If you can bear it..Renowned Marine Biologist Carl Safina on the BP Oil Disaster

[G_j]

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/5/27/expert_ecological_impact_of_spill_could

Renowned Marine Biologist Carl Safina on the BP Oil Spill’s Ecological Impact on the Gulf Coast and Worldwide

As we continue our discussion on the BP oil spill, we turn to its long-term ecological impact. Carl Safina, the founding president of Blue Ocean Institute, warns the ecological fallout from the spill may be felt across much of the world.

JUAN GONZALEZ: What message did you bring to Congress?

CARL SAFINA: Well, that this is not just a regional disaster, although it certainly is, but that the Gulf of Mexico is a tremendous engine of life and also a tremendous concentration zone, where animals from the whole open Atlantic Ocean funnel into the Gulf for breeding and millions of animals cross the Gulf and concentrate there on their northward migration and then fan out to populate much of North America and the Canadian Arctic, the East Coast, the Canadian Maritimes. So it’s a real hotspot, and it’s a terrible place to foul.

AMY GOODMAN: Tuna?

CARL SAFINA: The bluefin tuna that occupy most of the North Atlantic Ocean have two separate breeding populations. One breeds in the Mediterranean. The other breeds in the Gulf. So all the tuna that populate the East Coast, the Canadian Maritimes, the Gulfstream, even that go as far as the North Sea, many of those are from the western population and breed only in the Gulf of Mexico. This is their breeding season. They’ve just about finished now. And their eggs and larvae are drifting around in a toxic soup of oil and dispersant.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about the dispersant Corexit.

CARL SAFINA: Well, the dispersant is a toxic pollutant that has been applied in the volume of millions of gallons and I think has greatly exacerbated the situation. I think the whole idea of using a dispersant is wrong, and I think it’s part of the whole pattern of BP trying to cover up and hide the body. They don’t want us to see how much oil, so they’ve taken this oil that was concentrated at the surface and dissolved it. But when you dissolve it, it’s still there, and it actually gets more toxic, because instead of being in big blobs, it’s now dissolved and can get across the gills, get into the mouths of animals. The water below the floating oil was water. Now it’s this toxic soup. So I think that in this whole pattern of BP trying to not let people know what’s going on, the idea of disperse the oil is a way of just hiding the body. But it actually makes the oil more toxic, and it adds this incredible amount of toxic pollutant in the dispersant itself.

..more..

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

1. that is a tough message to read.

but necessary.

[Divine Discontent]

3. yes it is - and she's essentially saying those eggs are gonna be destroyed by corexit chemical, and

yet, BP billionaires are still free....

[defendandprotect]

62. We have to realize that capitalism is suicidal -- and that it is killing all life ....

on the planet, including humans!

[Divine Discontent]

2. yet another voice that should have been sought out from the get go, these people know their stuff,

BP knows how to refine oil into gas... woopie!!!

well, that and value their employees lives based on how much it will cost them, and how to ignore safety so an underwater rig will blow...

[William Z. Foster]

10. this is the problem

Leaving this all in BP's hands - supposedly because "the government doesn't have the expertise and equipment" - has actually deprived us of much expertise and has placed the public at great risk.

[Divine Discontent]

33. but we're not reallyyyy democrats for suggesting that, we're just hellbent on tearing down the

administration, you see... we cannot question anything that is done, ever, even if we're talking about a multi-billion dollar mega-company that doesn't give one bit of a rat's ass about you or me...

that's the indecency here. shame on anyone in the USA who defends BP, by defending the admin allowing them to block information and have the coast guard push away anyone trying to access it.

[defendandprotect]

63. Democrats everywhere are questioning why Obama didn't immediately take this over!

It certainly isn't just Democrats on DU --

"Safina: They (BP) should have been shoved out of the way on day two. "

[laughingliberal]

15. A point I think many of us have tried to bring out...

when people have been insisting only BP knows enough to work on this. This is not the first massive oil spill the world has known. And BP is not the only entity in the world with access to knowledge. We could have people like this guy and the one who cleaned the Aramco spill working on this. We need people in there whose priority is not saving BP's ass but whose priorities are saving what can be saved of our Gulf. I'm flabbergasted to see anyone could possibly be defending these criminals.

