Is the BP oil catastrophe a turning point?

[mix]

Poll question: Is the BP oil catastrophe a turning point?

Or will we stay addicted to fossil fuels for the foreseeable future?

[Renew Deal]

1. Money talks

[mix]

2. So

if the market pronounced green alternatives profitable and viable, there will be a shift? Or are you saying that the financial power of the oil companies will prolong our addiction?

[Renew Deal]

19. I'm saying that as long as gas is the cheapest-easiest solution

It will continue to dominate.

[mix]

20. gotcha...sadly true nt

[Mojeoux]

26. We've got to get Greedy about Green.

The shift has to be profitable because it's true that money talks.
But we can DO this. A united America can do anything.

[mix]

39. Do our leaders have the courage and vision to lead...I am not optimistic.

The Obama administration seems unable to seize the moment and break with the past, despite numerous opportunities to change direction.

[AnArmyVeteran]

34. BP lost 90 billion in stock value & perhaps 100 billion in damages.

How many renewable energy devices could have been created with 190 BILLION dollars?

We need a radical change. And like during WWII we need to have shared sacrifices for ALL Americans. I read once, but still need to verify this, but I believe FDR put a limit on the amount anyone could earn at $25,000 a year. He thought everyone should contribute and help each other out. Can you imagine what the right wing would say if CEO's salaries were reduced from 10 million a year to a paltry $500,000? Oh the humanity. How could they survive?

[gateley]

3. I think it's a turning point in that it will make more people aware of the dangers

of oil exploration, but until 'clean energy' becomes a big profit maker, I don't know how soon we'll see actual change.

[mix]

9. Maybe that is why the federal government needs to subsidize alternatives,

The market, which is focused on profit and not the public weal, might not be the oracle we need to solve our energy problems.

[gateley]

11. That's something I'd gladly like to see my taxes go toward. nt

[mix]

15. me too, better that than to the war machine nt

[Uncle Joe]

4. Yes, I believe it will be a watershed event, the cost will become too obvious and profound

for our society not to see the light.

Thanks for the thread, mix.

[mikita]

5. agreed n/t

[AngryOldDem]

7. I also agree.

Mainly because I think we have yet to see the true fallout from this. Society will not be able to ignore the ramifications.

[Uncle Joe]

16. Yes, tragically this catastrophe and the ramifications of it are just beginning.

Life for an entire region will be drastically altered and this will have long term national reverberations.

As just one tiny microdot affect, I believe Barton kissed his political career goodbye by doing what Republicans have done for decades, take up the side of corporations over that of the "We the People's" government and in turn the American People.

[mix]

17. I hope you are right re Barton.

The fact that this catastrophe is still unfolding is an important point to remember.

We still do not know the full ramifications yet and won't for some time.

[AngryOldDem]

24. I hope you're right about Barton.

There was no excuse for that comment.

[Uncle Joe]

27. Maybe Barton did have excuse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8581356

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. It's hard to imagine that "nothing will change." nt

[AsahinaKimi]

8. It should be but...

Some how I doubt it will become one. Sad, very sad.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. It's caused a lot of ripples beyond the gulf, many of which have yet to be felt.

The oil companies will attempt to cover their asses with promises of future good behavior. The politicians will try to cover their asses by setting up studies, committees, commissions, promising to "look into" the catastrophe.

But, the CYA attempts may fail as the still-to-felt ripples hit shore, environmentally, economically, and politically.

[mix]

37. This catastrophe probably still has many many unwritten chapters.

I agree that the usual CYA approach of our politicians and corporations might prove ineffective in mastering this crisis.

The scale and difficulty of this problem could be beyond the scope of our ability to stop it. It's terrifying.

[montanto]

12. I haven't noticed much change in driving habits.

Lots of people pointing fingers, but people are still driving their cars while they do so.

[golddigger]

13. Nothing changed in 1979

why should it change now.

[Art_from_Ark]

23. Actually, things did change in 1979

Plans for new nuclear power plants were dramatically scaled down, thanks to TMI (and the Black Fox nuclear plant in Oklahoma was cancelled)
Carter got most of his energy package passed. Heck, you could start a mini windmill farm at your home if you wanted to, and sell any excess electricity to the grid. Carter was also big on solar power (he even installed solar panels at the White House)
The problem was, Carter was replaced by a total imbecile who thought that trees caused more pollution than automobiles.

[City Lights]

14. Had to go with "nothing will change."

:-(

[NNN0LHI]

18. Expect a knee jerk public opinion swing to nuclear until the next major reactor event

And then public opinion will swing back the other way. In between we will keep the perpetual motion machine known as Ethanol going with tax credits until there is nothing left to eat. Then opinion will swing somewhere else.

Don

[Catherina]

21. It should be but it won't

Nothing will change because there's no profit in alternative energy. The federal government has made it clear already.

The only way things can change is if we change the system. For this system, oil is a critical source of profit and a strategic weapon to control the global economy and other countries which depend on oil.

[mix]

22. I agree sadly...

With oil, of course, comes not just environmental catastrophe, but more geopolitical conflict, more oil wars.

