The left is no longer the fringe.

[Union Yes]

Progressive candidates are growing more attractive to the voting masses as political winds blow left-ward.

I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime. Having lived through the Ray-gun/Bush disast-era.

Regulation, accountability, and indictments for criminal wrong-doing are front and center on the minds of the people.

[laughingliberal]

1. K & R nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. Why do you think the DLC'ers are so desperate

to rebrand themselves as "real Liberals" :rofl:

[WeDidIt]

3. I defy you to point to a single member of the DLC that posts here. n/t

[DJ13]

6. I defy you to point to a single member of the RNC that posts here

[WeDidIt]

7. I cannot do that.

I know of no single member of the RNC posting here.

But nice deflection. You still haven't proved the original accusation.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. It is against DU rules to do what you ask

But it is easy to see the type, all day, every day, stomping their feet and making demands and declarations...

[WeDidIt]

11. Since when is it against the rules to show a guy who claims to be a member of the DLC?

Oh, it's against the rules to make false accusations.

I get it.

[Lint Head]

17. I can point to a lot of tombstones for trolls.

[WeDidIt]

20. Are you trying to claim they're all members of the DLC?

I think that's a pretty bullshit claim if you are. On top of that, you cannot prove the allegation.

[tavalon]

16. We have DLC fans here. Blessedly few

It would be hard to figure out if any actual members post here as the famous folks tend to keep their heads down. The only reason we know that Olbermann, Maddow, and Hartmann read here is that they often quote DU with attribution.

[WeDidIt]

18. Could you point out one?

I've never met anybody from the DLC posting here.

[Swamp Rat]

19. LOL!

:rofl:

[tavalon]

21. I don't keep up with them

Sorry.

[WeDidIt]

22. They must be mighty rare

I have yet to encounter one.

[tavalon]

26. As I said, blessedly rare

But they are here. There is one who uses the DLC avatar. I've noticed of late, they seem a little shyer.

[liberation]

67. Pssst... pssst.... don't worry, your "secret" is safe. *wink* *wink*

Your signature is far more delating than your little coy act. For what it is worth.

Have a nice day....

[hulka38]

78. Ain't nobody here but us chickens.

[fascisthunter]

86. gee, I wonder why

[freddie mertz]

74. Is this some kind of joke?

Seriously.....:puke:

[Individualist]

52. DLC's mantra is believe what we say, not what you see and hear,

and they're so ignorant they think people will fall for it.

[freddie mertz]

75. Right. And by that standard, there are at least a few of them here...

I won't say who though....against the rules.

[ima_sinnic]

27. wow--that took all of 1 minute! why so concerned?

are we supposed to be impressed that you consider DU "free from DLCers"?

sheesh, could you be any more obvious?

[donco6]

33. Not really.

Though he tries.

[ima_sinnic]

37. gee, "something" really put him on the defensive--I wonder what that was?

:eyes:

:rofl:

[donco6]

38. Considering he's to the right of the DLC, I dunno.

He even supports more drilling in the Gulf.

[ima_sinnic]

40. gee, that's a real liberal policy

but I guess I don't know what "liberal" is, because after a lifetime of being progressive, I'm only now learning that "pragmatism" should be my MOST IMPORTANT value.

:wtf:

[donco6]

51. Yeah, you're not really liberal if you can't bend your principles enough to get people elected.

Or something like that.

[freddie mertz]

76. That's it I think.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :popcorn: :spray: :yourock: :headbang: :fistbump: :hi:

[dionysus]

35. wyldwolf and freddie stubbs. that i believe, is the mighty DLC contingent on DU.

[rudy23]

39. So it's okay to name names now?

Or is it just against the rules if it's used as a perceived insult, which clearly you don't mean it to be?

[dionysus]

46. usually it's against the rules but those two guys are proud DLCers, i doubt they'd get pissed if

they saw that.

people keep asking the damned question, might as well answer it.

[closeupready]

41. I think so - the latter I have had on ignore for ages.

I haven't seen the former around lately.

[Missy Vixen]

53. Calling out other DU'ers is against the rules,

or I would be more than happy to do so.

