ok, check in.. how many of us "left wing" liberals are left on these boards?

[Lerkfish]

Just curious.

I'm checking in.

Anti war. Anti torture, Pro Union, Pro Choice, Anti Unitary Executive, Pro Consitution balance of powers....

[tekisui]

1. Check.

Also Pro-GLBT Rights, Pro-Environment, Pro-Immigration Reform.

[Lerkfish]

2. thanks very good additions.

I was not implying a complete list, just some examples, but yours are excellent things to add.

[roguevalley]

534. flaming far left leftie here.

[saigon68]

753. Recd + 1

Distressing to see the right wing swing here

Can't wait to see what the guy in the WH will do next to suck up to Joementum et al

[Stevepol]

70. I'm in there somewhere in the mix but on the far left side of the bowl.

[peace13]

94. Here! n/t

[StopTheNeoCons]

237. Here, leftist, proud of it, about to get militant ...nt

[Name removed]

327. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muffin1]

3. Me!

I'm part of the 'far left', as the MSM likes to say. :)

[Lerkfish]

4. very cool!

:)

[lob1]

489. The far left, according to the MSM, is anyone to the left of Hitler.

[muffin1]

559. LOL

True. They even call Obama far left.

[GreenPartyVoter]

574. Me too. :^)

[AllentownJake]

5. Classical liberal here nt

[Lerkfish]

7. much appreciated!

[Hannah Bell]

13. "classic liberal" = free trader. i.e. neo-lib.

[AllentownJake]

21. Yes I know I'm not exactly a socialist

and side a lot with the Austrians in the value of savings over debt and think Keyenes works on paper but politicians have no ability to carry out his philosphy.

Still, I have no use for torture, warrantless searches, wars, corporate handouts, and a lot of other things. Know your allies.

Calling me a neo-liberal is ridiculous.

[Hannah Bell]

28. i didn't call you a neo-lib. i said that's the standard definition of a "classic" liberal.

just to clarify it doesn't mean a roosevelt democrat.

neo-lib = libertarian in my book.

[AllentownJake]

32. I'm fine with government regulation

as long as there are sufficient barriers to regulatory capture.

[bobalew]

353. Regulation per se is Not how we need to view it

The Right has misguided us to the word "Regulation", it needs to be viewed by all, instead as "RULE OF LAW" This is why the crooks at Goldman Sachs & AIG got away with the largest bank robbery in the Planet's history... We got rid of the RULE OF LAW, in the financial industry. Making money out of thin air, by manipulating it means that a THEFT occurs every time that it is done. Period. This is what needs to be repaired & enforced. Not "Regulated"....
Regards, Bob

[AllentownJake]

593. Well yes

That is a better way to phrase it.

[krabigirl]

310. I think I am a classical liberal too.

[whathehell]

425. I believe history will tell you that Keynsian economics worked fine...Milton Friedman

and his hideous "disaster capitalism" suck deeply and are essentially responsible for the MISERABLE Mess we and the rest of the world are now in!

[Mojeoux]

462. check, check, check, check, and check

[whathehell]

Thank you!

[pundaint]

467. Yes, that's right.

[whathehell]

483. Yes, thanks. As a boomer, I sometimes wonder if age plays a part

in people's acceptance of even PART of our (relatively) new "global economy..trickle down" situation....I suspect they don't even remember a time when Keynsian economics WAS the reality in this country, with things being very different than they are now...Sixties, Seventies -- the pre-Reagan, latter "New Deal" era.

Many people here probably don't remember a president earlier than Reagan...or Clinton,for that matter...That's not their fault, of course. But, like some others, I feel it's my responsibility to give what might be a longer perspective.

[Mojeoux]

567. Living through Boomerhood

is a the story of NOW. To understand NOW, people have to have the full story.

People never gave a shit if anyone knew the brand of their clothes.
Can you Imagine?

lol

[martymar64]

624. My earliest memory was of Nixon

It's so strange that he would've been called a liberal by the current GOP.
To his credit, he did create the EPA.

[whathehell]

764. Yes...That's how far the country has moved to the Right, unfortunately.

[ShortnFiery]

6. Here.

More toned down but still part of the beloved late Paul Wellstone's "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party."

Hi neighbor. :-) :hi:

[Lerkfish]

9. Howdy neighbor!

we gots to stick together.

:wave:

[Selatius]

8. Barely. I'm simply not happy with the Democratic leadership or their apologists.

I really got worn down on the health care debate. Every piece of ground was virtually conceded to right wing Democrats and Republicans. It feels nice to be tossed under the bus repeatedly and labeled a purist in a pejorative sense. I wouldn't say I'm a purist. They're just full of bullshit.

[Lerkfish]

10. getting worn down around here is something I've been feeling also

I'm posting a lot less.

[Selatius]

I feel ya drift on that one. I am getting full of hearing excuses.

The country has the ability to blow up entire nations, but apparently, it doesn't have the power to defeat an insurance cartel or prosecute a war criminal or enforce anti-trust laws against corporations from Exxon to Wal-Mart.

[Radical Activist]

284. Reminds me of one of Obama's broken promises.

One of those issues he spoke about in the campaign that liberals should be lamenting.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/statement-president-barack-obama-nuclear-non-proliferation-treaty-review-conference

Feeling worn down is not seeing any forum, anywhere that celebrates Obama's progressive accomplishments or recognizes that progress is not defeat, even if we didn't achieve all of our goals.

[Spheric]

478. Nukes are bad for business...

Not much left to pillage after one of those bad boys goes off.

Conventional warfare is where the money is.

:nuke:

[lark]

535. What progressive accomplishments?

I'm serious? I see middle of the road accomplishments, ceding away real change in favor of the status quo, rich folks and selling us short. I know I can be pessimistic, but please tell me one real progressive accomplishment to date from him? I can tell you plenty of times when he's sold us a bill of goods and broken his promises, tell me one where he has kept it. Don't say healthcare, because he totally sold out single payer with that one and what we've really got it a huge boost to the insurance companies with very little for anyone else.

[martymar64]

627. I can only think of one - the Lily Ledbetter Act

Equal pay for equal work. That is a good law.

But beyond that? Got me.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grinchie]

480. Ditto

I do get some satisfaction at watching the cheerleaders finally start to see the horror of this Clinton Admin wrapped in the new mascots popularity fade into the grim reality that we've been hoodwinked yet again.

Lurking seems to be more appropriate at this time, watching the cheerleaders transform into an angry mob all on their own.

It's just too bad that they are so slow in being honest with themselves, and optimistically try to validate all the screwed up status quo policies with "3 Dimensional Chess" strategies or some other nonsense while Corporate America continues to steal our freedoms and ruin the planet.

In the face of the utter criminality going on in Wall Street, with the fraudulent manipulation being exposed last Thursday, only to have it wiped from the records by Monday, it's hard to see how the Economy can be trusted anymore. Face it, all the losses on Thursday were wiped on Monday -- How is it we had a volume of trades in the Billions on Thursday, and then it's all wiped out on a Monday with a Volume of 200 Million shares? People are clueless by not noticing this trickery. So why did the market go up on Monday and for what reason? Some statistical manipulation of the Jobs numbers, or the so called Trillion dollar bailout of Greece that fizzled the next day? Just look at the market today, sitting still while they figure out another way to coax some activity that looks good in the Market without exposing the fraud more egregiously.

Yet, people go on, working in their cubes, reliant on a pitiful symbol called Money that is only held up by their fear of making do without.

It's pretty clear that Americans have been drugged into a stuporific state of obedience and apathy, uneducated when it comes to providing for themselves, and totally dependant on "Goods and Services" that for the most part are no longer produced in America. Even for food, they are so stupid that they consume GMO, Non Nutritious food without demanding labeling so they could at least make an informed decision.

People need to wake up and take control of what they eat, reduce the toxic load they subject their bodies to, take time off for self education and healing their own physical and mental beings without regard to "Paying the Bills" like the rest of the world does.

Unfortunately, we have a shitload of Hawks that believe War is sustainable, yet fail to realize that it is wholly driven on Oil and resources we no longer produce.

Well, there's my Point of View. I 'm not going to keep beating the Jungle Drums in the hopes that people wake up.. I'm afraid it is too late for many, and if they haven't made the transition from Consumption to Production, there is little hope for a soft landing.

I never thought I'd say this, but indirectly, and after much pain and loss, I thank Enron for opening my eyes to the fraud seven years ago. Amazing how good things happen in a convoluted and sometimes invisible way.

[Nay]

498. I feel yer pain. I also an reading and posting a lot less because, just

in the 7 years I've been here, I've seen actual Dems accept so much RW swill that I now understand why the non-left part of the country is basically in Hitler's lap.

Then we have Obama, whom I cheerfully voted for, who has turned out to be fine with lots of Bush's shit.

No amount of me banging my head against the wall will fix this, so I do a lot more gardening, reading, walking and planning my retirement escape.

[bananas]

700. I feel it too - but keep posting. nt

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Selatius]

30. You want to move Obama left? You need a movement independent of Obama.

You do it like Martin Luther King did. You remain independent and apply pressure on the entire establishment regardless if the dude has a D or an R behind his name, but above all, you don't shut up your message simply because there is a D in the White House and not an R. Take the anti-war movement. Oh, so we all stop protesting now because Obama is in the White House? And just how many thousands of soldiers are still garrisoning Iraq? That's one example. When organizations like Moveon.org punted on the issue of protesting Obama on his stand on the war in Iraq because they were afraid of losing access to Obama, I knew the gig was up.

[boston bean]

34. +1

[glitch]

101. Absolutely agreed.

Still a member of the bite-me wing of the Democratic Party, but I am ready to move off-leash.

[G_j]

188. yes

I agree with you

[merh]

192. wish this was an OP, I'd recommend it.

:thumbsup:

[Radical Activist]

289. It also takes more than being stuck in a rut

of always criticizing the President all the time like the left has needed to do for the last 8-30 years. I wish I saw something more sophisticated than, "Obama did something so I better belittle it from the left no matter what it is" while also underplaying his progressive accomplishments. Constantly pushing the meme that Obama will always be a disappointment spreads fatigue and cynicism that doesn't help build a movement.

Many on the left like to mock Obama's message of Hope and adopting Cesar Chavez' slogan but Obama understands something about organizing that's obviously lost on people who push nothing but cynicism and disappointment.

[liberation]

502. You have to pick and choose dude...

either you are a radical who understands what El Che's message and actions were. Or you are an apologist for milquetoast marketing driven approaches to politics.

Otherwise, your message given your screen name and avatar looks a bit logically dissonant.

Cheers.

[William Z. Foster]

691. that is so malicious and inaccurate

You just maligned a lot of people, and the entire left while you were at it. You made the assertions. Back them up.

What is this new phenomenon? A person merely declares themselves to be "left" and then feels free to attack the left and promote right wing positions. Very strange. Reminds me of born-agains for whom being a Christian is merely a matter of saying they are, and they then proceed to act and speak in very un-Christian ways.

I don't know what sort of leftist a person could possibly be, and yet say that the left is stuck in a rut of always criticizing everything and is underplaying Obama's progressive accomplishments.

"Constantly pushing the meme that Obama will always be a disappointment spreads fatigue and cynicism that doesn't help build a movement."

WTF? I mean, seriously. What does that even mean? I have never heard anyone ever doing this, nor can I see how it spreads fatigue and cynicism - except with you maybe, which may not be a bad thing for the rest of us - nor how that would "not help build a movement."

[defendandprotect]

339. And that has always been what Howard Zinn has advised . . . change from outside gov't....

As we can see it works very well for the T-baggers . . .

not so much for anti-war demonstrators . . .

our "free press" is a bit confused???

:evilgrin:

[rhett o rick]

558. So what organization, independent of the parties do you recommend? nm

[leftstreet]

648. +1

[Individualist]

225. +1

[liberalmike27]

232. Yea I've Been Pretty Disgusted

With the centrism of Obama, wars, guantanamo, etc...

I wish he's shake those Clintonistas off, like a dog would shake off so many drops of water, and start doing some liberal things that they really will get pissed about. They are already calling this centrism "a hard turn to the left". Might as well spin the wheel.

Get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, cut the Pentagon budget to about 100 Billion, increase education funding, slap a 90 percent tax on "earnings" above 4 million, including any and all capital gains until both wars are over, and the debt is paid off.

The only thing I was waivering on is Immigration, and I've about decided that it isn't worth it to be econoimcally against Mexicans, when we have the associated hatreds working on our population. Like fear, it doesn't seem to do good things, and pollutes the brain.

And of course we need a living wage, full-employment, and a containerized economy. If you want free trade, allow companies to open factories, where China sells products to Chinese people, or Mexicans sell stuff to Mexico. If they don't have enough people with money to do that, then they need to make adjustments in their own systems.

[defendandprotect]

351. That's the job of MSM and right wing . . . to make you feel "pretty disgusted" . . .

:o

What can we have DLC/Rahm Emmanuel in the White House at the president's ear --

and working on moving the party to the right, breeding more blue dog puppies --

and expect anything different?

It would be nuts to antagonize the immigration system -- we need to take steps to

create jobs in Mexico -- when Mexico stops funding our debt that's what they should

be doing. But that doesn't suit the agenda of the right wing which wants cheap labor.

Not only to exploit globally, but right here in America!

What are the numbers now of illegals? 11 million? Imagine trying to deport them?

We have to overturn the trade agreements --

and Reagan/Bush tax cuts on the elites/corporations --



:)

[MissDeeds]

268. Agree completely

It's one disappointment after another. Obama seems hell-bent on placating the right and avoiding confrontation with them at all costs. Maybe he should realize they aren't the ones who put him in office. But, at this rate, maybe they will next time.

[defendandprotect]

Agree with you . . . and the battle was lost at the top of the fight . . .

in not permitting single payer to be mentioned or to even be at the

Baucus table!!

This was one of our best opportunities to get Medicare for all --

"You can only really be betrayed by those closest to you" -- never truer!!

[bkozumplik]

345. well said /nt

[DesertFlower]

379. speaking of health care.

i posted this yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8308340

yes. i'm a lefty.

[PassingFair]

529. What? You have COMPLAINTS regarding that "landmark legislation"???

Your ideological purity disgusts me!

Do I need this:

:sarcasm:

[certainot]

630. the left gives the right a total free speech free ride from 1000 radio stations

and then whines about their reps performance.

until the left starts picketing those main limbaugh/hannity stations and boycotting or at least complaining about it i don't think collectively it can get other than a fucking big F in the 'get their back" dept

evaluating dem performance without accounting for the right's most important (and invisible) political weapon is plain silly but everyone does it, preferring to listen to a scratched manilow CD from under the seat than find out what the GOP is pushing out limbaugh and hannitys ass to 50 million people. the perfect weapon because they find out later when they see it on the sunday shows or on the senate floor or fox a week later when it the same irrational BS becomes the 'center' merely because of all the coordinated UNCONTESTED repetition.

so even the public option is impossible, needing a supermajority, and obama has to compromise- i wonder why

did any progressives even notice when limbaugh said 'obama's head needs to roll' ...? (sept 10, 2010) much less complain to their local limbaugh station...

[No Elephants]

728. Um, it is the left who picket and boycott those stations and their sponsors.

As far as your implication that the left is indifferent when Obama's physical safety is threatened, implicitly or otherwise, you're a LIAR.

If you want to identify yourself with the right, fine. But, don't distort reality, play victim and demonize the left the way that repukes do. Not on a Democratic message board.

If the owners of this board decide only the center right is welcome here, fine, I'll move on, along with most of the posters on this thread. Unless and until that happens, I note that posters here, such as you, are not supposed to trash any sub-group of the members of the Democratic Party who post here, such as "the left."

If you look at this thread, you'll see the left is a sub-group of the members of the Democratic Party who post here. And just in case you don't get it, implying that the left is fine with murder is trashing the left. So, you're breaking board rules.

And, given that this thread is for posting by the left posters of DU, I'm guessing this is by far not your first time, nor will it be your last. Here's hoping you get what you deserve for breaking board rules.

By the way, certainot, WHY DO YOU HIDE YOUR PROFILE?

[certainot]

786. what are you talking about?

the COLLECTIVE left, dems, liberals, progressives, is indifferent when it comes to talk radio.

collectively it ignores the right's most effective weapon as it trashes their candidates and causes on a daily nationwide basis and then wonder why they keep getting punked and their reps aren't sticking their necks out far enough. the left occasionally goes after a quote from the main blowhards but much of it's analysis is done in a talk radio vacuum, usually starting after the talk radio established messaging and framing and the swiftboating becomes acceptable in the mainstream- too late.

i have only ever heard of one organized picketing of a radio station. i know that a few people actively call RW radio and complain to local sponsors. my point is that as long as the left pays lip service to the right wing radio monopoly it's going to keep playing catch-up and losing.

the whining i keep seeing from people who expect super obama and think all they have to do is vote and blog is pitiful. talk of messaging by the left is naive as long as it ignores talk radio. truth and common sense and hope that it comes through are about all the left has if it ignores talk radio.

it is as if the right has put up a soapbox on every corner of the country to scream liberals mothers are whores and fathers are thieves and the left collectively, in one of the biggest political mistakes in history plugs in another CD, votes, and blogs.

if you want to know what the GOP is going to do tomorrow, catch a few minutes of RW talk radio today, because that's where most of the framing and messaging starts, that's why we don't have a public option, why we are in iraq, that's why dems need supermajorities, and that's why obama has to pick stealth supremes instead of openly liberal ones.

why do you want my profile, if i have one?

[certainot]

787. PS

Anti war. Anti torture, Pro Union, Pro Choice, Anti Unitary Executive, Pro Consitution balance of powers....

all those issues and more including single payer and public option, the collective left gets beat with an invisible political 2x4 on a regular basis on RW talk radio and they get a free speech free ride.

i may have jumped severe, but i repeat, expecting dem reps and obama to get all progressive while practically ignoring the right wing radio stations that lie about them all day is dumb. and the left collectively ignores right wing radio.

[Donnachaidh]

679. +1000 n/t

[amborin]

782. +1000

you and many others!

[scubadude]

823. Many Dems are the Republican defined version.

The ones who look through glasses that have been painted rose colored by the Republicans for the last 40 or more years. They buy the "liberal is bag" mantra. They buy the "the country moved too far liberal bunk" they buy that the "Liberal media" is liberal, when it is run by a bunch of Republican corporatist whores.

You can still be a liberal and watch the Democratic party move past you on it's way to the right.

Hey, maybe we should make up a new party, the Left Wing Independents. Kinda the anti-teabaggers. We want more liberal representation. Yeah!

How's that sound to you?

Scuba

[boston bean]

12. Checkin in...

Now, I await the "reclamation liberals" to enter this thread.

Question is though, how can they reclaim something they never were??

[CBR]

16. You do not get to decide who was "really" liberal and who was

not or is not. I think most of us on DU are quite liberal outside of this internet message board bubble -- like more liberal than 98% of the population. Get serious.

[boston bean]

17. Did the point of my post get lost on you or something. It is the reclamation liberals

who are deciding who are liberals and who are not.

You get serious!

