In the heat wave, the case against air conditioning

[cali]

By Stan Cox
Sunday, July 11, 2010; B03

Washington didn't grind to a sweaty halt last week under triple-digit temperatures. People didn't even slow down. Instead, the three-day, 100-plus-degree, record-shattering heat wave prompted Washingtonians to crank up their favorite humidity-reducing, electricity-bill-busting, fluorocarbon-filled appliance: the air conditioner.

This isn't smart. In a country that's among the world's highest greenhouse-gas emitters, air conditioning is one of the worst power-guzzlers. The energy required to air-condition American homes and retail spaces has doubled since the early 1990s. Turning buildings into refrigerators burns fossil fuels, which emits greenhouse gases, which raises global temperatures, which creates a need for -- you guessed it -- more air-conditioning.

A.C.'s obvious public-health benefits during severe heat waves do not justify its lavish use in everyday life for months on end. Less than half a century ago, America thrived with only the spottiest use of air conditioning. It could again. While central air will always be needed in facilities such as hospitals, archives and cooling centers for those who are vulnerable to heat, what would an otherwise A.C.-free Washington look like?

<snip>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/09/AR2010070902341_pf.html

[Crystal Clarity]

1. It think urging Americans to use less/get rid of their AC

will probably be a hard thing to do.

I'm fortunate to live in a geographic area with a relatively cool summer. A couple of window fans kept me comfortable even during this past heat wave. But if I lived further south, particularly in a hot AND humid area, I bet I'd have a hard time giving AC up.

We need to continue to work toward more renewable energy sources.

[TommyO]

2. Fine, you sweat to death in a 110 degree hell hole

I'll turn on the air conditioner, thank you.

[cali]

4. lol. so many duers are so predictable

rage against drilling and big oil but refuse to modify their lives in any meaningful way.

[KatyMan]

12. You should come to Houston

Right now the temp is a mere 84 degrees, but with 81% humidity it feels like 95. And it's only 10:30 in the morning. No AC in this climate is impractical and unsafe. People die in the summer from heat.

[area51]

24. +1

I love it when idiots preach to southerners how we should live; they've probably never lived in the south with the oppressive heat and humidity.

From the OP:

"Less than half a century ago, America thrived with only the spottiest use of air conditioning. It could again."

Yeah, theoretically, it could. Also, southerners would no doubt start dying at younger ages due to the heat, and there would be more cases of food poisoning from food going bad much quicker in the heat.

[Ishoutandscream2]

25. That's the wet dream for some of our southerner haters here

No doubt some here would be thrilled with many of us dying off.

[WolverineDG]

125. Think of how much energy we could save if

northerners wouldn't heat their homes in any way, shape, or form during winter? Think of the trees saved from being chopped up for firewood, the coal that wouldn't have to be used or mined, the natural gas & electricity that gets wasted by lazy lie-abouts who'd rather have the heater on instead of putting on another sweater.

dg

[donco6]

152. Heh! That's good.

Yeah, why is it all about AC? That pesky central heating is a REAL problem.

[hedgehog]

138. Umm, I keep my perishable food items in this appliance called

a "refrigerator" in place of cooling my entire house, but then that's just me. .

[SoxFan]

148. Less than half a century ago

We had computers...


And cell phones...


Cutting-edge public transportation...


And fresh-scrubbed young pop stars!

[Gormy Cuss]

56. How DID people live in Houston before A/C? Answer: they managed.

They wore summer weight clothing made from seersucker, linen, or lawn fabric,used fans and swamp coolers, scheduled work and activities for the cooler parts of the day, and generally just slowed down.

Note that the article in the OP doesn't suggest getting rid of A/C, just rethinking how much it is used. There's nothing unsafe about cooling rooms to 78 degrees rather than 72 for example, or designing new buildings to take advantage of natural cooling -- operable windows in commercial buildings and air circulation systems that pull cooler evening air in from the outside, shade canopies, energy efficient glass on the facades, trees and other landscaping in parking lots and along paved areas to reduce the heat absorption. As long as A/C is the cheaper and easier solution there just isn't enough incentive to change the behavior.

When CA was held hostage by Enron summer energy conservation became the norm. As soon as the crisis was over the A/C units were fired up again.

[Statistical]

68. Not all of them managed. Heat related deaths wer e much higher in the past.

I guess you could say the "managed" by dying. Hey that might be how they "save" Social security. :(

[laughingliberal]

101. Yep! nt

[Gormy Cuss]

103. Yes, but the vast majority of people managed.

Again, note that the article isn't saying that we should do away with A/C altogether.

[Statistical]

106. YAY. The majority managed.

Hell the majority of people managed to survive without Social Security too. They just tended to die younger, and impoverished.

They "managed". Sorry it isn't necessary for us to give up air conditioning or limit it only to those that need it.

As I discuss down thread we could air condition the same amount of space with half the energy by simply mandating higher efficiency units.

[Gormy Cuss]

107. And you're arguing with me about this for what reason?

The point of noting that the majority managed is that the automatic knee-jerk response from far too many people is that people can't possibly live in (insert name of hot city/state) without A/C when the simple truth is that if one is young and healthy that's just not true. Sure, it would be less comfortable and would require some lifestyle adjustments, but to say that people can't do it shuts down the discussion.

