So- in the midst of this national disaster, where the hell is FEMA?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

Just curious- I haven't seen a single mention of Federal Emergency Management.

Am I missing something here? :shrug:

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. What would FEMA....

...do, exactly?

No homeless, no refugees. No power outages. No shortages of medical supplies or water or food. No breakdown in the transportation or communications networks in the affected area?

Besides make you feel better, that is?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

11. I pray you mean "not yet"

Wait until the entire coast starts to die. Wait until all the fishermen lose their livelihood. Wait for all that ecosystem to disappear forever. Wait for it, if you want.

Personally, I'd rather not. I'd like to see an official coastal rescue and cleanup initiative put into place IMMEDIATELY, and who better to manage it than them? Wait for it to become so large and terrible that all those thousands of square miles are as dead as Chernobyl?

In the meantime I guess you'd rather have an existing infrastructure sitting out in the back 40 counting their trailers and hoarding their trucks full of drinking water...

[amborin]

13. massive deployment of booms, for starters

[Davis_X_Machina]

19. FEMA doesn't have the booms.

Coast Guard, and private outfits like Clean Harbors do.

FEMA could take the booms away from them, and deploy them themselves using crews more used to wrangling trailers, and microwave towers, and water purification plants, though, if it would help you feel better.

And if they let contracts for more booms today, they'll show up around the 4th of July...

[RandomThoughts]

2. I don't think Fema is tasked to handle the criminal activity

In many sectors like Banking, Corporate monopolies, and other areas of corruption that are done in secret.

[Blue Meany]

5. What are those legendary concentration camps for...

if not for locking up those who are a threat to national security?

[WeDidIt]

3. FEMA is not around for this sort of thing.

This is not FEMA's job.

You might want to go look at their web site and find out what it is FEMA does.

[PufPuf23]

16. This is overt disinfo - there is an Incident Commander Identifed

below in this thread under FEMA protocol.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. All disaster management uses the same basic protocols. "Incident Commander"

is the name given to the person in charge of overall management of whatever response is taking place. It's not unique to FEMA, and the fact that there's somebody called an Incident Commander doesn't mean FEMA is in charge.

[PufPuf23]

33. Bulsh*t. The coordination is to identify the Incident Commander

regardless of agency is under FEMA protocol (and actually now under Homeland Security as FEMA is now under HS.

This does not put FEMA personel "in charge" but the Incident Command Structure is a primary responsibilty of FEMA.

edit for spelling

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. Bullshit back atcha.

The Incident Command System has been around since the '70s and the protocols were developed before FEMA existed. All disaster relief organizations now use ICS, and its use has been mandated by DHS and implemented by FEMA, but the fact that ICS is in use in a given situation does not mean FEMA is the controlling agency. Even local fire departments, sheriffs' departments, etc., use ICS where appropriate. Doesn't mean FEMA is the controlling agency, or is even participating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_Command_System

[PufPuf23]

43. Guess what?

I worked for the usfs in R-5 CA from 1969 to 1985. I was a forester/engineer in my regular job as a professional and always was in timber mgmt but we were all fire fighters on need.

I never worked in fire much except controlled burns and several heavy fire years and did not like fire suppression frankly. In early years I was a red card squad boss pre any ICS language pre-any written protocol and post college worked in plans and procurement mid 70s (once I was National Guard liaison for a 17,000 acre burn on highway 50) and during this time FEMA was formed and a protocol that incorporated agencies grew. The ICS language came to the usfs from FEMA but the method from ca firefighting and I went through basic training classes for managers when this occurred. Now the Tribes, Sheriff, usfs, etc are all under this structure for fires, floods, etc.

FEMA is not the controlling agency now Homeland security is (as it is over FEMA). The ICS nomenclature was not used though the form may have been similar until FEMA was created. This is analogous to CEQA (CA Environmental Quality Act) that is similar to NEPA, the reason why is CEQA pre-dates NEPA and was used as a model for the federal legislation.

We may be just arguing timing and semantics and how history was written.

from wiki:

"ICS was originally developed in the 1970s during massive wildfire suppression efforts in California and following a series of catastrophic wildfires in California's urban interface. Property damage ran into the millions, and many people died or were injured. Studies determined that response problems often related to communication and management deficiencies rather than lack of resources or failure of tactics. ICS fell under California's Standardized Emergency Management System or SEMS<2><3> . In 2003, SEMS went national with the passage of Homeland Security Directive number 5 "mandating" all federal, state, and local agencies use NIMS or the National Incident Management System to manage emergency in order to receive federal funding."

