If healthcare reform was passed .....

[Scuba]

....without a single vote from the Republicans, why is it such a watered-down version of what we really need?

I advocate single-payer, Medicare for all. Thirty-plus hears in healthcare administration taught me one thing: the health insurance industry takes 30% of our healthcare dollars without adding any value to the process.

[area51]

1. +1

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

[Scuba]

3. Serial killers? ...

... I believe the term "mass murderers" is more accurate. Serial killers don't destroy nearly as many lives and look like Boy Scouts by comparison.

[LooseWilly]

2. Why watered down? Because Democrats are just as bought?

I mean... what other answer makes any sense? With enough votes to pass pretty much anything... and the prospect of just making shit more and more tough on the corporations that (supposedly) buy Republicans... the Democrats were in a position to dictate terms... unless they're also bought by the corporations.

Or... (bwahahaha... I can't say this with a straight face, excuse me) maybe the Democrats were worried about... uhhmm... the loss of jobs from the private health care industry?... Maybe, with the economy as bad as it was/is, they were afraid of setting terms that would cause the insuarance companies to have to fire all the claims adjusters that are paid to deny valid claims from people who've been paying their insurance... in order to save the corporations money... I mean, that's a lot of jobs- right?...

[Scuba]

4. You've got to wonder, don't you?

[LooseWilly]

5. It's almost like they're trying consciously to alienate voters and lose their majorities...

so that they can continue to pose as the "opposition to corporate malfeasance" party, while never actually stopping any malfeasance... but rather acting as a sort of "release valve" for societal pressures that mount about... corporate malfeasance.

If a voter is really pissed off about it... they vote Democratic. "That'll teach the corporations..." except it won't, because that is just a bit of theater that has been set up as an option... but which won't actually lead to any change in cast, let alone script, of the overall performance...

Of course, there's always the possibility that I'm just being paranoid. I mean, there's no evidence that I'm wrong... not that I can see, no matter how much I look and hope to prove myself wrong... but there is always the off-chance of someone being cast for the performance who actually believes that the script isn't just meant for the cameras... but actually something to truly try to follow through with.

Of course, a sap like that will probably wind up shot through the brain in a place like Dallas... I mean, who're we kidding here?

[Scuba]

6. As the old saying goes...

The reason for the Democrats is so that there's no alternative to the Republicans.

[LooseWilly]

7. Hehe... thanks for the genuine chuckle

I'd not heard that before... and it is spectacularly apt. ;)

[lib2DaBone]

21. DemoCorps or RepubliCorps.. choose your poison.....

Democants or Republinots ... its a case of BOHICA factor.... (bend over here it comes again) :-)

[zipplewrath]

8. Because Obama didn't want it

He came into the process preferring a 15 year old system designed by the GOP to prevent nationalized health care. He sided with the conservative democrats at every significant junction and allowed them to leverage the GOP opposition to prevent any really transformative change. He reversed himself on several key issues, and began negotiations on almost DAY 1 with the industrial interests of the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry. He got on a plane and flew to Kucinich's district, but never even picked up the phone to talk to Lieberman.


Basically, he got what he wanted.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

9. I agree that he got the reform he wanted

He denied single payer any credance whatsoever. He made Max Baucus the point person in charge in the Senate. He negotiated a crap deal with Pharma behind closed doors that precluded Medicare drug negotiation and worked zealously behind the scenes to kill off Dorgan's drug re-importation amendment. And the "public option"? Fageddaboutit!

Who knew that we would basically get Romneycare? Passed by Democrats only? That basically solves no issues of cost containment? That will contiunue to bankrupt Americans with the co-pays, deductables and drug costs? That retained rescission for "fraud" (exactly like we have now)? That retained "annual" caps even though lifetime caps were removed? (How good are lifetime caps if annual caps stay in place?)

We will STILL pay twice as much as the rest of the world, but some of the costs will just be shifted to government.

"Reform" was a disgrace. And it is a completely Democratic disgrace.

[girl gone mad]

13. He got what he wanted, and you have to wonder..

is it a case of the old adage 'be careful what you wish for, because it might come true'?