We could air conditioning the same amount of space on a lot less energy by simply turning up the thermostat. That's a no-cost and quick step in the right direction.

[backwoodsbob]

136. and people in the north could survive with much less heating

you pampered northerners CAN survive with you thermestats turned to 50...just put on a sweater.

HOW did people survive the cold without central heat?

[Gormy Cuss]

141. Why as a matter of fact, yes!.

People can and do survive without central heat even in this country, even in the north. People survive with thermostats set to 60 --which is the equivalent of setting the A/C thermostat to 78. Plenty of people for economic reasons keep indoor temps in winter below 60 and summer temperatures over 80.

A few people can't live like that because of medical issues but the bigger issue is that very few people want to live like that.

[backscatter712]

71. There's a reason why cultures in hot climates have the siesta.

They have damned good reason to stop work and rest during the hottest part of the day - it keeps them from getting heat stroke.

There's one adjustment to be made: When it's insanely hot out, if you're not into AC, just get into some shade, get yourself something cold to drink, and take a siesta.

[MajorChode]

74. They also died from heat related illnesses

And I dare you to move to Houston and try cooling your home with a swamp cooler. People "managed" because they had no choice.

[Gormy Cuss]

105. Yes, a few did. Most managed just fine.

Fewer lived in climates like Houston and Houston itself was cooler without the heat sink effects of modern cities.

The majority of people in Houston TODAY could live just fine with far less A/C than they use today and that's the point of the article in the OP.

[MajorChode]

122. People also "managed" to shit outside in sub-zero temps

They used heavy spices to cover up the taste of spoiled food prior to refrigeration. They read by candlelight and went to bed early. They walked to school uphill both ways. They "managed" to do a lot of things people today aren't going to do. People in Houston figured out a long time ago you don't set your thermostat to 72. Even at 78, $400+ electric bills are quite common, even in well insulated homes which is a pretty strong incentive all in itself. Quite a few people can't afford to keep their thermostat at 78.

And no, the article suggests a life without A/C. That was the point. It's also a pretty easy suggestion to make when you have a one month period where heat indexes might top 100 and they might not for the entire year. It's not so easy when you get 3 months out of the year when heat indexes will top 100 practically every day. That's why people in the south find the article more than a bit absurd.

[datasuspect]

156. how did people live in Houston before A/C? attic fans and lots of windows

before the modern interstate system, i imagine there wasn't as much concrete and development to trap heat.

but you'd have to go back to the late 40s i suppose.

i recall talking to some oldtimers who grew up before WW2 in houston/beaumont.

they would mention that it didn't SEEM as hot then, and nobody except movie theaters and rich people had A/C back then. they had old houses with lots of windows (cross ventilation) and big attic fans.

in fact, get far enough away from houston, and it actually does seem a TAD cooler (especially the farther away you get from human development).

actually, you really do get used to the heat and the sweat. you just have to go outside more.

[Deep13]

67. Yeah, and they freeze to death in the North.

Guess Houston was the wrong place to build a city then. Of course the human body acclimates to the heat if allowed to do so--that is when it is not refrigerated all day.

[ljm2002]

86. re: "Yeah, and they freeze to death in the North."

But see, no one is suggesting that those in the North should just somehow "manage" without heating systems in the cold months.

Mind you: we can be much more sensible about how we power our A/C and how much we use it. I have mine set to 80, which can get a bit hot but beats the 105+ outside right now. I also open the doors and windows in the evenings and early mornings, to let some fresh and cooler air in rather than running the A/C at those times. And I mostly leave it off at night.

But this week I will leave windows and doors closed in the evenings and mornings, and will leave the A/C running all night too. Why? We are looking at record temperatures this week with official temperatures slated to reach 112 for a couple of days later in the week - and local temperatures can be even higher than the official temperature. We broke a record this morning, with a low temperature of 88 degrees. Not much cooling to be had there!

[Deep13]

90. We should turn the heat down to 65F and block off unused rooms.

Unfortunately, the office is a sauna and I never have a chance to adjust to winter temperatures. I grew up sleeping in long underwear and wearing sweaters in the house. Now I have to do that with the heat turned up or else get barbecued in the dry, overly heated office.

[Odin2005]

153. Heh, I like it cold and people bitch because I keep turning down the heat in winter.

Put on a sweater, you wimps.

The problem with heat and humidity is that you cant keep taking off clothes. As long as it's very dry we humans can manage fairly well as long as we get enough water, we evolved in the semi-arid tropics, but a humid heat can be lethal, our way of keeping cool is by the evaporation of sweat, high humidity discourages evaporation.

[KatyMan]

88. I'd say we're pretty acclimated to the heat down here

and I daresay what a person in Vermont or Ohio would consider a hot day is a lot different than what we would.
Most people don't keep their houses at 72 all day. Ours is on 80 during the day. At night, we lower it. We also make use of fans and ceiling fans to keep costs down. Most people here are pretty savvy about cutting down on AC because it can lead to very high electric bills. I know that doesn't fit the DU Texans Are Redneck Idiots stereotype, but I guess nothing can change that.

[Odin2005]

155. LOL, I bet you guys must think us folks here in Fargo are crazy!

I am always amused when I see people from subtropical parts of the country putting on a winter jacket when it's 50F out, I don't take out the Winter Jacket unless the temp is under 20F. I'm in T-shits and shorts when it's in the 60s.

