Is our economy based largely on slave labor?

[Philosoraptor]

In modern America, we have all of our manufacturing done overseas, where labor is not only cheaper, in many cases, it's slave labor. Our Mexican slaves are called 'guest workers', and they work very hard and then they are sent back to Mexico. It's become difficult to find any products made here at home, and CEO's get stinking rich.

How is this different than the economy of the pre civil war south, which also thrived because of slavery?

Am I cheapening the meaning of the word slavery? I know that slaves were never payed, only fed and housed, which is about all modern day slaves work for.

I'd like to see all of our manufacturing come back home, we need jobs too. I'd like to see an end to corporate slavery, just like child labor was ended in America.

[Codeine]

1. Wow.

Just. . . wow.

[lib2DaBone]

2. Until Elected officials go to Washington to serve the people...

.. not the gangster Capitalists.. nothing will change.

[Hannah Bell]

3. yes.

[LARED]

4. I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning....

it smells like Victory!!!!!

[patrice]

15. Isn't it also hyperbole to discount realities of which you could be almost completely unaware?

[LARED]

30. I'm unaware of that use of hyperbole

Could you use it in a sentence?

[patrice]

33. Darel's naive assumptions about the benefits of so-called Free Market Capitalism were hyperbolic.

[LARED]

37. Nah, just doesn't fit the definition of hyperbole, plus

this guy Darel is going to be irritated that someone was making assumption about him.

[patrice]

39. So, why are assumptions abot Darel less permissable than assumptions about OP?

i.e. hyperbole is not an assumption?

[LARED]

41. No. Hyperbole is using

figures of speech that exaggerate in order to create emphasis or effect.

Assumptions are entirely different things. You must know this so what is your point?

[patrice]

44. I am trying to get at your exaggeration in at least implying that Monopoly Capitalism

does not enslave.

You reduce the interaction between what is, to all practical purposes, an infinity of elements and their economic environment to 0. That is an exaggeration of whatever it is that you base your opinion on.

P.S. The great majority of speech IS figurative, some just more so than others, hence, "figure of speech".

[LARED]

49. Are you just making stuff up?

Please show me where I exaggerated or employed hyperbole.

No where did I even hint at a comment or implication about Monopoly capitalism

You reduce the interaction between what is, to all practical purposes, an infinity of elements and their economic environment to 0. That is an exaggeration of whatever it is that you base your opinion on.

I'm pretty sure the word incoherent is a fitting definition for the above quote.

You do know what incoherent means? Yes?

[HughMoran]

46. It's a bit over the top

Nothing a little hyperbolic flame-post-exchange can't fix!

:evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

5. (OT but child labor has not ended in America in the Ag sector.)

[William Z. Foster]

40. not sure about that

That is something I am researching right now for an article, as there is a piece out right now saying there are 211,000 children working farms and imp;lying that there is some massive child labor issue with farms. I visit thousands of farms for my work, and have never seen, or heard of, even one example. There are laws, very strict laws against child labor and I can't believe there are any significant violations going on anywhere.

That figure of 211,000 may well be the teenagers who work on many farms in the summer. It is considered a valuable experience for them, pays pretty well, and many farmers are under pressure from the local parents to hire their kids for summer jobs. That work is strictly regulated - the kids have to take safety course and pass them before they can be around any equipment for example. High school kids working on farms in the summer has been going on since the beginning of farming. In Europe, parents pay for their kids to have the experience. Many farms I know get ten times as many kids looking for summer jobs then they need.

That being said, while I am highly skeptical of there being a child labor issue in farming - it would be extremely difficult to hide and the consequences would be so severe for the violator - if there is some credible evidence of child labor violations I would like to know about it so I can track it down. That national TV piece a while back about the blueberry farm does not count, since it was proven to be entirely false.

Otherwise, I fear that this may be part of the general assault on small family farms that is going on. They are after all in the way of corporate and Wall Street domination of agricultural land and food distribution and production. We have found several cases of corporate right wing think tanks surreptitiously slipping anti-farm propaganda into gullible liberal organizations, who then distribute them and this could be yet another example of that.

When I mas a kid we all worked harvest, as young as 14 if I remember. It was hard work, but for us we thought of it as good money at the time and it was not at all unusual. That was many years ago, and today kids mostly work in washing and packing and sorting, and in the farm markets.

For the children of immigrants, with the benefit of language skills and education that their parents did not have, summer farm work as teenagers is a stepping stone into management and sales, and also into farm ownership for many.

So - are there kids working on farms? Absolutely. There always have been. Are there 211,00? I don't doubt that, and that is a tiny fraction of the number that worked on farmed 40 years ago. Are there children of immigrants working on farms? Yes, absolutely.

