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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 11:15 AM Original message |
Academic Evidence that School Choice Works |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 11:59 AM Response to Original message |
1. I do support public school choice |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:06 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. I agree... |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:51 PM Response to Reply #2 |
27. I agree with Bluestateguy |
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olegramps (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 09:18 AM Response to Reply #1 |
262. I am of the opinion that providing choice is a Trojan Horse. |
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minavasht (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:43 PM Response to Original message |
3. How about this - |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:45 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. What are you going to do about special ed students? |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:50 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. Exactly |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:52 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Nor does it help the kids who are "throw aways" |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:06 PM Response to Reply #6 |
11. No, I think vocational training is very important.. |
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minavasht (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:31 PM Response to Reply #6 |
19. It is a matter of choice |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:34 PM Response to Reply #19 |
22. Education has to work for all students, regardless of ability.. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:53 PM Response to Reply #22 |
28. One size fits all schools don't... |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:01 PM Response to Reply #28 |
34. I agree |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:04 PM Response to Reply #34 |
36. Been lurking here for a while... |
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minavasht (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:14 PM Response to Reply #22 |
38. Hu? |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:44 PM Response to Reply #19 |
24. And this is why you are not an educator. |
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surrealAmerican (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:54 PM Response to Reply #19 |
50. At what age do you propose to give up on a kid who's ... |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:00 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. But then again |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 09:56 PM Response to Reply #19 |
212. I teach those kids. |
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Mojeoux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:53 PM Response to Reply #212 |
256. Bless You |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 08:46 PM Response to Reply #256 |
265. They do make it when you support them. |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:33 PM Response to Reply #5 |
21. Simple |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:56 PM Response to Reply #21 |
31. This time I caught your sarcasm |
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Dappleganger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:53 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. Charter schools pretty much pretend they don't exist |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:09 PM Response to Reply #7 |
14. Much of the research takes into account external factors that affect performance |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:58 PM Response to Reply #7 |
33. Spectrum Charter Academy |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:35 PM Response to Reply #7 |
40. +1000 nt |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:05 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. I think you would have to up the amount of resources given to these kids.. |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:28 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. And where are these increased resources going to come from? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:33 PM Response to Reply #17 |
20. I am suggesting a new federal program.. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:01 PM Response to Reply #20 |
35. Sounds good to me |
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minavasht (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:42 PM Response to Reply #10 |
23. Don't get me wrong |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:45 PM Response to Reply #23 |
25. The system does little to take into account income and economic/social condition of the child.. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:46 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. It's segregation. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:11 PM Response to Reply #26 |
37. agreed |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:37 PM Response to Reply #26 |
41. +1000 nt |
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minavasht (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:22 PM Response to Reply #4 |
15. What about them? |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:24 PM Response to Reply #15 |
16. Wow! |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:31 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. +1000 |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:16 PM Response to Reply #16 |
95. No shit. |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:55 PM Response to Reply #15 |
30. At what age do you start applying this criteria? |
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minavasht (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:41 PM Response to Reply #30 |
43. Hey, you still go to school |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:52 PM Response to Reply #30 |
48. At what age do kids start being gifted |
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dflprincess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:06 PM Response to Reply #48 |
90. Even a gifted child can fall behind if you don't have the right support |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:08 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. I know a bunch of gifted kids school choice would really help out |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:17 PM Response to Reply #93 |
97. You're in favor of killing public education? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:21 PM Response to Reply #97 |
102. I am in favor of providing every kid an adequate education |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:23 PM Response to Reply #102 |
104. How far we've fallen. n/t |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #104 |
110. Probably so. |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:28 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. Ah. I knew you sounded familiar. n/t |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:30 PM Response to Reply #112 |
116. Ummmm okay.... not sure how but okay... |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:50 PM Response to Reply #112 |
150. Bingo! |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:52 PM Response to Reply #112 |
152. Indeed.... |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:25 PM Response to Reply #102 |
108. Define adequate education. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:29 PM Response to Reply #108 |
115. Okay here are a few ideas |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #115 |
119. Oh yeah, I get the picture. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:37 PM Response to Reply #119 |