[Odin2005]

151. Telling folks down south not to use AC is like telling us Fargoans to not use Heat.

I certainly couldn't live down there without AC, It's more the humidity than the head, here in Fargo I feel sick if it's humid and the temp is above 75.

[Ishoutandscream2]

18. And your holier than thou attitude is tiresome

Yes, try living somewhere where the temperatures with heat index consistently hits over 100.

[stray cat]

22. So either you do not rage against drilling or you don't use gas or electricity

or anything transported using gas? Good for you!

[MajorChode]

60. I guess it's easy to be righteously indignant when it rarely gets above 80

That's quite the sacrifice you are making.
http://www.vtliving.com/weather/temperatures.shtml

You do realize that less than 10% of electricity comes from "big oil"? Funny how you didn't mention burning home heating oil in the winter, which actually does come from "big oil".

Cheers!

[TommyO]

84. Speak for yourself cali

I've changed quite a bit about my life, we are generally sparing of the AC, but when it's over ninety degrees outside, over 100 inside and humid enough to drown, you make some concessions.

[zipplewrath]

97. Modifying is not necessarily "doing without"

Anywhere south of the Mason Dixon, suggesting that people do without AC is absurd. Much of the south wouldn't even have their current populations without AC. The article touched on, without comment, some of the things that COULD be done without abandoning AC altogether. We can "modify" our lives in meaningful ways that don't have to be that drastic. I'm always struck by folks that set the thermostat at 72 in the summer, and 78 in the winter. Too many office buildings (and malls) set the temperature way too low. Employees, especially laborers, tend to drive these things and leave customers and visitors very cold. And there is some absurdity in the reality that in office buildings, the equipment alone demands a fair amount of AC. Equipment cooling should be considered on a building level, not just on the component level. It is absurd that my kitchen refrigerator dumps the heat into the kitchen, so that the AC can then pump it outside the house. Why isn't here a "vent" in the wall that can dump that heat outside the air conditioned space?

[tabbycat31]

100. I worked somewhere where one employee would set it at 62

she was an obese menopausal woman---her answer to people getting cold was "put meat on your bones" (ie gain weight and be morbidly obese like she is).

She was the most senior person there who got away with stealing from the company to gamble. And she still has a job.

[emilyg]

50. So will I.

[XemaSab]

112. It's only going to be 105 here the rest of the week

Does Redding still qualify as a hell hole? :P

[TommyO]

123. I was referring to the inside temperature as the hell hole

but if you want Redding to qualify, I'll take in into consideration.

:7

[Gormy Cuss]

128. But it's a dry heat.

:P

[XemaSab]

142. It's supposed to be 118 this weekend

Can I curl up in the bathtub and hide like Will Smith in "I Am Legend?" :scared:

[Gormy Cuss]

144. Ouch.

Turn up the A/C...oh wait!

[XemaSab]

159. We're already planning how not to cook all weekend

:o

[Bloofer_Lady]

3. I've lived in DC....

....and it's like a humid oven. I didn't have AC in my car and I nearly passed out a few times while driving.

[Urban Prairie]

5. I need AC now, did not have it until my first home purchase in my 30s

I was born with a malformed thyroid and am very susceptible to high temps, however I love cool to cold weather and kept our thermostat low in the fall, winter and spring, to the dismay of my wife, who cranked it up when I was not home. (we have since lost our home, to foreclosure)

My neighbors across the street, when I lived in the city during the 60s-70s, lived in the basement of their home year-round to keep cool in the summer (no AC) and warm in the winter, their utility bills were low. Of course their house was spotless inside. I thought it was strange at the time, but when I started to work the graveyard shift, I began to sleep in our basement during the day, quiet and dark and cool.

Most of the jobs that I have held over the past 35 years, did NOT have AC in the buildings, due to either being very old and having no central air, or having AC was not feasable due to the nature of the work. Fans and more fans...yeah, that worked...heh!!!

[Gaedel]

47. The way to go.......

"My neighbors across the street, when I lived in the city during the 60s-70s, lived in the basement of their home year-round to keep cool in the summer (no AC) and warm in the winter, their utility bills were low. Of course their house was spotless inside. I thought it was strange at the time, but when I started to work the graveyard shift, I began to sleep in our basement during the day, quiet and dark and cool."

When I was a kid growing up in Detroit, there was no AC in any of the homes.

Most families "moved down" to the basement in July and August. They would install a stove and cook in the basement and have an old kitchen table dwon there to eat off of. After dinner, the kids would go to sleep on chaise lounges while the grownups listened to the radio, read, or sewed.

Around midnight, they would carry the kids up to bed and go to bed themselves with the aid of a fan (house had cooled off a bit by then).

[BonnieJW]

6. I will and have cut back on energy usage in many ways;

however, AC is one area that is non-negotiable. I even turn off my car engine at long stop lights. I use large appliances during off hours. I will not sit in a hot house.

[raccoon]

7. If air conditioning suddenly ceased to exist, I betcha there'd be a lot of people/businesses

moving back to the Rust Belt.

Having lived approximately my first 30 years without AC in SC, I can't say as I'd blame them.

