From DAY ONE, the ONLY thing BP should have been left in charge of is plugging the damn hole.

[LeftyFingerPop]

It is not BP's waters, not their beaches, not their marshlands.

Like what should have happened during Katrina, the National Guard should have been mobilized immediately.

The Government (whether it be the EPA, the Navy or the Coast Guard) should have jumped out ahead of this thing, put the BP execs in a room, and obtained a TRUE ASSESSMENT of whether this gusher was going to be able to be contained quickly...WITHOUT BEING FUCKING BULLSHITTED.

A high level representative from the administration (like BIDEN, for example) should have been put in charge, and that person would direct and/or approve every move made by the Coast guard, Navy, etc.

Not a drop of dispersant should have touched those waters until the gusher was ended so the true magnitude of this thing could be determined.

A jobs program should have been created where the Government housed and employed civilian workers.

The above steps are what is known as "jumping out ahead of a problem".

[Little Star]

1. Yep. That's the way I see it !

[corpseratemedia]

2. agree

[ProSense]

3. "Not a drop of dispersant should have touched those waters until the gusher was ended "

With out a solution to ending the gusher, the government should have ordered BP to not use dispersants?

Yeah, that would have gone over big. Ridiculous.

The government's response has been swift and effective despite the armchair quarterbacking.

[LeftyFingerPop]

5. I'm not even clicking on a blue link called "effective".

Nothing has been effective.

And yes, the addition of several hundred thousand gallons of a most probably toxic chemical does three things:

1) Masks the true extent of the problem.

2) Drops a lot of the oil to the sea floor where it is essentially hidden.

3) Adds yet another chemical to the toxic mess already caused by the oil.

And you are armchair quarterbacking by suggesting that the response has been "effective".

[ProSense]

9. "Nothing has been effective."

Drivel.

[LeftyFingerPop]

13. Really?

[ProSense]

16. Yes

Gulf Oil Spill Jobs: Cleanup Efforts Create Mini Job Boom

NEW ORLEANS — Much as he hates to say it, Mark Leonard knows it's true: The oil spill that is fouling the Gulf of Mexico may save his family's business.

Leonard, 34, is operations manager for Coastal Tank Cleaning, a company called in to help set booms to prevent oil from the Deepwater Horizon leak from getting into Lake Pontchartrain. The Morgan City-based company sent 10 workers and equipment to a staging area at Fort Pike, on the eastern tip of New Orleans.

<...>

BP has spent more than $750 million so far in oil spill response initiatives. Spokesman John Curry said the company has hired more than 20,000 people as part of the response to the April 20 accident and its aftermath. Some are contractors and subcontractors, some are laborers hired to set boom.

<...>

Unskilled labor is getting a boost, too.

In Pensacola, Fla., 4,000 people in Escambia and Santa Rosa counties showed up at recruiting events to apply for 500 potential clean-up jobs.

<...>

People are showing up to apply for jobs so evidently they're aware of these efforts.

Unified Area Command Continues to Build Web and New Media Engagement

The Unified Area Command in Robert, La., continues to grow its public engagement via its website (www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com), which has received more than 19 million hits since it was launched on April 23, as well as Facebook (18,277 users) and Twitter (3,707 followers). These resources contain information about response efforts, jobs, volunteer opportunities, impacts to wildlife and other important public information.

link

[LeftyFingerPop]

17. Oh.

That must be why my own lying eyes are seeing oil in the marshlands, dead dolphins, oily dead birds, and dead turtles.

That must be why I am hearing about grown men breaking down in tears.

That is why I am hearing bubbling anger from fishermen just about ready to take up arms.

Please don't post this myopic stuff and tell me things are going just swimmingly.

[ProSense]

18. "A jobs program should have been created "

facts

"Please don't post this myopic stuff and tell me things are going just swimmingly"

Who said things are going "swimmingly"?

You stated what should be done, and there is nothing wrong with pointing out the efforts that are underway.

If you cannot deal with the facts, that's not my problem.

[LeftyFingerPop]

19. FACTS

Oil in the marshlands and on beaches.

Dead birds.

Crying fishermen.

Loss of income for several hundred thousand people.

Lies from BP as to the magnitude.

Those are facts.

"Effective" implies "swimmingly". That's a fact too.

[ProSense]

23. Yes, there is a catastrophe in the Gulf

From the OP:

"Not a drop of dispersant should have touched those waters until the gusher was ended so the true magnitude of this thing could be determined.

A jobs program should have been created where the Government housed and employed civilian workers. "

The solution to "Dead birds"?

[DainBramaged]

4. What, are you an Obama hater?

:sarcasm:

[LeftyFingerPop]

6. Sarcasm duly noted!

I voted for him, I like him, I'm happy he won... but he fucked up here.

[DainBramaged]

7. I think so too, but I was castigated last night for those same impure thoughts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x313127

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[suzie]

10. Wrong place.

[Upton]

8. I agree with you 100%

good post.. I just don't understand how some folks can just kick back watching the Gulf die and still advocate for keeping BP in charge..

[NYC_SKP]

11. I agree with some of this, LeftyFingerPop...

But we can't compare Katrina to this for a number of reasons.

The National Guard, FEMA, and other disaster oriented Federal agencies are experienced and trained for hurricanes, etc., but are NOT prepared in any reasonable fashion to respond to this sort of thing.

That they are not is a fair criticism, we now know that they MUST be, given how many holes are down there, even if we ban future drilling.