[CBR]

22. "how can they reclaim something they never were" .... nt

[boston bean]

29. "Reclamation liberals" have made the distinction.

Why don't you get honest with yourself.

[RainDog]

41. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8308540&mesg_id=8309567

[CBR]

86. It seems that everyone is trying to decide who is liberal and

who is not. This whole thread is premised on that distinction.

[YOY]

72. You cannot argue with Poli-Sci 101.

If one does not hold general political beliefs that fall on the left side of the political spectrum one does not have the right to call themselves "liberal" or "progressive".

and One does...very obnoxiously and repetitively.

It's the old RW tactic of pushing the perceived compass further to the right than it is.

The same could be said of many political philosophies...Liberatianism, Collectivism, Totalitarianism, Conservatism...

It's like someone saying they are taking back the facist movement if their actions and words have always portrayed them as a 1960s Woodstock hippie.

[CBR]

84. We are talking about members of DU -- they fall on the left

side of the political spectrum.

I suggest members on here take Public Policy 101 -- how you get shit done.

BTW I teach a political ideologies section at a university -- so no need to lay it out for me. I just wish there was not a battle on here about who is really liberal. For the most part, we are working towards the same things.

[sabrina 1]

318. We've been listening to 'how to get shit done' from the so-called

experts for about five years now. And what we got is what we now have, which is a center-right corporate administration which has flip-flopped on every major issue that got them elected in the first place.

Not to mention that this 'shit' we got done, isn't what the majority of the American people want. They wanted a PO eg, by overwhelming majorities. They did not want Wall St. bailed out and they do not want forever war.

What you really mean by 'getting shit done' is 'getting what Corporate America wants done'.

Now we've done that. After eight years of Bush which kept the 'left' believing that all they needed was a democratic majority to get some 'real shit' done, we have found out that we played along and got very little done, for the American people. We were punked, so be it. But not anymore.

So, with that out of the way, we can and will work to get rid of the Blue Dogs/DLCers from the party and start supporting real Liberal Democrats. Because the power of the people is in Congress. And the only way to reign in the WH is to have enough people in Congress to stop them from doing things like Assassinating people, approving of Military Commissions trials of tortured child soldiers, promoting Offshore Drilling, passing Health Insurance Bills that transfer public funds to Private industry, demonizing teachers etc. etc. the list grows every day.

THIS is what we got by doing things YOUR way. Don't even bother with the 'getting shit done in DC' anymore. We were supposed to CHANGE how things got done in DC. We are now wide awake and won't be falling for that BS anymore. The DLC will have to work on a different strategy for this coming election. We are ALL political experts now. I notice how they turn to the 'left' when an election is coming up. Well, they better have something to offer, including some apologies would be nice, although who would believe them? Because this time an awful lot of people will vote their consciences. We haven't tried that for a long time. Time to give it a try.

[Enthusiast]

520. Oh baby!

Right the fuck on!

[kenfrequed]

522. a big +1

I thought something similar but would have been a hell of a lot less diplomatic about it.

Kudos

[Hardrada]

560. Hear! Hear!

anarcho-surrealist checking in!

[CBR]

584. No that is not what I mean re: Corporate America. This is the type

of stuff that is annoying. "Do not agree with me" = Corporate stooge --> not true. I think neoliberalism is insidious. I also think it is not going to change overnight or, probably, in my lifetime (I am 29). Things in DC are changing -- having worked with government contracts, things are changing. Do I want, in my heart of hearts, the same things you do? I am 100% sure the answer is yes.

[laughingliberal]

682. +10,000 nt

[lafayettelonewolf]

735. Oh yeah...

We had dealt with this crap from the "Dumbass Leadership Committee" for HOW LONG? Help me out here, people! Too bad Indiana's a "Conservative State".

[Raineyb]

569. You write as though by definition being on this board makes one left of center.

And it is rather painfully obvious that such an assumption is erroneous.

[CBR]

583. My guess -- 98% of DUers are more liberal than 98% of the general

population. Not by definition but by observation. Purely speculative, of course, but I do think that being in the DU bubble insulates members from the rhetoric outside. My husband, who is regularly called a "left wing radical", would be considered DLC on DU. That is what I mean.

[Raineyb]

588. Left and right are not relative positions.

The center has been pulled so far to the right that what's been passing for left is often not that at all. And based on what's actually posted 98% is quite the assertion. One based on an erroneous assumption at that.

[William Z. Foster]

699. far from the truth

On issues of economics and power, 70% of the public is to the left of DU. I think that is a function of DU membership being largely from the upper 10% income bracket, and also because the divide in the country is not between Democrat and Republican but rather between the haves and the have-nots. That was also historically the divide between the right ad the left. Republican versus Democrat and liberal versus conservative has become largely a matter of two factions of the haves engaged in a petty partisan feud that has little relevance to the general population.

Politics has always been about economics and power - who does and who does not have access to resources and why and how. The upscale people who dominate both parties try to obscure that and confuse people.

The very fact that people here think that DU is far left tells us how far to the right it actually is.

[William Z. Foster]

696. right

And I painted a number "11" on the dial of my amp, so it must be louder than yours is. Yours only goes up to "10."

There is no battle here that I can see about "who is really liberal" except from people like you. When someone posts a left wing opinion, people are all over it and attack the person, then respond with some obvious right wing position and demand that their right wing position be seen as "liberal" and not be refuted, because they "are" a "liberal."

Do you think that once a person merely says they are left wing, that they are then free to promote right wing ideas and not be challenged on those? That is what happens. That is what people demand - that if they call themselves a leftist they should be able to spread right wing ideas and not have those ideas be challenged. And then when people do challenge their right wing positions, they start this "what is a real liberal and who is to decide?" stuff, as you just have.

This is leading to a very odd situation - all sorts of right wing ideas: regressive taxation, privatization, anti-Labor, opposition to public education, racism, sexism are to be seen as properly "leftist" merely because the person spreading those ideas claims to be on the left, and defies everyone to "prove" otherwise. Meanwhile, every traditional left wing position is under assault and the people expressing them are treated as though they were traitors to the cause by the same people spreading the right wing ideas. But then should anyone say "seems that the Democratic party is moving to the right" then THEY get attacked. Crazy.

[saracat]

730. What a great summary! +1000

[liberation]

505. Oh, the sweet irony of your post validating the point of the poster you were replying to...

[rosesaylavee]

14. Here!

:kick:

Not as often as I used to be but read more than post is my current status.

[conscious evolution]

15. I'm still here

though I have to wonder why some days.
Especially after Will Pitt got TSed.

[druidity33]

39. wow... didn't realize that.

Did he lose his temper?

Too bad, i appreciated his voice (as well as a fellow Bay Stater)... he will be missed. :(

[Selatius]

43. That's news to me, but I stopped posting after a while. What got him tombstoned? nt

[patrice]

77. If the transcription I saw was true, he threatened to meet someone and to fight. He was very angry.

[defendandprotect]

674. What was the issue/thread/debate about?

[patrice]

686. I didn't see that, only an excerpt of Will's post from it. nt

[intheflow]

181. Whoa! That's big news.

This must have just happened, I could swear I saw one of his essays atop the GP in the last week or so.

[progressoid]

277. Whaaaaa?

:wow:

What the hell?

[UpInArms]

18. me ... checking in ...

waiting for change

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

19. You are letting Them define us. I'm a Liberal and haven't changed, my party went to the right.

[polichick]

33. It's true - the party has been destroyed by DLC/New (imo fake and/or chickenshit) Dems. nt

[defendandprotect]

332. +1000% . . .

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

38. Completely concur.

Who knew that after all those debates we would end up with Romneycare?

The New Democrats deliver Republican policies more sucessfully than any Republican administration could ever hope to under the guise of being "pragmatic" and "bi-partisan". I wish they would be more bi-partisan with the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

[hootinholler]

63. When single payer was taken off the table...

What else would we end up with?

-Hoot

[Melissa G]

159. amen to that!

single payer lib here. peacenik :hi:

[Radical Activist]

295. When was it ever on the table?

I remember two of the big forums where Obama explained what a single-payer system is. He described it in very positive, clear ways. At those two events he did more to spread understanding and support for single payer than that the left has done in years.
It's the job of the progressive movement to build support for single payer. Blaming Obama for not supporting a plan that has almost zero public understanding or support is a cop-out.

[hootinholler]

308. Well HR676 had like 70 co-sponsors

Teddy wanted medicare for all and had some support in the Senate. Maybe it didn't make it onto the table, but somebody effectively prevented it from landing on the table. I remember hearing it was to be scored by the CBO and then it just fell off the edge of the planet.

-Hoot

[Radical Activist]

325. You're talking the DC game.

What has the left done to effectively build wide public support and understanding of single payer? Not much. Complaining about Obama not supporting it isn't a strategy.

[defendandprotect]

354. Exactly . . . and if we were waiting for Dems to call us out to rally for Medicare for all...

we waited in vain --

No Dem and no leftwing political organization called us out to demonstrate for

Single Payer -- I make an exception here for some of the very active liberal

organizations which run frequent rallies and include many issues.

Have to agree, however, that the Repugs have done a Titanic amount of damage to

democracy, people's government -- and this will be a long battle.

[Radical Activist]

789. I'm not a big fan of single payer anyway, unless

there's also the alternative option of member-owned, non-profit insurance co-ops. I don't want the next George W. Bush who comes along to be in charge of monkeying around with my medical coverage. Do you?

I'm a fan of decentralized economies and decentralized, democratic control. You can achieve that better and give people more options through a member-owned co-op that allows people to vote on the board of directors than you can with a big brother single-payer system. So I don't see a single player plan as the holy grail of progressive achievement that it's often portrayed as.

I'm disappointed that the single-minded orthodoxy about single-payer and the public option (who decided the public option was the most important thing anyway?) is stopping people from seeing the benefits of the member owned co-op system that the health care bill sets the stage for. Plus, didn't it give states the option of setting up single payer? So, we have a path to progress despite the apocalyptic talk of insurance industry sell outs.

As I pointed out in other threads, focusing solely on the negative while intentionally ignoring any positives is no different than what Rush and Glenn Beck do. It's not intellectually honest or productive.

[hootinholler]

371. I might be, but you're talking like the left has a strong presence in the media

We both know that we don't have strong leadership and nothing in the media.

So do you have a suggestion about how to be more effective in getting our positions heard?

-Hoot

[Radical Activist]

788. I think we're off to a good start.

First, we have to give up on believing 90% of the corporate media. It only gives people a distorted, inaccurate world view. I think we have to use the net to do a better job of creating our own framing and holding the press accountable in the same way the right does with talk radio.

Beyond that, there are some real structural failings on the left that I don't see being resolved without a lot of money. Its really embarrassing that there's no organized left wing equivalent of the tea party. It could be Organizing for America but much of the left is too worried about being pure and righteous to use that organization as a lever to pressure Obama on specific issues.

Frankly, I think the only long term hope for the left is for the baby boomers to step aside from leadership and take all of their baggage and dysfunction with them. The rising generation is already proving to be more politically adept and effective so that gives me hope.

[defendandprotect]

357. Obama, Pelosi, Baucus . . . as far as I know, they are the table minders . . . ???

[No Elephants]

459. Hr 676 ultimate had more sponsors than 70. However, it never got as far as the CBO.

So, I'm wondering how serious those sponsors were.

[No Elephants]

436. You're right. It was never on the table. Obama took it off the table before he even got elected.

I voted for him anyway, though.

He campaigned on no single payer. (According to Obama, single payer wasn't right for America because we have "all these legacy plans." He also campaigned on public option and no mandates. He left single payer off the table, threw public option after it and returned mandates to the table.

BTW, this is not the "defend Obama" thread, or even the "debate about Obama" thread. Everything isn't about Obama.

[No Elephants]

420. Self Delete.

[newspeak]

183. Right on!!!!

"New Democrats deliver Republican policies more successfully than any Republican." I was against Poppy's NAFTA, and was relieved that Clinton was elected--wow, what a surprise that it passed--who could have believed it? Bernie Sanders and the late honorable Wellstone are who I admire. I am a Democratic Socialist as my grandfather before me.

[PSzymeczek]

438. I'm a Democratic Socialist, as well.

Dues-paying member of DSA
http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

[tomg]

451. Same here. DSA. nt

[loudsue]

281. It's been happening since Clinton. Republican policies delivered under a Dem president

Nafta, Military Commissions Act, DADT, etc.

If it walks like a duck...

[Nikki Stone1]

407. Many of us did. And we kept trying to tell you

:grr:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

779. You stated it beautifully. In the last few years I have questioned if the movers

and shakers aren't just Republicans in Democrats' clothing, period. Pretending all along to be Democrats. Whatever the case it may be, we have 2 parties that are opposames. They might appear to be different (Dems a bit more kinder and gentler) but in the end, when it comes to the truly important issues, they work in unison. The fact that they appear contentious with one another is an act to make it appear as if there are 2 parties. Take for instance the Republicans bitching about the "Republican" health insurance scheme. They have exactly what they want without voting for it, can complain to appear different and give their corporate masters exactly what they wanted.

We are so screwed. :cry:

[Echo In Light]

20. Yes, here

[jotsy]

23. That list sounds like me!

[AnOhioan]

24. Still here...but finidng other sites more palatable

[lib_wit_it]

537. Such as? I'm looking for change.

[No Elephants]

726. Wow! How cool is that

President? (Bet you thought I was going to say "car.")

Born to privilege, old and crippled and still head and shoulders above anyone else, except maybe Truman.

[nradisic]

25. Check...

Pitchforks at the ready...

[City Lights]

26. Checking in.

:hi:

[mfcorey1]

27. Present!

[polichick]

31. True blue liberal here - I'll add environmental protection to your list. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. I'll add pro traditional public schools

and put me in that group! :hi:

[Ishoutandscream2]

204. +1

[PVnRT]

36. Technically, yes

I don't really check in here much anymore.

[BzaDem]

37. I believe that almost everyone here agrees with all of those positions

with the possible exception of "anti war," depending on how you define it. (Most here I think would be opposed to the current wars, but some would not necessarily be opposed to war in all possible circumstances).

I know very few (if any) here who are pro-torture, anti-union, pro-life, pro-unitary-executive and/or anti-constitution-balance-of-powers.

[Echo In Light]

45. I wouldn't assume that at all. Language gives people away, and DU has some diehard haters on board

When it's obvious that some enjoy the hating/hatred, well, I certainly don't automatically assume that just b/c they're posting here they're "liberal." I've never known a liberal/lefty characteristic/trait to be the enjoyment of mocking/harassing others - that's something that RWers get off on

[muffin1]

49. Really?

I've seen some pro-torture posts, and I've argued on some anti-choice threads. And while I don't know how many are actually pro-war in general, I've seen people defending us still being in these two particular wars - now that Obama, and not Bush, is in office.

And there are way too many people saying equal rights for GLBTers will have to wait until 'more important things' are done. And worse, that the GLBTers are whiners.

[laughingliberal]

707. I've seen a lot of anti-union posting here....

... especially a lot of anti-teacher, anti-public schools postings. It's disturbing.

[JHB]

40. I usually describe myself as "left libertarian", but I think I'm in the tent...

...although I might get into an argument over this or that. No particular beefs with what you have listed, though.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

42. Also need to add " REAL healthcare reform"

and not the uniquely American corporatist piece of crap that was passed. Healthcare will be just as big an issue in future elections since the insurance companies and cost WERE NOT reined in. They were just given a few more bites at the apple until we're all bankrupt, uncovered or dead.

[Echo In Light]

46. +1000

[glitch]

113. Well said, at at taxpayer expense, IOW another bailout.

"They were just given a few more bites at the apple until we're all bankrupt, uncovered or dead."

[MelissaB]

44. Present!

[Bettie]

47. I believe in all of those things too....

I didnt' realize that made me all that left wing though. All of those things just seem like the kind and human things to believe.

[stray cat]

48. I hope all the true progressives actually vote in 2010 and 2012

and don't throw the elections to the GOP

[pmorlan1]

600. I too hope true progressives vote in 2010 and 2012...

But I hope they don't fall for scare tactics about throwing elections to the GOP. I hope they all vote for Independent candidates when available and reject both of our corporate controlled Parties. I hope they are as sick as I am of being "Played" by the Democratic Party. They want our money and our votes and then they give us the shaft. Goodbye to all of that. I will no longer support a Party that caters to the plutocrats.

[Prism]

50. I'm not a left-wing liberal

But the modern Democratic party seems to think I am.

Not sure when that happened.

I'm guessing January 2009ish.

[No Elephants]

482. The pull to the right began after the Presidential election of 1972.

Many of us did not know about it until much more recently, though, because it was gradual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

And, in 1980, the DNC asked Democrats to see if they couldn't figure out a way to get some corporate donations, like the RNC and the Republicans were getting.

The rest is history, literally and figuratively.



What is the result? Whereas Democrats held Congress for decades after FDR, the shift to the right means voters have a choice between center right and far right. So, they're just getting disgusted and voting out incumbents.

Have we won a lot more Presidential elections since 1972 than we won before 1972? Not really.

IOW, IMO, the "strategy" cost Democrats. Yet, the conventional wisdom is that candidates who are not center right can't win and neither can populist policies. Go figure.

[ipaint]

51. Here.

Solidly "leftist"...


Thomas Paine advocated a basic income guarantee to all US citizens as compensation for "loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property"

"I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective — the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income." Martin Luther King

[oldlib]

52. I'm a Liberal.

I agree with the items that you listed and even more.

[No Elephants]

493. Welcome to DU, LLC.

[Evasporque]

53. hey

[CTyankee]

54. I have always been Left in my long life and I have been proven to be correct

on issues since I took up the anti-war movement during Vietnam. I call myself a Liberal Progressive and I know that's redundant but I like both titles and claim them both...

[Terry in Austin]

230. Yeah - what yankee said!

Another peacenik here. Vindicated and kinda bummed, but vindicated.

[CTyankee]

523. god, don't you get to where you HATE to be right all the time?

I do, but honestly, I HAVE been right...Nixon was a crook, Reagan was a liar, Clinton was wrong on Rwanda, DADT and DOMA and now admits it, Bush lied and got us into an immoral and unnecessary war in Iraq, climate change IS a HUGE problem, offshore drilling for oil is a disaster, the list goes on and on...

I don't know what's worse: being proven wrong or being proven right but feeling helpless to do anything about it...

[arendt]

55. Still lurking, lerkfish. n/t

[jules1962]

59. Present!

[Jokerman]

56. Here!

[elocs]

57. What exactly defines "left wing"?

I am a Democrat, at least until there is some kind of loyalty oath or exact litmus test required to be one.

[YOY]

73. Take the test. It's based off of simple political science and doesn't move with time.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[Dappleganger]

150. Thanks, hadn't taken that one.

Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -8.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.72

[Codeine]

195. Cute little test.

Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -8.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.36

[YOY]

198. Not really mine though...

It's been around a while.

:shrug:

[ChiciB1]

282. Taken The Test Before & This Time It Stated Almost EXACTLY What

it did about a year ago! On par with Mandela & the Dahli Lama!

[GinaMaria]

331. Progressive meaning Very Liberal is how I label myself

Economic Left/Right: -8.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.69

Farther left than both Mandela and the Dahli Lama!