[sufrommich]

79. The "rust belt" (god I hate that term) has hot, humid summers.

It was in the 90s and humid last week in the Detroit area.

[raccoon]

80. But it doesn't stay hot as long as southern states. nt

[miscsoc]

161. actually i wonder how much population movement towards the south has to do with cheap AC technology?

[Critters2]

183. Most of it. AC has made the move to the sunbelt possible. nt

[uncommon]

167. It's 90 degrees here in the nice cool Northeast today, and that's without accounting for the

humidity.

May not be Houston, but it's damn unpleasant.

[LibertyLover]

8. What would DC with air conditioning look like?

Well, since few office buildings have windows that open, there would be a heck of a lot of glass shards piled in the streets for one thing.

[JHB]

9. +1

The guy mentioned offices with opened windows. He obviously works in a place with a lot of old buildings.

Most office buildings built since the 70s are sealed up in the name of energy efficiency. Even when the have windows that open, they are inadequate to provide the sort of ventilation that would be needed without the central climate control running near-constantly.

Maybe that's his jobs program: refitting all the structures built over the last 40 years with "old school" windows.

[spinbaby]

28. Exactly

Much of today's architecture isn't survivable without AC. Office buildings used to be set up for cross ventilation. Houses used to have porches, awnings, and shade trees. I always cringe when I drive through the south and see a mobile home squatting in an empty field without so much as a tree to shade it--totally uninhabitable without air conditioning.

[slackmaster]

10. Air conditioning is a matter of survival for some people

It's not "lavish" to turn on the A/C when the temperature gets to triple digits and the humidity is high.

[Deep13]

34. Obviously, the article is not directed at the few who need it to survive. nt

[slackmaster]

113. It's directed at all the Imelda Marcos clones in DC, who crank down the heat and wear heavy furs

Right.

[pitohui]

132. the population over age 60 is not "the few"

i realize that a lot of people are in denial abt physical reality, but just as your ability to read close at hand WILL be curtailed as you get over age 50, once you get over age 60, you cannot withstand
heat extremes

once you've had one instance of heatstroke/heat exhaustion, you are vulnerable FOREVER

we have an aging population, being older is not some rare or unusual condition suffered only by the few, it will likely even happen to YOU one day

[miscsoc]

160. They are relatively few, or at any rate a minority

The old or infirm, I mean. I doubt that the doubling in energy consumption in AC since the early 90s mostly has to do with that, however.

[Dreamer Tatum]

11. There was plenty of power for AC until the internet came around nt

[SoCalDem]

13. What it would look like?

It would look like it did before AC..people sweating & slowing down their pace.

The main reason behind the "August recess" tradition goes back to that era.

People used to deal with the lack of AC, by wearing lightweight clothing, and just going to a cooler place if they could afford it, or if they could not, using fans or postponing the hard work for after dark.

The advent of affordable AC is largely responsible for the loss of manufacturing in the "rust-belt" states. Before AC, they just accepted the fact that productivity would probably slip during the humid summertime, but once AC came to the really humid south, they preferred to ditch the union labor and the cost to install AC, when they could move south and have AC, cheap land (lovingly prepped for them by eager governors & mayors) and super-cheap labor.

[Urban Prairie]

31. Plus the railroads adding sidetracks to those southern manufacturing facilities

CSX helped kill the rust belt after it purchased Conrail, moved its locomotive and railcar repair facilities south, built/repaired tracks to and from the SE US and largely abandoned its northernmost operations.

What a shame that at one time, there was more than enough railroad right of way in the US to create high speed passenger rail across and all over the country, but no, we built interstate highways instead, many in the north that now have decaying, rusting overpasses and bridges from over-salting in the winter and crumbling, pothole-patched pavement, and last but obviously not least, nearly complete dependence on oil and its derivatives.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Statistical]

15. No AC isn't the issue, better AC is.

Most residential AC systems are 7-12 years old for large buildings are even older (large AC units tend to be repaired over the course of decades rather than being replaced).

The efficiency of older AC units can be a SEER of 9 or less. SEER is simply a measure of efficiency. A SEER of 9 means the unit convers 1 kwh into 9,000 BTU of heat transfer. A SEER of 20 would convert the same 1 kwh into 20,000 BTU of heat transfer. Today US law requires all new units to be at least SEER of 13.

However IMHO this doesn't go far enough. A 15 SEER unit is about 16% more efficient than federal minimum 13 SEER unit (and roughly 60% more efficient than a decade old SEER 8 or 9 unit). SEER 15 units are only couple hundred more. When you consider the installation cost, and length of time a unit will last (usually 10-20 years) the difference in price on a per month basis is minimal.

Even better is a SEER 16 or 18 unit which are significantly more expensive ($600 to $1000 per unit) however depending on how much the AC is used (in terms of BTU per year) that can be offset in about 4-5 years through reduced energy costs.

I would propose something like a variable minimum standard.

SEER 15 is absolute minimum anywhere in US.
SEER 16 requires for moderate areas (based on number of annual cooling days)
SEER 18 required in the hottest areas (based on number of annual cooling days)

30% federal tax credit for SEER 16 units, 50% federal tax credit for SEER 18 units.