[zipplewrath]

4. Now if we could just get a progressive president

I'm hoping that moves to the left in congress will drag him to the left.

[Union Yes]

14. That's my hope as well. nt

[socialist_n_TN]

45. That's how it's going to have to happen

He's a pragmatic centrist. He'll move left when it's safe to do so and ONLY as far as he thinks he can get away with.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

5. Specifically, which candidates are you talking about?

[Union Yes]

12. Romanoff in Co. Sestak. I think Bill Halter will win by 10 points in the run-off.

Tarryl Clark vs Bachmann will be tough but I like what I hear about Clark so far.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

13. Halter and Sestak aren't progressives though.

[harmonicon]

73. yeah...

but around here "not a republican" seems to mean "awesome radical lefty" - that was all the hype about Obama, right?

Even the idea of a "left" in the US is absurd. The most prominent leftists like Sanders and Kucinich aren't that far left.

[freddie mertz]

77. Way more liberal than the DLC, however. nt.

[liberation]

68. I would not consider Sestak progressive in the least.

[liberation]

69. Du-du-dupe

delete plz

[ima_sinnic]

29. also Winograd vs Harman

Marcy Winograd is currently soliciting $50,000 by Wed. for TV ads, all in small, people-powered contributions:

. . . Jane Harman is the self-proclaimed "best Republican in the Democratic party." She has spent 15 long years pushing for war, bailing out Wall Street, and making excuses for the Bush administration's crimes.

I will not allow this to continue!

Polls are showing only 43% support for Harman, so it seems as though our efforts are paying off. We must continue to get our message out to the people of our great district and there isn't much time left to get the votes we need to stop Harman.

Please consider donating on or before Wednesday, May 26th so that voters can see and hear Marcy on TV and get rid of another Blue Dog!

If we band together, we can continue the success of Halter, Sestak, Donna Edwards, and others.

June 8th is election day, and with your continued support we will make it a great one. ...

https://winogradforcongress.com/contribute/

[Union Yes]

62. Great post. Thanks for the link. Kickin a few bucks Winograd's way. nt

:fistbump:

[Bluenorthwest]

8. This is why the 'moderate centrists' are in full panic mode

Posting declarative demands, snit of the day, snit of the hour...

[Union Yes]

24. Yep. Centrists and rightwingers/neocons all seem very vulnerable.

[liberation]

70. I think centrists are more vulnerable, since the righties will always have their nutjob base

The centrer-right contingent on the Dems counts on the left and center-left having no where to go. The minute liberals have an alternative, poofff... a big chunk of the voting base for the DLCers disappears.

Their strategy seems to be to try to court moderate GOP voters (which will never vote Dem no matter what, ever) and to do so they are willing to piss on parts of the traditional Dem base, liberals. That strategy, besides being incredibly stupid, counts entirely on liberals having nowhere else to go. Why do you think to this day Nader is seen as more of an antichrist for the DLC, than Bush et al ever were?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madinmaryland]

15. You would not know that if you watch the M$M. Yeah, they are whacking

BP, but that's about it. Nothing else happening (according to the M$M).

**crickets**

[elocs]

23. Well, I've had things with fringes and usually they are on more than one side.

Although not all fringes are created equal.

[struggle4progress]

25. We'll still be "the fringe" -- even if we have the support of 80% of the voting public -- until

we're organized enough to send 500 or 1000 local citizens to lobby any given state legislature on any important current issue with less than a week's notice, until we're organized well enough to regularly win major strike after major strike across the country, until we're organized enough that our serious grassroots activists begin to fill school board and city council slots, ...

[Odin2005]

32. We will be the "fringe" as long as the Corporatist System is not yet overthrown.

They control the Media, and thus they control what most people perceive as "Reality".

[Union Yes]

61. Here's to hoping talk of a 28th Amendment can get some traction. I think Dems should run on it.

But the DLC won't allow that. I should know better.

I agree 100% with your reply.


:fistbump:

[depakid]

28. Haven't been the fringe- ot even close to it for a long time

Progressives attitudes, beliefs and values have been in the majority -often overwhelmingly so, for decades now.