[ChiciB1]

785. Oh, I'm Further Left Than Those Two Also, Was Just Using The Names

as a reference rather than using the numbers. Those not taking the test may not understand the numbers! I KNOW I'm a Liberal, and really don't need a test to prove it, still the test IS interesting!

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

408. You and I are pretty close

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.41

[bkozumplik]

554. aw man, you guys beat me

Economic Left/Right: -6.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.03

thats crap.

[redqueen]

772. Yep.

-8, -7.38 here.

[lib_wit_it]

556. Checking in as Economic Left/Right: -8.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.85

Only recently realized how politically uninformed I'd been (thought Clinton was pretty much on my side!) and disappointed to often have that naiveté met with ridicule rather than enlightenment here.

We, myself included, disparage the general population for their political ignorance, but the more I learn, the more I see that it could really be a full-time job to become and remain a well-informed citizen.

Especially with the M$M giving the impression that I'm apparently some sort of extreme radical and that the Tea-baggers are reasonable folks who represent the mainstream and with Mitch McConnell constantly telling me what "The American people want," which never seems to be what any of my friends or I want.

I am tempted to tune back out.

[martymar64]

639. Here's mine

My political compass
Economic Left/Right: -9.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.18

[Pab Sungenis]

58. Hello.

Finding it harder and harder to stick around, but hope springs eternal.

[DefenseLawyer]

60. Count me in on those.

I'll throw in Pro National Health Service, Anti War on Drugs, Anti Death Penalty and Anti Mandatory Minimums and Anti Prison Industrial Complex.

[truedelphi]

440. + 1. n/t

[DRoseDARs]

61. I wish Kucinich was my rep. Instead, I have assclown Ensign and "Dude, where's my spine?" Reid.

Nevada has three Reps in the House, and the two Dems rep Las Vegas and the southern tip of the state while the assclown Dean Heller (R-Naturally) reps the whole of the rest of the state. I live in Reno so yay me, I'm 0-and-3. :-/

[tilsammans]

62. Here!

Sick and tired of Government By Corporatism. :mad:

[hootinholler]

64. Um there's a few of us left. n/t

[leveymg]

65. "My novel, 1984, is NOT intended as an attack on Socialism or on the British Labour Party (of

which I am a supporter), but as a show-up of the perversions . . . which have already been partly realized in Communism and Fascism. . . . The scene of the book is laid in Britain in order to emphasize that the English-speaking races are not innately better than anyone else, and that totalitarianism, if not fought against, could triumph anywhere."

— 0rwell, Collected Essays

[zipplewrath]

66. Actually, more than you might imagine

My impression is that there are a bunch lurking around here. There is the definite DLC crowd that can be very vocal. But if you look at what tends to make the greatest page, in the end it tends to be some of the more left leaning stuff. Even some of the more centrist stuff on there ends up with alot of left leaning commentary. I'd dare say, if required to line up, the majority would be on the left side of the line.

[YOY]

67. Check.

n.t.

[patrice]

68. I'm still here, I think.

[unc70]

69. Over near Helen Thomas, in the Wellstone section

Hope to eventually meet Helen; knew him back when we were in college.

Even so, I have been called a puma, racist, freep, birther, etc. over recent months, with some threatening to send me a pizza.

[DFW]

89. Helen has been a friend for 40 years

If you're in DC or near there, I can introduce you. I'm mostly in Germany or TX, but my brother still
lives near DC, and we always go out to dinner with Helen or visit her at her home when I'm in DC.

[mmonk]

71. Reporting in.

[NJmaverick]

74. I am a liberal but I don't agree with all of your positions

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

119. ever heard of the Johari window?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window

[KoKo]

145. Good One!

Describes it perfectly...How we see ourselves...is it how they see us?

[Ignis]

302. Spot on.

:thumbsup:

[mikelgb]

133. i knew you would be here

[Moochy]

169. Like a Neo-liberal Moth to Flame

[Dogtown]

148. What positions do you not agree with, NJm?

We *really* want to know.

[rudy23]

170. delete--posted in wrong spot

[Vinnie From Indy]

171. LOL!

A "liberal" what is the real question. Cheers!

[Peacetrain]

175. Wow, you apparently need not apply..

Seems there is a means test you are failing.. whew

edit to add! :sarcasm:

[freddie mertz]

577. Like supporting liberal policies once in a while?

O8) B-) :evilgrin: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :spray: :dilemma:

[Name removed]

197. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

203. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Codeine]

200. Evidently you've failed some ideological purity test. nt

[rudy23]

208. Not cheering on a Democratic board when Obama "angers the left" would be one. n/t

[YOY]

217. Not to mention agreeing with Rahm when he called the left "retarded"

and generally using the left when he is able to rile us for support and insulting us when we wish to have campaign promises fulfilled.

And many many many other examples...

[laughingliberal]

220. +1 nt

[Name removed]

743. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YOY]

758. Regardless of whether I am quoting or misquoting anyone. When it was reported X agreed with it.

But hey...fuck me for judging another based on his actions and words.

I'm fighting RW crap...didn't you notice?

Oh what do I care? Any post remotely discussing the blatantly obvious regarding X gets deleted as a "personal attack".

[freddie mertz]

578. Evidently!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :nuke:

[grahamhgreen]

317. Maybe you're more centrist?

[earth mom]

422. Maybe that should tell you something about where you & Obama really stand politically.

Or maybe you like living in denial.

[lib_wit_it]

557. Fantastic sign. Didn't see that in the M$M. Too much elitist spelling, I suppose.

[earth mom]

791. Here's the thread I got it from. I think everyone on DU should put it in their signature.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8314991

[rhett o rick]

563. You are allowed to post in DU. That doesnt make you liberal. nm

[freddie mertz]

576. Oh brother!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :yoiks: :nuke:

[Ignis]

651. Only in America.

[tekisui]

710. Really? Which ones don't you agree with?

[donco6]

713. LOL!

You crack me up!

[mochajava666]

766. Liberal? Really? In what possible way?

To paraphrase Senator Lloyd Benston:

Sir, I served with Liberals, I know Liberals, Liberals are friends of mine. Sir, you're no Liberal.

[Ignis]

809. Gosh, you got a TON of deleted messages in response.

I wonder why so many people feel so very strongly about your Liberal street cred.

Hmm, I wonder. :freak:

[CLANG]

75. About as left as you can get

[MadHound]

76. Hey there,

Still around, still left.

[NorthCarolina]

78. Check, and double check! n/t

[WeDidIt]

79. Checking in

Left wing liberal here.

[Name removed]

254. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nashville_brook]

335. zing...!

:evilgrin:

[WeDidIt]

485. You do not get to say who is and who is not a liberal

I will not allow you to claim the end all be all of what is and what is liberal.

Demanding ideological purity is NOT a Progressive Value. It is the HEIGHT of Regressive values.

[PassingFair]

531. Do we get to put it up for a vote?

No one is demanding ideological purity from anyone.

[WeDidIt]

545. No

IT is not up for debate.

And ideological purity has been demanded on multiple occasions, in this very thread.

[freddie mertz]

580. LOL.

Ironic. :rofl:

[freddie mertz]

579. Oh brother, where are thou?

:rofl:

[Altoid_Cyclist]

81. I'm still here but the fatigue grows by the week.

There are more and more days that I just read the posts and say nothing.

There are so many great people here that I am 100% addicted to coming here every day, but I'm hearing less and less from some of the people here that I really respect. Even if I didn't always agree with all of their ideas or comments, they made me think. They were respectful in their arguments and you appreciated their ability to disagree without belittling you. That is why I love this place.

Now, it's just too much instant vitriol and name calling from some people that it just really does depress and fatigue me some days.

Maybe it's just me, but I actually enjoy being shown when and why I'm wrong if I am able to learn something that I didn't know. I'm no Stephen Hawking, but I'm no idiot either. Please, educate me when necessary. However, don't insist on doing it with as much malice as some of the things that I've seen here.

:hug:

[mod mom]

83. Me and add equal protection to the mix.

Crazy notion isn't it, everyone treated fairly under the law?

Guess some Dems think political capital trumps equal protection from prosecution. If you thought political prosections just happened under * read hissyspit's post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8308581

75 former State Attorneys General of both parties have cried foul:

Review of Governor’s Conviction Sought

By JOHN SCHWARTZ and CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: April 21, 2009
Less than a month after the Justice Department asked a judge to drop the case against former Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska because of prosecutorial misconduct, 75 former state attorneys general from both parties have urged Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. to conduct a similar investigation of the prosecution of former Gov. Don Siegelman of Alabama, who was convicted nearly three years ago on bribery and corruption charges.


In a letter to Mr. Holder, the attorneys general said Mr. Siegelman’s defense lawyers had raised “gravely troublesome facts” about his prosecution that raise questions about the fairness and due process of the trial.

“We believe that if prosecutorial misconduct is found, as in the case of Senator Ted Stevens, then dismissal should follow in this case as well,” the group said in the letter, which was organized by Robert Abrams, a former attorney general of New York.

Lawyers for Mr. Siegelman, a Democrat, have long accused the Justice Department under President George W. Bush of conducting a politically motivated prosecution that they say was filled with irregularities, including a failure to turn over pertinent information to the defense team.

-snip
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/22justice.html

[havocmom]

128. Yes, equal protection would be a good guide

Must comb this thread for self proclaimed liberals who have accused other DUers of whining because they didn't get a pony when what they were advocating was EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW becoming a priority of the DEM administration most of us worked very hard to put into office.

[salguine]

85. Lots of dissatisfaction with Obama here. I see this thread getting locked real soon.

[Lerkfish]

105. really? I guess you see what you want to see. I'm talking policy and political position only

[xiamiam]

87. checking in..glad to see y'all still here..nt

[Love Bug]

88. Hell, I'm so Left I walk like a crab

When I walk I list to the left like a drunken crab!

[patrice]

99. !

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

107. LOL! good one.

[depakid]

90. Still supporting traditional Democratic values- even when elements of the party don't

[cornermouse]

91. Only here occasionally any more.

[cornermouse]

729. My position on the issues has never changed.

And yet somehow I went from being considered a standard garden variety democrat to being considered a wild-eyed, far leftist. An indication of how far right the party has moved in the last 25 years of voting.

[DFW]

92. Except on one major point

I do not agree with ANY further liberalization of gun laws. I think they are far too permissive already.

Maybe people from Northern States don't see this as such a big issue, but in the South, too many guns are
being carried by too many people not mature enough or emotionally qualified to be toting them.

[Sparkly]

109. I agree, but that's the left position.

Somehow it's been decided that the rightwing position on guns is now "left," but that isn't the case.

[DFW]

117. If it's not PC to follow the crowd on that, then so be it

Being from the south, for me there are just way too many people carrying guns around to make me feel safe.
Rather than feel secure from bad guys "trying anything," I feel less secure because I know there are a LOT
of very unbalanced people out there with guns running around, and they don't identify themselves before they
do stupid things. If I want to get intimidated by someone , I'll just wear a turban through an airport security check.

[martymar64]

650. Same with pilot's licenses

I drive by the Echelon Building every day and there's still a big gaping hole in it.

Every day it makes me hate the Right a little bit more.

[Mad_Dem_X]

93. Proud Liberal right here!

:hi: :patriot:

[kenfrequed]

95. I am here

Yes

[sagetea]

96. I'm still here,

I never post but I still read!


Ho
sage

[babydollhead]

97. check

[TreasonousBastard]

Where's the environment fit in there, and civil rights...

subsidized housing, and a whole bunch of other things.

Tough to list 'em all, and there's a litmus test on some of them (not mentioned here) so better answer the correct way or be called out.

As many times as I've been called a corporate shill around here, I'm a socialist-- I don't believe in private property or the highly vaunted property rights talked about a lot. I'm not big on family values, either, and if past attempts weren't so horrendously fucked up, I would advocate making it a lot easier to yank kids away from parents who aren't up to the job. Before that, though, I'd like to see a lot more help for parents, such as done in most parts of Europe where the state greatly assists in child rearing. Fat chance in this country, though.

I'd like to see a right to housing and food, in addition to healthcare. On a trip to Germany and the Netherlands a while ago one of the the first comments my companion made was "Where are all the homeless?" She couldn't imagine a city without cardboard boxes under the bridges.

Nationalizing industry? Nah. Some, maybe, but not all of it. No way the gummint could give us iPads, comfortable clothes, or decent cars. Probably couldn't do well farming, either. What it can do is provide electricity, transportation and some commodities that don't need massive marketing or much innovative technology. And the gummint is always subject to ignorant public opinion as much as informed public opinion, and corrupt and/or ignorant politicans.

Lots of other things on my mind, too, but I'll wait to be torn apart on these before starting on the others.

[Lochloosa]

98. Here. But I noticed we lost one yesterday. And I really want to know why.

[QC]

100. Look in any of the locked threads about it

and you will see an explanation from EarlG.

[KoKo]

147. please...

PM me.

[mochajava666]

102. Check

I'm still taken aback that being anti torture is considered left wing. Most of my life being anti torture just meant that you weren't a psychopath.

I'm left wing enough to be very disappointed with Obama's compromises with the Republican crazies, the Conservadems and other DLC "Bush lite" Dems. I wish he would at least try to live up to his campaign rhetoric. In other words, I wish he would be the man he describes himself as in his books.

[muffin1]

116. I love your second sentence.

Most of my life being anti torture just meant that you weren't a psychopath. :applause:

My party has moved so far right...oh hell, I'm getting depressed.

[No Elephants]

539. AFTER being elected, Obama described himself as a New Democrat.

I don't see any significant difference between DLC and New Democrats. So, I don't see Obama as "compromising" with the DLC. I seem him being indistinguishable from the DLC. Hell, Obama has more Clintonites in his admnistration than Bill Clinton did.

[mochajava666]

761. I agree with what you're saying. My delusion of his illusion.

When Ted Kennedy endorsed him, I read Obama's book the "The Audacity of Hope" (in audio book format with him reading it). Before that. I dismissed him as too inexperienced, and didn't follow anything in his campaign. After reading his book, I donated a lot of time and money to his cause, because I felt "the fierce urgency of now".

So, my first impression of him came from his book, and then his campaign speeches. First impressions are powerful, so I still keep thinking he wasn't lying in his book and assume that he really is the guy he portrays himself as in his book.

Therefore, I look at his corporatist policies and view them as compromises even though it is obvious from the facts that he had no intention of providing any progressive leadership. Rahm is a pure DLC'er, Geitner and Summers are more Republican than Democratic, and his 2 Supreme Court nominees are to the right of their predecessors. DADT? Patriot Act? Off shore drilling? Nuclear power plants? It appears as good politics to shit on the base in order to woo independents. But leadership gets the independent vote, and he knows that, too. Corporatist policies get the campaign money, and he is beholden to them. The rest is illusion.

[Sparkly]

103. Yup.

I used to hate these threads cuz it seemed being "left" was a fashion label.

Now things are different, so I'm chiming in for the first time.

"Here!"

:hi:

[disillusioned73]

104. Present!

[kctim]

106. It is the stance, not the issue

which defines ones political label.
Shoot, according to you're list, I am a liberal and quite a few people on here, myself included, would strongly disagree.

[laughingliberal]

108. Present. nt

[marmar]

110. I'm having the right turn signal removed from my car.

[blm]

111. Open Government Advocate checking in....

.

[oxymoron]

112. I'm here

:hi:

[Mira]

114. CHECK and recommend

[joe black]

115. I'm in.

And I still love FDR despite the attempted rewrite of his legacy yesterday.

[CanonRay]

118. I'm hiding in a Red county!

[Dr Morbius]

120. I don't want to take my place on the line.

The political spectrum is a construct. It's a mechanism to study political beliefs on a macro level. Most individuals hold opinions which would place them at multiple points on the line. And then the line itself isn't complete; one can be libertarian or statist as a liberal, and one can be a statist or a libertarian as a conservative. Some people use an X and Y axis to describe their opinion in a political graph, instead of just assuming a point on a line.

I don't like being told that a line has been constructed, and I belong somewhere on this line. I don't like that a bit.

Now, I'm for rational thought. I'm for government that works. I'm for freedom and regulated markets. All that puts me on the left. And I see a federal budget which is about 1/4 of the national GDP and I'm horrified. I'm for a very strong defense and spending a lot of money on defense, as much as necessary. I'm for kicking ass internationally if necessary (admittedly, it's rarely necessary). And that stuff puts me on the right. Some would say holding these disparate views makes me a moderate, and I do believe in moderation, especially in government. But I hold no centrist views at all.

See the line? Get on that line! I get to choose my place on that line - is this supposed to convince me I'm free?

I'm a Democrat and fiercely for rational thought. That makes me as a liberal, I suppose; when I don't feel much like talking about it I describe myself as a liberal. I probably hold more lefty views than righty views. I'm just weary of being told I have to choose a place on an imaginary line which is used to control us. Grr.

[Nite Owl]

121. I always thought I was sort of in the middle

but now I am firmly left because the party moved so far right. Not here much anymore, too many apologists for this administration working here.
Add single payer which isn't really a left wing concept, lots of republicans really expected it to happen. My son's manager voted Dem for the first time because he really thought there would be decent health care reform. Lost him in the next election with the corporate bill produced.

[kentuck]

122. Bookmarking

for future reference...

K & R

[Eyerish]

123. Present....

I'm glad to see some names I haven't seen in awhile in this thread...

[supernova]

124. I'm still here

Pro choice, pro social safety net including free universities and free health care (at POS), pro environmental policies.

Generally anthing that supports work to live, not live to work philosophy. I think the the French and Europe have it right generally.

Anti war, anti neoliberal economics, anti straussian and darwinian conservatism.

[Aristus]

125. I've said it a million times, and I'll say it again:

Liberal till I DIE, motherfuckers! B-)

[old mark]

126. Far left leftover from the '70's - I still remember when it was fashionable to

be a liberal, and when the "real left" thought liberals were unacceptably moderate and the RWers were heading for extinction...
Reagan was running for Governor of California and that was thought to be a real joke... Ha, Ha....

mark

[tango-tee]

437. I just knew without a doubt I'd see your name here!

:toast:

[old mark]

500. Never trust anyone under 50, TT!

(How is your cat?)

mark

[tango-tee]

653. Them young'uns just don't wanna listen!

Mosche is still hanging in there... thanks for asking, Mark.

[old mark]

759. Not like when WE were kids......

(They'd all be in jail......)


m

[tango-tee]

762. Well,

I ALWAYS listened to my elders. Always. I'm sure you did, too... there's not so much as a flicker of doubt in my mind. Tee hee hee.



:hippie:

[old mark]

770. In one ear and out the other.....

Must have heard that a million times, when I bothered to listen at all...


mark

[tango-tee]

790. !!!

Hugs to you!

t-t

[murdoch]

817. Yes, I am anti-liberal

For me the central battle is between the workers and the rentiers. I consider myself a wage slave, whose ancestors were driven out of a country occupied by imperialists (Ireland). Our ability to feed ourselves from our own farms was robbed by capitalist imperialists, so now whether I have food on the table or not depends on the whim of those who own all the capital.