126. Personal experience, partially |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:40 PM Response to Reply #126 |
132. God help us. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:41 PM Response to Reply #132 |
136. Can I make a suggestion |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:49 PM Response to Reply #136 |
149. This isn't an aspie board |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:54 PM Original message |
I expect "this chip on my shoulder" to help me |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:57 PM Response to Original message |
157. Actually, more than you think |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:59 PM Response to Reply #157 |
160. Hmm, aspie here... |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:27 PM Response to Reply #160 |
175. Oh you'll find out soon enough. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:33 PM Response to Reply #175 |
177. If I found a charter school... |
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olegramps (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 09:32 AM Response to Reply #177 |
264. I am so glad that you "founding it." |
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olegramps (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 09:28 AM Response to Reply #115 |
263. You paint a very clear picture of nothing more than unsubstainiated crapola. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:40 PM Response to Reply #48 |
133. You didn't learn anything? But you sure know how to read and write. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:42 PM Response to Reply #133 |
139. My mom taught me how to read when I was 3, and I was always ahead of the class |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:54 PM Response to Reply #139 |
155. Deleted message |
proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:53 PM Response to Reply #4 |
29. Thank you |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:57 PM Response to Reply #4 |
32. Give private schools the same amount that public schools get for said kids? |
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Spike89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:32 PM Response to Reply #32 |
39. Are you aware that this already is law? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:41 PM Response to Reply #39 |
44. They have to provide assisstive technology |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:18 PM Response to Reply #32 |
98. They already do get this money - even in private schools. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:22 PM Response to Reply #98 |
103. Then may I ask why my friend with severe ADHD |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #103 |
111. Non sequitur |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #111 |
117. Public schools will pay for technology |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:35 PM Response to Reply #117 |
122. So you're pissed because you didn't get an individual aide? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:39 PM Response to Reply #122 |
130. No I am pissed that I didn't get an IEP |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:41 PM Response to Reply #130 |
138. You'd better get over it before you start teaching |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:43 PM Response to Reply #138 |
140. I don't plan to teach in the public education system |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:45 PM Response to Reply #140 |
143. That's probably for the best. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:48 PM Response to Reply #143 |
146. Yea, I always thought so |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:41 PM Response to Reply #117 |
137. We pay for individual aides all the time. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:44 PM Response to Reply #137 |
141. Glad someone is |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:54 PM Response to Reply #141 |
154. So you really wanted your own school? What would it have been like? n/t |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:59 PM Response to Reply #154 |
159. I would have liked it to be... |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:52 PM Response to Reply #159 |
187. There you go. Throwing money at the problem. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:26 PM Response to Reply #187 |
224. +1 nt |
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harry_pothead (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:52 PM Response to Reply #117 |
228. They do pay for individual aides. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:28 PM Response to Reply #103 |
113. What? You think they hand over a check to every student? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:34 PM Response to Reply #113 |
121. You mean at the private school or public school |
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Sabriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:16 PM Response to Reply #4 |
173. And ELL students? |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:27 PM Response to Reply #3 |
225. And all the kids who actually NEED good teachers end up in garbage dumpsters, as Ayn Rand intended, |
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Spike89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 12:58 PM Response to Original message |
8. A complex subject without easy answers |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:03 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. Word |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:08 PM Response to Reply #9 |
13. No you certainly can't.. you can however find solutions that work in current circumstances |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 01:07 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. Many of the studies take social/economic factors into account and correct for their influence |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:29 PM Response to Reply #12 |
176. Some of them aren't studies, at all. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:40 PM Response to Original message |
42. I see. It's Reagan appreciation day on DU. Unrec. nt |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:41 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. snort |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:49 PM Response to Reply #42 |
46. Yep you have to be conservative... |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:50 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. Not at all. You just have to be wealthy n/t |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:53 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. Thats the current system you are talking about |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:09 PM Response to Reply #49 |
59. Yes, the current system the RW has fought against funding. Then they can point to how it's failing |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:15 PM Response to Reply #59 |
65. Money isn't everything... |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:18 PM Response to Reply #65 |
66. Fail. The refusal to adequately fund the public school system is the problem. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:20 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. LOL Then how do you explain my friend |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:46 PM Response to Reply #68 |
80. Lol. You ain't seen nothin' yet. Wait til we turn the system over to the for profits. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:48 PM Response to Reply #80 |
82. Whatever you say |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:01 PM Response to Reply #82 |
87. Fund the fucking schools to allow for individual needs. Money IS the problem. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:04 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. Was it a scam when teachers unions were pushing for it? |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:08 PM Response to Reply #88 |
