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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:49 AM
Original message
I Ate a Hippie
{1} “Many of us are, again, hunters and gatherers. Poets, musicians, nomadic engineers and scholars: fact-diggers, searchers and re-searchers scoring in rich foundation territory. Horse-traders in lore and magic.”
--Gary Snyder; Earth House Hold; 1968.

I was never a “hippie” in the literal sense, though often other human beings mistook me for one because I have always favored long hair. It's not that I don't like short-haired people: I do. In fact, many of my best friends have short hair. And, if I lived in a neighborhood, I wouldn't mind if a short-haired family moved in. But, I do not live in a neighborhood – I inhabit a margin of society, and in my experiences in the general era of the hippies was such that a few short-haired people who mistook me for a hippie were of a mindset which caused them to attempt to push around or beat up a hippie for fun and recreation. Always and without exception, at these times the mistaken person(s) found out that rather than a hippie, I was an extremely angry and frustrated farm kid who loved to fight, and who had nothing to lose – except possibly that giant chip on my shoulder – and that they had made a serious error in touching me in an aggressive manner.

A wonderful OP/thread regarding the nature and contributions of hippies that I enjoyed reading yesterday and this morning touched me in a different way. Maybe, to quote John Lennon, it's because, “I'm not half the man I used to be/ now that I've become an amputee,” in the sense that I have largely moved beyond the angers and frustrations of the past. I'd like to take an opportunity to say a few things about the hippies from my generally comfortable margin.

One thing that struck me yesterday was that there are definitions that others subscribe to, which are very different than my own. This is a common reality one encounters on the Democratic Underground, and one that tends to create much disagreement when unaddressed. For the sake of this OP, I think of the hippies in the context of what Gary Snyder spoke of in his classic 1968 book. For those who do not have a copy of “Earth House Hold,” a more current book I enjoy is “HIPPIE,” by Barry Miles (2005).

There were also “Yippies!, “ the more political though closely related group of the same era. And later the “Zippies,” an off-shoot that subscribed to works of Thomas Forcade, and eventually the “Yuppies,” who subscribed to the dollar.

Now, back to the hippies. One misconception about hippies began as a lie: while some hippies were “spoiled rich kids” who rejected their parents' values, many were middle class at best, and many were poor kids. The rejection of parental/societal values is, of course, a common theme of youth in an industrial society. Thus, the hippies were quite simply a segment of America's children.

I suppose there is some merit to the “snotty-nosed brats” position. These young people had the pleasures of “civil defense drills,” where they could either seek the safety of hiding under their desks in the classroom, or sticking their heads between their legs in their school's hallways, just in case the USSR decided to help Americans become an extinct species by way of nuclear attack. Race relations across the nation were great, except for some communist-inspired efforts to disrupt the Norman Rockwell picture of the 1950s. Young women enjoyed the freedom of choices of what TV dinner to make for the family. Young men could aspire to a job where they could wear a neck tie, that wonderful fashion statement that suggested nothing if not the collar and leash of domestic Lassiehood.

This was the red, white, and blue bliss that featured none other than Ronald Reagan serving as the spokesman of consumption, during those commercial breaks during “Father Knows Best.” Everything was wonderful, except that the pesky Viet Cong were intent upon rejecting the American way of Life magazine. They had to be stopped. Luckily, VP Nixon was in charge of all covert operations in Central and South America, which was actually double-lucky, because most Americans weren't able to find Viet Nam on a globe, and because what they didn't know surely could not hurt them. Everything was good in those Death Valley Days.

But then Lee Hardly Oddball and other communist-inspired civil rights activists upset the apple cart.

{2} “Psycho-politicians are using the Beatles music to hypnotize American youth and prepare them for future submission to subversive control. (It is) a systematic plan geared to making a generation of American youth mentally ill and emotionally unstable.”
--Rev. David A. Noebel; Communism, Hypnotism, and the Beatles.

America's children were warned. Rev. Noebel also published the classic pamplet, “The Beatles: A Study in Drugs, Sex, and Revolution,” (Christian Crusade Publications). And Rev. Cecil Masey preached from his Colorado pulpit that Jesus wore a crew cut, and delivered sermons on the dangers of long hair. Despite these inspired teachings, many young people in the 1960s began to question the very foundations of American culture: the assassination of JFK, “better dead than red,” the need to protect the flag in Vietnam, and Rev. Jim Crow. Clearly, what Rev. Noebel referred to as “little Ringo's jungle beat” was responsible.

It was, of course, far more widespread a threat to Reagan's America, than simply a bunch of kids wearing colorful clothing and listening to loud music. There were beatniks, civil rights protesters, ungrateful Native Americans and Mexican Americans, the Weather Underground, and many other groups and even individuals who questioned the comforts of a rigid society. They protested segregation, the draft, the war, and “the system.” There were communes and concerts and street theater and more.

The utter sadness that Ma and Pop felt from their children's betrayal of faith in the American sitcom is found in “She's Leaving Home,” which the Beatles mistakenly included on Sgt. Peppers. They had done their best, but college professors and British music made America's youth vulnerable to submission to subversive control. These children refused to submit to the wholesome control of the neck tie and bra.

Surely the hippies are primarily responsible for all that went wrong in those days. They threw money into the NY Stock Exchange; exercised their Constitutional rights by holding peaceful protests; joined forces with the Civil Rights movement; embraced Muhammad Ali, and wore colorful clothing. Thus, they caused the deaths of Martin Luther King, and Robert Kennedy; they caused patriotic policemen in Chicago to riot; and killed themselves and others at Kent State. Read between the lines of “The Strawberry Statement.”

Luckily, there were patriotic and decorated war veterans such as Dan Quayle, George W. Bush, and Dick Cheney, who would use their experiences to not only lead this nation, but also expose those dirty hippies for what they were: losers. The changes they made did not cure all of humanities' ills for eternity. Losers. Some dropped out of society, joined communes, and made candles. Can you imagine what type of weakling makes candles, instead of drilling for oil? Losers. Some had children and eventually joined the system. They became day care providers, teachers, lawyers, and organic farmers. The lowest of the low.