[G_j]

23. I imagine bringing others in (and especially scientists)

would have interfered with their PR strategy.

[flyarm]

53. UNDERSTAND THIS; almost 1 month ago in Fla news it was reported that many countries throughout the

world offered help ..with their experts and scientists ..and they were totally rebuffed by this administration!

It infuriated me..and still does!

It was reported on the Tampa news where I live on the Gulf. Numerous times.

Of course it was never reported on national or cable news.

[defendandprotect]

61. At least one of the reporters got into that question the other day . . .

and the answer was nonsense -- "are we perfect, no" --

and then some crap which was supposed to suggest that they used what they

could at the time --

Nonsense -- everyone should have been consulted -- Congress should have had

hearings going immediately, listening to all these people and their ideas.

Watched some of the hearings today -- being run by Coast Guard and MMS --

and a company lawyer -- think Deepwater -- sitting alongside the witness!

And objecting that a question may be asking the witness to "give his opinion"

or "speculate" on what someone else was doing!

[MindandSoul]

4. So terrible! Men playing "apprentice sorcerers" with nature!

It's criminal!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. When can we be angry enough to elicit change?

The apathetic attitude of the majority of people here in the U.S. is royally pissing me off.

The truth needs to be spoken. I'm so f'n tired of the nonchalant approach that lays the responsibility at someone else's feet, when the responsibility is on the citizens to DEMAND justice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDGAoU1H2gM

[saracat]

7. NOW is the time. If not NOW, it will be NEVER.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

8. Yes.

I agree 100%.

[Lorien]

24. We're fighting apathy, burnout, ignorance, and cheerleaders

which is exactly how the wealthy elite want it. Until all of America looks like NOLA after Katrina I don't know if Americans will be ready to do much of anything. I wish that I had more hope for this Nation, but it's fading fast.

[skyounkin]

43. Same fight from the last 8 years of bush...

[defendandprotect]

65. And from what we have already seen of the "change" ...watch out in the future--!!

[G_j]

11. I haven't been able to comment

after reading the entire transcript (it can be watched also) I felt debilitated, add to this the realization that sleep walking Americans will probably continue to, well...
sleep walk, the dolphin posters on their walls, not withstanding. :cry:

[icee]

30. It's time to take to the streets with pitchforks and shovels.

[defendandprotect]

64. Certainly is the time ... to NATIONALIZE oil industry ...

[saracat]

6. Yet some do not what this information posted. Sad.

[Lorien]

26. It's pretty obvious that DU has a fair number of corporate surrogates acting on BP

and the DLC's behalf.

[icee]

31. Yes. I know one for sure. Everytime you criticise BP, this

poster defends them.

[Divine Discontent]

34. bingo

and I'd say, acting on their own dreamed up version of what they want this 'new camelot' to be... regardless if the big guy in the WH himself says mistakes have been made.



Trusting BP is like trusting a bunch of foxes to come clean up the carnage at the farm after they killed half the sheep and left their bloody remains about the yard, with all the remaining sheep looking at the farmer with a WTF look on their faces!

[debunkthelies]

70. DITTO!!! +1000

:hurts:

[Catherina]

81. Well said! Very well said! n/t

[earth mom]

36. Don't forget the rabid Obama supporters who think he is above criticism

and feel sorry for him when he supposed to be doing his job!

[jonnyblitz]

84. all those assholes care about is if his poll numbers have been

affected.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Right, the ones who don't believe in perpetual motion machines.

[Mimosa]

57. I've wondered about that , Lorien.

Yet, I'm proud of the advocacy for the environment here. And the compassion for the people who've lost their livelihoods.

There are so many DUers providing good information and who care about the larger issues.

[defendandprotect]

66. Agree --

certainly looks like it --

[leftstreet]

9. K&R

[emilyg]

12. k/r

[Kablooie]

13. I'm really feeling sick about all this.We may be in for many scary, desperate decades.

[laughingliberal]

14. I think we have ample evidence BP is invested in hiding as much of the truth as possible

The more of the mess they can hide, the less they have to spend to clean up. I have been frustrated trying to get this point across. I really do want President Obama to start pulling their covers and shine the light on their criminality.

