Graduations to be held at school instead of church

[The Straight Story]

Enfield BOE votes not to appeal
Graduations to be held at school instead of church


Enfield, Conn. (AP/WTNH) - Enfield school officials have narrowly voted not to appeal a federal judge's ruling against plans to hold high school graduations in a megachurch.

The Enfield School Board voted 5-4 Thursday night, meaning graduation will be held on school grounds this year.

However, many students are upset because they say they can't bring their whole family because of the limited space. "Everybody is pretty much fed up about it and they just want to get their diploma," said graduating student Denna Betournaoi. "Half of them don't even want to walk for graduation."

"We have 13 people with plane tickets that are flying in to see her graduate, now my husband and I will be inside, but she has three sisters who will be at home or outside on the curb," said Kim Rotatori a parent of a graduating senior.

...

In the past, Enfield has held its graduation at a cathedral to accommodate the budget and the large number of people who wish to attend. The ACLU and two parents fought the decision claiming separation of Church and State. "I am an atheist and I shouldn't have to be subjected to have to go to a religious place to see my daughter graduate," said Jennifer Bruyette of Enfield.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/education/Enfield-boe-meets-to-discuss-church-graduations

[tammywammy]

1. Why don't they have it at the school

Wouldn't the football stadium accommodate enough people? And as for the sisters that can't see their older sister graduate, they probably don't care. Graduations are pretty damn boring. I went to my brother's when I was 10, I purposely chose to skip my other brother's when I was 12. :)

[SocialistLez]

2. My high school graduation was at the local arena

Plenty of high schools around the area held them there. Verizon Arena, formerly Alltel Arena.

I know not every area has that resource but I am SO glad it wasn't held in a church.
I would make a big stink if my high school tried to pull that crap.

[tammywammy]

6. Mine was at TCU's basketball arena

The rest of the city's high schools graduated at the Arlington Convention Center. My high school had almost 800 graduates and the convention center wasn't large enough to accomodiate it.

I heard this morning that a local high school was planning on having their graduation outside, and it's supposed to be 100+ this weekend, and they're moving to the Cowboy's Stadium.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

3. This issue is dumb, it is just a building

My high school graduation was a disaster, it was held at a hotel which didn't have enough parking - evidently nobody noticed this until the evening of. So they told people to park at fucking Disneyland which wasn't cheap even then and sent the hotel shuttle to collect them. People didn't finish crossing the stage till some time after midnight.

When my brother graduated from the same school they had switched to using a church, which had adequate parking and a much better AV setup than the hotel could come up with and was much less expensive than using a hotel.

In many communities the only practical facility for hosting a large public gathering is going to be a megachurch of some sort, sorry it just isn't worth fighting about.

[SocialistLez]

9. For some folks, it isn't just a building.

I personally feel very uncomfortable in most churches.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

11. And this is how many days out of a lifetime?

I think religious people are mental defectives no matter what their persuasion, but there aren't many affordable ways to host thousands of people.

[rurallib]

25. I would think that local public arenas, football fields or other such places

should be considered before churches.
To me and to lots of others a state function inside a church has an odor.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

27. and those are always available and affordable?

and provide for adequate parking?

[rurallib]

28. They have a graduation every year. Perhaps some one on the staff could check?

[Rebubula]

12. Then...

..that is your problem.

I have been an atheist for better than 20 years. I have no problem going into a church, mosque or synagogue. They are just buildings...no one is going to damn you to hell or abduct you.

There is no need to give those with a religious illness power over you. Be stronger than they.

[Gaedel]

14. All in your mind

As long as the preacher isn't preaching and praying, it is just one big auditorium.

Most churches are pretty good about letting the public use their fellowship halls, Sunday school rooms, or even their sanctuaries for meetings and ceremonies. As has been said, they are large venues and have plenty of parking.

When I was president of a homeowners association (like a term of unpaid servitude), we always used the Methodist Church Sunday school area for our meetings. The alternative was to have it in one of our homes. I would swing by the church about 2:00pm, pick up the key from the church secretary or the minister, open the place up for the meeting, clean up any mess after the meeting, lock up, and return the key the following morning.