{3} “How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?”
--Lennon/McCartney; Baby, You're a Rich Man

Today, at a time when our nation faces problems similar to those of the 1950s, there are people who still listen to The Beatles. It's important to remember that songs such as “Baby, You're a Rich Man” are actually about being a hippie, not an oil executive, and hence are still subversively dangerous. There are parents and grandparents who really believe it would be grand if the younger generation would rebel against the comforts of Reagan's America today. These elders recognize that there was and still is value in their experiences, things that today's youth could learn from. And, although a resurgence of a hippie-type youth culture could not possible cure all of the world's ills, it has the promise of some benefits.

There are clearly those who agree, and those who disagree. Even here on DU. Yet, perhaps that is the way it is supposed to be, for a true democracy is only obtained through constant struggle.

Peace,
H2O Man
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. No sex threads, please...
:rofl:
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You are so bad!


:spank:



As usual, a great thread by our esteemed H2O Man, even if it is too sexy.....


Rec and kick :kick:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Gracious!
Surely, I did not intend the essay's title to be a foreplay on words.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. nevertheless it will go down

as one of your best :D


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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. I see what you did there
:spank:


:rofl:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Ha!
Bad. Very bad! And very much appreciated!

We should talk stones some day. (I read where you explained your name.) My family laughs about my addiction to rocks: ancient artifacts, fossils, etc.
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
87. Says "Uncle Freak"
:rofl:
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Champion Jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for writing this!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Thanks for reading it!
Without exception, my old hippie friends have stayed true to their beliefs. They were and are a great influence on my way of thinking. More, I enjoy their interacting with my children -- two of whom are kind of "new" hippies.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
104. K&R. We aren't all dead yet.
:hi:
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. Ah, I could say so much about this...
I live in Oregon, right now the County Historical Society has an exhibit at their museum about the impact of the counter culture on our area, then and now, and I wish everyone here could go see it, it makes much truth evident.
But since the museum can not come to everyone, please allow me to continue my habit of film recommends. Ang Lee, the director of many great films such as 'Eat Drink, Man, Woman' 'The Ice Storm' and 'Brokeback Mountain' made a film last year called 'Taking Woodstock' which I think anyone who wishes to understand that time a bit better should watch, and those who remember it well should also watch. And dear H2OMan, anyone who loves that region, that slice of NY, this film is a love letter to that place, and that time. This film is not so much about the festival but about what the festival and the attendees brought with them to White Lakes, and about the local boy who brought it there, and how that changed everything for him, his parents, his world.
It is a sweet, sweet film, pretty, makes you want to buy a farm in the Catskills, or hit the road in a van, or make a deal that changes the culture.
It is not the film I expected it to be, the film I skipped for several months, thinking it was material that has been done before.
Liev Schrieber, Emile Hirsch, Eugene Levy as Max Yasgur, best chocolate milk in New York....
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. "Taking Woodstock"
is on one of the channels that I get. Years ago, a friend and I joined David Peel & (the original) Lower East Side Gang on stage for a few songs at a Woodstock reunion. David is one of the long-term Yippie! activists. From him, I've learned a bit more of the history behind the "US vs John Lennon" bit.

My normal brother insists that Oregon is the best place to live.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. You will dig that movie.
Oregon is good. This weekend was Oregon Country Fair, and the town is filled with painted buses and tie dye. A good time and place.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
94. Oregon is the promised land for hippies. I know. But we are everywhere. In fact we were
global when global was cool!
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. We watched "Taking Woodstock" last summer...
...around the time of the 40th anniversary.
Lots of fun, particularly shortly after seeing "Woodstock."
A number of the scenes are reworkings of the scenes from the concert film, sort of shot from a different angle. I assumed it was going to be about the music, but it was nothing like that.

Here in New York City, we have the Yippie Museum Cafe:

http://www.yippiemuseum.org/

It's run by Dana Beal (Global Marijuana March) and A.J. Weberman (Garbology and "the world's biggest Dylan nut"). My band played there a couple of years ago, and they have lots of live music and poetry readings and other 21st century hippie goings-on. They've got a great collection of photos and "artifacts" from back in the day, and you can buy a copy of the Yippie Handbook and other stuff they publish. I haven't been by there in a while. I think it's time to go back...


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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. I think that
David Peel likely plays there. I know that he has worked with Dana on numerous projects over the years. I always enjoyed the Yippie! newspaper, "Overthrow (Yipster Times)."

A few years back, my then late-teenaged sons "found" David on an internet site. They thought I'd be surprised (even shocked) by his music. Instead, I got out my old LPs, along with some rare tapes David had given me over the years, and some John & Yoko stuff.
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. I haven't seen David Peel on the calendar of events...
I don't know if those guys all hang out or not.
Doesn't seem like it.
Aron "Pieman" Kay seems to spend a lot of time there.
He pied Anita Bryant in 1977, and many others.
I still have my copy of "Blacklisted News / Secret Histories" that I bought from them on the street like 25 years ago.

Good times, man... Good times.
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GReedDiamond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
83. I'm in Los Angeles and I first met Aron in 1978...
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 09:50 PM by GReedDiamond
...at the Washington D.C. July 4th Smoke-In. (At that time and for sometime after, I was a Los Angeles "distributor" of Overthrow, so, being motivated by the cause, I took a Trailways bus round-trip, L.A. to D.C., for the smoke-in. Prior to that, I had been a teenage Yippie! activist through my high school years in the Chicago area.)

At the D.C. smoke-in, Aron hooked me up with a friend of his from back in L.A., "Ronnie Roach" aka "Stephen Stink."

Steve (who was running the L.A Chapter of Rock Against Racism) and I, started the band, Benedict Arnold & The Traitors, in late '79.

Our last CD (released 2008) should be available at the Yippie! coffeehouse, I shipped a small crate full to Aron a couple of months ago.

If you see Aron, tell him Tim Konspiracy from L.A. sez "high!" And tell him I said he should comp you a CD!