[G_j]

19. why we expected as much

but they were allowed to do what they wanted. Where were the scientists?

[defendandprotect]

67. Capitalism and the race for the dollar bill beats out scientists . . . Global Warming--!!

Evidently Americans truly believe that we can swap nature for a handful of dollar bills!!

After all, didn't we buy Manhattan Island for $24 dollars from the native American?

Or did we --?

[Hissyspit]

16. K&R

[Swamp Rat]

17. k&r

:cry:

[gimama]

18. dispersant contains arsenic..

per testimony last wk in House hearing..
"So, arsenic is now in our food chain":(
Thank YOU for posting this.

[blindpig]

20. We gotta kill Capitalism

If this doesn't radicalize the Environmentalist movement then they are a bunch of hypocrites.

k&r

[Enthusiast]

40. No. Capitalism must be

strictly regulated. As it exists in this country, now, unregulated with little oversight, it is guaranteed to destroy us.

[blindpig]

41. Yeah, that works so fucking well....

What part of this debacle do you not understand? Regulation will always be compromised, it's part of doing business, to maximize profits.

[Enthusiast]

45. The influence of

corporate money must be removed from the election process. Then regulation won't be compromised.

[defendandprotect]

69. Our Founders recognized it and we should -- capitalism is a threat to democracy ....

FDR regulated it to save it --

Took almost 60 years, but the right wing elites finally undid it --

You can't have democracy without economic democracy -- and that's NOT capitalism!!

Corporatism = fascism -- and that's where we are now!

[blindpig]

75. Then you must take the money from the corporations, all of it.

Only way to pull their teeth.

[William Z. Foster]

79. well sure

That is like saying that if it never rained we would never get wet.

Actually, there is an old Arkansas Traveler gag about that.

Arkansas Traveler: Say, farmer your roof leaks, why don't you fix it?

Farmer: What, and go out in this downpour? Are you nuts?

Arkansas Traveler: Well, why don't you fix it when it isn't raining.

Farmer: It doesn't leak when it isn't raining.

[stevenleser]

73. Chernobyl happened quite nicely in a non-capitalist environment. n/t

[blindpig]

76. A singular event

attributed to poor reactor design and inadequately trained personnel. Whereas this event is the worst of many which have preceded it. Had the Soviets experienced a series of mishaps with this design of reactor something would have been done. Yet the pursuit of profit brooks no delay, they keep pushing the envelope, going ever deeper, cutting corners to preserve the quarterly line, and they will not stop as long as the profits are to be had.

[defendandprotect]

68. No -- we've already done that -- that was what the New Deal did and they overturned it!!

This time, we have to move on from capitalism and exploitation of nature and humans!

[Enthusiast]

74. Capitalism has the upper hand.

Exploitation of nature is the way of life. Now I'm not saying this is good. I'm just saying that's the way it is. Look at the results of the election. We thought we won an election, now corporations are more powerful than ever. Unfortunately it will be a long long time before we replace capitalism.

[defendandprotect]

77. Well, if Americans wake up ... then it is highly possible . . . HOWEVER . . .

we are moving into truly frightening areas with this exploitation of nature

and humans --

If you remember the Vietnam thing . . . "We had to burn the village to save it" -- ???

Well, the weather conditions we've created due to a hundred years or so of burning

fossil fuels and creating Global Warming, I think are going to make what we have done

very clear to Americans -- in quite shocking ways.

Unless they bury their heads a little further in the sand?

One issue is trees . . . Scientists knew in the late 1880's that the industrial revolution

was already harming the trees. Right now the trees -- narrow bands of them that are left --

are dying. The chaotic weather we've created includes now some very strong winds coming

our way -- obviously towns/cities are going to have to get out there and begin to nail

everything down in ways they haven't had to before. Oh, probably accidents will happen

before that's done.

And, that brings me to my town's story -- we had a young girl at our highschool killed by

a falling limb during lunch. It was a high wind day, teachers let students out into the

open area anyway for lunch. One dead girl. This was 6-7 years ago here in central NJ.