92. I'm sure they got it a lot cheaper from a school we were funding. Not the same thing. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:12 PM Response to Reply #92 |
94. Here is my problem with that... |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:24 PM Response to Reply #94 |
106. Because of these experiences you're making wholesale pronouncements |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:40 PM Response to Reply #106 |
134. Yea, thankfully Ryan Patrick Halligan will never be in charge too |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:34 PM Response to Reply #94 |
226. I lost, face it? ROFL!!!! |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:49 PM Response to Reply #82 |
148. I knew you sounded familiar! |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:00 PM Response to Reply #148 |
162. Uhhh no? |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:36 PM Response to Reply #162 |
178. Uhhhh yes |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 08:58 PM Response to Reply #178 |
209. I was right the first time. Good job. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:41 PM Response to Reply #162 |
180. and bye bye.... |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 07:38 PM Response to Reply #180 |
204. Thank you mods! |
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maryf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 09:42 PM Response to Reply #66 |
210. +1,000 |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 07:12 PM Response to Reply #65 |
203. Oh, please. I raised money in Greenwich CT where EVERY family I raised money |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 02:58 PM Response to Reply #46 |
51. You have to be conservative to want to turn yet more of the public money over to profiteers. nt |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:01 PM Response to Reply #51 |
53. So you are saying that every private/charter school is run by profiteers |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:06 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. If they were non-profit, wouldn't we call them Public Schools? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:10 PM Response to Reply #54 |
61. Uh no... |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:07 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. I have yet to see one public service privatized that did not result in increased expense & less serv |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:09 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. There is ample evidence for this. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:10 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. One.. very easy to find.. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:13 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Perhaps one from our country |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:18 PM Response to Reply #63 |
67. How about YMCAs building gyms for schools |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:52 PM Response to Reply #67 |
83. Building gyms is not on the level of running an entire school system. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:55 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. How much money would have the land that the gym was built on have cost? |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:21 PM Response to Reply #84 |
100. Not the same thing. I'm sure the school we built was able to offer the land cheaper. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:24 PM Response to Reply #100 |
105. I got no services |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:28 PM Response to Reply #105 |
114. I did |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:45 PM Response to Reply #114 |
142. So your education was perfect? |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:49 PM Response to Reply #142 |
227. Not perfect but nothing is perfect. But I was in a public school system that was funded. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:39 PM Response to Reply #84 |
179. Non-profit does not mean that money is not being made, |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:40 PM Response to Reply #84 |
253. As noted, a pool does not a school system make. Nor does swimming get a standardized test. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:30 PM Response to Reply #63 |
72. Okay.. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #72 |
109. ROFL! Fed Ex costs a lot more than USPS. And we don't fund them with tax payer dollars. nt |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:37 PM Response to Reply #109 |
125. Actually, they do.. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:09 PM Response to Reply #125 |
166. the post office has never lost anything of mine. in 50 years. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:21 PM Response to Reply #166 |
222. I don't care.. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:55 PM Response to Reply #222 |
229. See how easy that was? You have a choice when you use your own money. |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 11:20 AM Response to Reply #222 |
238. Really? Why? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:08 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. Or pragmatic and in search of a better world. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:11 PM Response to Reply #56 |
62. Deleted message |
aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:27 PM Response to Reply #56 |
70. I have a feeling we are fighting a losing battle |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:35 PM Response to Reply #70 |
123. I know the public schools aren't doing well. The RW has fought adequate funding. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:14 PM Response to Reply #123 |
170. So more funding ALONE will make the public education system better? |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:51 PM Response to Reply #170 |
186. Parents of children who attend elite private schools seem to believe |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:04 PM Response to Reply #170 |
216. Disagree all you want. |
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Catshrink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:38 PM Response to Reply #70 |
127. And no public institution will meet every single person's needs |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:47 PM Response to Reply #127 |
145. Maslows hierachy of needs |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:08 PM Response to Reply #145 |
217. Diverting the public funds for a few cherry picked students in charter and private schools |
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Starry Messenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:08 PM Response to Reply #42 |
57. With CATO foundation sponsorship |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:14 PM Response to Reply #57 |
64. +1000 nt |
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waiting for hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 07:43 AM Response to Reply #42 |
233. Ha! + 1 zillion. |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:26 PM Response to Original message |
69. Choice ONLY matters when it comes to abortion. Schools, Where to drink, etc, need to be controlled |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:29 PM Response to Reply #69 |
71. *hands you a flame proof jacket* |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:37 PM Response to Reply #71 |
76. Sad one would need a flame proof jacket to be pro-choice |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:07 PM Response to Reply #69 |
91. That explains a lot. n/t |
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bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:17 PM Response to Reply #69 |