On edit: I must also compliment H2OMan for his fine OP. The "hippies" are often ridiculed and slandered, including sometimes here on DU. I never considered myself to be a "hippie," but I was a Yippie!/Zippie!/Yippie! (and still am).
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. Waterman!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Hi, WS!
One of the things that I noticed in the other thread on "hippies" was that several people who took an anti-hip stance clung to the idea that "they didn't win" and "they changed." One doesn't "win" in democracy in the sense they focus on, they participate. Yet, one can definitely "lose" by failing to participate in the manner that their conscience recommends.

Constant struggle. As an old, long-retired boxer, I couldn't ask for more!
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jaksavage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. You are the person
I aspire to be.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. You honor me
with statements like that. I'm mighty happy to be on the same team with you.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Another great post from
the Waterman. :grouphug: :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. It's kind of a
strange OP, I think. I wrote it in the early morning hours. At first I was thinking about adding my two cents to the other thread, but I wrote a bit too much. Then, I thought that it might not make sense to anyone other than the sleep-deprived. But, after the sun came up, I thought what the heck.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I love it
:D
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, H2OMan.:thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Thank you.
I admire and respect what hippies did for America.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. I agree, they were the true conscious for change, for something better.
What they didn't have was traditional power; be it political or media and this proved to be an insurmountable obstacle for many of them.

Today with the advent of the Internet, I believe those twin obstacles are evaporating and much of Hippie ideology; that being a more intimate connection to the environment, humanity at large, and personal freedom will rise as the Phoenix.

Peace to you.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. Peace, Love, Dope....Right?
What strikes me today is how many conservatives are dying to get back to those days....they still worship at the altar of the great god Raygun and if they could they'd have the USSR bomb all those pesky ex-hippies out of existence.

What I love about this thread is that, within, you've continued the 'grand tradition' of the Plame threads, with their Beatle undercurrent.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. The Beatles
were certainly the most influential spokespersons of youth in that era. Early in their career, before they were famous, they were Teddy boys, or beatniks, in an artistic sense. People can debate if they became the agents of change, or rode an energy wave; I think it was a combination of the two.

It surprises me when I read anti-Beatle comments on DU. I understand that people can enjoy a range of music, and that not everyone favored the Beatles' music. But disliking them strikes me as at odds with progressive thinking. The attacks on hippies does, too. I wasn't surprised, though, at an early "unrecommend" for this OP.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I find myself surprised at Anti-Beatles comments as well...
regardless of what you think of their music they changed everything. The impact they had on not just music but on politics and pop culture is unmatched by anyone any time. What really kills me is when I see musicians, up and coming kids, who are basically standing on the Beatles shoulders treat the band that created half the recording techniques used today with such derision.

On another note, great post... K&R
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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. The Beatles
Granted, I think a lot of the Gen Xers that slam the Beatles are reacting to the way many Boomer Yuppies used them to hide the fact they were really not all that progressive. People like Lennon and Dylan often hated the fact that people who claimed to love their music often did the exact opposite. It's like when Don Henley sang about the fact he saw "a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac." However, I will be the first to say, that save for the mp3s, a lot of my music might has well have been on 8track :)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. I Think They Were The Messengers Of Change
and had the ability to express it brilliantly.

As to unrec...I've often been surprised by some I've gotten on innocuous threads. I've put it down to 'there's always someone, somewhere, against everything or in some cases an overload of bile.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
111. That is disturbing. The Beatles are a part of history
...and I agree, it seems anti-progressive to 'not like' the Beatles.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. K & R
:thumbsup:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. Thanks!
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Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. I left the So. Baptist church I was forced to attend the night the preacher
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 01:22 PM by Pathwalker
called the Beatles "Sons of Satan" and told the parents to go home and destroy all their children's Beatles albums. I ran home as fast as I could, grabbed my Beatles albums, and took them to a friends house for safekeeping. I have never returned to church, but have spent many an hour listening to the Beatles since that night.
I still love it when right wingers call me an Old Hippie.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
50. I can remember
my parents thinking John was a bit odd around 1968-69. I also remember the day after Lennon was murdered, my father calling me and saying that he couldn't understand why anyone would want to kill an artist who sang about peace. I reminded him of the death threats from when Lennon's infamous quote about Jesus and his "thick and ordinary" followers was printed in the US. I suppose that John and the others made some thick and ordinary folks uncomfortable. I always liked that.
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Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. Very nice peace

I think the heart of hippiedom was spirituality. I think there must have been something in the air at the time that especially brought it out. Having long hair in a farm area is really something, and you still have long hair too!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
51. Having long hair
makes me happy that I no longer do things like "haying." Bad enough to toss bales on a wagon and then up into a barn, but my father was really old school. We did the loose hay with a fork. No wonder I was in shape for boxing!
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Beringia Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #51
88. I know a little about farming
my grandfather and his son and his sons (my cousins) farm a big area in Illinois, rich land. My grandfather thought country life was the best way. I wonder how you came to like having long hair. Is it the Samson trait, or Native American or uniquely you? You don't have to answer, because I often ask untoward questions.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #88
106. Both my oldest brother
and I have worn our hair long since the 1960s. (He was a professional boxer.) I think the Beatles influenced us.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
58. No, it wasn't in the air.
It was in the sugar cubes.
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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
81. That too!
Those little cubes opened a lot of minds to new possibilities. It caused minds to think in new directions, to look at things from different angles.
I think the world is better off because of those little cubes o' suge. :hippie:
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #58
82. Hear! Hear!
:rofl:

-Hoot
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. Constant struggle is the state of being.
When conformity constrains struggle, the struggle is lost and our state of being.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
52. True words
well said. Thanks.
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm so glad you made this an OP
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 01:49 PM by Morning Dew
instead of posting in the other thread.

Good stuff, thanks!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
62. Thanks.
I think it is too long to lump onto someone else's thread. Plus, there were a couple of hostile exchanges on that thread that distracted from the solid OP.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
29. Jeez, H2O Man. You totally ignored the BORPPies.
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 02:35 PM by Jackpine Radical
The Burned-Out Rural Pothead Professionals.

Actually, I think this thread is amazing in its concisely elegant dissection of an era.