But now . . . we're getting more and more wind days -- heavy rain falling more quickly --

and more falling limbs. So now crews are out regularly cutting down limbs of very old

trees where anything is hanging over the roadways. Catch 22 syndrome.

"We had to burn the village to save it!" --

There is no dollar bill that can replace nature -- Nature is all --

[William Z. Foster]

80. it cannot be a long time

It is not possible that it could be along time before we replace capitalism. It destroys itself, inevitably, and we are approaching the final chapter. There is no such thing as Capitalism that dos not destroy itself. You can't have a system that demands perpetual growth, that needs ever new markets, that must drive down wages at all times that can endure. That is the problem. It is like a fire that consumes everything in its path, and then runs out of fuel and dies. Unfortunately, you and I and the rest of the people of the world, and the environment are the "fuel" this fore is consuming.

[G_j]

82. a system that demands perpetual growth

=cancer

[William Z. Foster]

83. right

It kills the host, then it dies as well.

[William Z. Foster]

78. you are probably thinking of trade and sales

Trade and sales need to be regulated, yes. But sales and trade are not Capitalism.

[tango-tee]

21. K&R

This makes me sick, sad and furious - all at the same time.

[tomp]

22. corporatism is sociopathic.

and this includes the government that is part of it. this level of insanity cannot be cured...it must, literally, be restrained/contained.

[William Z. Foster]

85. Capitalism is sociopathic, by definition

Corporatism is just a tool in the hand of capitalists.

By "Capitalism" I don't mean trade, or sales, or making things, or profit. Capitalism uses those things, but they existed long before Capitalism arose.

[Bryn]

25. K&R

All I can say is :(

[HCE SuiGeneris]

27. Shhh

Truth is too hard to absorb. Best to stay ignorant of reality and let things just play out.

[femrap]

28. Then there is

The Atlantis drilling rig operated by BP which has similar safety and procedural problems.

WASF

[inna]

29. K&R, marked for further reading

[BrklynLiberal]

32. k n r

[jwirr]

35. Time for the truth. The Long Emergency - Plus is here and it is time

for our president to stand up and talk about preparing for the future without oil. If we do not there will be more desperate moves to supply oil from unsafe sources and more destruction of our planet. We need a leader who tells us. However having said that I realize that we have an election coming up. We need to win the majority again and then we need to immediately begin to build for that oil-less future. We cannot continue the way we are living.

[CrispyQ]

50. With elections every two years, there is always going to be an election coming up.

Did you ever see "Three Days of the Condor"? Higgins was right.

Higgins: It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In ten or fifteen years, food. Plutonium. Maybe even sooner. Now, what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?

Joe Turner: Ask them?

Higgins: Not now - then! Ask 'em when they're running out. Ask 'em when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask 'em when their engines stop. Ask 'em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won't want us to ask 'em. They'll just want us to get it for 'em!

===
"We cannot continue the way we are living."

So true. But, no one wants to be the president/administration that tells Americans that they have to modify their lifestyles, that the way we are living isn't sustainable. Whoever does that, will go the way of Carter.

[earth mom]

37. K & R & Bookmarked to read later when the headache that has intensified ever since I logged in today

goes away. :yoiks:

[DirtyDawg]

38. Talk about wishing...

...wishing for at least one day, that we were China. These bastards would be executed at dawn, then we could tell Exxon to get the hell in there and get if fixed or they'll be next.

[Vinnie From Indy]

39. Fucking god damn criminal bastards at BP

These dispersants were formulated by the oil compnies SOLELY to HIDE the oil that spilled from prying eyes and plaintiffs. The words form my anger are hard to find so I will just say fuck them all to hell the lot of the BP executives that are at fault for this horrific, biblical scale catastrophe.

[marions ghost]

44. I'm so glad that people like Carl Safina are being interviewed

...somewhere. We're not hearing much from the biologists, but we will. The ones I know are sick about it because they know the real damage from suspending oil in a massive amount of water in a region as sensitive as the Gulf. This is catastrophic, nothing less.

Biologists are trying not to say "I told you so." It doesn't help. But they are totally horrified.
Carl Safina's to be admired for talking truth, not holding back.