Lovely system we've built for ourselves.

[closeupready]

25. They'll likely fix it in the autumn, and then we keep consuming oil and fossil fuels.

n/t

[Subdivisions]

28. Not just yet. But it will be. We still have as long to go as it's already until

the relief well is completed. And that's at the earliest estimates. Luckily, they apparently have the best driller in the world in charge of the relief wells operations.

[joeybee12]

29. My option...should be, but isn't...n/t

[LaurenG]

30. It better be a turning point! nt

[WinkyDink]

31. No. (See: 2000 Coup d'Etat)

[Feron]

32. Nothing will change.

America will forget and move on.

The Gulf Coasters will be left behind to pick up the pieces.

Same as it ever was.

[Feron]

33. Nothing will change.

America will forget and move on.

The Gulf Coasters will be left behind to pick up the pieces.

Same as it ever was.

[Toucano]

35. It really can be.

If we get our shit together and get organized, it could be the catalyst for all the change we desperately need.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

36. turning point...

[XemaSab]

38. I think we missed that exit

There's still time to loop around and catch it, but the opportunities for that grow dimmer every day. :(

[stuntcat]

40. I had to vote Other

I hope it is a turning point, I would not bet a dime on it though.

[Angry Dragon]

41. It is a point where we are given a choice

We can either change or keep on going in the same direction
That is why I choose other.

[Sebastian Doyle]

42. Yes, it's a turning point

..towards the inevitable, and now irreversible destruction of this planet. :evilfrown:

We have no idea how bad this is. If the Gulf of Mexico was an isolated body of water, like some huge lake, it would be awful enough. This shit will eventually make it to the Atlantic ocean. And just in time for Hurricane season.

[mix]

43. I hate to say this...

but it really does seem like the planet is environmentally, not mention politically and socio-economically, spinning out of control.

And I am not optimistic that our political class/elite knows the answers. In fact, I am pretty sure they don't.

[William Z. Foster]

47. we are getting their answers

Their answers are what are causing the calamity. Retaining their power is the only thing they are worried about. Many of them may deny to themselves that this inevitably means a living Hell for the rest of us, as well as an utterly destroyed environment, and massive suffering and civil unrest. None of them much care that all of this insanity is unsustainable and will all come crashing down soon, they are obsessed with getting theirs, with making the big score, before the whole rotten structure collapses. As the evidence piles up that we are nearing the end, the investors and speculators are becoming more and more frenzied in their efforts to extract and grab for themselves every last dollar that can be wrung out of a badly beleaguered environment and an impoverished and terrorized population.

The psychology of those in power is similar to the psychology of an addict. They are addicted to power, and they dominate our culture at all levels and have re-designed it to suit them. Gaining power means controlling wealth, and that means Wall Street and pushing share prices up, and that means and ever more frantic exploitation of natural resources, that means cutting corners, that means smashing through any and all barriers including regulations, that means driving wages down, and that mans leaving a horrible mess behind you.

The addict will say whatever they need to say to get the next fix, make a lot of promises - put money in escrow to clean up the mess from the last binge, promise to go to treatment in the form of "commissions" to "study" the problem, tell us that next time it will be different, apologize, "take responsibility," and lie, lie, lie.

It is interesting that there is an attempt to cast the blame back on those who are suffering - all of us - with the talk about how we are all "addicted to oil." There is addictive behavior going on, all right, but it is not we the working class people who are at fault. We are dominated by people addicted to power - who seek to control and dominate others, and their behavior is seen as the behavior of the "winners," and control freaks and bullies at all levels of the society emulate and admire the crazed and dangerous addicts who rule our every waking moment.

[William Z. Foster]

44. yes

It is a turning point in two ways. First, it represents a serious catastrophe, the first of many to come, that is the product of the escalating frenzy to extract the last possible profit at any and all costs from an already beleaguered environment and population. Secondly, it has started a firestorm, small yet but growing, of public understanding of and opposition to this escalating frenzy to extract the last possible profit from everything, and the social arrangements and conventions that have led to this. We have passed a point of no return.

It is not a turning point in partisan politics, nor in people's lifestyle choices. Those were always feeble hopes, anyway - hoping that voting or buying different things could effect social and political change - but they have now been revealed to be absurd delusions.

[mix]

45. brilliant read, thanks! nt

[William Z. Foster]

46. a big foot and a very small shoe

Everyone is trying to cram Gulliver's foot into a Lilliputian size shoe.

This not about partisan politics or the fortunes of any politician, this is not about money and who pays or who is to blame, this is not about people's lifestyle choices. Those are all very small shoes. While we obsessed over those tiny shoes, that giant foot gets closer and closer, and it will crush us. More and more people in the general public are becoming aware of that, and they are in no mood to be told who to vote for or how to shop or what changes they should make to their lifestyle, nor will they abide being lectured and blamed for things that are so obviously out of their power to control (which is the root cause of the problem - we have no power), nor can they be bought off by BP or anyone else.

[LWolf]

48. We'll stay addicted to fossil fuels until the last dime of profit has been had. nt