I will add that for some of us, it felt like a war back then. I came home from Vietnam to a campus (UW-Madison) that was covered with arms-bearing National Guardsmen. There was the smell of tear gas in the air, just like back in Basic--or when someone threw a gas grenade down a spiderhole. The Guardsmen were marching around with M-14 rifles and M-79 grenade launchers. I knew their weapons; I had been trained on all of them. I had used them in combat. The sights, the smells, the sounds of marching soldiers--all those stimuli were dreadfully familiar, and together they brought the smell of death bubbling up from my then-recent memories. And then of course there was 1970, when news of the National Guard shootings at Kent State and Jackson State put the antiwar movement into shock, and then Robert Fassnacht died in the incredibly huge blast at the Army Math Research Center in Madison.

Having fought and been shot in Vietnam, I was gassed and clubbed in Madison. The two experiences were eerily similar. Sadly, I was on the losing side in both of my wars. And that brings us to why I think some people so revile the hippies. We lost the struggle to change the world. We were naive babes, up against worldly powers whose magnitude and malignance we had never suspected. The Vietnam War came to a fizzling end, but the war against the proletariat intensified by several orders of magnitude. That war still goes on, and the hippies were among the first casualties.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. LoL.
:hi: Jackpine.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Hi Myrna--
Hey, I just spent the weekend in St Paul, but was at a workshop at St. Kate's & had no actual free time. One of these days maybe we can get together. Do the Cities DUers still meet?
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
54. Yeah - the excellent MN DU group gets together quite a bit.
We'd love to get together whenever you're in town. Just let us know in the MN forum. :hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #29
63. It was a strange time.
Young guys being sent to fight an ill-defined war sounds rather familiar today. But the other events and circumstances from that era were so different from today, that it is difficult for younger people to really understand it ....in the same way that our generation couldn't really identify well with WW1.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
80. Jackpine Radical, for someone who thinks he was on the losing side in two wars,
I think you turned out to be a winner. Where I think your conclusion about hippies winning or losing is incorrect is that most of us hippies weren't trying to change anything except how we could experience life. We succeeded at that in huge ways. Those of us who wanted to change the world and the politics definitely took our licks along the way. You're right that the war against the proletariat intensified by several orders of magnitude, and is ongoing, for sure.

There are a lot of us hippies who are now radicals, liberals, progressives, greens, independents, whatever, and we're still trying to change the system. I, for one, feel beat up and beat down, but not defeated.

I wasn't aware that you were a Vietnam vet. Thanks for your service. Sounds like we had similar experiences, except for the being shot part, thank Dog.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. Yo, Bertman.
Yeah, like you, in one way or another I've been trying to change the system for close to half a century now. Losing a war doesn't keep you from getting into the next one.

About the Vietnam service, here's something I wrote last Veterans day:

http://jackpineneedles.blogspot.com/2009/11/veterans-days-always-make-me-feel-weird.html
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #84
97. Nice Veterans' Day post at your link
My experience was a little different from yours. I was gung-ho but volunteered for the draft because that way I could get out earlier if i didn't like the military. I ended up as a baby-faced, 20-yr-old infantry plt. ldr. with the 101st until I got hit and spent 18 mos. in the hospital.

I turned against the war not in VN, but afterward, in the hospital, when I became angry that our government had decided to withdraw, but was still waging war and sending boys over to be maimed and killed. I was with the facial casualties, and the other half of our hospital floor was the amputees.

Despite all the tragedy of our war, it wasn't without positive side effects. Not things WORTH going to war for, by any means, but positive nonetheless. Medical treatment of traumatic injury advanced, as it does in every war, and even in the tragedy of psychological war trauma, a common characteristic of PTSD was an intolerance for injustice. And I'm convinced that Vietnam was the only reason we didn't send American boys to fight and kill and die in useless wars in Central America. We learned the lessons of Vietnam for a while--and then forgot them again.

For my money, the most realistic movie about our war was 'Platoon', and many of us found a special resonance in the epilogue:

"...those of us who DID make it have an obligation to build again. To teach to others what we know. And to try, with what's left of OUR lives, to find the GOODNESS and MEANING to this life."

Yeah, we've been beat up, and we have our baggage. But we're NOT defeated. I don't think "We lost the struggle to change the world." As you also observed, "That war still goes on...."

Love & Peace, Brother,
pinboy3niner


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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
30. Wonderful post! Um...er..I mean, Groovy, man!
After seeing the inter-generational warfare (and the generalizations about entire generations of tens of millions of people) in the other thread, I realized Pogo was right. And it's a wonder we ever get our act sufficiently together to fight ANY political battles.

Ah, but I get by with a little help from my friends... Thanks for being here. :toast:

Love & Peace,
pinboy3niner
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
64. That's still one
heck of a song. Maybe, we could get factions on DU to sing it in a splintered harmony?
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pinboy3niner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. "Splintered" describes my singing voice pretty well
But the consensus is that I don't HAVE a singing voice. I'm really not offended. Hey, Jude--all I need is love... :)
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
31. H2O Man - all of your OPs make me smile
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 02:08 PM by livetohike
Thank you once more :-). My brother loves to tell my nieces and nephew that "your Aunt was a hippie" and I think he says it with some derision since he is a right-wing nut these days. I correct him with his grammar - your Aunt is a hippie. Once a hippie, always a hippie :hippie:.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
65. Well, thank you!
I'm always glad when people read my rantings here! And more so when they enjoy reading what I have to say.

I hope that your brother's children help open his eyes.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. I rock a crewcut, and I recommend this post.
I confess, I feel deeply ambivalent about hippies. I have some of the stereotypical GenX resentment, but it's mixed in with a profound respect for my political elders, and a desire to hold on to the gains they have made, and expand on them however possible.

We surly middle-aged punk rockers, old-ass hippies, and hip-hop younglings need to come together, because one and one and one is three. Can you dig it, man? :hippie:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
36. In the new weird world of DU where over the last 90 days I have
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 02:49 PM by truedelphi
Had one response to my comment and the response was, "Well the police had every right to kill that mentally ill person who was acting up inside his own home - to deal with him effectively might have required all night, or "tons of paper work"

To another response the other day about how we belonged in Afghanistan becaue the men in the United States treat us women with so much equality (This poster had never seen the insides of a battered women's shelter, would be my guess,) it is refreshing to get OP's from one of the people I consider the core of DU.