I recognize for those Americans who still are gainfully employed and driving home from Whole Foods to the house they own in the suburbs that this view seems far out, but think for a moment what the view of the average, median Greek is right now, never mind the average Bolivian or Cuban or Venezuelan or Nepali. I believe, even if the economy recovers for a few years, which might not happen, that economic collapse and the like will continue.

[Hun Joro]

127. Checking in! nt

[Canuckistanian]

129. All of the above.

A majority of people DO have the same values. It's not "left-wing".

[branders seine]

130. a handful.

the corporatist conservodems have killed off most of us.

[Lerkfish]

135. death by a thousand paper cuts.

they harrangue us to the point of apathetic resignation... at least they try to.

[ralps]

131. Here!!

:bounce: :hi: :hug: :pals:

[Bigmack]

132. And being driven further Left all the time! nt

[yowzayowzayowza]

134. I guess JFK wuzn't a "left-wing" liberal then:

"Today the expenditure of billions of dollars every year on weapons acquired for the purpose of making sure we never need them is essential to the keeping of peace."

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/jfkamericanuniversityaddress.html

I guess I'm a JFK liberal.

[Lerkfish]

139. once we had those weapons, did we achieve permanent peace?

:shrug:

[yowzayowzayowza]

154. With our Cold War adversary, yes. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

152. You don't have to be a pacifist to be a real Liberal...

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance".

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

465. Nope. But, Einstein was. "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." Einstein

[yowzayowzayowza]

503. Yep, he'z out there:

"It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."

[mikelgb]

136. present

[Generic Other]

137. present

not enough of us. wow.

[Lerkfish]

140. yeah, that was the point of my OP, I've been missing a whole host of people here lately

I myself have been dwindling in my participation.

[Tom Rinaldo]

138. Battered by Free Market "Health Care Reform"...

...but still here (though less active).

[Razoor]

141. checking in

also checking in

[Frosty1]

142. Here I am

:hi:

[Recursion]

143. It's an obsolete and largely meaningless term

"Left-wing" has to do with (IIRC) who sat where in Louis XIV's court.

I call myself a "liberal", and not a "progressive", but then I'm probably too concerned with terms' historical baggage. But I'm probably not a "left-wing" liberal by a lot of people's standards because I think rapid systemic changes are usually more harmful than whatever they are trying to fix. Which I guess makes me technically a "conservative", though not in the sense it's usually used in this country.

[tomp]

144. leftist. nt

[Daphne08]

146. I'm still here

[KoKo]

149. Here.....but check in less frequently because of the lack of discussion

and the close mindedness and gang tagging.

[Lyric]

151. Here.

[Skidmore]

153. I am a liberal, a progressive liberal, a liberal progressive...

to hell with the labels. I believe in all of those things. However, I am also pragmatic to a fault and sometimes you need to sit down and talk to others. Sometimes you need to join with others to do the lifting. No progress for a nation can be made when you are unable to bring the majority along with you.

[Dappleganger]

158. That probably best describes me as well.

Think of it what you will.

BTW, I'm not here to 'join a club' but to learn something new.

[Dogtown]

155. Add "Separation of Church/State"

and I'm your boy!

:patriot:

[Wind Dancer]

156. I'm here....

Don't post much anymore though!

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

157. I'd change my name

to "dyedinthewoolleftwingliberal" but I'm sorta lazy................ :toast:
Left wing to me, means no war except when proven to protect the soil in the Untied States, quality health care for all, a constant re-ivestment in the country's infrastructure and a pointed and assertive campaign to educate all of us on how differences like sexual preference, race and religion are nothing to get excited about. :)

[Froward69]

160. YO

[hunter]

161. Hello Lerkfish!

I'm here.

:hi:

[dembotoz]

162. yep

[mnhtnbb]

163. Hand raised!

[myrna minx]

164. Wellstone liberal checking in.

:hi:

[tango-tee]

455. Hey myrna minx!

So good to see you here, too!

[myrna minx]

487. How's kitty?

Is he getting any better?

[tango-tee]

654. Still hanging in there, Myrna

Will know more a little later. Thank you so much for asking!

O8)

[IndianaGreen]

166. On behalf of Homeland Security Department, we are taking down your names

As long as Presidents use the Constitution as toilet paper, we will continue to have our civil liberties and personal freedoms in jeopardy.

[Echo In Light]

222. And The People's Salute to Big Bro, Inc ...

:hi:

[flyarm]

167. Here!! Here!!...been here almost 40 years!!..

and I won't be silenced and I won't run away..and I will hold all accountable for what they do in MY congress and My White House , and My air ways , and My enviornnment!..I don't care how many propagandists and paid bots they throw my way..either party.

I will never be silent.

I am a "WE THE PEOPLE" and I take that very seriously..I AM THE GOVERNMENT!..They work for me.

[No Elephants]

737. If the government works for you, you need to start supervising a LOT better than you have been.

j/k.

Well, mostly j/k. We ALL have to start supervising a lot better than we have been. I refuse to take any credit for the government, though.

[Moochy]

168. .

[dmosh42]

172. Also, anti-'Big' corporations!

[Marr]

173. Here.

[G_j]

174. check

[Xithras]

176. Proud "Trees before People" environmentalist.

Tree Hugger is a badge of honor, not a name to be ashamed of.

Anti-(unjust)-War, anti-torture, pro-union, pro-choice, anti-unitary executive, and a free speech absolutist.

[rudy23]

Here--let's promise not to let anyone wear us down or chase us away

The sane people have to win this one.

[kpete]

177. yep, yes, absolutely

yes, kpete
to me, liberal=open mind, open heart

[Peacetrain]

178. Not jumping ugly with you...but are there "righty" liberals. and "moderate" liberals?

Is there a spectrum that liberal is being judged by? I am just a plain old Liberal Democrat. And I have personal views that swing the spectrum.. that is for sure.

[Junkdrawer]

180. Better here than in Philadelphia...

[spiritual_gunfighter]

182. Check

We still outnumber them by a large margin here on DU.

[HughMoran]

184. Check, check, check, check, check, check

That's me.

[PADemD]

185. Here

[fascisthunter]

186. hello (nt)

[mike_c]

187. present....

Although I'm getting close to needing an outrage fatigue break.

[paparush]

189. Check one, check one, check!

[Jackpine Radical]

190. I guess I'm in.

Kind of an unreconstructed '60's exile, though.

[MadBadger]

191. I'm not anti-war. Just anti some wars. I dont think that keeps me from being a left wing liberal

You may disagree of course

[TorchTheWitch]

193. still here

barely

[Arctic Dave]

194. Yo!

[grahamhgreen]

196. Lefty here!

[tnlurker]

199. Check

[Mosaic]

201. I was wondering the same thing

I am fully anti-war, anti-empire whether that empire is British, American, or Chinese I don't care I am against it. I fully believe in the equality of all the races. I am Social Democratic, and I can't wait until we have a president that is too.

[madmom]

202. I'm the same person with the same beliefs I've always had. I believe in the

"golden rule" (even though I'm atheist). I believe we need to get to the point of people helping people live a good, productive, happy life, however that is done. Nobody should be making profits off of someone elses misfortune, or even causing someone elses misfortune. If that makes me a "left wing" liberal so be it. I've NOT changed at all.

[bullwinkle428]

205. Yes, K&R!

[DoBotherMe]

206. Here

Dana ; )

[nyc 4 Biden]

207. left-wing, liberal, progressive, democratic socialist. here am i. eom

[malaise]

209. Check

and Rec

[intheflow]

210. Independent Progressive here.

But I vote straight Dem tickets in national elections. (Sometimes vote Green locally.) As far as DU goes, I mostly cruise the Greatest Page, where the cream of the crop seems to rise. And even then, I mostly lurk. But I am here every single day.

[smoogatz]

211. Yo!

The older I get, the more progressive-bordering-on-socialist I become. I do have a strong pragmatic streak, though, and the sense to understand that you don't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime, especially when roughly half of the damn ship wants to go in a different direction. Incrementalism sucks, but it's where we're at for the moment. That's the other thing that happens with age: you get a different sense of history and time. Turning the country around after 44 years of center-right to far-right rule isn't going to happen overnight. I understand that lots of folks here think it should, of course--to them I say: good luck with that.

[evilkumquat]

212. I'm For All, But Also Second Amendment Rights

One of my best friends died two months ago from a self-inflicted gunshot, but I'm still supporting the Second Amendment.

I hate guns more than ever, but if I expect people to support MY favorite Amendment (the First), to offer less than full support for the Second would make me a hypocrite.

[salib]

213. Yep

[Orsino]

214. Progressive here. n/t

[FailureToCommunicate]

215. Still shaking it, Boss...still shaking it.

Add pro disability (civil) rights, and I'm in "the Lefty line" - somewhere near the old school folks: Pete Seeger, Cesar Chavez, Joan Baez, MLK, Richard Pryor...

[Terry in Austin]

224. But how many eggs can you eat?

:hi:

[FailureToCommunicate]

227. "...seemed like a nice round number"

[madrchsod]

216. left-wing till i die.....

[freebrew]

218. NOT Liberal....

Leftist. Progressive.

Not even sure what 'liberal' means anymore.

Memeber SDS, former YIPPIE, former cause I'm not a youth anymore.....

[No Elephants]

719. Welcome to Democratic Underground, LLC.

[No Elephants]

742. See, and I'm not sure what "Progressive" means anymore.

Democrats who subscribe to the PNAC memo claim to be Progressive.

:shrug:

[Sebastian Doyle]

219. Left wing Liberal here, and god damned proud of it!

Fuck the DLC and all their Stalinist "become the opposition" right wing infiltration.

[Stumbler]

221. Present

[bonnieS]

223. Raising my hand: Here!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

226. A "Red Diaper" Marxist. I moved left from there.

[kurtzapril4]

228. Here! n/t

[Duval]

229. Here is another!:)

[bananas]

231. Checking in - but I may be busy for a while

so I might not be posting much.

[denverbill]

Count me in. n/t

[onethatcares]

233. well, since you put it that way

I'm here:toast:

[efhmc]

234. Feminist liberal Democrat.

The first category is the hardest, to my mind, to be around here.

[earcandle]

235. I'm still here! But I want those bastards ruining our country and our economy to

Get Out!

[Individualist]

236. Still here, still vehemently opposed to DLC.

[Fire1]

238. I consider myself liberal but not progressive. n/t

[PassingFair]

239. I'm not anti-war per se....

I'm just anti- steal other country's natural resources, and
blow up brown people because they don't feel pain like
us kind of wars.

Checking in.

:patriot:

[Ichingcarpenter]

240. I'm still here but not as often

I'm living in another country now and it takes up more of my time and I can't post as often

[MisterP]

241. Red, Green, and (theologically rather than "culturally") Catholic

so I'm always on the lookout for WASPy parochialism, Whig history, personality cults, liberal go-no-further-left-ism, and bourgeois worldviews, as well as conservative beliefs, world-pictures, and sheer bullheaded status-quo foot-dragging

[maynard]

242. count me in....

I am one of those evil leftists................lol

[Jankyn]

243. Count me in! (n/t)

[Morning Dew]

244. checking in. n/m

[struggle4progress]

245. Still here. Still think social justice is a major concern.

Still oppose state terrorism by war and torture and the threat of nuclear annihilation and the death penalty. Still believe people have a right to arrange their private lives as they like, if they pose no harm to themselves or others. Still expect that a detailed and accurate analysis of power arrangements must include a thorough examination of economic forces. Still believe nonviolent resistance is one helluva good idea. Still think that solidarity really matters. Still want to end the extractive assault of our civilization on the environment. Still believe in democracy and in community and raising consciousness and in ending exploitation and alienation

[HughBeaumont]

246. Progressive Democratic Socialist.

Anti-Unbridled Corporatism, anti-job-offshoring, anti-Laissez-Fail, anti-flat/fair/regressive tax, anti-Class War.

One look at my journal should tell you where I stand.

[SocialistLez]

251. +1 NT

[Florida Blue]

247. Yaller Dog Liberal Democrat here

[northoftheborder]

248. here

here still

[SocialistLez]

249. I consider myself a Leftist but yeah, count me as a left-winger. NT

[Green_Lantern]

250. what do you mean?

Anti-war? Against all war?

What do you mean by unitary executive?

I'm pro-union but tired of seeing union leaders making 6 figures and driving BMWs.

[socialist_n_TN]

252. ME! ME!

Although not knee jerk about it, I'm DEFINITELY REAL left of center.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

253. Checking in. DU not such a comfortable fit these days. n/t

[HillWilliam]

255. Check and recheck

Me. My husbear is out doing chores today, so I'll check in for both of us.

[madmax]

256. +1

[ChiciB1]

257. Hardly Here Anymore... Rarely Posting... But I AM ONE Of The Supposed

Awful People who has become very disenfranchised! Probably my second post in about 3 weeks, but not sure how long or actually the number!

BUT, I do check in to see how it's going, just not contributing much these days! If I was monitoring my blood pressure I'm sure it wouldn't be a positive number!

And to all that still post daily, you have my support!!
:grouphug: :loveya:

[bikebloke]

258. European social democrat here.

[coffeenap]

259. Here!! nt

[nicky187]

260. Present,

... and accounted for.

[Phlem]

261. Here!

And fricken proud of it.

-p

[dana_b]

262. Checking in!

:hi:

[Tripmann]

263. Checking in also

from the very left of left.

[woofless]

264. Here.

:hippie: :toast:

[drm604]

265. Are we required to be total pacifists to qualify?

I'm not anti-"all wars under any circumstances", but I do believe there need to be VERY compelling reasons.

So I may not completely fit your literal definition, but I consider myself a liberal.

[grantcart]

376. Yep many here consider all wars to have the same moral equivalency

Interesting that liberals now have to have a check list.

I have always thought liberals were more for debate than stale checklists.

Against armed conflict, yes but somethings are much worse.

I for one applaud the invasion by the People's Republic of Vietnam invading Cambodia and sending the regime of the Khmer Rouge into the bowels of history. Sometimes war is the answer.

[Beam Me Up]

266. Political Compass: Economic L/R: -8.12; Social L/A: -8.97

See post #73 above if you don't understand that cryptic Subject line.

GOVERNMENT as currently constituted is FAILING to protect Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. If it can't even protect the environment, for example, how can we expect it to protect us -- our values, needs and principals? How can we have Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness without clean breathable air, clean drinkable water and a natural habitat that not only respects but celebrates life?

What does our GOVERNMENT protect? Right now, predominantly one thing: "Profit". That is, profit that defers costs onto the consumer both directly through costs, wage slavery and taxation and indirectly through a polluted and compromised social and natural environment. When environmental and social costs are considered, THERE IS NO PROFIT, only deception.

GOVERNMENT as currently constituted with its hand-maiden of corporate controlled media has become the tool through which this deception is sustained. It is time to think outside the Left/Right | Authoritarian/Libertarian box and ask ourselves, what are our fundamental human principals and values and what kind of mechanism is needed to protect and guarantee them not only for ourselves but for future generations of life on Earth? If we do not do this, we will destroy ourselves AND life on this planet.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-8.12&soc=-8.97

[yellerpup]

267. Still here.

:hi:

[Lorien]

269. Here. Anti-war, pro-environment, pro civil rights, pro animals rights, anti

corporate welfare, pro LGBT rights, pro public education, pro choice, pro union, anti torture, anti police State and seeking justice for all of those without a voice or the riches to defend themselves against the greedy oligarchy.

[Flubadubya]

270. Sure and strong as ever!

:applause: :dem: :applause:

[unpossibles]

271. barely here. nt

[Touchdown]

272. Aye Mate!

;)

[Vinca]

273. Here!

[JDPriestly]

274. Checking in. But I was middle-of-the-road back in the Johnson days

and I have not changed. So, the country has moved right. I have not moved "left."

In fact, I was opposed to the Viet Nam War for reasons of my own. But I never protested against it although I was in an age group that was protesting. That's how not-"left" I was considered to be.

I am disappointed in Obama. He is not standing up for what is right.

[Historic NY]

275. ....

:hi:

[Mithreal]

276. Get off the boards and hit the streets. Agree with a lot of the sentiment here.

The conservatives on DU understand where all you liberals stand. It's the people who would never think to come to a board like DU who are hungry for the progressive message. At some point, please disengage from the shriekers here and start the hard work of face to face organizing and discussions. I don't post here much anymore because I am doing what I can to build community. It's easier than you think to get started and more rewarding. I keep meeting people who are looking for leaders and many here could be those leaders. You will learn by doing. You all are who you have been waiting for.

[No Elephants]

720. +1

Still, it's nice to see a post of yours.

[Mithreal]

816. Hi, No Elephants :)

[Anwen]

278. Here.

[dflprincess]

279. Still here

but wondering how much longer. And after 38 years of being active, I don't know how much longer I can stick with the DFL.

We need a Liberal Democratic party.

[ChiciB1]

287. Feeling the Same Way!! Don't Know Where To Turn, But Have Been

involved in politics since my father introduced me to it when I was 11! Now, I'm feeling lost in "left field!"

So I'm trying to figure out "if" or "where" I fit in these days!!

[foxfeet]

280. Here.

[progressoid]

283. yup.

[catrose]

285. Check with GLBT updates

[The Old Creak]

286. I'm New Here

but, yeah, definitely count me in!:mad:

[and-justice-for-all]

288. Check..Democratic Socialist actually..nt

[Blue_Tires]

290. ttt

[CrispyQ]

291. Another "far leftist" here.

Not sure when I became a far leftist as my views haven't changed all that much over the years. But I'm now considered part of the radical fringe.

I used to consider DU my virtual home, but no longer. I visit far less frequently than in past years, I post even less than that, & I've stopped my monthly contributions. Why pay money to have people tell me I'm an unreasonable, far left crazy & that if I don't vote for candidates with a D behind their name, I'll be responsible for president Palin? :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[WhoIsNumberNone]

292. I'm with all those things in theory-

I've been against the Iraq war ever since it became clear it was coming (i.e. first week Bush was in office) but supported the Afghan war at first -when we were going after Osama bin Ladin- but I qualified that by saying that had we done the right thing from the get-go instead of throwing Afghanistan to the wolves as soon as the Russians pulled out, the war would have been unnecessary.

100% anti torture: 1)If we want to keep calling ourselves the good guys, there is no way to justify torture. 2) Even if we don't care what the world thinks, it has been proven over and over again that torture does not yield reliable information. Even the Nazis recognized this.

Theoretically pro union- until the union becomes as corrupt as the robber barons it is supposedly protecting the worker from. As long as the union can keep itself clean, I'm in favor of it.

I'm pro choice, but I would like to see a couple of modest requirements: 1) a 24 hour cooling off period between the time the abortion is requested and the time it is performed. (This would require an accompanying law that would prevent religious whackos from picketing abortion clinics and harassing the doctors & patrons) 2) a counseling session to make the woman aware of her options and potential health risks (this would also require a limitation that would forbid subjecting the woman to a series of bloody fetus pictures)

I do feel that the President should have some power, there are certainly times when it is more expedient for the President to be able to take charge, but it for it to be abused the way Bush did is unacceptable. I would love to see us get back to the balance of power as described in the Constitution, but the system will require MAJOR reform before it can again work the way it was intended.