"In the United States, ICS has been tested by more than 30 years of emergency and non-emergency applications. All levels of government are required to maintain differing levels of ICS training and private sector organizations regularly use ICS for management of events. ICS is widespread in use from law enforcement to every-day business, as the basic goals of clear communication, accountability, and the efficient use of resources are common to incident and emergency management as well as daily operations. ICS is mandated by law for all Hazardous Materials responses nationally and for many other emergency operations in most states. In practice, virtually all EMS and disaster response agencies utilize ICS, in part after the United States Department of Homeland Security mandated the use of ICS for emergency services throughout the United States as a condition for federal preparedness funding. As part of FEMA's National Response Plan (NRP), the system was expanded and integrated into the National Incident Management System (NIMS).

I think we are agreeing from a different perspective. NIMS is a product of FEMA and is FEMA language but FEMA is not necessarily the lead agency or an involved agency.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

45. All righty, then.

Semantics it is. My only point was that just because ICS is being used, that doesn't mean FEMA is in charge because everybody uses ICS (or NIMS). So I guess we are in agreement.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Because stopping up underwater oil wells isn't what they do.

FEMA is a disaster relief agency. They help communities deal with things like hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, etc. So far there are no people to rescue. There's nothing going on here that comes within FEMA's mission, at least so far.

[Bluebear]

6. How about the folks who make their living through fishing?

Just a-wonderin'if they qualify for FEMA?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. They may be entitled to some other kind of assistance (I hope).

But FEMA just handles safety-related disaster relief, not economic losses.

[Davis_X_Machina]

10. And soothing DU egos. Don't forget that....

NMFS handles the fishermen up here when they lose their clam flats to red tide. I would expect it's the same in the Gulf

[sandnsea]

15. The SBA is on the scene

giving loans to small businesses affected by the spill.

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/sba_centers_open_to_give_loans.html

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

23. I'm not referring to that.

I'm talking about tasking a formal disaster containment and cleanup manager.

[sandnsea]

27. And you were given names

You were given links. You don't give a shit. You just want to caterwaul.

[intheflow]

28. Well, wait until that oil seeps into their drinking water supply.

The water table is high down there, and the earth porous. All streams lead to other streams. Not to mention every five feet there's a wet drainage ditch, so the kids and the pets will be playing in contaminated water. Local produce will absorb the toxins. This is going to be a big mess in the near future. It would make sense for FEMA to be making some plans and setting infrastructure in place to deal with the inevitable.

[PufPuf23]

8. There is some irony here - under FEMA there is an "Incident Commander"

appointed for natural disasters.

The IC is from a lead agency and the FEMA protocol coordinates federal, state, and local agencies under the Incident Command Structure.

I just did a google search on -- "Coast Guard" "Incident Commander" BP gulf oil spill -- and here is the top website in the search:

http://www.bp.com/bodycopyarticle.do?categoryId=1&contentId=7052055

This is irony. I am sure one can find the name of the federal Incident Commander at the BP website.

[sandnsea]

12. Easily. Admiral Thad Allen

As has been posted ad nauseum almost every day.

[PufPuf23]

20. Thank you. That was my point. Easily found. SOP by FEMA protocol.

Some of us do not live at DU nor watching TV.

[sandnsea]

26. Actually by fire command protocol, but whatever n/t

[PufPuf23]

36. Or tsunami or earth quake or or flood or disasters in general nt

Heck. I think we are agreeing.

I am full of dread and heart broken over this event and the potential and actual harm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Admiral Thad Allen

but that takes all of three seconds with the google, and been the case from very early on in this mess.

[sandnsea]

9. The Coast Guard is coordinating the response

http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIX/2010may00010.html

Admiral Mary Landry is the EPA appointed on-scene coordinator, Admiral Allen is the Incident Commander, just like on a fire. The Coast Guard is working with Homeland Security, Defense, Interior and Commerce, the Environmental Protection Agency and other federal departments and agencies; and BP.

Admiral Allen directed the Coast Guard Katrina recovery operations, one of the few things that actually went well.

[PufPuf23]

14. That is why I included "Coast Guard" in my search

I saw the agency and a name but closed the google search result and poured a shot of tequilla.

[sandnsea]

18. Ah tequila n/t

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

17. You mean the BP/Coast Guard?

More interested in arresting citizens than assisting them... :puke:

[Davis_X_Machina]

21. Try that shit up here on the coast where everyone...

....knows someone who's you know, not dead, because of the Coasties.

I'm sorry if they also periodically interdict your dope supply. Life's about tradeoffs.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

25. Factual incident (follow link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8364906

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jobycom]

22. BP is in charge, according to Obama. It's BP's mess, and the feds can only "oversee."

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs says that under a 1990 law, BP is responsible, and the government is simply assisting.

"They're responsible for the cleanup, and they have to pay for it," Gibbs said at his press briefing Friday.

Gibbs was pressed repeatedly Friday to explain why the federal government hasn't taken over.

"I'm asking why you don't take control of the whole operation," one reporter asked.

"It is their responsibility," Gibbs said.

"Does the government just stand there as a spectator?" CBS News Correspondent Chip Reid asked.

"We are overseeing the response, OK," Gibbs said.