I agree with many here-- the problem is, you can talk all you like, but a lot of Americans are not paying attention, whether from lack of understanding, or to avoid the disturbing implications since they already have enough to worry about. Either way is understandable.

But the corporate exploiters are counting on that avoidance factor.

[Octafish]

46. The guy's on Democracy Now, God Bless Them. OTOFH, Corporate McPravda is under orders to ignore him.

No where on ABCNNBCBSFixedNutNoiseworks have I heard mention about the impact of the dispersant on the water column and its potential to disrupt hatchlings, etc. The reason: Really Big Money -- the top 1-percent of 1-percent -- own the biggest chunks of Big Media and Big Oil. It's in their interest to continue giving the silent treatment to the latest chapter in Silent Spring.

Juan Gonzalez and Amy Goodman are real journalists. The rest are show biz.

[marions ghost]

47. yes the truth will be denied

as long as possible...I know you're right. I'm sensing the heavy Blackout Mode just like during the Bush Admin crises. They're jamming the junk down us like mud & junk down the well.

I mean how about this latest AP story-- "The Gulf disaster surpasses the Exxon Valdez..." (Like by maybe 10 + times, dontcha mean?) BP and Co. know EXACTLY and PRECISELY how much oil has come out of that well since April 20. They do know.

Yeah, the MSM's been told to go into "Look Over There" hyperdrive--lotsa distractions, little truth.

[flyarm]

55. It was reported MAY 1st..that it exceeded The Valdez. This is all a load of shit! eom

[G_j]

52. Juan and Amy

the last stand


I really like this show/website also,

www.theglobalreport.org

[flyarm]

54. and that is not even to mention the air we were blessed with in the Gulf states

that burned our throats and eyes and made some sick ..we have no idea how much we were breathing..and what exactly we were breathing.

Florida has such a high senior citizenship..how was that air effecting them? and children? And those with compromised immunue systems..and healthy people..I know where i live on the Gulf ..it was awful ..depending on the wind..at times you could hardly go outside. It scared me..and at one point where i am..it went from the Tampa Clearwater area down to Fort Meyers...That is a damn long distance..and we were 300 miles from the Gusher ( I refuse to call it a leak ) In fact it took over a day for it to even be reported locally. That is after our local news got thousands of calls about the stink ..and the thorat and eyes burning from the stink.

[pengillian101]

48. K&R

:cry:

[suffragette]

49. K&R

[RoccoR5955]

51. Capitalism is killing Mother Earth

I said it before, and I'll keep saying it until someone listens.

[snappyturtle]

56. I hear and agree. nt

[defendandprotect]

72. +1000% --

[William Z. Foster]

86. amen

Don't ever stop saying it. More and more are listening, and the evidence is becoming overwhelming and undeniable. The future and perhaps even the survival of the human race depends upon getting the message out.

You are talking to a unique population that is made up of people who have been trained from a very young age to not hear you, to reject and dismiss any questioning of the sacred beliefs of the doctrine of Capitalism. But as the suffering increases, as the inconsistencies and contradictions become more obvious, as the factual evidence accumulates, as objective reality and conditions deteriorate, they will begin to question those beliefs.

Future observers will look back and wonder how a people could embrace such an illogical and destructive belief system. An important component to the belief system, the main thing that keeps it in place in people's thinking, is their belief that it is not a matter of beliefs. They believe that they do not believe! They actually think they can "see" things like "free markets" and "invisible hands" and the like.

[David Zephyr]

58. K&R.

.

[lonestarnot]

59. Are they still spraying that shit? Someone needs to unite to stop the fucking planes!

[defendandprotect]

71. Think that the EPA couldn't get them to stop using this stuff-- and finally settled on

telling them to use LESS of it!!

Obviously, a chemical the oil industry is invested in and has plenty of on hand!!

Meanwhile, Great Britain outlawed this chemical 10 years ago, I understand.


PS: Tho, to be clear, the EPA at first approved this chemical -- and then realized

it was a mistake.

[defendandprotect]

60. "Song for a Blue Ocean" -- terrific book -- !!

http://www.bookfinder.com/dir/i/Song_for_the_Blue_Ocean-Encounters_Along_the_Worlds_Coasts_and_Beneath_the_Seas/0805061223/