Polls show a majority of voters now favor a repeal of health reform, even though it was front loaded with popular changes and the most unpopular provisions haven't even kicked in yet. With nothing in the bill to contain or reduce costs, it's all downhill from here.

[Mari333]

10. lots of dems in the pockets of Big Insurance and Big Pharma

[BzaDem]

11. Because you need 60 votes in the Senate, and Lieberman would rather kill HCR than vote for a PO?

Why do people who ask these questions not take the time to understand how our government works?

[zipplewrath]

12. So Obama got on a plane....

Flew up to his district to try to influence him....

Oh, no, wait. That'd a been "retarted". Now where was it he flew?????

[BzaDem]

14. What makes you think there was even a possibility that such "influence" might work?

Lieberman has a grudge against the Democratic party for what happened in 2006. He is unlikely to win in 2012 regardless. This was his chance to stick it to the Democrats, and he was going to take it. Obama pushing for it in CT would have made him even MORE likely to kill it.

[zipplewrath]

15. He didn't even call him

Joe revealed well into the fall that the White House, much less Obama, had never even called him to discuss the issue anytime in 2009. But they can get on a plane and fly to Dennis' district.

It tends to suggest that they didn't really want old Joe to particularly change his stance AT ALL. He made a nice foil for what they ultimately got anyway. I mean, they didn't even call him.

[bvar22]

16. Obama could have CRUSHED Joe Lieberman....

...if he wanted to.
Lieberman was simply an excuse.

[AnArmyVeteran]

22. Absolutely! If Obama was 1/1000th of LBJ we would have the public option

LBJ made a lot of mistakes, but at least he knew how to get things done. He was a powerful man. He certainly wouldn't have let Lieberman or anyone else get in the way of something he wanted done or passed. Obama could have done a lot of things, but he gave up on the public option and sold out to the insurance industry. I have no idea where candidate-Obama went. And I don't even know who that guy is in the White House any longer.

[bvar22]

24. LOL

Can you picture Joe Lieberman or Harry Reid standing up and saying "NO" to LBJ?
:rofl:
They would STILL be trying to find all the pieces to their asses.

Truth is, Obama is from "Chicago".
He rose to the TOP in Chicago.
He KNOWS how to make offers that can't be refused.
Ask the Progressive Caucus.
He hasn't hesitated use Chicago tactics to FORCE them into his "Centrist" (Republican Appeasing) agenda....
on Health Care Deform, Wall Street Bailouts, CC reform, and Money for WAR.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans."---Paul Wellstone


On a happy note:
I live in Arkansas, and have just returned from casting my run off vote AGAINST "Centrist" Blanche Lincoln.

[AnArmyVeteran]

28. Good for you bvar22! Lincoln is a corporate whore.

I like your picture of Paul Wellstone. Wasn't his death eerily convenient just before the election? The democratic senator from Missouri was killed in a small plane crash too that year if I remember correctly. But thankfully his wife won in his place. I'm not a conspiracy theory freak, but I wouldn't rule out any evil act by the republican party.

[kctim]

17. Because moderate views

must also be taken into account. 'All or nothing' doesn't work so well in politics.

[Scuba]

18. "Moderate" views? C'mon man.

Nothing moderate about the republicans.

[kctim]

19. Moderate Democrats

You said 'without Republicans' so I was speaking only of Democrats. Sorry for not being more clear.

[Scuba]

20. Ahh. DINO's. I get it.

[kctim]

23. Yep

DINO's to some, moderates to many.
Either way, you're question is answered.

[bvar22]

25. No such thing as a "moderate" in politics.

There are people who STAND UP for their beliefs,
AND,
there are people who lack the courage of their convictions.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[kctim]

27. Then what about

those who believe in government help for those who need it but also respect a persons choice to want it or not? What "convictions" are they lacking the courage to fight for when they vote for helping those in need and against forcing others against their beliefs?
If they stand for effective government AND freedom of choice, should they not fight just as hard as those who do not stand for BOTH?

[Festivito]

26. Because ALL Repubs and TEN Dems were purchased. /nt