I'm no expert on dispersants, but waiting until the leak was ended before using these could have been a real mistake. We just don't know.

I wholeheartedly agree that Obama, etal, should have come out more publicly and urgently about all this. That they haven't doesn't really tell us if they were or were not actually working their asses off. But it wouldn't have hurt, it is a missed opportunity. I don't understand it.

I think there are tens of thousands of volunteers and hundreds of civilian ships involved. BP is going to have to pay these people for their responses. I'm not sure that a jobs program would really be workable, because what do you tell them to do? Just walking out on an oil soaked marsh can be more damaging than leaving it alone. I don't know that the expertise exists to properly direct thousands of people to properly mitigate what's going on out there.

But it's a good idea, and a jobs program post-leak-stoppage will be a great idea with the right planning and staff in place to clean up and begin to restore the environment.

We should watch for this and urge action toward this goal.

The damage out there is going to outlive both of us, friend, and I like the idea of putting people to work out there.

:thumbsup:

[LeftyFingerPop]

12. Fair points...

I'm not trying to compare this to Katrina. I also think this is a different animal.

However, I am seeing people on the beaches now, shoveling up sand. The guard could be doing that on a much larger scale, and perhaps be working on projects to protect the marshlands. Additionally, the mobilization of the guard would do a lot to quell the anger of the people along the coast...just knowing that they are mobilized and ready.

Your points are well taken, especially the "jobs program post leak stoppage".

Like all of us, I'm just praying that the top kill works.

:hi:

[KharmaTrain]

14. That's The Only Thing They ARE Doing...

This is a three-fold catastrophe. First is fixing the gusher, next is organizing a clean-up (it makes little sense to devote massive amounts of money and resources while the oil still flows and whatever is cleaned up ends up an oil mess the next day) and then comes the blame and liabiility game that will play out in the courts for years to come.

Other than try to protect the coast lines, what else can the government do? Pull the whole country to a halt? Declare martial law? Become authoritarian all over BP's ass (despite the contempt many of us had when the booosh regime did that)? Lots of second guessing and finger pointing...and it's done nothing to stop the oil only made a bad situation worse.

Sorry, I don't go along with tokenism...what would sending Biden to sit on a dock in Lousiana bossing people around going to do? What is his expertise in this matter? Cutting red tape? What tape? Lots of spinning and misinformation has people all in a snit...all the while the oil continues to flow.

I expect there will be a jobs program forthcoming when the clean-up phase begins in earnest, but it can't while the oil still flows. Jumping ahead of a problem can put you in the way of a solution. This administraion is getting far more reliable information than the chattering class on the teevee or bloggers with agendas...

[LeftyFingerPop]

15. That is not the only thing BP is doing...

1) They are dumping a crapload of questionable dispersant on our waters.

2) They are trying their hardest to limit access to our beaches.

3) They are spreading misinformation as to the magnitude of this thing.

Sending a leader to oversee our response is not tokenism. You do not need to be a subject matter expert to lead toward a goal.

[KharmaTrain]

22. Lots Of Misinformation...

Yes, the have dumped Corex and have been instructed by the Government to stop. Yet they still are using it. So they are adding to the criminal charges. Let's see what happens when the President goes down to the region AGAIN tomorrow and what is said and done on this issue. There are still those who want this stuff dropped...someone on DU even suggested bringing in aircraft carriers to drop Corex (:crazy:)

Yes, BP is trying to do damage control and a miserable job of it. It's PR and stock price have taken a big hit and they're not stopping the pictures of the horror to show up on the teevee or the internet. THey're just one of many parties on all sides of the political spectrum spreading misinformation here that has mattered little as the oil continues to flow. And that's the major matter at this point...it's ending the flow, it's BP's mess.

We went through 8 years of token leadership...the "bullhorn" moment that sure felt good, but sure didn't catch "those guys who knocked thse buildings down". That sure turned out real well...

[joeybee12]

21. Wow..nothing makes sense in this...congrats...totally without reason..n/t

[Autumn]

20. I agree totally. And BP should be responsible for

every dime it costs.

[bdamomma]

24. instead the CEO is giving interviews why doesn't he do his freaking job.

[Dystopian]

26. KandR.

Great post.
Thank you.

peace~

[dgibby]

27. +a brazillion.

I've been saying this for 2 weeks.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/dgibby

[LeftyFingerPop]

28. I just read your journal, and we are on the same wave length.

Here is how I judge the matter:

1) Are a good percentage of people being impacted voicing a concern?

2) Is there in fact a substantial loss of wildlife?

3) Has the oil indeed made it into the wetlands?

If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then more can be done.

I really can't be bothered with people posting website links and telling me I am not looking at the facts. I know what my eyes see and my ears hear. My reason for posting concern is not a political one.

Your post was a good one. :thumbsup:

[dgibby]

30. Thank you.

I have family in NOLA. They have a baby on the way. I want them out of there, but that's not possible for a variety of reasons. I want everything that can be done to mitigate the damage done.

Did you see the CNN interview with the head of Homeland Security for Jefferson Parish this am? He was saying some of the same things I posted. He's the one who commandered the boats from BP last Saturday. I wish they'd put him in charge--someone with leadership skills who's not afraid to use them!

[LeftyFingerPop]

31. No, I did not see that but I wish that I had.

My best wishes to your family.

[dgibby]

32. Thanks. n/t