Thank you greatly, H20 man. K & R.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. are those exact quotes?
You could be in sirius trouble if you paraphrase. :spank:



I thought you needed more replies and this was the best I could do.

Sorry :blush:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. Problem is, I am one of those
Types that enjoys a good spanking (if done in fun)

So a pleasant :toast: to you.
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Political_Junkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thank you, H20 Man.
DU's voice of reason does it again.
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
40. I completely understand.
Those things connect with my own experiences of that time.
But one part not given much attention is the adoption of Native American culture by many of the Hippies of the time....which did us all a favor and brought to light cultural and spiritual values that were about to be lost....perhaps sometime you can expound on that if you can.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Interesting.
I had thought about that topic, and have some interesting insights from extended family members about when young American kids began showing up on the Indian Territories across North America. It was an aspect of the 1960s that had great potential, and indeed reached a large part of its potential.

I'm glad that you brought it up. Considering it involves some of the material my sons cover in their upcoming book, it should be relatively easy for me to do an essay here.

Thanks!
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. When I first came to New Mexico
about 1992 I met an old hippie that is well known in these parts....came to Taos in the mid 60s and wound up on the Hopi reservation where he was adopted into the tribe....he was shown the prophesies stone and told the meanings of it.
I learned a lot from him.
It is believed by them that all 4 races will gather at the 4 corners before we emerge into the 5th world....and that is why they accepted an Anglo into their tribe.
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Mojeoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. New Mexico is magic and so are the Beatles.
When I first came to New Mexico in 1969 with the Hog Farm,......We heard so many stories,
but "The Land of Enchantment,"
is not just a slogan.


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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #47
75. Tibetan monks came and visited Hopi nation, do you remember that?
It was very very special time.

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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #75
107. Yes I was here then.
That was a very important time for the Native American community.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #107
134. well, I may have met you somewhere there then!
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Greybnk48 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
41. I just hung a Beatles poster in our spare room not an
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 03:29 PM by Greybnk48
hour ago. The blue poster commemorating the command Royal performance at the London Palladium, 1963. It's hung near my framed pic of Mohammed Ali standing over Sonny Liston. I'm filling the room with my heroes from days gone by...it makes me feel less helpless and more like "at least we fucking tried." Your post had the same feel.

edited to add: All my hippie friends in Wisconsin in the late 60's early 70's were farm kids, or kids from blue collar backgrounds, sons and daughters of merchants, etc.. The draft was brutal in those days with very few deferments. Lots of angry, scared kids.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
112. I gave my son
my "Frazier vs Ali 2" poster the other day. I'd owned it since watching that fight at ringside at MSG long ago. His room is filled with Ali posters, one bookshelf is full of autographed books on boxing, and his (small) gym is complete with numerous photos of him being introduced to the great champions of yesteryear.

Giving him the poster came about because we were getting ready to go hang out with Marvis, who was an outstanding amateur and professional heavyweight (though not at Smokin' Joe's level). It's funny how a poster can, at certain times, bring back such strong feelings from the past.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
43. K & R nt
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
113. Thanks.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
44. I am bookmarking this. I find it difficult to convey to my 21 & 23 year
old sons what the era was "like"... And they've grown up awash in the revisionism of the 80's and 90's. This thread will help.

Thank you Water Man.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #44
114. Good!
I hope it helps. Sometimes, when I tell my kids about those days, they find it hard to believe, with, "You are kidding me, right?" being a frequent response.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
45. In at 50,
and heartily kicking this back to where it belongs at the top of the page.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #45
115. Great photo!
Thanks.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
55. Did her walker get in your way much?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #55
116. Bad!
Very bad!

And much appreciated, as I like bad.
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
59. Love this quote

“Psycho-politicians are using the Beatles music to hypnotize American youth and prepare them for future submission to subversive control. (It is) a systematic plan geared to making a generation of American youth mentally ill and emotionally unstable.”
--Rev. David A. Noebel; Communism, Hypnotism, and the Beatles.


That'll be all.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #59
117. A premonition
of George W. Bush & Dick Cheney, no doubt.
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bigmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
60. Maybe everything is actually on track.
I distinctly remember thinking, back in the day, that the culture had been moved about as much as it could move before the reactionary reaction set in. And thinking consequently that what we really needed was to actually become the elders, and have our kids spark the thing up again, except that this time we'd be the embedded allies for them that we ourselves had been missing back then.

Mind you, by "the thing" I don't mean any slavish imitation, but taking up the broadly transformative task, with new techniques, that had been stymied in the 70s.

H2O man, have you ever read any Daniel Pinchbeck? His "Breaking Open The Head" is quite the clarion call.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #60
118. Right.
As Friend Rubin often told me, everything under the sun is exactly as it should be .... or it wouldn't be.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
61. WOW!
If you are not a professional writer, you should be. That is perhaps the best essay I have ever read here! I beg you to do a weekly essay for the DU, not unlike the now seemingly vanished "Nancy." We could all benefit from your ability to tie so many aspects of the subject matter together into an entertaining and insightful way.

Thank you....

-P

I will now go and practice my own writing skills.

-P
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #61
119. Well, thank you.
I'm a retired psychiatric social worker, with enough time on my hands that I enjoy both reading and writing. Over the years, I've had a number of things published in magazines and a few books. But, as I told one of my best friends yesterday, being a "Water Man" requires that I not let the dollar influence anything I might (or might not) want to say. I understand that other writers need to pay their bills, but my writings from societies' margins is different.