96. I'm inclined to agree |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:20 PM Response to Reply #96 |
99. Or it could not be. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:23 PM Response to Reply #96 |
223. +1000 nt |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:32 PM Response to Reply #69 |
118. You can make any choice you want with your own money. Tax dollars need to fund the public schools. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:50 PM Response to Reply #118 |
151. So you disagree with tax dollars going to any public coorporations? |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:12 PM Response to Reply #151 |
218. I think we're all well aware of where for profit health care got us. |
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mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:32 PM Response to Original message |
73. I'm against privatization. My response |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:33 PM Response to Original message |
74. Deleted message |
BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:41 PM Response to Reply #74 |
78. Yep, I have GOP backers who support my polices of higher taxes on the rich and giving it to poor |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:34 PM Response to Original message |
75. I worked on this study many years ago. The evidence is inconclusive at best. Some "school choice" |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:40 PM Response to Reply #75 |
77. Well, certainly other factors matter.. |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:52 PM Response to Reply #77 |
201. Of course, but the purpose was to conduct empirical work and to make sure that what we |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:06 PM Response to Reply #75 |
89. Some stronghold. |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:56 PM Response to Reply #89 |
202. A very interesting story on the power/influence of the teachers' unions and how |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 08:03 AM Response to Reply #202 |
235. No surprise, there |
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Liberal_Stalwart71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 02:40 PM Response to Reply #235 |
241. I agree with you on this. He seems hellbent on throwing progressives under the bus. I don't understa |
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Spike89 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:48 PM Response to Reply #75 |
147. Exactly! Even bad ideas can work... |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:41 PM Response to Original message |
79. those studies don't show shit. only one actually looks at schools, & it's a tiny study from 1998. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:48 PM Response to Reply #79 |
81. THey all look at schools with different sample sizes and use different types of academic methods. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 03:59 PM Response to Reply #81 |
85. no, they don't. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:00 PM Response to Reply #85 |
86. Proof that they don't? |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:33 PM Response to Reply #86 |
120. read the abstracts: carefully. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:38 PM Response to Reply #120 |
128. IF you wish for the studies, I can provide them for you... |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:09 PM Response to Reply #128 |
167. She doesn't |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:16 PM Response to Reply #128 |
219. I'm well aware of the 'facts' the RW has been pushing in their quest to divert more of our tax dolla |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
101. Let me ask you a question sir, what is this country doing for the doomed? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:24 PM Response to Reply #101 |
107. Well, something I was going to do was ensure they had money and resources to get a better education. |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:36 PM Response to Reply #107 |
124. Your "selected" students are not the issue. They'll do fine. n/t |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:39 PM Response to Reply #124 |
131. If you saw what I wrote, |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:47 PM Response to Reply #131 |
144. And who is paying to send every child in America to private schools? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:53 PM Response to Reply #144 |
153. Did I say that every child would go to private schools... |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:57 PM Response to Reply #153 |
158. And children whose families are above the poverty line can suck it in bad schools? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:05 PM Response to Reply #158 |
164. Most private schools are not for profits |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:13 PM Response to Reply #164 |
169. Directors and administrators of non-profits work for free? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:15 PM Response to Reply #169 |
172. LOL do principals work for free? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:05 PM Response to Reply #169 |
192. It doesn't have to be a private school. It is federal money and could easily go to the local |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:18 PM Response to Reply #164 |
220. Oh, just wait til we open the gates for tax dollars to start being paid to them. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:44 PM Response to Reply #158 |
182. What are you talking about? |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:02 PM Response to Reply #144 |
163. Why would every parent in America want to educate their kid in private schools |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:21 PM Response to Reply #163 |
221. No, they are not. We have been underfunding the public schools for years |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:39 PM Response to Reply #107 |
129. Sure. We see how well all the competition and free market crap worked out for our health care system |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:40 PM Response to Reply #129 |
135. Bad example... |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 09:52 PM Response to Reply #135 |
211. That's why I called it free market crap. Results will be exactly as they've been in health care. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:12 PM Response to Reply #129 |
168. You misunderstand |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 09:58 PM Response to Reply #168 |
213. I understand perfectly. You're being deceived. |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 09:59 PM Response to Reply #101 |
214. We're teaching them. Send them my way. |
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WinkyDink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 04:56 PM Response to Original message |
156. May all those in favor have to plan a public school budget, with staff, sports teams, textbook pur- |
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Xithras (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:00 PM Response to Original message |
161. Correlation/Causation etc. etc. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:47 PM Response to Reply #161 |
183. The studies correct for this.. |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:07 PM Response to Original message |
165. The studies seem promising |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:14 PM Response to Reply #165 |
171. the studies aren't studies. there are plenty of ideas; they just don't benefit the rulers. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:50 PM Response to Reply #171 |
185. Really? How so... where is the data/analysis error in the studies.. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:44 PM Response to Reply #165 |
181. Where did you read these studies? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:54 PM Response to Reply #181 |