[midnight]

293. 153 K&R.

[dgibby]

294. Still here,

but don't post much now. I've learned a lot about many different subjects (environment, economics, politics,gardening,genealogy,etc), and come here for news analysis, but find the political divide toxic. It's almost impossible to have a decent discussion if you voice any disagreement with the party line, something I find quite sad.

[Horse with no Name]

296. I'll check in

But I'm not around as much these days...so maybe I don't count.:shrug:

[4dsc]

297. ME!!!

[Radical Activist]

298. Very left.

Happy to see that Obama is making progress and creating an environment that's conducive to movement organizing.

[MissDeeds]

299. Still here

But barely. I seldom post anymore. It's not the same DU it was a few years ago.

[blueworld]

300. count me in. n/t

[colsohlibgal]

301. Way, Way Left

Liberal, progressive, democratically socialist woman I am - and quite proud to be so.

[LiberalLovinLug]

303. Check

"left" is a huge tent.

Some are for zero abortion rights
Some are for zero gun control laws
Some are pro military (which can mean if there is a war then they support the war funding)
Some are for Don't Ask Don't Tell, and anti gay marriage laws.

I am more liberal than that, but what doesn't change I think for all progressives is this:

We are not afraid of the truth. We want to know the ugly details in order to make things better.
The other side says we hate our country if we point out its faults. They prefer to live in a fantasy world where America has the best health care, best way of life in the whole world. No need to spend taxes on helping fellow citizens because there's nothing to fix, (because they refuse to open their eyes)

[Robeson]

304. Here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

305. Yo!

[emsimon33]

306. Count me in!

[shirlden]

307. JFK tree hugging

hippie.
Lib and so proud of it. The more I see of the radical right, the more radical left I get

[krabigirl]

309. I'm here (not sure what I am..left libertarian I guess?) but I am in agreement with you.

[Bryn]

311. Here

Environmental and Wildlife Protection
Pro Choice
Single Payer for All
More taxes for the Rich/Corportions that aren't doing their part
NO MORE OFF SHORE OIL DRILLING!
Anti War, Anti Torture

many more ....

[Rex]

312. Here and always ready to piss off a lurking 'peeper or 'bagger.

One of my favorite things to do is make the 'paid for' operatives mad and if I can...get them tombstoned ASAP.

[GoneOffShore]

313. Here's another one.

And I'm noticing some conspicuous absences.

[Wally Pipp]

314. In the words of Garrison Keillor. . .

. . . . to none other than Bill O'Reilly: "I'm a garden-variety, tax-and-spend liberal."

BTW: Fuck all the Frank Luntzes and Karl Roves! I don't care how much you try to make it a bad word, I am a LIBERAL!! Suck it!

[havbrush]

315. How many left

Over here.

[Maat]

316. Checking in.

I define myself as a left-of-center Green. I agree with the stated positions.

[wolfgangmo]

319. 6 - there are 6 left in America. The smithsonian is planning and exhibition.

We'll be placed next to a skeleton of a dinosaur, a graph about american exceptionalism, a photo of Rush with his hands raised in the air, and a plaque with the word DEMOCRACY printed on it.

[defendandprotect]

329. Nah . . . if there weren't so many of us the rw wouldn't have to buy government and MSM!!

:evilgrin:

[No Elephants]

721. According to recent poll, liberals are about half of the Democratic Party.

[BonnieJW]

320. Under that description,

I'm in.

[Roland99]

321. Anti-Corporation, too!

well, anti-corporations-as-persons and anti-corporations-over-people.

[Lucky 13]

322. Here. And way left. nt

[AlinPA]

323. Checking in. Pro-environment. Pro union....

[mntleo2]

324. Old "Trained" Wobbly here ...

...taught to me at my grandparents' knees.
Cat in Seattle

[RandomThoughts]

326. Lets Get It Started!

Too Life! Live !!!! Snoopies To Your Planes, Fly!!!!!!!!!

Lets Get It Started ! Once More With Feeling!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x33bd2_once-more-with-feeling_shortfilms

Let's Get It Started, in here...

And the base keep runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and
runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and...

In this context, there's no disrespect, so, when I bust my rhyme, you break your necks.
We got five minutes for us to disconnect, from all intellect collect the rhythm effect.
Obstacles are inefficient, follow your intuition, free your inner soul and break away from tradition.
Coz when we beat out, girl it's pullin without. You wouldn't believe how we wow shit out.
Burn it till it's burned out. Turn it till it's turned out. Act up from north, west, east, south.


Everybody, everybody, let's get into it.
Get stupid.
Get it started, get it started, get it started.
Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here. Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here.
Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here. Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here.
Yeah.

Lose control, of body and soul.
Don't move too fast, people, just take it slow.
Don't get ahead, just jump into it.
Ya'll here a body, two pieces to it.
Get stutted, get stupid.
You'll want me body people will walk you through it.
Step by step, like you're into new kid.
Inch by inch with the new solution.
Trench men hits, with no delusion.
The feeling's irresistible and that's how we movin'.


Everybody, everybody, let's get into it.
Get stupid.
Get it started, get it started, get it started.
Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here. Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here.
Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here. Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here.
Yeah.

Runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin runnin' and...

C'mon y'all, lets get woohoo!
Lets get woohoo! (in here)
Lets get woohoo!
Lets get woohoo! (in here)
Lets get woohoo!
Lets get woohoo! (in here) Ow, ow, ow!
Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya...

Let's get ill, that's the ...
At the gate, we'll bring the bud top drill. (Just)
Lose your mind this is the time,
Ya'll test this drill, Just and bang your spine. (Just)
Bob your head like epilepsy, up inside your club or in your Bentley.
Get messy, loud and sick.
Ya'll mount past slow mo in another head trip. (So)
Come then now do not correct it, let's get pregnant let's get hectic.


Everybody, everybody, let's get into it.
Get stupid. (Come on)
Get it started (come one) , get it started (yeah), get it started.
Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here. Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here.
Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started in here. Let's get it started (ha), let's get it started
(woah, woah, woah) in here.
Yeah.

Lets get woohoo!
Lets get woohoo! (in here)
Lets get woohoo!
Lets get woohoo! (in here)
Lets get woohoo!
Lets get woohoo! (in here) Ow, ow, ow!
Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya, ya...

Runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin', and runnin' runnin'



Under your spell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQlOFmq5sgQ

Can you see this video in a good light, I can, for me I think of the spell of the song as God's love, then it can conform to a view I like to think on.

[RandomThoughts]

514. To those that responded with pet doctrine comments, I do not believe in Pet Doctrine.

So those that see it that way, that is your problem, it is not part of my thought.

[defendandprotect]

328. Present . . . checking in!!

[OnyxCollie]

330. Here. nt

[Loki]

333. here on all of those

plus more.

[idahoblue]

334. Present

[Doubting Thomas]

336. Leftie

Here!

Raised in a Union household in the 40's. Lefter as I get older, too.

[ooglymoogly]

337. Still awake at the wheel... "D" has come to mean dogshit to me....

unless preceded by Liberal and proven Liberal at that! News flash!!!! The constitution is a liberal document and is supposed to be what the law of the land is based on....anyone who says otherwise is blowing smoke up their asses and is a raging pug, no matter what letter they have after their name, or what outlandish kabuki they perform to pretend otherwise, to lull us into voting for them. The only diff between the pugs and the dems in office right now is that "dems" howl at the moon less and force slightly less biblical law on us than the loony zealots on the right, now called mainstream by our loonytunes "MSM", (pronounced corpmedia or MPP, the ministry of pug propaganda).

[ooglymoogly]

367. self delete silly

[No Elephants]

722. The Constitution was not a liberal document, but the Bill of Rights was radical.

No, the Constitution, (as amended, of course), is not liberal. It's much further left than liberal. Especially for its time.

The original document, without any amendments, however, was pro-business and pro-military. (The Framers were mostly rich guys who were tired of, for example, getting their commercial ships hijacked by pirates and wanted the federal government to be able to protect their private ships on the high seas. And so on.)

The people/states, however, said, "We're not going to ratify this document, unless you promise to add the Bill of Rights, ASAP."

Government said, "Oh, we never meant individuals and states wouldn't have any rights. We just figured that would be totally between the people and their state governments. That goes without saying."

Folks said, "Nope. We want it in writing from the federal government."

So, government promised and the people/states ratified the Constitution. And, government apparently being honorable then, kept its promise about the Bill of Rights.

Since the 14th Amendment, the SCOTUS has decided most of the Bill of Rights apply to the states, as well as to the federal government. So much for leaving individual rights to the federal government OR to the individual states.

And the Magna Carta, for its time? Fuhgeddabouddit. Peons have rights?? Kings have obligations, not only wealth, powers and privileges? Utterly new concepts in 1215 C.E. On the magnitude of inventing the wheel and use of tools many millenia earlier.

The American Revolution was about as far to the left as it got after the Magna Carta. Just ask the Loyalists. Not only changing government, but changing nationality, too. And inventing independence for colonies.



Moral of the story? People have to stand up for what they want. Or they get the plutonomy under which America operates. (And not only America.) We have ceased to stand up IRL. Then, we wonder why we can't take back the power that we had when we did stand up.

[ooglymoogly]

797. Just this about the intent of the constitution.

"promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".
The bill of Rights writ large those concepts in granite. I think any liberal today would be gratified to live by those rules of fairness, embodied in the constitution, which the law, as mandated by it, be based upon; Though progress inevitably requires adjustments, but only within those concepts of fairness; That also anticipated in those hallowed documents. Deciphering that simple and plain intent "fairness" is what has become a wobbled football for a crooked right and a crooked sC; To head us into "religious" fascism and corporate slavery, the very opposite of the intent of the Constitution and the reason for which it was framed. The Bill of Rights is but a clarification of the intent of the constitution.

Rich and evil are not always synonymous, whereas fair and liberal almost always are; FDR, JFK, RFK, to name just a few of the rich who demanded fairness for all. Madison's odd ambivalence to slavery, (anathema to fairness and the constitution), though he wrote passionately against it, continued owning other folks and did not free them even on his death as Washington freed others from oppression on his death. That was a far different time and passing judgment on that, then hotly contested issue, when the south depended on enslaving others for its evil empire, house of cards, livelihood, today, is counter intuitive to how the actual job of fairness got done. The Constitution is a document that demands above all, fairness from those bound by it to all. All this to say that, in my book, fairness and liberal are synonymous and the constitution is the guarantee of that fairness and the 13th amendment is just one of the proofs of that (the constitution and slavery could not co-exist) and sadly it is becoming neutered by the continuous, Machiavellian assault on it to castrate and enslave "we the people" without any or little blowback from us . It is now almost a done deal.

[nc4bo]

338. You rang?

:patriot:

[jwirr]

340. Still here.

[bkozumplik]

341. As long as you dont say bad things about our president..

haha. just kidding.

yeah still here, just not as much. Where is another place to gather?
Anyone have site recommendations?

I used to be here, dailykos, and tpmcafe, but now I find myself detached. I'm looking for new things to read.

[scubadude]

342. Here.

I'm old enough to remember real liberals, not the liberal lights that we now mostly have. The Republicans and right wing media have changed the meaning of liberal. They have dragged the whole frame rightward. Therefore many people call themselves liberals using this new definition, not realizing they are actually representing the mid level of Republican thought from 30 years ago.

What we need are more true old line liberals.

Scuba

[No Elephants]

738. IMO, it was Democrats who dragged the nation to the right, not

the RWers.

With help from Democrats, the RW could not have done it. Rather, the RW would have seemed more and more anachronistic and out of the mainstream, if the DLC, New Democrats, etc. hadn't tripped over themselves trying to chase the RW as the RW painted itself into the lower right hand corner of the page that is American politics.

And rank and file Democrats seemed to be asleep while the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party was being displaced by Pub Lite.

Please see also, Reply #482.

[ChiciB1]

784. I Do Agree With Your Statement Myself... It HAS Been Our Very Own

Party Leaders who have turned against us and have decided to cave on so many issues!

That makes it even worse because it leaves us without a place to have our voices heard! And, Obama as our leader has really done some 180's or 360's IMO!

At least that's how THIS LIBERAL feels! Calling Boomers obsolete isn't going to change the situation, nor calling out "the base" as retards will garner much support for those of us who have been in the trenches fighting for so many, many years!!

A few crumbs does not a cookie make!

[scubadude]

795. The erosion occurred thanks to RW Media bias and Big Business $$.

After Nixon the Republicans began a huge grass roots program to destroy the meaning of the word "liberal". They created local field offices and used think tanks funded by RW big business concerns and the RW media. The whole effort of this was to control the message, and the message was in black and white terms, "Liberal" is "bad". "Liberals" want to kill the unborn. "Liberals" don't have "family values". "Liberals" don't believe in God, etc...

They concocted the "Liberal Media" notion as a means of convince people that what they were hearing from the news media was "Liberal" even though the ultimate message of the stories being pushed were tightly controlled by the RW media owners. They called centrist positions "Liberal". And this goes on still. Constant repetition of the same message over and over.

They used other countries money to further their goals as shown by how the Kuwaiti's hired high power Public Relations firms to further reinforce the message on spot issues. "They are throwing babies from the windows of the hospitals."

They talk up the notion that "Americans are exceptional people" instead of Thomas Jefferson's message that "We believe to hold these truths self evident, that all men are created equal."


The Dem's have never had as much Big Business money to create a solid grass roots program on a decades long time frame. We don't have nearly as many big business sponsored think tanks pumping out the party line. Our Dem message is one of nuances, not Black and White. Therefore, in the message world, we fight from a position of weakness, even though we are right.

These reasons many others are why the frame has shifted rightward. We are, by our very natures, nuanced thinkers.

That is the danger of Obama's centrist message. He is allowing the Republicans to cement in their position. He is allowing them to paint him as a "liberal" when in reality his message and administration's actions are similar to what the republicans of 30 or 40 years ago were.

Perhaps he is drawing a line in the sand. Perhaps his "centrism" or "pragmatism" is an attempt to fix the stage for others to pull leftward toward a more traditional liberal mindset. In my m mind this is a dangerous game. Can you fix the stage or move the country leftward while adopting many of the very messages spewed as mantra's by the Republicans? Eroding Miranda rights, the notion that the Supreme Court of the 50's and 60's was too liberal, the continuation of the Afghan war, the bowing down and deal making in the health care fight, the refusal to prosecute the criminality of the previous administration and so on.

Obama's very pragmatism is his weakness. He allows the 50 yard line to be dragged to the right by adopting and actively pursuing some of the message of the right. He might win some battles, but if he does so at the cost of changing the soul of the party, are these really wins, or are they just cementing in the gains the Republicans have already made?

Scuba

[ChiciB1]

807. Yes, Again I Agree! What You Just Stated IS What Has Taken Place

but I'm still sitting at the crossroads! Ronnie Ray-Guns made LIBERAL a dirty word, and yes before that I suppose it was Nixon! Did I EVER in my life think I would agree with Einsenhower?? But those Repukes from back then are the DEMOCRATS of today!

I see it clearly, and yet so many Democrats even here are barely aware of the fact! WHATEVER Obama does of says is hunky-dorey with them and this may be worse for the Democratic Party than many even see or understand!!

I don't think I'll live to see the day of "liberalism" again. Calling Obama a LIBERAL or SOCIALIST makes me laugh out loud, but then I have to sit and cry because it's just so NOT TRUE!!

And then I begin to think ROME!!!!

[scubadude]

814. People now look through a window frame created by the Republicans.

They see themselves as liberals, and don't realize that they would have been Republicans 30 or more years ago. Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex, Nixon created the EPA and signed the endangered species act into law. Yet you find Obamabots complete disdain towards any kind of criticism of Obama, the whole while not understanding that the message he gives is very similar to the ones of Eisenhower or even Nixon. They live in a post thought era. One where their minds aren't critical and have been molded during the Republican re-framing of the political spectrum. They see themselves as Democrats, but only see the Dems as a team as in a sports team, like the Chicago Blackhawks for instance. They want to win, yet they don't understand the party's history or even the implications of where the politicians are today.

That's how I see Obama. Growing up in an upper upper middle class family in the vacation paradise of the country. He doesn't really see what true liberalism is. He cow tows to the republicans who complain of liberal excess. He's middle of the road it's when the road isn't where it should be.

There was never a liberal excess when it comes to lawmaking or governance. As a matter of fact both of those arenas have seen far too much right wing control. It is our job as voters and citizens to let these facts be known.

We are not Obamabots but we are Liberals with a capital "L". Something some on this board may not even understand. We are the right ones. We have the correct message. As Jefferson said, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights."

Scuba

[ChiciB1]

815. JEFFERSON... The GREAT! I So Wish We Could Begin To Make Some

difference as we once did! And yes, I agree with you about the Obamabots completely. Many would say that those of us from the Viet Nam era are too old, or stuck in the past, but that's something that we as Liberals must never forget!

It IS our duty to stay here as a reminder as a time when we were able to make "some" difference. In today's climate we have been left with a situation where the climb up the hill gets steeper as each day goes by.

There are days I feel encouraged about a thing or two, but for the most part... not so much! What if anything can we do is a question I keep asking. I have gone so far as to say that I'm GLAD that perhaps in 20 years or so I may no longer be around, which is NOT a positive thought one should have!

To live to become 80, seems quite long enough for me! My mother-in-law just passed away at the ripe age of 97, but the disease of Alzheimer's effectively took her at the age of 88. She lived with us for ten years, but the last year we were unable to care for here, so we had to put her in a Nursing Home. She died after two months, but we didn't mourn because we saw the cost versus care was pretty bad! This is just ONE issue that we as a people will need to face because many won't have "family" to take in their elderly. But again, even though she was not vegetable, she wasn't aware of who we were, or so we felt. We'll never know because she was unable to talk or communicate for almost 2 years!

No sympathy needed, we did what we could and in the end, her passing was as it should have been. We are given tasks in life so that we can "learn" from what we are dealt.

I have seen that too many people who no longer "care" for their fellow man as it was some time ago. I fear if we have another GREAT DEPRESSION, it will be so much more chaotic than it was back then. Do I sound too negative? Perhaps, still it's NOT how I WANT to sound!!!

Even as I'm writing I'm hearing on my Tee-Vee that 60% of the people in America, DESPITE the horrible oil spill, STILL support off shore drilling!!! This kind of thinking blows me away! I live in Florida and I'm very fearful of what is going to happen. I live in the area that touts the "whitest" beaches in the world! A little further south of Sarasota, FL on the Gulf coast! They say it's not a question of "IF" it will come here, but "WHEN!" Yet, still too many are unable to see the reality of this disaster!

How shall we go forward??

[Martin Eden]

819. RWers are the BOLSHEVIKS today

Not political or economic ideology ... but methodology.

The goal in both cases is the aquisition of POWER by whatver means are available. With no scruples whatsoever they blatantly misrepresent themselves and their adversaries. They know which tactics are effective on their target audience and they keep hammering home the same message until by sheer weight and exposure it shifts public perception even among many of those who remain in the opposing camp.