However, if there are child labor law violations going on that could not go on for long anywhere and a phone call would put an immediate end to it. As I said, I have never seen it. There would not even be any point to doing it, any advantage.

If anyone knows of child labor law violations, anywhere, they should report them. If they do not, they should not spread misinformation that can only harm small family farmers.



one edit - as you may know, EFerrari there is no stronger defender of immigrant rights than I am. I hope you do not think I am shilling for the owners or would ever cavalierly discount reports of abuse of immigrants or their children. But I am highly skeptical of the rumors that are being passed around about this.

[Skittles]

6. yes

[dipsydoodle]

7. You have in the respect

that corporations , particularly in the clothing industry , are notorious for the use of both cheap adult and even worse child labour abroad.

[Gaedel]

8. Freedom

The difference between a free man and a slave is that the free man gets to make a choice between working and starving.

[NNN0LHI]

9. It is, but it is self imposed slavery

If people are too scared to become unionized this is exactly what they get.

People who choose to purchase from non-union workers when they have the choice between supporting union and non-union made products turns us all into slaves right along with them idiots.

These people will deserve what they eventually get. Their kids don't. But they will.

Hopefully the next generation will be smarter than the current one.

Don

[Brickbat]

12. Agreed.

[patrice]

17. Re "self imposed": There are none so blind as those who CANNOT see.

I know that's a modification of the original axiom, but it serves my purpose anyway.

When you have only ever known a world mostly without "flowers", it is HIGHLY improbable that you would hypothesize "blooming" and that inability will aggregate itself geometrically, under certain economic and social circumstances, that make it even more likely that others are incapable to hypothesize "blooming", which inability will also aggregate itself, until even those who are highly likely/capable of forming that hypothesis are affected, even handicapped, in their ability to become the adaptation necessitated by the abscence of "flowers".

[havocmom]

27. That used to be valid, but not since most manufacturing went overseas

And outsourcing is not just about wages and benefits. The US still has some safety and environmental regs on the books (though not much enforcement of them in a while). When corporations more manufacturing overseas, they are not pestered with such things. The savings, and resulting increases in profits, are compounded when one considers regulations along with wages.

Am a union proponent from way back, but I don't think Union Membership will save anybody anymore.

[OnionPatch]

10. It's a "kinder and gentler" slavery, yes.

When jobs and education are not available and people are pretty much trapped in poverty-wage work with no plausible way to improve their lot, it's pretty darn close to slavery if you ask me.

[old mark]

11. Always has - was widespread until the growth of Unionism,

seems to be the GOP's vision /agenda right now - universal wage slavery with low/no benefits, no social security and no social legislation...we should all depend on the kindness of our employers...and of course the charity of local churches.
Compare the social contract in the US with those of the European countries - we have very little in comparison, none of it came from the GOP.


mark

[patrice]

13. Are we paid? What IS the definition of the word "pay"? If it were, "to exchange something of real

value for something else of real value", you'd have to wonder, because even with paychecks, what, out there in the realm of commerce (for which we exchange our lives & whatever a "paycheck" is) is of real value?"

Beyond the fundamental necessities of Life, what DO we work for? What ARE we exchanging our lives for? Whatever it is that we have "agreed" to exchange our lives for, IS it Real pay? Or, are we, on the average, engaged in a False Economy in which we are NOT really paid REAL compensation for what our work costs us, but rather we receive trinkets and bullshit motivations* of various types instead as rewards for "keeping up with the Joneses".

*Various Motivations:
Status
Religion
Social cliques
Sexual aggrandizement
Something called a "future"
Pleasure
Power
. . .
(I'm sure you can think of a few more.)

[arcadian]

14. I love how the status quo practitioners jump all over threads like this.

Like it's some how an affront to their way of life.

[Mari333]

16. knr.

and it is also based on never ending military empire.

[patrice]

20. B- I - N - G - O !

Sorry to say, which said empire is ***GUARANTEED*** above all else every time you hear "Give a Vet a job." Forget about everybody else, give the jobs to those who, in many cases, enlisted because they couldn't/wouldn't take the risk of getting along in a super competitive system like the rest of us. I know I'm going to step on some toes around here, but imagine the effect of SELECTING the OBEDIENT for economic rewards.

I am a vet myself and I DO honor The Military, but we MUST stop pretending it is "All That" because those assumptions ARE killing us.