Where I live now, we have four precincts voting in the local Catholic church fellowship hall. I don't think the crucifix influences my vote any.

[Taverner]

16. What about polling places at churches?

[SocialistLez]

18. I don't like that either. Thankfully I have never had to vote in one. NT

[Taverner]

41. When I lived in the Lakeshore Dist in Oakland - we voted at the local Baptist Church

Interesting to say the least

[Tailormyst]

17. It's not just a building

Those building represent a culture of hate to many students. When you are part of the groups that are preached against as evil and dangerous daily in those buildings then it's not just another building.

[SocialistLez]

19. Thank you! NT

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

20. In this case "many" is two and neither of them students

People need to stop tripping over themselves looking for opportunities to be offended and just look at the logistics of the matter. The list of groups who are preached against in megachurches is fairly exhaustive and not limited to sexual minorities. In many communities there is no better alternative either logistically or financially for hosting a large public event.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Then why did the court rule that way? -nt

[JerseygirlCT]

32. See my post below

The piece might explain to you why it's not just a church, and this isn't just a case of convenience.

[donco6]

4. We have ours on the football field.

Have for many, many, many years. Only inside if it rains at 11:00 a.m. - which doesn't happen here.

[Obamanaut]

5. It is just a building. ETA the same thing was posted while I was typing.

[YOY]

7. We had ours in a church. Granted it was a Catholic School and the affiliated church...

n.t.

[brendan120678]

8. This has been a pretty big story the past few days...

here in Connecticut. Don't know if it's had much national exposure, though.

[Bill McBlueState]

10. this is an issue around Cincinnati

The schools are saying that there's no Establishment Clause problem, because the megachurches that host these things look totally unlike anything resembling a place of worship.

I think that says a lot about the megachurch movement.

[el_bryanto]

13. Yeah that does. I think it's an issue if the megachurch has any say in how the ceremony

is conducted - otherwise it does strike me as just a building.

Bryant

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

15. at my brothers grad the only megachurchers were manning the AV gear

The school just rented the building for an afternoon, the alter was covered in school stuff and not religious paraphernalia.

[COLGATE4]

22. I think that what's being overlooked

is that the Judge made several findings of fact, among which was that there were 4 or 5 other venues available to the school without using the church. There has so far been no explanation as to why they insisted on it only being the church, not one of the other, non-religious sites.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Deliberately and disingenuously overlooked, I say.

As is par for the course for the anti-SoCaS apologists.

[hobbit709]

21. So hold it in the auditorium like ours was in 1968.

Or even at the high school football stadium.

[Junkie Brewster]

23. Good night, if it's that small, how to they hold sporting events?

Seriously?

I'm an atheist, as are my parents. When I graduated, my dad was on the school board. Our choir teacher wanted the graduating seniors, all 10 of us, to sing a Xian song called "Friends".

And a friend's a friend forever
If the Lord's the lord of them

I flat-out refused to do the number. I suggested we sing "Let The River Run", a much better written song musically and appropriate for a group of kids setting out to take on the world.

Let the river run!
Let all the dreamers wake the nation

Seven of us agreed with me. At first, the choir teacher wouldn't hear of it, but I think he was more angry at having his authority challenged by some dumb kids. We practiced on our own, and impressed the principal enough that we were allowed to sing both songs.

I don't have a problem with religious music. I've played piano since I was five, guitar since I was eight, and I picked up violin at the age of ten. I love music history, particularly early music and Baroque-era music, so many of you are probably familiar with just how much religion is in that music. I had a problem with singing a crappy, sappy song for the express reason that it was Xian. Just because it invokes Jesus doesn't mean it doesn't suck.

[JerseygirlCT]

34. 2 HS in town, and apparently there are plenty of even less expensive

and secular options.

They opted for the church because the GOP members of the school board were lobbied and supported by state and national hate groups - who wanted to use Enfield to make a point of their own.

We have a huge HS in our town. Graduation is in the football field, and yes, tickets are limited. Perhaps a shame, but that's what happens when you have well over 2000 kids in the school.