The Russian Bolsheviks made good use of the "useful idiots" who truly (and erroneously) believed the message they were being fed, just as today's teabaggers believe what they are being fed by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. They want their country back but are too stupid and/or misinformed to realize they are the instruments through which our country will be lost to the corporate neofascists who don't give a shit about mom & pop teabagger except how to manipulate them into working against their own interests.

All of which drags the whole country wrongward to the right, while the "left" bears little resemblance to the liberalism we know from our younger days.

To understand the resilience of the RW propaganda machine, consider the following:
The Republican Party has had major setbacks the last two elections, primarily because the administration of GW Bush was such an obvious disaster that enough of the semi-brainwashed voting public could see it. Then in steps a Democratic president with a Democratic majority in both houses ... he veers toward the "center" in an effort to find "common ground" in solving our national problems ... and yet the RW propaganda machine (with the help of big corporate media) still manages to convince a sizable chunk of the populace that this moderate president is so far left as to be a dangerous marxist.

What this reveals is the extent to which the American people lack the ability for critical thought.

Half a century of being glued to the TV set has blurred the distinction between news & entertainment (and between fiction & reality); shortened attention spans; reduced the content of influential ideas to what can fit on a bumper sticker; and turned the American people into recepticles for the beliefs that the true elites of money and power decide to feed their conscious and subconscious minds.

The nuanced thought of the critical thinker has an ever-shrinking share of the market and stands little chance against the industrial-scale distribution of the simple verities so readily embraced by people who have lost or never had the tools for critical thought.

Despite the extent of their brainwashing, the American people are perceptive enough to know that our country is in desperate trouble. Unfortunately, the RW propaganda machine has successfully exploited the fear & anger by pinning the blame on those who still struggle against corporate fascism.

The challenge before us is enormous. Our very nature does not permit us to employ the same dishonest unscrupulous Bolshevik tactics, and we probably can't beat them at that game anyway. What is needed are a few major events that very clearly expose the truth that is on our side. But who knows what it will take when an event like the BP oil disaster in the Gulf has barely (if at all) changed public opinion (or the Obama administration) on the issue of offshore drilling.

I am by nature an optimist, but I am hard-pressed to find the silver lining here. Is it going to take a major collapse before we see real change -- or have the powers-that-be already anticipated that with a plan to exploit the chaos and complete their grip on POWER?

[FiveGoodMen]

343. Count me in!

America was almost getting left enough for me in the early '70s.

WAY too far right since then. And still getting worse.

[BrklynLiberal]

344. Here...

[pattmarty]

346. Single payer healthcare, fully paid public education K-16 (or equivelent)..........

.........tax churches, nationalize water/electric utilities......


YEP, COUNT ME IN.

[Desertrose]

347. I'm in....and don't forget universal healthcare.

and all the additions above.....

ETA- I think I'm probably way further left than you Lerkfish...certainly going "lefter" all the time.


:hi: old friends. :)

[bobburgster]

348. I consider myself liberal.

Not sure about the left wing part. I'm anti or pro everything you mentioned above except war. I can't give a blanket anti war, though the vast majority I am against.

[Deep13]

349. Also pro-environment, anti-imperial military, pro-civil rights...

pro-secular, pro-public education, pro-universal health care.

[skyounkin]

350. Check!

[LeftyMom]

352. I don't identify as a liberal becaue that's way too far to the right, if that says anything.

[Desertrose]

364. Yeah, it does...I know just what you mean.

Me too really.

[Chulanowa]

355. Here, with a few additions

Pro-intelligence, pro-science, Anti-racist, pro-Keynesian.

Call me a progressive and I'll choke you with my mind.

[onestepforward]

356. Checking in!

[Grassy Knoll]

358. Check ! n/t

[ProSense]

359. You forgot: pro dissent, pro free speech, pro civil rights. Speaking of pro union

For Air, Rail Workers, NMB Rule Means ‘Democracy’

A new rule issued this morning by the National Mediation Board (NMB) means airline and rail workers will now be able to choose whether to join a union under rules that are more fair and more in line with democratic principles.

For decades, the deck has been stacked against workers covered under the Rail Labor Act (RLA) because every worker who did not cast a vote in a representation election was automatically counted as a “No” vote. The new NMB rule says that an election’s outcome will be decided by the majority of votes cast, just like every other election, from city council to the presidency.

<...>

This is definitely worth celebrating.

[saracat]

568. And no pragmatism over principles!

[Cleita]

360. Me, but I'm further to the left than you.

I'm what was once called a real bleeding heart liberal, environmentalist, save the earth and all the creatures on it type of leftist.

[Oldtimeralso]

361. I as a Proud JFK Liberal,

As the than Senator stated on September 14, 1960:
"What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label, "Liberal"? If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But, if by a "Liberal," they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people - their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties - someone who believes that we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say that I'm a "Liberal."
But first, I would like to say what I understand the word, "Liberal," to mean and explain in the process why I consider myself to be a "Liberal," and what it means in the presidential election of 1960.
In short, having set forth my views - I hope for all time - 2 nights ago in Houston, on the proper relationship between church and state, I want to take this opportunity to set forth my views on the proper relationship between the state and the citizen. This is my political credo:
I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, and the human heart as the source of national compassion, and in the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, this faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith, for liberalism is not so much a party creed or a set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of Justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves."

[Joe Bacon]

362. Glad to check in

Last liberal in my family, sadly all the others worship the ground Palin walks on

[Joe Bacon]

363. Glad to check in

Last liberal in my family, sadly all the others worship the ground Palin walks on

[LanternWaste]

365. As labels go, I'm an FDR/Carter Democrat

Some people call me too liberal, while others may call me too conservative.

Seems to me that the definitions of both terms are much too vague, much to subjective, and have lost any real meaning they may have had in the past... being confined now to either pejoratives or badges of honor.

As far as the necessary labels go, I'm an FDR/Carter Democrat, but I don't really know how that stacks up to the trendy, new and improved, taste great less filling, techno-colored, uber-cynical political persuasions of the here and now.

[Glorfindel]

366. Oh, yes - I delight in being a left-wing liberal

n/t

[ooglymoogly]

368. Can you say beatljuice 3 times? kr nt

[FranMonet]

369. old timer

The older i get the more socialist I get. I say bring back the new deal and make twice as strong

[slay]

378. i'm with ya

do we really think the corporations are gonna "do the right thing"? or that they even care about us in the slightest? BP, haliburton, etc prove they won't and they don't. capitalism is destroying not only the country, but the planet.

*edited for spelling

[No Elephants]

740. Not capitalism. That's gone, if indeed it was ever really here. We're a plutonomy.

[vkkv]

370. True Blue

Through and through.

[slay]

372. sounds like me

and happy to be one. :toast:

[DebbieCDC]

373. Militant "liberal" here

[JoseGaspar]

374. Not Liberal - reborn radical.

Things could be worse.

You could be in Greece with a new job description: explaining to the other Greeks how things could be be even worse if Sarah Palinopolis were elected.

[lark]

375. Far left and proud of it

My husband says I'm never satisifed with anything politically, and he's right because this country always settles for keeping the military industrial status quo

[political_Dem]

377. Present!

[Cybergata]

380. People before profit!

Workers share in the profits, socialism rather than capitalism, taking care of the sick, the wounded, the handicapped, the young, the old and everyone in between, etc. Count this lurker in since 2001. I hug tree too.

[demigoddess]

381. pro universal single payer health care for everyone!!!

am I am sick of tuning into Chris Matthews or Ed Schultz and having to listen to the republican pundits more than our side. I guess I am for Equality on TV, also gay marriage and I think we should get rid of those charter schools and fully fund education.

[SpankMe]

382. Present. n/t

[Missy Vixen]

383. Me. Flaming liberal.

Of course, I realize that is not welcomed or encouraged in Today's Democratic Party.

Howard Dean still screams for me.

-MV

[Uncle Joe]

384. You rang?

Thanks for the thread, Lerkfish.

[Taverner]

385. Check - is this a loaded question? Because I still support Obama

[BigD_95]

386. im here

[grantcart]

387. Funny I always thought left wing liberals always rebelled against the orthodoxy of lists

Well I cannot accept your list because sometimes war is the answer.


I still applaud the brave forces of the Peoples Republic of Vietnam for having the guts to do what no one else would and invade Cambodia and defeat the Khmer Rouge in the field of battle and stop the daily torture and carnage that was killing tens of thousands every month.

War is evil but sometimes there is an even greater evil. Some folks live in a world where war is the most terrible thing possible. In the real world there are some things that are even worse than a limited war. I have seen it with my own eyes.

And for the record even if you qualify that one item I wouldn't want to be counted on a list.

The idea of folks gathering around and trying to establish an orthodoxy that will then be used to designate who is a 'true left wing liberal' makes me blanch. Now if you have a list of people that want to be engaged in open debate on progressive issues with no holds barred, add my name.

[Lerkfish]

the point of my OP was that I was beginning to feel crowded out here

by people who were espousing anti-union, pro drilling, stands, etc. I was wondering if there were any like me left. It seems there are some, like me, who post a lot less.

[femrap]

still here....

the more 'they' go right, the more Radical I become. And I didn't move.

[flakey_foont]

388. present

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

389. Far Left ...

So far left, I have no idea if I have a right side.

I don't even say your right, I say you're correct.

My friends say I'm Socialist, love it.

[No Elephants]

741. Welcome to Democratic Underground, LLC

I also now say "correct" instead of "right." However, I used to think I was moderate or centrist.

The Party of the Left moved towar the Incorrect, so now, I'm left, in more ways than one!

:toast:

[bobbolink]

390. Apparently I don't qualify, because POVERTY is on the top of my list.

It doesn't even figure on the lists of the "left".

:cry:

[Lerkfish]

468. no, that's fine -- my list was meant as abbreviated

by no means exhaustive, just examples of what I consider liberal stands. feel free to add more.

[bobbolink]

638. I know I am supposed to say "That's fine." But, please remember, this is ALWAYS

how these lists are... either poverty is completely left out, as in yours, or it is at the very bottom of a very long list, and even that is rare.

Just please think for a moment... if you were very poor... so poor that even your very existence is threatened, and you see time after time that you are invisible to those who claim to care.... really, wouldn't it finally get you down?

Be honest... wouldn't it get to you to be brushed aside constantly, and left by the side of the political road?

[Lerkfish]

771. um... well, I"m the next best thing. unemployed for 18 months

truly, I am deeply and humbly sorry for forgetting to mention every single item.

it does not mean I do not think they are important.

[goodhue]

391. Hello

Still lurking

[rainy]

392. checking in. nt

[TheKentuckian]

393. Yup yup. Pro economic fairness, anti-free trade, pro fair trade, pro individual self determination

, anti-police state, anti-theocracy, pro-peace whenever plausible, favor nationalizing non-competitive industries and service, pro-renewable energy, civil liberties hardliner.

[whatchamacallit]

394. "Leftbagger" here

:hi:

[Greyhound]

395. Present, with another accounted for...

although the other has dropped to "very part-time" since the takeover.
:kick: & 2R's

[GillesDeleuze]

396. All that AND A SOCIALIST!

check.

[h9socialist]

428. Good for you! Keep it up!

[Doc Martin]

397. Present

[No Elephants]

398. Apparently, I'm two vodkas short of Communism.

Until a few months ago, I considered myself a centrist because I'm patriotic and I'd like government to be more careful with our money. However, after posting at D.U. a while, it seems I'm a card carrying.........ACTUAL DEMOCRAT.

[Nothing Without Hope]

399. Count me. Add "anti-oligarchy" because Bill Moyers is all to right about this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8203281

With just six banks handling 60% of the US GNP, is there any wonder at what has been happening? Add the oil companies and other special interests, and you get a government that is too often driven by people who are bought and paid for. No wonder the Bush Supreme Court ruled that corporations have such "personal" rights.

[No Elephants]

744. We are a plutonomy, not an oligarchy. Just pass your money to those who have more than you and

quiet up.



I loved Bill Moyers' Journal.


:toast:

His "retirement" has left such a huge void.

[RedCappedBandit]

400. Word

:thumbsup:

[That Guy 888]

401. Count me in - (no text)

[flvegan]

402. My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[UndertheOcean]

403. Here ! n/t

[RedRoses323]

404. Always and forever.....

:headbang:

[ut oh]

405. Well the items you listed I'm definitely for

soooo.....?

[KonaKane]

406. Aye.

It looks to me like our numbers have been dwindling on DU, though I sure cannot prove it.

[DeeDeeNY]

409. Phil Ochs: LOVE ME, LOVE ME, LOVE ME, I'M A LIBERAL

These posts remind me of his song:

http://users.powernet.co.uk/hack/sleaze/love_me_liberal.html

[Cybergata]

806. Love me, love me, I'm . . .

a liberal, BUT don't ask me to live next door to a Mexican. ;-0

[EFerrari]

410. I don't think I qualify as a liberal any more.

The goalposts keep getting moved to the right so at the moment, I'm probably past social democrat territory and well into socialism.

[Irishonly]

448. I hear you

My views haven't changed a whole lot in the past thirty+ years. Now some look at me like I am a wide eyed, insane radical. Go figure

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

466. Liberals..

"The Fascists will shoot you.
The conservatives will applaud the Fascists.
The moderates will watch the executions on TV.
The Liberals will cry over your grave and feel guilty for turning you in to the Fascists."

SDS saying.

[Hardrada]

586. Dare to struggle! Dare to win!

Old SDS activist here!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

613. Vote in the Streets!

I still have that button.

[Hardrada]

646. I have a few also. One of them opposes the draft and another one

is against military recruiting on campus. And one just has the plain letters "sds" in lower case.
I remember when the buttons would make a statement and people would react one way or the other (or not at all which was the most common reaction unfortunately).

[laughingliberal]

709. SDS! Yes! eom

[EFerrari]

603. LOL.

[Heidi]

In the US, I'm way left wing. In Europe, I'm considered rational.

I just try to do and vote what I believe is right and be willing to make good on the checks my heart and mind write.

[tango-tee]

461. So true!

My family is third-generation Social Democrats in Germany, but I've recently switched over to the Left Party.

Even considering how moderate Social Democrats now are... whew. We'd really be out in literally left field in the U.S.

[shanti]

411. check

[Name removed]

412. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Richd506]

413. Me

[LSK]

414. HI

:hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

415. 2-300.

Watch out World!

:patriot:

[JSK]

416. Extreme Loony Leftist here. n/t

[tiredtoo]

417. you can count me in

I have lessened my computer time recently but still check this site daily.

[a kennedy]

418. ah yup, that's me too.....

:patriot:

[whathehell]

419. Here!....as far as "anti-war"...not a pacifist...but completely AGAINST any "war of choice" n/t

[RedCloud]

421. Knowing that radical means the root, I am

Red Cloud!

[Hubert Flottz]

423. "Anti war. Anti torture, Pro Union, Pro Choice,

Anti Unitary Executive, Pro Constitution

All of the above and more.

K @nd R

Republicans, even the nicest ones, SUCK!11!1!11!1!!11111!

[randr]

424. Checking in

Here for my freedom to pursue happiness!

[h9socialist]

426. Democratic Socialist

Member, Democratic Socialists of America, and mentored by the writings of Michael Harrington. Influenced heavily by green movement. Other influences include Jeremy Rifkin, Bill Greider, John Kenneth Galbraith, Robert Heilbroner, Juliet Schor, Barbara Ehrenreich, Cornel West, Robert Reich and E. F. Schumacher.

[earth mom]

427. Still here...

even if some people around here don't like it. :evilgrin:

Glad to see so many posts and recs on this thread! :woohoo:

[WinkyDink]

429. Count me in. (I think force is sometimes necessary to stem evil.)

[IrishEyes]

430. Life Long Liberal

I'm a liberal. I've always been one and I always will be. I come from a family that loves politics. I started arguing politics with my right wing conservative older brothers when I was six . I would tell them why Reagan was a bad president. My entire family is conservative. We don't shy away from politics. I'm used to having to argue politics when it is 5 to 1. My father lovingly calls me his left wing, pinko, commie daughter. He campaigned for Robert kennedy when he was younger but now he is a die hard republican. My brother called me to wish me a happy birthday and we ended up arguing the death penalty for three hours. I know my family is a little strange but I like it. I love my family but they are all rich conservative republicans and they aren't going to change.

[CherokeeDem]

431. Lefty, Here!

I tell people if they want to find me, go left as far as you can, and then turn left again. Thank goodness it looks like there are a few of us "lefties" left out there!

:kick:

[tkmorris]

432. Present

Normally I wouldn't check in on a thread like this, feels a lot like clapping my hands because the "applause" sign lit up, but hey. It's Lerkfish. If Lerkfish wants a show of hands, he's getting mine.

:toast:

[QC]

433. Checking in! n/t

[prairierose]

434. I'm still a democratic socialist and still here...

don't post much ; read some...am disappointed in the rw nonsense I see spouted here sometimes. I think the environment is one of the important issues we have to work on and we will have to go back to health care since what passed was just a corporate giveaway and not only did little to make health care available to millions but also did absolutely nothing to control costs so this for profit system will get out of control.

Back to being quiet now.

[tango-tee]

435. Me.

Here I am. Present and accounted for.

Solidarity!

[obietiger]

439. Checking in

I don't post much but I've been here for a long time. Still as "left wing" as ever. Actually, maybe more so.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

441. So I've read a lot of this thread, and I'm not sure where I fit

I've always considered myself liberal.

I think people, all people, should have food, clothing, warmth in the winter, a roof over their heads, an education and healthcare and I believe this should be true, no matter what the circumstance. I think this all falls under "promote the general welfare" and "ensure domestic tranquility".

I believe if we spent our energy and money on those things, we'd have happy people who wouldn't want wars, and who wouldn't want to waste money on the war machine, but more to benefit humanity and the enviroment.

Old hippy? Yeah, probably.

After that, I don't think much about politics. That's why I don't say much here, though I've been here for years. If I'm not fully versed on the subject, I tend to read and learn and keep my mouth shut.

[rug]

442. Count me in.

[defendandprotect]

443. Now that you have these 254 or more liberals checked in . . .

would be interesting to know if they're uniting in any way to combat any further

move by the party/Obama/DLC to the right?

For instance, have they cut off money for the party?

Are they supporting the fight against corporate "free speech/money"?

Are they interested in IRV voting?

And maybe you can think of even more interesting questions?

Meanwhile, good show!!

:)

[DRex]

444. Kick for lefties.

Because there are some things we just can't compromise on.

[peace frog]

445. Right here, dude

Still here, still leftie all the way.

[KansDem]

446. Include me, please.

Anti war. Anti torture, Pro Union, Pro Choice, Anti Unitary Executive, Pro Consitution balance of powers....

I believe national-security issues such as health, education, energy, defense, and the environment should not be left in the hands of private interests.

And life is a lot easier when you use reason and logic and not faith and emotion to form opinions...

[freddie mertz]

447. That would be me.

You betcha!

[greiner3]

449. Sorry;

I'm left of you.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

450. Yeah, but ...

I'm all for that sort of stuff.

We may disagree on other issues, like immigration, H-1B visas, outsourcing jobs, guns, and what makes a worthy pet.