Literally we could provide the same amount of cooling (AC) for half the energy use or less. Also government should put some big R&D into improving SEER (efficiency) of newer AC units. The theoretical (carnot) limit is very high even under the most adverse conditions. For example cooling a house to 76 degrees when outside temp is 120 degrees is possible with an EER of >40. Less serve conditions can have much much higher efficiency (EER of 83 at 76 inside, 98 outside). Imagine if in 10 years we had cost effective SEER 24 units (another 25% drop in energy compared to today's top of the line models, and 50% less energy than today's minimum efficient units).

[Liberal In Texas]

41. I have a 16.5 SEER unit and the elec. bills are

well under $200 even in the hottest weather here. And Texas gets hot.

The master plan is to install solar panels on the roof and lower our elec. usage off the grid even more. If we had a program to aggressively place solar panels on houses and businesses we'd go a long way in reducing fossil fuel usage without a cutback in things like AC.

[Statistical]

43. Yup short term high SEER AC + solar panels is a winner.

Longer term geothermal heat pumps + solar panels is even better (heating and cooling). For areas where heat pump can't handle 100% of the load they make combination geothermal heat pumps with supplemental natural gas. Emissions free cooling, and 90% reduction in emissions for heating.

The tehcnology exists we simply subsidize fossil fuels and thus it remains marginalized and expensive. Hopefully someday though.

[NNN0LHI]

51. How much actual energy savings are there from a SEER 15 compared to a SEER 18?

Say my bill for cooling was an even hundred dollars with a SEER 15, how much less would that bill actually be in dollars with a SEER 18?

Thanks if you know.

Don

[Statistical]

54. $17. give or take.

Remember SEER is an average so depending on your inside temp, your outside temp, humidity, etc it will vary. Still the *average* numbers are directly related.

$100 * 15 / 18 = $83.33

Another way to look at it is in energy terms. Say your electricity is $0.10 per kWh. $100 = 1000 kWh. A SEER 15 units transfer 15 BTU of heat (inside to outside) per kWh thus 1000 kWh = 15,000 BTU. Now an 18 SEER unit simply transfers 18 BTU of heat per kWh (and 20 SEER 20 BTU per kWh). Given you need to transfer 15,000 BTU to cool your residence it would require 833 kWh (15,000 / 18). 833 kWh * $0.10 = $83.30

A better way to estimate you electricity for AC usage is to look at your average electricity usage from Oct-Feb. That is likely your baseline non-AC usage generally speaking lights. Then figure out your annual usage subtract 12* your monthly baseline and that is your AC load for the year. It is a ballaprk but other electrical usage doesn't really vary much. You use less lights in summer but use more fans. So the "peak" is roughly all AC consumption.

That amount in kWh * 15 SEER (since you have 15 SEER unit) = annual cooling load in BTU (energy). Once you know your annual load in BTU it is easy to figure out how much you would save annually going to another unit.


Generally it isn't worth it to "upgrade" unless you need to replace the unit anyways unless your unit is very old, poorly maintained (units lose efficiency without maintenance) or you have very high AC load ($200-$300 a month in peak summer).

[NNN0LHI]

58. I would never get that back even with the tax breaks

It was was about a two grand upgrade from a SEER 15 to SEER 18. And I only use my air conditioner for about 3 or 4 months in the year. And even then it gets cool at night and it doesn't come on much.

Price of electricity would have to skyrocket to get a return on that investment.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.

Don

[Statistical]

64. No problem.

Yeah generally the highest SEER units makes more sense where either cost of electricity is higher and/or the annual BTU load is higher. Some people in South TX, GA, etc routinely pay $300 a month in peak summer.

A 15 SEER unit is a good model about 15% more efficient than the minimum standard set by EPA. When our unit goes (on its last leg) likely we are looking to get a 15-16 SEER. For our AC usage it is a good compromise between upfront price and energy savings.

[flvegan]

95. I replaced my old system with a SEER 15 a few months ago.

My electric bill has been cut in half. The whole system will pay for itself in 2 years, I figure. Plus, my house (in Florida) is actually cool now.

[Statistical]

99. Nice to hear. Our model is ancient.

I tried to find the SEER rating but the nameplate is gone, and simply can't find any info. My guess is based on it is age and the fact that it is a builder special it is a SEER 9. Looking to replace it with a SEER 15-16 unit.

[azmouse]

16. Most places in the Phoenix area are way too cold.

When I leave a restaurant or store and my hands are freezing and the heat outside feels really good, I know the AC thermostat could be set higher. That would save a lot of electricity.
We need AC here on the desert. It's the reason why people aren't dying from the extreme heat (114 degrees this week and it is NOT a dry heat in July and August). But the AC doesn't need to be set to keep ice cream frozen.

[cali]

17. that's an excellent point.

[shanti]

42. same here in sacramento

we have the "dry heat", which reaches 100 degrees many times in the summer (although lately it seems like it's becoming more humid here). however, at my place of employment, they crank the AC down so that i have to bring extra clothing just to keep warm. and of course, there's always someone who thinks it's too warm anyway! i've had heat stroke a couple of summers here due to the high temps, and really can't handle temperature extremes, so i MUST have my ac, couldn't live here otherwise!

i was raised in southern cal, where central air wasn't really necessary due to the offshore breezes. it's not that way any more though!