A few years back, for example, another DUer was furious that I agreed with Will Pitt in a dispute the two were having. He attacked me, saying he could see I was primarily concerned with "which side was buttered." Though I felt bad -- in fact, he used a lot of my research from the Plame scandal that was posted on DU for his own money-making venture -- I was able to explain that I've never asked for or accepted a single penny for my contributions on the internet. I think that most DUers, while they might disagree with me on various topics, recognize that money is not an influence on whatever I happen to say.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #119
126. A Great Writer WITH Integrity
Well done, my friend.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
66. from a book by Peter Gabel
The Bank Teller

". . It was this feeling -- "the rise of a new generation of Americans" -- that more than any ideology threatened the system of cultural and erotic control that dominated the fifties and that still dominated the governmental elites of the early sixties -- the FBI, the CIA, even elements of Kennedy's own cabinet and staff. Kennedy's evocative power spoke to people's longing for some transcendent community and in so doing, it allowed people to make themselves vulnerable enough to experience both hope and, indirectly, the legacy of pain and isolation that had been essentially sealed from public awareness since the end of the New Deal. . "

love your work,
peace, kp
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #66
120. Great quote.
One of my favorite books, and one I quote from frequently on DU, is Fromm's classic, "The Sane Society." In it, he details how a culture -- like an individual -- can have symptoms and behaviors that show mental illness. Violence, crime, depression, suicide and substance abuse rates are among the indicators. America, from the end of WW2 to JFK, was a sick society. The rebellion of America's youth was a sign of mental health.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #120
123. we have been in mourning for too long..
wearing black and licking ourselves out of self-pity,
we need to put the flowers back in our hair and learn to dance again.

peace to you H20 Man
kp
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #123
124. Flowers in our hair, yes!!!
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
68. I don't know which post prompted this, but
having just watched No Impact Man, I recognize so much of his choices in the context of my friends and my choices. I like to comment that I wear "urban camouflage" but my innards are all hippie. And there are many of us, in my generation and the younger generations. I think the thing that made the hippies so prevalent in the sixties is that it became cool to be a hippie so the kids who didn't have their idea of what being a hippie really was but thought they were cool are the ones that moved on to be the yuppies when that was cool. The true hippies are hippies to this day. I frequent the farmers markets and the 60s hippie generation are there in spades. These days, there is no giant movement so the only hippies around are the ones truly committed to some form of societal protest. I have two friends who run what I jokingly call hippie flophouses but are actually communal homes with the revolving doors so familiar to the earlier hippies. Many of these fine people travel the US, eschewing the necktie and the bra for rainbow gatherings. I don't suppose that's world changing but at least they keep the tie dye going for the next generation to observe and possible emulate. And so it goes.....
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #68
122. My comments on
neck ties were in spite of the fact that frequently, in times where I was engaged in public issues, I wore the dreaded suit & tie! If I was going to court, for example, I would not have been as successful if I dressed like Abbie Hoffman at the Chicago trial. If it were a public forum, where tv cameras and people who didn't really know me were "watching," and I had to debate a government official and/or attorney, the suit & tie helped. I always fought the urge to wear two neck ties at once, in an attempt to look twice as formal as my opponent!
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
69. Thank you very much for this lovely OP, much appreciated by this old hippie.
I have to say, my strongest reaction to what you wrote was a feeling of relief. I didn't bother reading that other thread about hippies yesterday. Having participated in other DU threads on the subject over the years here, I considered it not worth the trouble.

I figured I could pretty much predict that it would be filled with generational resentments, derision, accusations of excess, ineffectiveness, irrelevance, failure, bad faith, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm not interested in defending myself against that stuff anymore. My life is my defense. I've lived it by all the ideals and principles of freedom and creativity and love and peace and questioning authority that filled the hearts and minds of those of us who participated in the zeitgeist of those few amazing years.

I regret nothing.

Thank you again,
sw
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Regret, hell, we need to be repeating it!
:evilgrin:

Personally, I'm thinkin' Teach-Ins......:hi:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Teach-ins! Excellent idea!
:hi:
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. I thought so, but ...... I seem to be in a distinct minority.
So, the stubborn German in me has surfaced, and I am plugging away at this, and making some progress.

I'm working on putting an integrated group together.... some exciting stuff.

Interested?
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #69
86. It certainly figures that you & I would be hanging out on this thread.
Non, Je ne regrets rien.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Of course.
:) -- or should it be :hippie:

Hope you and yours are well and happy,

:hug:
sw
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
72. And if we have to struggle, it might as well be the one of our choosing.
I have two sons (if this were a real story, it would be three, but no). One of them is up to his eyeballs in failing mortgages and in trying to conform. The other one is a prisoner of the state for selling marijuana although he'll be out soon and most likely, return to the hiphop culture that he thrives in. The power struggles of our youth play out even in the generations. It's remarkable.



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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
73. Beatles changed me forever.
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 09:05 PM by kgnu_fan
I found this video on Youtube.

Can't stop Rock n roll
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5M9v0nrl0c&feature=related

Artist seems/sounds like in his early 20's in Japan. You can tell, the impact is the same as 40 years ago
....

Last night, I just found Beatles, I just found Sex Pistols, It is called Rock n Roll, but I don't understand what it is, duda, duda, duda, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Today, I heard Beatles again on my way from school, I heard Sex Pistols again, Something happened and I cannot stop the Rock n Roll in my head! duda, duda, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now, I can still hear the song far and near and right here in my head. I can not forget the song.

Please see me now, just like then. The shocking moment, forever, forever, forever.

Please give me more, more, more. I want to shout to you, now, now, now.

You are far away, but I am near you. I am shouting to you right now.

You say the music now-a-day is shit. It is like any other time. That is why I am singing to you, immediately, immediately, that is why I am shouting to you. So, Even you do not understand this music, I am singing to you.

Rock n Roll never stop
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
77. Thank you for that Long Cool Drink of Water, H20 Man.
This old hippie is proud to say that his youngest stepdaughter is following in the well-worn footsteps of her hippie mom and stepdad. And we love it.