:hi:

[vanboggie]

452. Here! Present! Waving!

I remember the 60's. Oh yeah, I'm on the far left of the scale - and damned proud of it. :hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

453. I'm here, and still opposed to war, torture, union-busting,

anti-choice, autocratic presidents, and unconstitutional abuses of power.

Not to mention outsourcing to low-wage, repressive countries
For-profit health care
The commercialization of American life
Imperialistic foreign policy or support for other nations' imperialistic policies


Yep, that's me.

Oh, and I have NO USE for politicians who HABITUALLY compromise with evil and call it "practicality."

[ChiciB1]

454. Been So "Down In The Dumps" Lately, But I Can See That Many Of Us

Liberals feel the same. I'm seeing some names here that I haven't seen in a long time. Perks me up some, but I think many of us have just been checking posts rather than posting these days.

I've been coming here to see what's going on, but have pretty much stopped chiming in. Now I see that so many others have been doing the same thing and somehow that says VOLUMES without posting a word!

This WH and DLC/DINO Democrats have made me rethink so many things about THE PARTY I had always felt so in tune with, and supported. Now, I'm floundering and I don't like it ONE BIT!! Too many questions with VERY FEW answers as to WHY the LURCH to the right has happened!

I understand change will always happen from generation to generation, but NEVER have I felt THIS PARTY could have moved so far to the right!

JMHO!!

[No Elephants]

745. Why did it happen? Because the left slept. Please see Reply ##s 482 and 741.

Time to rise and shine!

[ChiciB1]

783. I Agree That IT IS Time To Rise & Shine, However It Doesn't Seem That

we will have an audience that will listen. I certainly don't feel OUR PARTY from the TOP DOWN cares all that much!! Getting heard and having our voices responded to are almost non-existent!

When I was really very active here I called out for REAL ACTIVISM all the time, and yet here we sit! While I'm not going to say I'm sorry for my disagreement with what I feel is wrong these days, it DOES seem that many here feel that disagreement is almost treasonous!!

Every time I turn around I hear this WH supporting policies I NEVER thought it would. Add to that, we have too many Congress Critters who are either DLC, DINO'S OR CONSERVADEMS! At least that's how I see it and that's how I FEEL it!

I've tried so many times to push forward and contact the WH, Senators & Representatives, but to no avail! So to keep my sanity I feel a need to stop beating my head against the wall! Seems all I'm getting in return is a massive headache!

Do I WANT Obama NOT to succeed? I don't think so, but he keeps making decisions that make me scratch my head and wonder "what the hell" is going on!

And I suppose MONEY & GREED is driving most of it, but CHANGE should mean some head-banging now and then! I don't see it, and I'm tired of hearing "pretty speeches" only to see that in the end it was ONLY A SPEECH!

But before I get drawn into someone asking me to EXPLAIN what issues or why I'm so upset, I need to say that it's too bad that we need to link ad infinitum simply because I don't agree with policies that have made my head spin!

Just HCR makes me unhappy, but DADT, The Patriot Act, The Wars and other issues have made me question WHY these things keep looking like Repukes were in power!

I'm TIRED of arguing and TIRED of wondering what "we the people" can really do!

[Bluebear]

456. Absolutely.

[graywarrior]

457. Here

(Even if I support Obama?)

[Lerkfish]

551. sure thing. I support Obama

I just want him to change or address the issues in the above list.

[OwnedByFerrets]

458. For what its worth, checking in.

[Dr.Phool]

460. Damn straight I'm a liberal.

You've got a lot of people here anymore that think they're liberals, but they're actually conservative. What conservatives used to be, not these reactionary wing-nuts who call themselves "conservatives". Some of these self-anointed "liberals" could even be classified as Monarchists.

[Blue Owl]

463. One more

:patriot:

[ZombieHorde]

464. I am extremely liberal on most issues. nt

[latebloomer]

469. Here!

:hi:

[swilton]

470. Pro environment too!

[pundaint]

471. I'm here, but where did the party go?

[chill_wind]

472. Still here. n/t

[Nostradammit]

473. Checking in from Eugene

We shall overcome.

[opihimoimoi]

474. Me Too :o)

[japple]

475. Bleeding heart lefty liberal, here...

[MindandSoul]

476. Me!

[dlfuller]

477. check

check

[thereismore]

479. Yes, that would be me. nt

[ultracase24]

481. Im left of "left" liberal

agree with all above and also recognize that Capitalism is a predatory system that condones greed and the worst in human beings. Its true everything I needed to learn I learned in kindergarten. Sharing, caring for other people, helping others.

[Kermitt Gribble]

484. Here. n/t

[proudohioan]

486. Left wing/Democratic Socialist here; checking in. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

488. check, plus reasonable, but widespread regulation of financial institutions.

[newtothegame]

490. Plenty of folks here obsessed with the "history" the current administration made. But not...

so many liberals here unfortunately.

[a la izquierda]

491. my screen name says it all

[saracat]

492. Me! Me ! Me!

[fascisthunter]

494. dang!

that's a long list... yet we have no representation.

[Tailormyst]

495. I would consider myself a leftist

The only thing I am maybe not far left on is guns. I believe in strict gun control, but not an outright ban.

[davidwparker]

496. Right here

[Kitsune]

497. Still here, sometimes I wonder why.

I've signed up as a delegate for the state convention this June, but it's pretty much my last-ditch attempt to restore my faith in democracy in this country, and I don't expect it'll help much.

[amyrose2712]

499. way...

[readmoreoften]

501. Not many. The site has shifted to the extreme right of the Democratic Party.

Which is just to the left of Reagan in terms of economics and foreign policy, and just to the right of Nixon.

[liberation]

510. That is the scary truth...

... under any objective measure, most of Clinton's policies were to the right of Nixon's. And I found that ever so depressing.

I am not a believer that a single political ethos has all the answers. But when a "democracy" like ours, has only offered a moderate conservatie (Dems) and insane reactionary conservative (GOP) as the only two viable electoral choices during the better part of 4 decades... I think we have to face the fact that somewhere somehow something went incredibly wrong.


Such lack of political diversity is diametrically opposed to a functioning democracy. And I don't think many people in this country want to make that honest assessment about our real state of affairs.

[katandmoon]

504. K&R. And pro Miranda rights

[BalanceFish]

506. Right here

Of the Gen Y variety

[Emillereid]

507. Check! But I don't post very much because I decided it wasn't worth my time

to get into stupid arguments with people who don't read or reason carefully.

[eridani]

508. All of that plus single payer health care n/t

[Capitalocracy]

509. Count me in. Don't know why it's so "far out" to want accountability, rule of law, and good gov.

:eyes:

[superduperfarleft]

511. None of that even remotely makes you "left-wing."

With the exception of pro-union, many of those could be beliefs held by your most ardent libertarian.

[Kitty Herder]

512. checking in.

:hi:

[Plucketeer]

513. ME!!! ME!!! ME!!!

and my spouse too!!!

[Enthusiast]

515. I'm in.

Pro environment, pro labor, anti torture, anti war, pro choice, anti unitary executive and anti-corporate person-hood.

[SusanaMontana41]

516. Present!

Liberal for the long haul.

[justinaforjustice]

517. Chavez Democrat Here. (American in Venezuela)

The people of Venezuela have passed a Constitution which provides a right to free medical care, free public education to the doctoral level, adequate nutrition and housing for all. It provides the right to unionize and to a living wage for all workers.

The labor laws actually have a presumption in favor of the workers. The law against domestic violence includes psychological violence, prohibits sexual harassment in the work place, and even prohibits intimidation by medical personnel during child birth. Services, such as psychological counseling, alternative housing, job training and childcare are provided to victims of domestic violence.

The Chavez government is in the process of replacing an inhuman capitalist system, which puts profits above all else, with a human system that puts fulfilling human needs and encouraging human development above all else.

We desperately need to do likewise in the U.S. -- to abolish the capitalist economic system and create a social system which meets human needs and allows individuals to develop their talents and creativity.

[PDittie]

518. Here.

edit: Put me down as "Socialist".

[Twitch14]

519. Present, but mostly lurk n/t

[Utopian Leftist]

521. Ditto

Lurk, rarely post.

Life long liberal here.

Ronnie Raygun's Voodoo Economics is what led us to this point in history. Can people finally start to get the meme across that the Supply Side, trickle-down theory has been DISCREDITED!?! If not, then we're shit out of luck.

[elehhhhna]

524. I AM STILL HERE AND EVEN TEXAS CAN'T drag me away

FroM THE UPBRINGING (& probably IQ) that caused me to become a bleeding fucking heart LIBERAL. WHen my Reep aquant.'s and Boss and coworkers ask me what I think of Obama I tell them that he's not LIBERAL ENOUGH for me and that shuts them up and leaves them dazed. It's actually kinda fun.

Sorry about the caps.

K&R

[elehhhhna]

525. I AM STILL HERE AND EVEN TEXAS CAN'T drag me away

FroM THE UPBRINGING (& probably IQ) that caused me to become a bleeding fucking heart LIBERAL. WHen my Reep aquant.'s and Boss and coworkers ask me what I think of Obama I tell them that he's not LIBERAL ENOUGH for me and that shuts them up and leaves them dazed. It's actually kinda fun.

Sorry about the caps.

K&R

[Lugnut]

526. Here!

:hi:

[Uzybone]

527. yep. Agree with all the above

most of those positions are actually mainstream.

[tbyg52]

528. As far left as you can get, or at least I try. nt

[avaistheone1]

530. Proud, progressive liberal who grows more left each day.

[southpaw]

532. That sounds like me!

Still here. Still proud to be a left wing liberal.

[Better Believe It]

533. Here!

[debunkthelies]

536. Check

Adding........Pro-Honesty, integrity, honor, dignity, fairness and justice in all things for everyone.:patriot:

[rasputinkhlyst]

538. checking in

And Pro Prisoner's rights, Pro Civil Rights, Pro Human Rights, Pro Regulation of Corporations, Pro Public Financed Elections, Pro progressive taxation, Pro unlimited litigation against corporate abuses, and lots more.

[Number_Six]

540. Roger, copy!

n/t

[bluescribbler]

541. Far Left Liberal here

All that and more.

[Downtown Hound]

542. I've called myself a liberal

I've called myself an anarchist. Once upon a time, I even called myself a libertarian.

All I am now is interested in a better world. A world that puts people before corporations, compassion before greed and the bottom line, the environment above profit, human rights above fear, hope over despair.


I'll stand with anybody that feels the same, whether its liberals, anarchists, socialists, Democrats, or Martians. Whatever that makes me, that's what I am.

[mac56]

543. checkity check check

:thumbsup:

[saracat]

544. Gee, from the vote count, and the reappearance of many long silent

it appears that the very vocal pragmatist arm is a minority!

[MikeMc]

546. The War and Peace of Threads

This could be a plot by the right-wing power brokers: have all DU lefties report in, then round them up whilst they are busy reading the 8 million responses ... Wait, I have to answer my doorbell...

[Whisp]

547. I am for the things you listed, but what comes after the elipses? nt

[Lerkfish]

550. suggest something...

others have had fine suggestions in the thread. I did not mean the list to be comprehensive, just a suggestion of items that mean "liberal" to me.

[kimmerspixelated]

548. That's me! QUite to the left of the "left "without being too nutz.

[PurgedVoter]

549. You mean, reasonable people?

I think we are still the heart of of DU.

[caty]

552. >>>>>

Here!

[Bitwit1234]

553. Me me me

[skeptical cynic]

555. Still where I have been

Watching the Democratic party sink over the horizon to the Right.

[SnoopDog]

561. Proud Progressive/Liberal here....

[Vincardog]

562. checkty check

[rhett o rick]

564. I am here. nm

[JanMichael]

565. Far far far far LEFT here. nt.

[Duer 157099]

566. Hand raised HIGH!!

Me! Me! Me!

[highplainsdem]

570. Still here. K&R.

[Mr Rabble]

571. Good to see you LF.

I am among this crowd.

[I Have A Dream]

572. Count me in. nt

[jgraz]

573. yep

[Tansy_Gold]

575. "You say I'm a socialist like it's a bad thing. Sorry, but I'm quite proud of it."

Waaaaaaaay left.



Tansy Gold

[Dr.Phool]

582. If you look to your left

You'll find me.

About as leftist as you can get!

[Tansy_Gold]

623. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

:hi:

[DutchLiberal]

581. I think I would be considered a communist in the US...

But I'm really a leftist liberal. But I will be voting for the Socialist Party in the June 9 elections in the Dutch parliamentary elections.

[tango-tee]

665. Hi neighbor!

I'm from Germany, solidly Social-Democratic family for three generations, but voted Left Party in the past two elections.

:toast:

[BlueJazz]

585. Left is the civilized way to think.

:)

[1776Forever]

587. Standing tall for Pro Constitution balance of power - will we ever see it again?

Fight on!

[No Elephants]

750. Totally depends upon whom you'll fight and how hard you'll work in order to get it back.

We've reached this point because the left slept (and/or suffered from inertia) while the "win a Presidential election at any cost" crowd took over. Please see Reply ##s 482 and 741.

Now that the DLC is in charge, from the DNC and the WH down to state parties that are freezing liberals out in favor of incumbents, no one is going to give the left what the left wants until the left starts being loud and very, very active. If we keep suffering from inertia, that same crowd will continue to pull the nation--including you and me--to the right.

[Agony]

589. All Check and add... Anti-Corporate Personhood and regulate the heck out of em'

The DLC and Neo-Liberals can go to heck.

We our need our extreme level of economic inequality checked HARD.

Cheers!
Agony

[booksenkatz]

590. Feeling alone here... anti gulags, no due process. NT

[MrScorpio]

591. Me, baby!

Me!

[deacon_sephiroth]

592. Hey yo! n/t

[pmorlan1]

594. Checking in here, boss

Nice to see the rest of you here.

[Nikki Stone1]

595. The party just keeps moving right....

:(

[Norrin Radd]

596. kr

[Dappleganger]

597. What about pro-public education?

It's appalling just how much the anti-public ed people are tolerated on this forum.

[Esse Quam Videri]

598. Present

Checking in.

[pitohui]

599. i dunno, i'm considered pretty far to the left by most who know me

but by the standards of DU apparently i'm "centrist" because i voted for obama and eat...gasp!...animals

of your list, every decent person is "anti torture," even a conservative could be anti torture, there are some things that go beyond left or right -- the person who is "pro torture" is just plain there's something badly wrong w. them

i'm aga. the war in iraq but think war is sometimes required because bad people don't knock it off just because you asked nicely, i hope that's far left enough for you -- who knows how long the slaughter might have continued in the baltics without the bosnian war, for example? war is something you take on a case by case basic, you don't just say hey war stinks, i'm agin it, that's taking the cheap way out

pro union, pro choice, etc. of course...no genuine leftist is anti union or anti choice, the chance to organize freely for decent working conditions, the chance to control one's own body and family planning -- these are core values, freedom is simply not a reality when your boss can do anything he likes to you and pay you shit, freedom is simply not a reality when chance or a rapist decides when/if you're going to raise a family...

on the topic of women, even tho women have passed from fashion...

one reason i'm considered to be so far to the left is that i'm saddened that feminism is essentially dead for any woman who is not from a privileged background, young women today know damn well that working hard and getting a degree will get them a low paid job like always, they just have to pay more to get that job than they did because of the high cost of that piece of paper, most of them seem to accept that the only thing they have to "sell" that has any chance of making them rich is their looks, youth, and bodies -- it saddens me but apparently it is not supposed to sadden me that young women, in the 21st century, are still not valued for anything but their bodies -- to express this idea is to get myself called some kind of radical in all kinds of way, because apparently it is going against biology or some such shit to wish that young women of all backgrounds (not just rich and upper upper middle w. the very best connections) would have the chance to get somewhere in life using their BRAINS


as i say i seem to be too left to suit real life and not left enough to suit the che followers on the internet, so whatever...we all have to find our own way

[No Elephants]

747. I voted for Obama and I eat meat. Many here consider me far left.

IMO, if nothing Obama has done has disappointed you so far, you are either not really keeping up or not really liberal, let alone "left wing liberal. Or maybe you're just in denial. (I am using "you" generically, not to mean you in particular.)

Ditto, if you think everything is either pro or anti Obama, or somehow about Obama. There were liberals long before Obama was born and there'll be liberals long after he and all of us are long dead. So, whether or not you voted for Obama is pretty much rrelevant to whether you are a liberal or not.

On the other hand, if you find yourself compromising or shifting a position on an issue because of something Obama did or did not do, you just may be more of an unconditional Obama loyalist than you are a liberal. Liberals tend to stick to principles, not personalities, or even Parties. I'd vote for a dead yellow dog before I'd vote for a Republican. Doesn't mean I won't ever think a Democrat is dong wrong, though. And say so.

I don't know if Lerkfish would say the same, though, and it's his thread, not mine. Just wanted to say voting for Obama or eating meat has nothing to do with it. For that matter, I know vegans who are far right politically--anti choice, income bracket Republicans, etc.

[Lerkfish]

776. If I could recommend a single post, I would this one.

I would not only say the same, I'd say it a lot more clumsily.
Your brevity and succinct analysis is a gem.

[Omaha Steve]

601. Me too

K&R!

[sam sarrha]

602. present... and here is why..Link>> ...this is the "Entitlements" we need to end

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

"...The Wealth Distribution
In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010)..."

[1gobluedem]

604. Check

Yes to all.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

605. I'm still here.

So count me in.
:hi:

[AllyCat]

606. Here! And I'll add pro-environment and for single-payer healthcare

[Submariner]

607. Have been a Liberal forever

As far as I'm concerned, the adage about getting more conservative as one grows older has always been a diaper-load of crap to me.

[songbookz]

608. Independent, Christian, Liberal, Socialist

[Atticus]

609. I'm a tiny blue dot in the red ocean that is southern Illinois, but I persist. nt

[theFrankFactor]

610. I Get Regularly Deleted Here So, Yeah, I'm the Enemy.

I have very unpopular views:

Obama sold out to Pharma

Obama sold out to insurance

Obama picked financial industry insiders to dole out trillions of tax payer dollars

Obama forms a committee of social program hating nuts to handle Social Security and Medicare

Obama backs off shore drilling

I feel that from the outset our Hope and Changer sold us out. I find him a no-go-showboat. He had a strong wave of popularity that he promptly threw in the shitter. I believe he is doing exactly what he "wants" to do. I do not believe he increased his capital and furthered our... well, my, Progressive ideals. A fine stand up comedian though.

This may get deleted.

[theFrankFactor]

763. Apologies

I see that this was not intended to be about Barack Obama, I'm just responding infestation of Obamacrats (people who will accept anything he does as somehow and in someway "Liberal") around here. Unfortunately, it appears you must accept and play along or be ever so ginger about calling our Lord's actions into question. I find this tact pathetic and not very "Left" or "Liberal" in and of its self. I was hoping that one of the most popular "Democratic" forums on the Internet would be the best and first place for the baste to call out the elected. But apparently you need to start a new site for that. Amazing and disheartening how similar the psychology and behavior of the "mainstream" Democrats mirrors the Republicans and their once brazen support Of George W. Bush, whom they now claim was never a "conservative" or a Republican.