[smirkymonkey]

65. I agree, and I can't figure out why businesses and corporations

keep their spaces so unnecessarily cold. I work in a Manhattan high-rise office building (have worked in a few of them) and they are all as cold as meat lockers. It's been extremely hot here lately, but people are wearing sweaters and shawls or coats inside just to stay warm. We go for breaks outside in the extreme heat and humidity just to warm up.

You would think business would want to save money (and the environment since so many of them talk up the "Green" thing) Yet they just blast the AC in the summer. I use my AC to sleep at night, but turn it off when I am gone and I have a fan for the nights when it's not unbearably hot. I just don't understand why people can't be satisfied w/ cool instead of ice-cold.

[Odin2005]

157. I think it's because it is expected that people get hot in those business suits.

Just my guess.

[smirkymonkey]

181. Time for Casual summers to save the environment. Suits are

ridiculous in the summer.

[Mariana]

172. It's not just businesses and corporations.

Plenty of public buildings are set way too cold in the summer, and too hot in the winter, too. My kid brings a sweater to school in June and August in Texas. It's ridiculous. Our other kid in another school district in Texas had the same experience, so it's not just this one.

I was at the city hall last week and it was freezing there, too.

They also use thousands upon thousands of gallons of water keeping the schools' football fields (not just the ones they play games on, but the practice fields, too) nice and green even in the worst droughts, when the rest of us are under severe water use restrictions.



Edited to correct unclear wording.

[dana_b]

140. exactly

I think that was the point of the article too but some people got a little carried away.

I live in a warmer part of the Bay Area (high eighties to over 100 in the summer) and I can't figure out why the movie theater, grocery store and most businesses set the thermostst to 65! Why not raise it to 78 degrees or so. That will still be comfortable to people coming in from the heat and we wouldn't need to bring a sweater with us to watch a movie.

[marmar]

19. I've always wondered about that......

I was in Seville, Spain, in late June a few years ago and the temperature was in excess of 40C (100+ F) every day. Granted, Seville's heat is a dry heat, but not that many homes, to my observation anyway, had A/C.
Our hotel room had A/C, but with little energy-saving touches. You had to keep your room key in a slot to run all electrics in the room. Once you took it out, everything shut down. (So you couldn't leave the room and keep the A/C going).
Anyway, in my mind, it's a necessity, but I wonder if it's just that were so conditioned to air conditioning. I'm sure there are hot, humid places in Africa and Southeast Asia where people manage without it.

[Kalyke]

32. And, in Spain, you get ocean breeze.

In land-locked Tennessee or Kentucky or Arkansas or in areas of coastal states not near the ocean, it drips of heat and humidity.

Spain is not even as big as Texas, for heaven's sake!

[tabbycat31]

57. I live in a coastal area

blocks from the beach, and most days I do get the ocean breeze.

I only have a small window unit in the bedroom as far as a/c goes.

Last week it was 100 AT the beach.

[ljm2002]

91. Spain may be smaller than Texas...

...but then again, Texas is a big darned state! All by way of saying, in inland cities like Madrid, no you do not get any ocean breeze.

[Kalyke]

162. You and Tabby actually made my point.

I was expressing exasperation that folks think humidity isn't a killer.

:hi:

[stray cat]

20. Some die but its a good way to get rid of the costly elderly or disabled or sick

[stray cat]

21. I hope you don't work in an air conditioned building

[DatManFromNawlins]

23. Sure, I'll stop using AC in the summer

When North Dakotans stop using heat in the winter.

[hedgehog]

26. There is a third way - Building for passive cooling and

adding air conditioning just as a back-up. For example - Green roofs, heavy insulation, street trees, triple pane windows that open and wide overhangs.

Also = loose shirts and no ties as standard business wear in the summer.

[David__77]

33. Very expensive - must be subsidized.

The government should take the lead - not the IOUs - in incentivizing such practices which are very expensive. They don't pay for themselves from the perspective of the consumer for many years.

[hedgehog]

36. It already is subsidized to some extent - the tax credit for energy

savings. What we need to do is go the other way and either require green building and/or penalize structures that aren't energy efficient.

[David__77]

53. I don't think we should explicitly do so.

We already kind of do this by just having things like building permit fees, impact fees, etc. The incentives are in order to help mitigate those fees, for instance. It's a tenuous balance between trying to transform the market and make these technologies cheaper on the one hand, and trying to avoid impeding economic activity on the other.

[Warpy]

27. My parents didn't get AC until they moved from NC to Florida

and then it was more for the humidity than the heat. I didn't get it until my last 2 years in Boston when I worked nights and needed a cool room to sleep in. A window unit was all I used, and I gave it away when I moved.

I now live in the desert and I still don't have AC. I use an evaporative cooler out here, something that is a fan, a pump, and air drawn through soaked pads to cool it. It works most of the time and I take it easy on the days it's not working.

Taking it easy in the heat is the idea. People have been oversold on that go-go, work your ass off during all waking hours idea to realize that Mother Nature does give us excuses to loaf from time to time: snowing us in, throwing heat waves at us, giving us hurricanes.

The key to living through heat waves with no AC was getting all your work done before noon and then sitting down with a book.

Slave driver society is what requires universal AC, not the human organism, itself.

[sufrommich]

93. I have a cousin who uses an evaporative cooler

in Arizona, I was shocked at how well it cooled things down.