:hippie:



And for those who don't know, the Organic Foods movement is a direct descendant of all of those hippie folks who decided they didn't want to eat contaminated food so they started their communes and co-ops and organic farms waaaay back in the 60's and 70's. The legacy lives on.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
78. my son is a hippie. i couldn't be more proud.
he leaves tomorrow for a 3 month buddhist mediation. since he was a little boy, i was sure he was a genetic warrior. but instead he wants to be a monk. of all the things this old hippie has ever done, this boy is maybe the best.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
79. Marvis & Hippies
Yesterday, two of my children (one daughter and one son) had breakfast with our friend Marvis. I was doing an interview for another web site I write for -- a boxing/MMA site. Marvis, like myself, had lots of amateur fights; unlike myself, he fought professionally at a level that included a heavyweight title shot. My son later said that the surroundings were a bit surreal, as we were in a rural setting ....an old barn converted into a country store & diner, among about 50 "old" hippies. The store sells home-made candles, trees, flowers, crafts, fresh veggies and outrageous strawberries and blueberries. And we were at a table in the middle of this, with Smokin' Joe's son.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
85. Outstanding !
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Voice for Peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
90. I tried to shake the hippie label for a long time to no avail.
Even if I dressed like non-hippies people still identified me as a hippie and it was frustrating. Finally I asked a friend, why do people still call me a hippie? no matter how I live or dress, and he said "it's because you still believe in Love."
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Be the best hippie you can be!!!!!
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Political_Junkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #90
130. Thanks.
I always wondered why I got the same thing. Dressed punk/heavy metal and called a hippy? What gives?
I can live with that answer. :hi:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
92. Jerry Rubin would agree....
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 10:36 PM by BrklynLiberal
lol

It was truly a very distinguished group....

The Chicago Seven (also Conspiracy Seven, originally Eight) were seven defendants—Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, David Dellinger, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, John Froines, and Lee Weiner—charged with conspiracy, inciting to riot, and other charges related to protests that took place in Chicago, Illinois on the occasion of the 1968 Democratic National Convention. Bobby Seale, the eighth man charged, had his trial severed during the proceedings, lowering the number from eight to seven.
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
93. Finally, a normal thread on DU
Thanks...
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #93
128. Yes, I knew from the title that it would be a normal DU thread. (NT)
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #128
132. Well, point taken, but I was speaking of the discourse-- intelligent and snarkless
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
95. Thanks H2O Man. Been thinkin it feels like going into the 60s here at DU of late
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 11:17 PM by havocmom
The turbulence here is sort of like a mini version of factions fighting back then. As I read DU lately, I hear the songs from HAIR! in my mind. Lyrics, poetry the masses could sing and groove to. Anyone not familiar with that particular play can do a lyrics search at sites like http://www.lyricsondemand.com/soundtracks/h/hairlyrics/.

The songs from HAIR!, not unlike the Beatles, painted a large mural of the factions and frustrations of that time. And I feel those times are upon us again. Some are fighting for full rights, and some are fighting against granting them, both sides represented here, sadly. There are so many living hand to mouth without prospects, and forced into the streets again, living in the margins and far outside of what most Americans like to believe is America. And sometimes people in peril are being treated rather badly right here. Seems some take any suggestion that things do need to really change as some sort of un-American (un-democratic, racist) agenda. It's happening too often.

Songs from HAIR! really kick in for me lately, as I read the news and feel for so many people, and as I read DU and wonder how the devil some can be so narrow minded as to insist anyone with a different label is somehow wrong, how some can so harshly demean and denigrate others, when we are all supposedly on the same team. Been called a Jew and an anti-semite both, right here on DU. Been called naive and cynical. Been called a raving liberal and a freeper, a racist by some who will not admit it is perfectly legitimate to have an opinion that clashes with our President, and a misogynist when I didn't to give my undying loyalty to Hillary in the Primaries. Been called un-American by some on the left, the right, the rich. Labels are fluid things. Your mileage may vary.



Don't Put It Down (Lyrics)


Om mane padme om
On mane padme om
Folding the flag means taking care of the nation.
Folding the flag is putting it to bed for the night.
I fell through a hole in the flag
I'm falling through a hole in the flag
Help!

Don't put it down
Best one around
Crazy for the red blue and white
Crazy for the red blue and white

You look at me
What do you see
Crazy for the white red and blue
Crazy for the white red and blue

Cause I look different
You think I'm subversive
Crazy for the blue white and red
Crazy for the blue white and red

My heart beats true
For the red white and blue
Crazy for the blue white and red
Crazy for the blue white and red
And yellow fringe
Crazy for the blue white red and yellow



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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
96. Well I am glad I wandered in here
I was having a major freak-out on reading some of the other threads.

Flower power all the way, man, and thanks for your post.
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Aaria Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
98. Beauti-ah
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
99. Great post, what we need are more hippies.
Go raibh maith agat!

:kick: and rec'd
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
100. Very nice work (actually astoundingly great)
My humble applause.

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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
101. that was cool
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
102. We have to be smarter than they are this time, or there won't be a next time.
They know that we're pissed off, but they don't seem too damn concerned about it.
I have no idea how someone like Senator Snowe sleeps at night after acting like a Tea Party committee member of the "Party of No", but since she is a Republican, there is no way to reach her.
She is not willing to even listen to us, we are beyond her level of comprehension.
So it's a waste of time to try and convince someone like her that we are right.

But, Senators like Lincoln should be within reach.
So, when they pull away from us and act like they don't need us, then we should treat them like we don't need them.
I've had it with the excuses and the boolshit reasons they give for arguing against "the liberal agenda" that we voted them into office to carry out.
What the hell is a Democrat today? A liberal, or a less cranky Reagan Republican?
Not to my mind.
Just look at Senator Byrd to see how someone on our side of the aisle can be changed and brought into the agenda-making "movers and shakers" club and wind up being a leader among men and mice.

We can't survive as a party imitating the Republicans, just because they were in the majority for a dozen years in the House.
That's not what we are about.
That's not who we are.

Arguing with supporters of Republicans is a HUGH waste of time.
And I am no moran.
I'm just not going to give up another 5 minutes of my time arguing with someone who thinks that Bush Junior was great, Bush Senior was even greater, and Ronnie Raygun was a GOP Gawd!
What crap!!!
They bankrupt this country twice in 30 years!
The Saving and Loans scandal of the 80's was the same swindle that the latest banking crisis was. They just used different walnut shells to hide the pea under to play their game of 3-card monty on the people of this country.