[Union Yes]

30. Yep- Lack of organization hasn't helped our side but I think that's starting to change.

I hope so.

Edit: I mean that the left is starting to get organized. :)

[Odin2005]

31. Don't forget Mark Dayton for MN Governor.

The state party apparatchiks put their support behind DLCer Margret Anderson Kelleher, but it looks like Dayton is going to crush her in the primary, giving the apparatchiks a well-deserved slap in the face.

At the same time the Ventura-ists nominated a ex-Puke, splitting the GOP vote. BWAHAHAHAHA!!! :rofl:

[Union Yes]

34. F'n awesome. I'll kick a few bucks Dayton's way as a former Minnesotan.

Dayton has the name rec'n, the funds, the fundraising and is a pretty solid progressive.

Mn needs to buy its soul back after TimPEE sold it.

Dayton is the person for the task!

Thanks for the update.

:fistbump:

[Odin2005]

36. I loved him as a Senator.

I remember when his incumbent opponent Rod Gramm was so desperate that he used is OWN MOTHER in a campaign ad! EPIC FAIL!!! :rofl: That really backfired and became a topic of mockery!

[Union Yes]

43. Yep and the arrest of Neocon Gramm's son for weed posession...

I normally don't laugh at weed arrests but in this case..

:rofl:

:fistbump:

[Odin2005]

63. OMG, I completely FORGOT about that! Thanks!

[Union Yes]

65. My pleasure. It's been years since that arrest. I had to dig it from the..

far reaches of my brain! :rofl: Hidden behind some cobwebs and weed resin!

:hippie:

[Union Yes]

44. I forgot to add..

I too loved Dayton as Senator and was grumpy when he wouldn't run for another term. Even if he promised 1 term in his initial campaign.

I'm glad to see Dayton get back into politics. We need him.

[closeupready]

42. Last weekend, I spoke with a retired friend of mine who is a lifelong Democrat,

a homeowner and very pro-Israel. She is as liberal, if not moreso, than I am, which is just about as liberal as you can get.

Anyway, we were talking about health care reform, and she asked me, "do you really think he's going to be re-elected? He's not very popular anymore."

I know that's an anecdote, but it's interesting that there is a perception among the public that Obama lacks support from the voting public due to his triangulation in favor of conservatism.

[Union Yes]

47. IMO the only way Obama loses 2012 is if he has the left in a complete outrage.

I don't think it'll come to that. I'm hoping for progressive midterm wins in the House and Senate. Moving the House left might move the President left on issues. A more progressive house might sway the neocon Senate to move a tad left.

OK that's pushing it.

I'll stop. :)

[closeupready]

55. Ideally, I'm sure we all hope that he would move to the left.

Then I think even my friend would vote for him again. Unfortunately, I really think there is no chance whatsoever of that happening.

[Union Yes]

60. Yep.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for Obama to move left. But his foray into the right kinda makes me think he's got to be getting sick of having to wash off the filth of conservative politics.

Cozy relationships with Big Oil, banking, military-industrial complex etc have him caked in oil, blood and everything else bad.

Sooner or later I'd think he'd get sick of that filth and come back to us on the left. We won't hose him down with shit, the way the right wing has.

When will Obama open his eyes and see this? :banghead:

It's frustrating as hell, to say the least.

[liberation]

72. Obama will be re-elected in 2012

He is counting on center votes, and siphon as many disgruntled moderate GOP votes as he can. It is obvious given his track record since he entered office. There are more former GOPers in his administration than unabashedly liberals for crying out loud. That is a clear triangulation towards the right.

Obama is far closer, ideologically at least, to the GOP than he is to let's say the Green Party. The DLC knows the GOP is in self destruct mode, so now it is the chance of their lifetimes to do what they always wanted: have their very own GOP. Granted they call it Dem party now, but that is just because the GOP brand is damaged beyond repair.

The GOP will not be able to articulate a proper challenge in 2012. Obama knows this. That is why he is not losing sleep over liberals huffing and puffing. Plus aligning his presidency with the left, would compromise his post-WH earning potential. And he has his kids college and retirement to worry about. I don't say I can blame him. I don't agree with his policies, since I am a liberal, but as I said... I don't think I can blame a center-right guy for acting like a center-right politician.