[PJPhreak]

98. Swamp Coolers (Evap coolers)

Work wonderfully in the very dry climes,places like Tucson,Las Vegas,Palm Springs and so on.
In places like Miami,Charlotte,Atlanta,Philly,Kansas City they are practically useless,It all depends on the humidity.

As an Ex Tucsonion now living on S.E. Kansas I can attest to This....I REALLY miss my Swamper,It worked REALLY in TooStoned's arid clime...But Here it would be Worthless,S.E.Kansas is considered a "SubTropical" Climate...I did not belive it either till a few summers ago!

[sufrommich]

102. Oh, I hear you. It wouldn't work in our steamy

Michigan summers either.

[PJPhreak]

108. But a small one...

Might work in late Spring and early Fall up there.

[David__77]

29. I don't understand how the author thinks such a thing would happen.

I suppose that people who don't want to use air conditioning do not use it. Is the author calling for a legal ban on it? I would oppose that, as well as oppose any price differential for the energy not associated with kW - energy is energy.

It's very idyllic sounding, people "looking out for each other," but I also imagine there could be riots in the streets from people agitated from the heat. Personally, I would never live where I do if it weren't for AC - I'd definitely have to relocate. And 50 years ago, the population here was <25% what it is now, so I think I may not be alone.

[shanti]

63. amen, brother!

i see you are in sactown too ;-)

[Individualist]

30. Kill the elderly and those who are ill! Let 'em suffer!

:puke:

[Kalyke]

35. Hell, it would kill menopausal women - most of whom are not

elderly.

I'm menopausal and only 40!

[Critters2]

190. Yep. No women survived past menopause pre-air conditioning. nt

[Deep13]

37. An enthusiastic K&R!

What a bunch of wusses we have become! How ever did we survive a million years without A/C?

[Individualist]

39. Let 'em die!

Seasonality of death has been declining since the 1930s, probably mainly due to improved air-conditioning in buildings and vehicles.

http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/causes.html

[Deep13]

40. AGAIN, we are not talking about those few people who need it to breathe.

If grandma needs air conditioning in her bedroom, what does that have to do with keeping shopping malls air conditioned, or offices or homes of families who do not suffer from serious breathing disorders?

[Individualist]

44. So you'd restrict grandma to her bedroom. Nice.

And you'd deny access to shopping malls to people who have heat susceptible illnesses. Nice. And you think no one with chronic illness works in an office?

It isn't just people with serious breathing disorders that are adversely affected by heat:

Infants and young children are sensitive to the effects of high temperatures and rely on others to regulate their environments and provide adequate liquids.

People 65 years of age or older may not compensate for heat stress efficiently and are less likely to sense and respond to change in temperature.

People who are overweight may be prone to heat sickness because of their tendency to retain more body heat.

People who are physically ill, especially with heart disease or high blood pressure, or who take certain medications, such as for depression, insomnia, or poor circulation, may be affected by extreme heat.
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/disasters/extremeheat/heat

[Deep13]

59. mean atmospheric carbon dioxide is approaching 390 p.p.m.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

[Dreamer Tatum]

75. So? What does that mean? Are we supposed to know or care? nt

[Critters2]

185. +1 nt

[KillCapitalism]

38. No AC = a death sentence for some

I live around the St. Louis area & we get some nasty heatwaves. Years back we had one so bad that the police were picking up homeless people to take them to shelters. They gave them the choice of a cooling shelter or jail. That sounds a bit cruel, but the police didn't want to pick up their corpses later on.

The elderly certainly need AC to get by. It also seems like some on DU aren't seeing climate change as part of the equation. Heat waves are becoming more frequent and intense, and will continue to do so as time goes by.

[Individualist]

45. Some people just don't get it; others just don't give a damn.

[karynnj]

46. It has always stuck me as odd that some actally set the thermostat lower in summer than in winter

I remember a half century ago, when I was a 10 yr old in the Chicago area - with no ac. One thing it likely did was - at least for kids - lead to activities being very determined by the heat. Really hot days were spent in the tiny blowup swimming pools filled from the garden hose - or reading books in the shade. Where it was hardest was school - which was NOT air conditioned - and where it was tough on those really hot days at the end of the school year.

I think we likely have gone too far with air conditioning - actually setting it not just to be comfortable to be at least slightly cold. I've found that as long as the humidity is handed, there's no need to lower the heat below 78. Opening the windows when the temperature is lower than that in the night, can mean not hearing the ac kick in until afternoon.

I suspect that the future will not be a return to the 1950s, but a shift to better constructed, smaller homes that are far more energy efficient. It is hard to imagine giving up the additional comfort. (That and retiring to somewhere cooler - like vermont.)

[uppityperson]

48. Most people I know don't use it lavishly for months on end.

There are some businesses that have it set too low, but most people do not use it lavishly in everyday life for months on end.

"While central air will always be needed in facilities such as hospitals, archives and cooling centers for those who are vulnerable to heat, what would an otherwise A.C.-free Washington look like?" A lot fewer people would live there during the summer. A lot fewer people would live a lot of places during the summer.

[Critters2]

188. Most people I know do. The minute the heat is turned off in the spring,

the AC goes on. I find it amazing. I know people who never open their windows. Their kids will grow up not realizing windows CAN open.