189. If you want the PDF, just email me.. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:20 PM Response to Reply #189 |
194. I was asking Gravity. |
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aspiesrule (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:25 PM Response to Original message |
174. A little help here... |
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Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:49 PM Response to Original message |
184. "After Milwaukee" |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:52 PM Response to Reply #184 |
188. I have provided studies that contradict that.. |
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Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:06 PM Response to Reply #188 |
193. Why do you have to target vouchers to the poor? Why not just fund their public schools? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:22 PM Response to Reply #193 |
195. Because I want the power with the poor.. |
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Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:31 PM Response to Reply #195 |
199. If you want to empower the poor, fund the public schools and public universities. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:42 PM Response to Reply #199 |
200. It would be federal money.. |
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Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 07:43 PM Response to Reply #200 |
205. Federal money is taxpayer money. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 08:03 PM Response to Reply #205 |
206. For what results? |
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Gormy Cuss (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 08:08 PM Response to Reply #206 |
207. The results of better educations for all children regardless of parental circumstances. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 08:21 PM Response to Reply #207 |
208. 16K per student hasn't helped in NY... |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 11:03 PM Response to Reply #208 |
230. There you have it. 10K won't get you through the door of most private schools. |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:21 PM Response to Reply #230 |
246. Where do you live? That's more than they cost here. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 08:33 AM Response to Reply #230 |
261. The person can send the kid to public school... |
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jmowreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 05:55 PM Response to Original message |
190. I've ranted against vouchers before... |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:01 PM Response to Reply #190 |
191. If you read the thread, the vouchers would be for low income families |
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jmowreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:22 PM Response to Reply #191 |
196. Watch the "conditions" fade away... |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:28 PM Response to Reply #196 |
197. I can't take advantage of it.. |
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jmowreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 04:10 PM Response to Reply #197 |
242. You're probably not one of the ones pushing it |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 08:29 AM Response to Reply #242 |
260. The people who are the most vocal about wanting vouchers don't really need them |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 06:28 PM Response to Reply #196 |
198. I can't take advantage of it.. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 11:04 PM Response to Reply #196 |
231. +10,000 nt |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 10:02 PM Response to Original message |
215. Actually cleaning up their schools and making them work works better. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-02-10 11:41 PM Response to Reply #215 |
232. Again, |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:16 PM Response to Reply #232 |
244. Parents do have that power, even in poor neighborhoods. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-06-10 07:58 AM Response to Reply #244 |
271. And part of the problem is that school have no reason to want them to attend... |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 07:59 AM Response to Original message |
234. Public school choice works |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:45 AM Response to Reply #234 |
236. my grandson's school is a good example of public school innovation. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 11:20 AM Response to Reply #236 |
239. it is a question of "thinking outside of the box." |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:37 PM Response to Reply #236 |
250. Immersion schools are one great example of choices that public ed |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 07:10 AM Response to Reply #250 |
258. I wish you could see this school! When I visit, I notice a sea of diversity |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 11:03 AM Response to Reply #234 |
237. How is what I suggesting union busting? |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:20 PM Response to Reply #237 |
245. Charters and private schools aren't unionized. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:38 PM Response to Reply #245 |
251. The money doesn't have to go to a charter school |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:39 PM Response to Reply #251 |
252. Your Freudian slip is showing. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 08:07 AM Response to Reply #252 |
259. That isn't what I am saying.. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:40 PM Response to Reply #237 |
254. Union-busting is one of the main goals of the charter movement. |
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donco6 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 11:22 AM Response to Reply #234 |
240. Yes. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:34 PM Response to Reply #240 |
248. Your district is a perfect example. With a focus on supporting |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-05-10 08:09 AM Response to Reply #240 |
268. How would this sort of federal money destroy them? |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 08:57 PM Response to Original message |
243. I find it interesting that no one has asked for me to email them the study... |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:23 PM Response to Reply #243 |
247. It's because those of us in education know most education studies are crap. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:37 PM Response to Reply #247 |
249. because that isn't the majority of the evidence... |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 09:43 PM Response to Reply #249 |
255. I doubt it. I've read too many studies in my time. |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-03-10 10:03 PM Response to Reply #255 |
257. Love the amount of academic curiosity the board shows when there is evidence the world doesn't work |
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DebJ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 09:10 PM Response to Original message |
266. Sure its better. All the troubled kids get shoved out of the |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-04-10 10:08 PM Response to Reply #266 |
267. It isn't about charter, public, or private schools.. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-05-10 08:23 AM Response to Reply #267 |
269. You want to give them educational resources, then start fully funding public education |
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BrentWil (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-05-10 09:01 AM Response to Reply #269 |
270. A few points.. |
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