Officials say that there's no way they can declare an emergency and take over because the law says BP is responsible.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/22/eveningnews/main6510144.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

[pitohui]

35. "if nasa or the cia have something..." that's just a silly article, obama is right

i don't get all the digs against obama, if the person who wrote that article truly thinks that NASA or CIA have some super top secret technology for scooping up oil, then NASA and the CIA have been in the wrong business all these years, because there's big money to be made in oil -- in this decade we've had quarters where exxon-mobile has reported the highest-ever earnings of any business in any industry in all of human history

like it or not, the oil industry is the logical industry to know oil industry technology ... and they are heavily motivated to clean up this mess, do you seriously think bp has benefited from this accident or from having this crap go on for one second longer than it must?

apparently some people would like obama to commandeer a submarine and go stick his finger in the oil well gusher themselves, or maybe send the space shuttle down there or maybe james bond...

we're all pissed off and worried that the oil is still pouring out but FFS, obama is right, it's BP's mess and they need to fix it and they have the best chance of fixing it and it's their financial, moral, and ethical duty to fix it

obama is not a petroleum engineer and apparently neither is the silly congresscritter from massachusetts who thinks we can just call NASA on the phone and they'll fix it...somehow...

oil industry workers were the first to die, do you really think they are NOT motivated to fix this mess? everyone's worried and angry but yelling at ea. other won't get anyone one step closer to a solution

a friend said, well, we should just nationalize BP and re-distribute their $$$ now to the people of louisiana, while that may sound great in theory, in practice, we are not going to start a war with GREAT BRITAIN, we have to find a peaceful resolution to this problem

i have to believe that BP wants to fix this and is struggling to do so, at the end of the day, drilling a relief well is going to be needed (in my humble view)

[jobycom]

40. That's one quote out of context, not the focus of the article.

The article is about people who are getting impatient with a president. The quote from Markey is an example of that, not a suggestion by the writer of what should be done, and it's so far out of context we don't even know what he was referring to.

The comments from Gibbs disturb me, though. Bush and his supporters kept claiming after Katrina that he didn't have authority in the state of Louisiana, that the law would not allow him to use various resources, etc. I'm disturbed to hear the same excuses this time from our side.

[ShamelessHussy]

29. Hey, BP got this! So just chill the fuck out! Who the fuck do you think the U.S. Gov is, superman?!

:evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

31. Here is link to FEMA website. Perhaps you might investigate what they do

http://www.fema.gov/

Recent Emergency and Disaster Activity

Recent Emergency & Disaster Declarations

* Mississippi Severe Storms, Tornadoes, and Flooding (declared May 13)
* South Dakota Flooding (declared May 13)
* South Dakota Severe Winter Storm (declared May 13)
* New Hampshire Severe Storms and Flooding (declared May 12)
* Kentucky Severe Storms, Flooding, Mudslides, and Tornadoes (declared May 11)
* California Earthquake (declared May 7)

http://www.fema.gov/about/index.shtm
FEMA’s mission is to support our citizens and first responders to ensure that as a nation we work together to build, sustain, and improve our capability to prepare for, protect against, respond to, recover from, and mitigate all hazards.

DISASTER. It strikes anytime, anywhere. It takes many forms -- a hurricane, an earthquake, a tornado, a flood, a fire or a hazardous spill, an act of nature or an act of terrorism. It builds over days or weeks, or hits suddenly, without warning. Every year, millions of Americans face disaster, and its terrifying consequences.

On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

[Davis_X_Machina]

32. If FEMA can secretly maintain facilities to arrest...

...transport and detain tens if not hundreds of thousands of dangerous leftists -- or rightists, it varies from year to year -- surely this is child's play to them.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

34. I see nothing there that nullifies my premise.

:shrug:

[DemReadingDU]

37. There is background info on this thread

posted by JDPriestly, and I added a bit more in post#8
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8396797

[beam me up scottie]

38. FEMA is in Tennessee.

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=51525">FEMA Registrations Near 50,000 In Tennessee
Release Date: May 20, 2010
Release Number: 1909-028

» More Information on Tennessee Severe Storms, Flooding, Straight-Line Winds, and Tornadoes

NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The recent storms and record-setting flooding in Tennessee have been met by a robust response from the state of Tennessee and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

So far, almost 900 federal employees from across the country are now working to meet the needs of disaster survivors. Nearly $113 million in disaster grants and low-interest loans have been approved since the major disaster declaration May 4, 2010, enabling Tennesseans to repair and rebuild.

"Tennessee is very pleased with the cooperation, efforts and speed of FEMA," said Tennessee Emergency Management Agency Director James Bassham.

In the 45 counties that have been designated for individual assistance, almost 50,000 people have already registered with FEMA through the 800-621-FEMA (3362) helpline or online at www.DisasterAssistance.gov.

Not JUST in Tennessee, of course, but they're definitely needed here.

[beam me up scottie]

39. edit/dupe

[pscot]

41. FEMA has no navy

Just sayin'.