We need to understand that for the better part of the past century we have been electing professional politicians to high offices, esp. the presidency. A professional politician seems his duties first and foremost as being related to election/electioneering/and getting elected. Serving the public or the country, come as a distant consideration, and mostly the consideration is made under the framing of whether or not such service can be used as PR for electoral purposes.

Although I disagree with many things the founding fathers did or were about. They most definitively got one thing right: the danger that for any working democracy the professionalization of politics presented. Given the devolution of the republic during the rise of the professional politician, I have to concede the founding fathers were totally correct on that score.

[Jakes Progress]

82. He will with republican help.

The neocons can't be all that upset with the way things have gone for the last year and a half. They will see to it that the tea party crazies get their way and nominate another pair of scary dits like they did last time. Liberals will be way to scared to let whatever mccain/palin replicants the neocons front that they will shuffle into the polls to disgustedly vote for the apparently less evil. Then we will get treated to four more years of a SC moving right, extended nation building, more support for oil, insurance, banking and all of the neocon constituents. Meanwhile, the Democratic party takes on the onus of the mess that will accrue.

[Individualist]

48. The sooner DLC is nothing more than an ugly memory, the better.

[Union Yes]

50. Yep- They tried to turn our party Repub-lite and succeeded for quite some time.

I hope it is the beginning of the end of conservadems.

:fistbump:

[Arugula Latte]

49. Our newest Senator from Oregon, Jeff Merkley, kicks ass.

He is a true progressive. I'm so happy with him.

[Union Yes]

54. Thanks for adding. Sen Merkley is one of the good guys no doubt!

:fistbump:

[lib2DaBone]

56. Right you are...

[Union Yes]

59. Thanks lib!

:fistbump:

[blindpig]

57. Progressives are not the left

When we are out in the street like the Greeks then we'll be getting there

[Union Yes]

58. I fully agree. But, we are a large part of the left in America.

:fistbump:

Which puts us at about moderate over in Europe.

I'd prefer some Greek political winds blowing this a-way!

:hi:

[McCamy Taylor]

64. The voters can speak but with elections in the hands of e-voting companies

the voters may not be heard.

[Union Yes]

66. Bring back hand counted paper ballots! We need election reform as bad as any reform right now.

:fistbump:

[csziggy]

87. I like the optical scan - we have paper ballots that can be counted either way

If there are no problems, no questions, the scanners can count them. But if there are any questions at all, they can be hand counted.

In the 2000 election debacle our county took 45 minutes to re-count the entire county. Every ballot that was questionable was scanned and PDF files put online for the public to view. Our supervisor of elections made sure that the scanners were programmed to kick out any unreadable, unacceptable ballots immediately so the voter could fix any problems, so there were few dubious ballots.

In fact our supervisor of elections has become famous for fighting for election transparency - Ion Sancho has been in some of the movies and a number of videos about improving elections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_Sancho

[BrklynLiberal]

71. I never really felt like I was part of the fringe. So there...

[Union Yes]

79. Hah! Nice.

:fistbump:

:hi:

[formercia]

80. You never were part of the 'Fringe.'

People need to quit believing catchy thingi phrases like 'Liberal Media', 'Far Left Fringe','Centrist' etc.

It's all part of the Madison Avenue Control Speak.

[earth mom]

81. I've NEVER thought the left was fringe because I NEVER believed the propaganda the right wing

and DINOS have spewed for years on the airwaves in their vile efforts to control the masses. :puke:

[Union Yes]

83. Same here. Time to debunk some myths and time for lefties to stand tall.

:fistbump:

[NorthCarolina]

84. The Left never truly was the 'fringe'. That was a falsehood perpetrated upon a dimwitted America

by a conservative Government operating in concert with a conservative media.

[HomerRamone]

85. I love Fringe! ~(_8^(|)

[salguine]

88. Well, until they stop getting cold feet in the voting booth and voting for the

same old shit again, they'll just have to keep sucking on it. We go through this every election cycle.