."