I wonder if after Barack fucks the Democratic party all to hell if these same cheer leaders will run from their embarrassment too?

[ima_sinnic]

611. checking in--still waiting for corporate personhood to end & war criminals/profiteers & traitors

to face a firing squad, for pot to be legal, for oil to go the way of the dinosaurs, and a bunch of other stuff that the soulless corporatists are too greedy, corrupt, inhumane, and stupid to put through.

[Prana69]

612. Present.

[scarletwoman]

614. I'm not "checking in", I'm posting my objection to your premise.

"Liberal" does NOT equate to "Left", and there are a plethora of posts from self-proclaimed "liberals" on this thread that amply illustrate this point.

I refuse to call myself a "liberal" anymore. Both "liberal" and "left wing" are basically meaningless terms -- literally meaningless, because there are NO empirical, objective agreed-upon definitions of those terms.

It's all subjective. I read every single post on this thread before writing my own response, and what I've seen is all over the map. People confuse socially liberal with economic left. There's no coherence, there's no definition. It's just a grab-bag of subjective personal preferences and pet issues. Essentially no evidence (excepting a paltry and extremely rare few posters) of an actual mature developed political philosophy or economic theory.

Count me out.

sw

[Lerkfish]

775. objection noted

and you make a valid point. I'll be happy to count you out.

[McCamy Taylor]

615. Flaming Marxist reporting for duty, sir!

[bluestateboomer]

616. Here!

:patriot: :hippie: :hi:

[martymar64]

617. Right here.

I stand by my principles.

[ejbr]

618. k & r n/t

[Chemical Bill]

619. Present n/t

[601Liberal]

620. me!

I'm not a tree hugger or an animal rights activist, but I can subscribe to everything else.

[shellgame26]

621. I'm kinda more worried

about the huge ecological disaster taking place at this very minute and what I can actually do about it rather than passing some little pissy junior high purity test that you've created. In other words BEING A REAL LIBERAL IS IN YOUR ACTIONS not empty declarations meant to divide people.

[Lerkfish]

774. um, you really didn't get the point, but that's ok.

I'm worried about it, too.
I"m also worried about state-sanctioned torture.

can I not worry about a lot of things?

[mirrera]

622. k&r

[bvar22]

625. bvar22 checking in...proud me,ber of the "Fucking Retards" Wing.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a REAL "Democrat".
It is those DLC "Centrist" usurping traitors to "Democratic Values" who are on the outside, and should just go back to their ideological twins in the Republican Party.


I absolutely OPPOSE:
*Increasing the Power and Wealth of For Profit Corporations.

*Increasing Military Spending (Decrease by 50% immediately)

*Continuing the phony WAR in the Middle East (Out Now)

*A Free Pass for War Criminals and Torturers


I absolutely SUPPORT:
*Medicare for anyone who wants it

*The immediate break-up (Trust Busting) of everything "Too Big to Fail".

*Fair Competition Legislation that lets Mom&Pop (small locally owned businesses and farms) compete with Big Box and Factory Farms on a level playing field.

*An end to "Free Trade" (Race to the Bottom)

*Organized LABOR and local co-ops.

*An end to the two-tiered Judicial System

*Prosecution of rich American War Criminals and War Profiteers. (Oh yes they did!)

*An END to "Corporate Personhood"

*Strictly Enforced Publicly Financed Elections (severe penalties for criminals)

*Transparent and Verifiable elections (Why isn't this a front burner issue with the Democratic Party?)

*Re-Regulation with strict oversight of Banking/Investment, Transportation, Communications, Trade, Energy, Utilities, Insurance.

*NO Public Money for private Prisons, armed Private Police, armed Defense Contractors, private intelligence agencies. Or For Profit Health Insurance Corporations.

*Immediate Civil Rights and Equal Protection for ALL. (No Exceptions)

*Free Quality Universal Education to everyone who wants it.

*Strong Social Safety Net and Consumer Protections.

*An end to The Patriot Act and a return to The Constitution.(especially Habeas and privacy protections)

*A refutation of the "Unitary Executive", and legislation to ensure it NEVER happens again.

*An END to Republican/Corporate influence INSIDE The Democratic Party !
(NO! They DON"T deserve a seat at the table!)


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[urgk]

626. Check. (n/t)

[M_A]

628. so far left I'm socialist :)

[bertman]

629. Pissed-off, proud, leftwing LIBERAL checking in.

[Drunken Irishman]

631. I've been told I'm not a liberal. So I can't check in, sorry.

[femmedem]

632. Most of these "liberal" traits used to be just "American."

But yes, I'm checking in. My Facebook page lists my political views as "When you reach liberal, turn left."

[scentopine]

633. yes! pro-worker, anti-outsourcing, pro-fairness doctrine, anti-monopoly...

sadly, today's democrat closely resembles the 1980s neo-con. I'd argue that the neo-dem is a hybrid comprising the worst elements of neo-con (war, military uber-alles) and neo-lib (outsourcing, relying on the kindness of corporations aka "free" market).

America can be proud that we have so many technologically advanced ways to slaughter large numbers of people (and viewed in the abstract this would include our for profit health system failure), beyond that we are selling ALL of our intellectual property to Asia for pennies on the dollar and contributing to ecological disaster worldwide.

[cachukis]

634. check

[autorank]

635. Checked in k*r!!!!!!!!!

[Tsiyu]

636. Far Left here

Don't give a damn what grownups do in the privacy of their own homes, do give a BIG damn what people in authority over other people and resources do in the privacy of their executive offices, courtrooms, prisons and schools.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

637. Yo!

[tosh]

640. Here!! nt.

[waiting for hope]

641. I'll agree to this ..

"Anti war. Anti torture, Pro Union, Pro Choice, Anti Unitary Executive, Pro Consitution balance of powers...." but I would like to say, those are stances any decent human being would take, someone with empathy and compassion. I've got so tired of labels lately, we really need to be on the same page that all of us are in this together.

[humbled_opinion]

642. Well lets see we are defined by...

our Opposition and they have labled a centrist moderate like Obama to be a Far Left Radical Marxist, then I guess I am probably off their charts.

[proReality]

643. Me

I'm here, but I'm posting little.

[NC_Nurse]

644. Me too.

[Usrename]

645. Count me in.

Although I have recently done a 180 on my views on capital punishment. It's self-defense,really.

Heads on pikes!!!!

[Child_Of_Isis]

647. Reporting! eom

[shireen]

649. still here!

:hi:

:)

[eyeofdelphi]

652. here!

and glad to see so many others as well

[LWolf]

655. I'm here. nt

[unkachuck]

656. yep....n/t

[awoke_in_2003]

657. i am still here...

puzzled, but here.

[tavalon]

658. Sounds like me

[kestrel91316]

659. Leftish leftie here.

[bowens43]

660. liberal socialist

I am definitely on the left

[Faryn Balyncd]

661. Those are American values. I'm old enough that I remember when even conservatives supported most or

....all of them.


Isn't it interesting that now support of constitutional balance of powers and rejection of unitary executive theory is now considered "far left"?




:kick:

[No Elephants]

757. No, not far left, just left of center. Far left is still Communism. Slightly less far left is

Socialism.

Just because the batshit stupids of the RW, like Palin, say Obama is far left doesn't mean it's so. Then again, some of them think dinosaurs walked the earth alongside Adam and Eve.

You wouldn't say that's now considered scientific truth, would you? So why do you take any dumbass's word for what is far left and what is simply classicly Democratic?

We're not Communists or Socicalists or "hard left" or any of that bs. We're simply the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

I thank God the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party still exists and hope it grows and fights. Otherwise, the likes of Ensign is our future.

[donheld]

662. .

:hi:

[snot]

663. Count me.

[caseymoz]

664. Me!

Anti-executive power, pro choice, anti-war, pro-separation of church and state, anti-torture, pro-breakup the military industrial complex . . .

I guess you'd say I'd vote a straight ticket.

[Swamp Rat]

666. In other words, Pro-America

:patriot:

[Lerkfish]

773. amen, brother, amen.

[SaveAmerica]

667. Pro healthcare reform, pro people, anti energy dependancy

[Hissyspit]

668. Here. nt

[ncliberal]

669. Here! nt

[Naked_Ape]

670. Here! nt

[Slit Skirt]

671. far leftie here...and damn proud of it

[Subdivisions]

672. Checking in... n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

673. :) hi!

:hi:

still on fire (flaming liberal) and going strong.

[Kickin_Donkey]

675. Leftist here ...

I cut my teeth in Berkeley ...

[Celtic Merlin]

676. Based on those criteria:

"Anti war. Anti torture, Pro Union, Pro Choice, Anti Unitary Executive, Pro Consitution balance of powers...."

I'm a "Left Winger" and I'm proudly CHECKING IN.

Celtic Merlin
Carlinist

[Truth2Tell]

677. Reporting for duty Fish.

:patriot:

[Imalittleteapot]

678. click

[TexasObserver]

680. Yep.

[pitchforksandtorches]

681. how about us commies?

[neverforget]

683. Here!

[William Z. Foster]

684. here

Left, not liberal.

[willing dwarf]

685. Count me in!

I just wish we could count the Democratic party as being on our side for real.

[IDemo]

687. liberal lefty moonbat here, checking in

:toast:

[LearnedHand]

688. and pro human rights! check

[suffragette]

689. Yep and proud of it

And I can't help but think of the women in the projects where I lived as a kid, the ones who struggled along on not much, but who had each other and were the ones who organized and created a community, then an actual community center.

Standing on their shoulders and the shoulders of those before them.

[mrmpa]

690. with you

[november3rd]

692. Pro-environment, too

Registered Socialist here.

[Stardust]

693. Checking in. As liberal as they come...

[Turk 182]

Another "Leftie" Checking In

pro separation of Church and State

[nolabear]

694. Is this where we post on the thread that never dies? Oh, and "check"

[varelse]

695. I'm still here

:P

[rucky]

697. Sounds like common sense to me, but...

left winger, here

:hi:

[juajen]

698. I'm still here. NT

[wial]

701. well, I'm progressive, civil libertarian,

believe the government agencies that compromise between business interest "stakeholders" and legislators are unholy, so I'm not sure I fully qualify as liberal, and I think American unions are pathetically limited in their vision of social justice, but I certainly believe all beings have a right to happiness, and for humans in the meantime, food shelter clothing and medicine. Also I've never encountered any spokesperson on the right who isn't a hateful, nonsensical bozo, and they seem to be getting even worse lately.

good enough?

[GiveMeFreedom]

702. My .02

I am in. Liberal enough to piss a Rethug off.

[Jakes Progress]

703. Yo.

Got your leftie right cheer.

Guiding principle: When in doubt, turn left.

[daughter of liberty2]

704. Here, here!!

:woohoo:

[GrannyK]

705. Count me in. N/T

[lonestarnot]

706. Check!

[johnnyplankton]

708. YUP!

[Patchuli]

711. Lefter than left

since I was a wee young one. This tiger's never going to change her stripes! :patriot:

[donco6]

712. Still here. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

714. present

[calimary]

715. Here! Proud union member, too!

Everything else you listed too. And ARDENTLY pro-choice!

[Maraya1969]

716. Tree hugging liberal here

[neobeetle]

717. *raises hand*

Bashing right wing trolls daily!

[NBachers]

718. Right here in San Francisco's Mission District

By way of an Erie Canal town, Kalamazoo, Miami, and some Fed time- Still proud leftist and proud to call myself a liberal.

[Senator]

723. Sorry, but I'm virtually gone. Because "anti-torture" is not really on "our" list any more.

And since it's not really there, the rest of the list becomes selfish and trivial by comparison.

It's all just arranging deck chairs...

---

[sabrina 1]

812. It's on my list, near the top after illegal wars

I'm sure it's on the list of the OP also.

The list it is NOT on is the Democratic Party's as the current DOJ goes ahead with the military commissions trial of a tortured child soldier.

Despicable is not the word and unless someone puts a stop to it, I will conclude that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. Torture is the line for me.

[meowomon]

724. Lefty to the core

Bring on the progress!

[liberalla]

725. count me as one!

[tencats]

727. Here and I'm absolutely Liberal

[AllenVanAllen]

731. Yo.

Progress, I believe in progress.

[joshdawg]

732. count me in

[ClayZ]

733. I am so far left I am about to fall off!

Checking in! K and R

[gtar100]

734. Here

And wretchedly sick of the ugliness of right-wing conservatives and fundamentalists.

[Mac1949]

736. Old line 60s left wing semi-radical...

right here with you.

[Divine Discontent]

739. unfortunately, our president cannot check-in on this thread... just sayin'

[CakeGrrl]

802. He could if he wanted to...but I don't think he has the time

Just sayin'. Where's the gatekeeper? While we're at it, how do you know he DIDN'T already post here? Ooooooo!

:crazy:

This is why I don't like these "check-in" threads. They're purely subjective and really not indicative of anything other than wanting to be a member of a cyber-club.

As I've said elsewhere, what if I don't check in? What's the "penalty"? Will the OP see my name and consider me one of the "others", or am I not well-known or high-ranking or generally well-regarded enough to matter in the first place?

People post, they disagree, they have viewpoints that are not 100% ideologically lockstep. Are they "liberal enough", or are we headed down Teabagger Alley, discarding anyone who is deemed NOT to be?

[Divine Discontent]

808. so are you part of our cyber-club for this thread or NOT???

lol.... :hug:

[Bluebear]

826. (not)

:)

[Raoul]

746. It's an oxymoron

You're either a leftie or a liberal but I don't think you can be both at the same time.

[barbtries]

748. i'm still here

:hi:

[SemperEadem]

749. Me--Liberal and progressive and not ashamed to say so

I have nothing about which to be ashamed because I choose to be liberal/progressive.

[Yuugal]

751. We are still here

Just because the same 10-15 posters work 24/7 to make it appear they are more numerous, don't believe it.

[quaker bill]

752. here n/t

[gleaner]

754. Me too ....

An aging boomer who cut her teeth on protesting in the 60s, and who still sees a great need for an effective liberal agenda sooner rather than later.

[madokie]

755. All I know for sure is there's not enough of us

I'm so far left that I have to do a 180 just to make a 90 :-)

reply 755, geez louise
at least that is encouraging.

[kdmorris]

756. I'm still here

Good to see you, Lerkfish

(and everyone else)

and Eferrari is right. The goal posts get moved so much we are probably all considered socialists now.

[RKP5637]

760. +1, +++ all sounds good to me! n/t

[Octafish]

765. Here!

Sorry I'm late for the party.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to Democrats standing up for Liberalism?

During the presidential debates, the pukes hammered Gore, Kerry and Obama as "Liberal."

None of them said, "So what? It's good to be a Liberal. Liberals founded this country and almost all the progress over the past 230 years is the result of Liberals."

That would've been nice.

[placton]

767. on DU? hanging on by my fingertips

but don't see things the same way as some here, I guess.

[MJongo]

768. Here!

I'm a liberal in the tradition of philosopher John Rawls: Justice as Fairness. The right wing spreads the lie that if you aren't successful, it is because you are lazy and do not deserve society's support. The reality is that in a free-market capitalist society, people born in poor families do not have the opportunities or resources to rise above poverty. I am in favor of whatever policies benefit the least well off the most. That does not necessarily mean all inequalities should be done away with, as some can benefit everyone (for example, doctors and teachers being paid higher wages than other jobs in order to encourage the profession), but policies that make well off people even better off at the expense of the less well off will get no support from me. Because people do not choose their status, rather they are born into it, I think it is only just to make the world as fair a place as possible.

[PufPuf23]

769. Present nt

[kpominville]

777. Present

and accounted for.

[Lerkfish]

778. thank you all... I am overwhelmed and encouraged

I was starting to feel we were being choked out here at DU.

I am encouraged to see so many names I admire chiming in.

and to those who think I was doing a litmus test or a purity test, I wasn't. I was just feeling really down because all the threads I kept reading here lately espoused views that in my opinion were anithetical to a liberal or left wing view -- like supporting offshore drilling (oops), ignoring torture in our named, getting down on teacher's unions, etc,, etc.

I was posting less and less myself, so wondered if a lot of people had just evaporated, were posting less, or if I was wrong.

Thank you all, even those who disagreed with this thread for chiming in....

:hugs: :grouphug:

[Echo In Light]

792. And well timed! Kudos

[liberal_at_heart]

780. progressive left wing liberal checking in

[cottonseed]

781. Here! add Pro Weed, Anti Isreali Aid, Anti Petroleum, Pro Victory Gardens, Pro Holistic Healing!!

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

793. Here, sir.

Kick!

[smirkymonkey]

794. I am - unlike most of the current Democrats in office.

[QC]

796. Looks like there's quite a few of us still here.

You are welcome to put me on your list of orthodox leftist liberals, by the way.

I promise not to throw a drama tantrum about it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

798. Hey, all you leftists ---

Would you all please post here more often?????

It gets mightly lonely here some days -- thank the gods there are a handful or more leftist diehards who seem to do all the heavy lifting on threads here.

We need your voices and I need to know there are still Dems out there who are not OK with the continuing civil rights abuses and wars.

[Echo In Light]

800. +1000

[muffin1]

803. +1,000,000

We need your voices desperately. :)

[freddie mertz]

810. Let me second or third this.

Progressive voices are increasingly drowned out by the conservative tide these days.

It is approaching critical mass, and if some of the good people would stop by to lend a hand, there might be hope for the "underground" yet.

[tekisui]

799. Kicking for Lefties. Conservatives (from both parties) be damned.

[freddie mertz]

811. Agree with this sentiment.

K & R.

[Ardent15]

801. Checking in

nt

[bobthedrummer]

804. !!!

:hi:
:patriot:

Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

[MzNov]

805. Absolutely

emphasis on ANTI-WAR and ANTI-Free Trade

Totally disgusted with congressional "Democrats". I seriously doubt that the people who win elections and go to Washington have a clue about the real issues of America and how to reverse the damage of the lunatic right wing, esp. Bush/Satan years of de-regulation.

I prefer the term Progressive although I don't really care. To me it goes beyond some of the hypocritical shit the liberals do.

[unapatriciated]

813. check and kick

[stranger81]

818. Still here.

Posting less, and checking in less, but still here.

[liberalpress]

820. Well...

all of that, plus if it includes "Don't really give a crap who you share your sexual organs with" then I'm in.

[andym]

821. The results of a progressive quiz, showed the vast DU majority that participated to be ultra liberal

or "extremely progressive" as the quiz scores indicated.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7349242

If one looks carefully, one observes both DU supporters and critics of the current administration to have extremely progressive scores.

[Blue_In_AK]

822. Present. n/t

[lovely]

824. Checking in!

[Onceuponalife]

825. Left-liberal checking in.

Pro separation of church and state. Anti imperialist, anti fascist.

[The Damned]

827. What you're really asking is.....

...are there any true liberals left, right? :-)

[demmiblue]

828. Proud liberal checking in!

:D

[QC]

829. KICK!

[eleny]

830. Left wing liberal here

[PA Democrat]

831. Too late to recommend, but count me in!