[geardaddy]

39. Bingo.

According to one poster from the OP's link:

This had nothing to do with costs and everything to do with Board of Ed Chairman Greg Stokes religious agenda. Check out the Family Institute of Connecticut's (FIC) own blog: http://www.ctfamily.org/blog/2010/04/15/enfield-victory-the-inside-story

[Arugula Latte]

24. No way in hell I would want my graduation in some stupid church.

Churches are creepy ... Separate church and state.

[BolivarianHero]

26. Good...

Fundamentalists don't deserve money from a school system that exists to teach the truth.

[JerseygirlCT]

31. This is a good piece explaining the real reason for this ridiculous suit

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/courant-columnists/hc-green,0,3979875.columnist

The Family Institute is odious, the church involved is run by a homophobe... this is a purely and cynically driven move to use Enfield to further their own hate-laden agenda.

[donco6]

33. Interesting editorial.

I wouldn't want to be graduating in that church either. In fact, I think I'd have had to skip it entirely.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. We're talking about a

pretty conservative, fundamentalist church. The pastor has taken some pretty loud stands against gay rights, for instance.

Yeah, not an appropriate venue at all.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. Sorry - computer burp - dupe

pretty conservative, fundamentalist church. The pastor has taken some pretty loud stands against gay rights, for instance.

Yeah, not an appropriate venue at all.

[donco6]

37. It's doing that a lot today. n/t

[brendan120678]

38. Here's today's Editorial on this issue from...

my local right-wing Rag.
They almost compliment the judge on her thoroughness, but not quite...

Church-state separation: Judge helpful, but still wrong

When the Bill of Rights was ratified Dec. 15, 1791, Connecticut and a number of other states had official religions. The framers of the Constitution knew this when they wrote: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..." The key word is "Congress." There would be no national religion as there was in Great Britain. But the Constitution did not ban state religions.

Over the years, one state after another dropped its official religion; Connecticut did so in 1818. Its constitution protects religious freedom for individuals but does not specifically limit transactions involving religious and government organizations.

As in most things, an accumulation of case law has broadened federal authority to the point where a choice the framers left to the states literally became a federal case pitting anonymous plaintiffs against Enfield public schools. U.S. District Judge Janet C. Hall ruled Monday that the Enfield Board of Education violated the First Amendment by scheduling commencement exercises for Enfield and Fermi high schools at First Cathedral, a large Christian church in Bloomfield.

Judge Hall, who personally visited First Cathedral, did an admirable job of fact-finding that might have been useful before the litigation train ever left the station. She found, for instance, that Symphony Hall in Springfield, Mass., which is three and a half miles closer to Enfield High School than First Cathedral, seats 2,611 (compared with 3,000 at the cathedral), and would have cost at least $5,000 less for both schools' graduation ceremonies. It charges attendees $3 a car for parking, however; parking at First Cathedral is free.

Judge Hall also learned school officials in past years did not keep their promises to mask or remove religious symbols and banners before graduation ceremonies. Certainly, school leaders should have done a better job of explaining why venues such as Symphony Hall were rejected. They also should have shown how this year would be different with respect to their promises to have religious symbols and slogans covered or removed.

Judge Hall cited a 1971 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Lemon vs. Kurtzman, the gist of which was that contacts between government and religion "must have a secular purpose; have a principal effect that neither advances nor inhibits religion; and not bring about an excessive government entanglement with religion." This is a triply troubling standard because it is at odds with the meaning of the actual words in the Constitution. Judge Hall further muddied the waters by concluding Enfield's choice amounts to an "endorsement" of a particular religion — a highly debatable point in its own right, rendered moot by the fact "endorsement" does not come within shouting distance of the constitutional threshold of "establishment."

In her 51-page ruling, Judge Hall proved Enfield school leaders should have been more diligent in their search for graduation venues and more forthcoming with their findings. But that's all she proved.

The notion that renting a religious building for a secular purpose somehow violates the establishment clause remains just as faulty as it was before Judge Hall went on her fact-finding mission. The school board was expected to decide Thursday night to file an appeal today; indeed, Judge Hall's ruling should be overturned.

Link: http://www.rep-am.com/articles/2010/06/04/opinion/487233.txt

[JerseygirlCT]

40. I don't know, sometimes your paper

almost (almost) makes me appreciate the Courant.

You'd think a state as educated as CT might have better papers...