[marcus5aurelius]

21. I call BS

Unless by Vet you mean Veterinarian

[Mari333]

22. please dont diss our veterans on DU. we support the troops, not the stinking wars

[patrice]

23. Wrong: I was part of an Air Guard unit with a refueling mission and my job

for 8 years was ENG (Electronic News Gathering) for which I trained, in technical (with a couple of stripes) school for 3 months with ALL other branches (including several Marines with whom I partied quite a bit), and on orders periodically with the Army.

I also have ALL branches in my immediate family (which is HUGE) and I am extremely capable of crossing generational boundaries when I want to, just ask my multitudinous nieces and nephews.

Perhaps your problem, ergo your wrongness, is your inability to look at anything with which you are intimately acquainted in a REAL - ly honest light.

[marcus5aurelius]

25. Sure.

My family is filled with officers and enlisted alike. I understand your stance for wanting peace, as many vets do, I also understand your stance for disliking the current wars because they are needless loss of life. I do not however understand your stance that military men are cowardly because they are scared of entering a competitive system?? WTF? Military men and women do what they fear most so others won't have to.

[patrice]

26. You probably need more experience outside of your self-reinforcing system, because

I would bet that most definitely is NOT the "average" motivation.

Really? You think all Military are Martyrs???

:wow:

[marcus5aurelius]

28. It takes a strong man to go into battle knowing he probably won't come back.

I'm sure you'de know that if you put down your camcorder and picked up a rifle.

[patrice]

34. It also takes a strong man to NOT do that and an even stronger one to prevent it.

Your definitions of virtue seem rather narrow.

[glitch]

36. And you need to join up yourself and stop using your family's service as a platform.

I'm sure you'd know that if you put down your keyboard and picked up a rifle.

edit: you should be ashamed to disparage another's service.

[marcus5aurelius]

42. LOL

I'll be sure to take your advice and join Newscenter 5 Nightly News :rofl:

[patrice]

24. P.S.I also taught high school seniors for 8 years & saw first hand precisely who was being Recruited

[HughMoran]

48. You spelled BINGO wrong

H - Y - P - E - R - B - O - L - I - C

N - O - N - S - E - N - S - E

There, fixed. Please make a note of it.

[proudohioan]

18. In many aspects, yes.

[Generic Other]

19. Yes

And whether we like to admit it or not, where the developing nations are concerned, we are the owner class.

[Javaman]

29. This was in responce to another thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4374997&mesg_id=4375380

[ipaint]

31. Yes both here and much more so abroad.

At least 50 million people are ill-fed -- up from 37 million just a year ago -- including 17 million children. Hunger in America is now at an all-time high, and there are currently entire national geographic regions -- the very large 15-state 'South' being one of them -- where more than half of all public school students are poor and ill-fed.

Despite the truly dismal 'real unemployment' figures with which most everyone now agrees -- a staggering 30 million workers and 19% of the labor force -- very little attention is being paid to the particularly adverse effects the recession is having on people of color, recent immigrants, and out-of school youth. And almost no one is acknowledging the sad reality that even the nation's 130 million full-time workers have had an average economic loss of 15% just since December 2007 -- an average effective work week of 34 hours rather than 40 -- which means that the number of unemployed workers, measured economically, is actually as high as 50 million.

The overwhelming problem today for most workers isn't this recession, as horrible as it is -- it's the fact that for every earned income level except the top 10%, average household income hasn't changed a bit for 10 years, and that for the bottom 60% of wage earners it hasn't changed for more than 20 years. Through economic expansions and recessions -- and bull and bear markets -- alike, 90% of workers in America have been standing still earnings-wise.

And 100 million people, fully one-third of the entire U.S. population, are at or below "200% of the federal poverty line of $21,834 for a family of four", which is a needs-measure made lame by the fact that no family of four can actually comfortably live on such a low annual income.

http://www.alternet.org/story/145950/our_dirty_little_secret:_who%27s_really_poor_in_america?page=entire

[Union Yes]

32. Yes-Global and domestic. knr nt

[bemildred]

35. Slave labor is pretty much what Capitalism is all about, eh? nt

[troubledamerican]

38. Soon

Patience

[justabob]

43. indentured servitude is more accurate, I think nt

[Nye Bevan]

45. Please don't minimize the horror of slavery.

I know a Mexican guy who works as a painter (I got to know him when we had our house painted recently). He works hard but does an excellent job and is not rich but earns a good living.

To compare his lifestyle to the abomination of true slavery, where families were separated, slaves were lynched, masters killed slaves without suffering consequences, is just ridiculous hyperbole.

[Jkid]

47. It's practically is.

Many people who are on "low-skill" jobs get paid with only minimum wage, and little to no benefits. Not to mention that their employer don't trust the workers at all and treat them as expandable when they do stand up for themselves.