So, if Democratic Senators don't want to be liberal, let them be as conservative as they want to be - but make damned sure they run as Republicans, not as Democrats!
Oh, sure our party tent is big enough for a lot of different viewpoints, but even in the circus all of the clowns come in just one fucking teeny-tiny car!!

Get the assclowns out of the party!
Or in a few years, there won't be a party worth working for.
I don't want to see any more Kabuki theater either.
No more lameass "beer summits".
Get serious or get out.


We are all in this thing together, we are fighting for our very lives. So, even though half of the country is braindead and thinks that Hussein worked with Al Queda to attack us, we have to save them, too.
By going LEFT.

Because they are the ones that are drowning, and they will drag us down with them if we don't take over control of the ship of this nation and redirect it back on course.
Go to port!
Get liberal now!
Get as liberal as you can get!
Give me liberty, or give me a new Democratic party!!

We have one chance to end the war in Afghanistan - this November.
That's it.
Because if they don't end the war next year, they won't end it for 10 more years.

I'm not going to keep sending the same people back to Washington year after year to end these never-ending wars even if they have a damned "D" behind their name on the ballot.
This year is it!
I may get in trouble for saying that, but it's the truth.
They want to continue the war in Afghanistan for at least another 10 years, they don't intend to leave soon.
But, we have to or else we are going to go broke fighting a war across the ocean.

10 years is enough already.
And next year, in 2011, we will have been there for 10 years.
We don't want another Vietnam!

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
103. FAR OUT! K/R
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MagickMuffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 02:45 AM
Response to Original message
105. Great OP H2O Man, nice to drink from the Springs of Eternal Youth ;=}
That other thread had my head spinning from what some people were posting. YIKES!

I'm glad you added your 2¢ worth, in its own thread. It definitely was worth the read.



If you want to change the way people respond to you, change the way you respond to people.

"Changing My Mind, Among Others" Timothy Leary (1982)


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Sciguy Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
108. I **WAS** a hippie. I ***AM*** a hippie. Just older.
Yep - I'm no more than an old hippie. In no particular order:

1. I'm still against war, though now it's in Afghanistan and Iraq instead of the Nam.
2. I still think Make Love, Not War is a damn good idea, and I still don't care who schtupps whom.
3. Sex 'n' drugs 'n' rock'n'roll are fine with me - and I still think using drugs is a personal choice, just like playing whatever music you like to listen to.

There's more to it than that, of course. I'm a Progressive (nee Democrat), and I still think people have the right to health care. I don't worship Mammon. Etc., etc.

I'm older now, though. Some things have changed. I have to wear orthotics, so I can't go barefoot no mo'. I'm pro-gun (in limited circumstances) because I live on a farm now and need to kill chicken-eating vermin on occasion. I personally don't drink or use illegal drugs any more (but please - help yourselves to them!).

Other than that? Still a hippie. Always was. Always will be.

Groovy.
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
109. As a gen-Xer ( I think) still trying to find my identity.....
I really enjoyed that - thank you.

My generation has been so disengaged, I sometimes wish we were more like the "hippies"..
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
110. I like this piece
I would be OK if my kids put a little of the "struggle" back into progressive politics.
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cachukis Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
121. The population in the US was not so liberal in the 60's
Edited on Tue Jul-13-10 08:50 AM by cachukis
This is just a snapshot from a 2008 article. Remember, academia has always had a more liberal mindset.

The ’60s Begin to Fade as Liberal Professors Retire
By PATRICIA COHEN
Published: July 3, 2008

snip

In general, information on professors’ political and ideological leanings tends to be scarce. But a new study of the social and political views of American professors by Neil Gross at the University of British Columbia and Solon Simmons at George Mason University found that the notion of a generational divide is more than a glancing impression. “Self-described liberals are most common within the ranks of those professors aged 50-64, who were teenagers or young adults in the 1960s,” they wrote, making up just under 50 percent. At the same time, the youngest group, ages 26 to 35, contains the highest percentage of moderates, some 60 percent, and the lowest percentage of liberals, just under a third.

When it comes to those who consider themselves “liberal activists,” 17.2 percent of the 50-64 age group take up the banner compared with only 1.3 percent of professors 35 and younger.

“These findings with regard to age provide further support for the idea that, in recent years, the trend has been toward increasing moderatism,” the study says.

The authors are not talking about a political realignment. Democrats continue to overwhelmingly outnumber Republicans among faculty, young and old. But as educators have noted, the generation coming up appears less interested in ideological confrontations, summoning Barack Obama’s statement about the elections of 2000 and 2004: “I sometimes felt as if I were watching the psychodrama of the Baby Boom generation — a tale rooted in old grudges and revenge plots hatched on a handful of college campuses long ago — played out on the national stage.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/arts/03camp.html

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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
125. Some were swallowed up.
Fall mountains, just don't fall on me /
Go ahead on Mr. Business man, you can't dress like me. /
Sing on Brother, play on drummer.
-Jimi, If 6 was 9
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vanbean Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
127. Great post, H20 man. It is funny but just the other day one of the younger
engineers here was telling a story about a friend's of his parents. He said, "They were hippies, but don't get me wrong they were actually good people." This led to quite a long conversation in which I schooled him about how things really were in the 60's and 70's. I did, I think, alter his impression, which was that hippies were just dirty bums looking for a free ride.

I can remember when my dad didn't believe that the Beatles wrote "Hey Jude", he said that some real musician must have written it for them. He later learned the truth, and acknowledged they were great musicians.

I wish we had more hippies now. They (we) didn't take shit.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
129. I need to modify my opinion that the US and UK establishments are beyond satire, H20 Man.
Edited on Tue Jul-13-10 05:23 PM by Joe Chi Minh
You certainly came close to it. That dry bitter sense of humour my uncle had - so he'd be annoyed if you laughed at a joke he made!
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-13-10 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
131. I have known many hippies in suit and they know how to "stalk and dream" in this world of illusion
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Shireling Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-10 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
133. Thanks so much for this post.
It is sad that so many stereotypes about Hippies are being taken as the truth. I guess people cannot understand the time if they weren't there.

:hippie:
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