[walldude]

49. While I understand this.. people die without AC in the summer...

and most air conditioners now have energy saver modes. There is a reasonable compromise here.

[ohheckyeah]

52. Get rid of air conditioners

and I bet the murder rate goes way up.

It's been in triple digits here in the mountains and I'm not getting rid of my air conditioner.

[NNN0LHI]

55. Without air conditioning all the gains would be lost with mold and other moisture related damage

Entire homes and their furnishings would become worthless in no time.

Even for people living up north here who may have not had a big humidity problem in the past, they are going to soon if they have not already realize due to the changing weather patterns we are going to be more susceptible to this problem. The first 15 years I lived here it wasn't so bad, but its been a constant battle for the past 5 years.

And this is a problem that someone doesn't want to ignore. Higher humidity levels can lead to black mold, wood rot, termites and other insect infestations and ruined furnishings.

Don

[Laughing Mirror]

61. When I was a child in DC in the 1950s and '60s nobody in my neck of the woods had air conditioners

Fans. Most people had electric fans, desk fans, window fans, but not everybody had them. A few stores had air conditioning, but most of the neighborhood stores just had those big monstrous floor fans. We boiled for 5 months, May through September, but somehow our bodies must have adapted because we survived.

[Toucano]

187. +1

"Somehow" we adapted to our environment rather than changing it to fit us.

[closeupready]

62. I could never live without a/c in a humid climate.

The heat and sun don't really bother me as long as I can run a fan or if there's a breeze.

The humidity, though - no way.

[Ganja Ninja]

66. Air conditioning does not have to contribute to greenhouse gas.

It's run on electric power and that can be produced without burning fossil fuels. A/C is not the problem, fossil fuel is the problem.

[Little Star]

78. Oh stop that being reasonable!

:sarcasm:

[Statistical]

109. DING DING DING. Plus electricity is the easiest GHG source to change.

The nice thing about electricity is that unlikely gasoline or heating oil the appliance (in this case AC) doesn't care what produced the electrical energy. It runs equally well on coal, nuclear, wind, or solar. You don't need a special "solar power" compaitble AC you simply need watts.

Of all the forms of GHG emissions electricity is the easiest solved because it only needs to be solved at the source, everything downstream is "blind" to the change.

Compare to replacing diesel trucks for example. You need to replace the diesel, but also the trucks, and the fuel stations. You can't simply change it "at the source".

[Contrary1]

69. What I haven't seen mentioned in this thread...

And, forgive me if I missed it; is that the US population increased by 102 million from 1960 to 2000. And millions more in this last decade. People are living longer.

Humans generate heat. More trees cut down to make way for homes. More blacktop roads leading to those homes. More vehicles traveling to and from wherever. More businesses cutting down more trees, and blacktopping more areas to be the "wherever" those vehicles travel to.

In my opinion, there is no logic to comparing 2010 to 40 or 50 years ago.

[Dreamer Tatum]

73. There's also been a couple of minor developments...

...called the PC and the Internet that use just a WEE bit of power.

But there are still a few million people out there who think the net runs on hummus or something.

If you're reading this, you're using electricity. If you use electricity, you use the energy to
produce that electricity.

So please, people, stop clucking tongues over conveniences like air conditioning.

[tammywammy]

70. No thanks

High humidity and high temperatures are killer. At my house I have a programmble thermostat, it stays 85 during the day, 78 early morning and evening and 82 at night. Now if I fall asleep before it actually gets to 82 I end up waking up at some point in the night hot and turning the temp down, otherwise I usually just end up setting it to 78 and going to bed. The max low I go to is 76 in the evenings. I also use my ceiling fans, and I only sleep with a light blanket over me, no sheets or anything else.

[Obamanaut]

72. I can recall when very few homes had a/c, and about the only businesses

that did were movie theaters, advertising 'conditioned air.'

Interestingly, we survived - even during heat waves.

[Dreamer Tatum]

76. I have a solution for you

Don't use AC in your home or car.

There you go - instant 1950 again.

[Obamanaut]

82. Well, aren't you the helpful one! FYI, we don't have central air in our

house, but we do have window units. We do not use them all at the same time. At this very moment, there are none running - but I do have ceiling fans running, and all the doors/windows open. I live in N. Florida, and from time to time it gets warm here too.

I went to the gym this morning, and used the natural cooling of the air passing by me on my motorcycle on the way to and from. It was pleasant.

People can survive w/o constant a/c, but most simply don't want to.

[raccoon]

163. I remember that too, but I wouldn't want to live that way again. nt

[sufrommich]

77. I grew up in a house with no air conditioning, We all

survived.

[laughingliberal]

104. I did, too. I noticed the summers were a lot hotter by the time I was grown. And the winters much sh

[Nye Bevan]

165. Yes you did. And you would have survived without indoor plumbing too.

After all, emptying bedpans never killed anyone. But why would you want to?

[InvisibleTouch]

81. Somehow people survived 100 years ago without it.

I never use it. Hate it. Some open windows early and late in the day to bring in some cross-ventilation is infinitely more comfortable. While I understand that not everyone shares my temperature preferences, surely it makes no sense to cool homes and businesses in the Summer to the point of people having to wear long sleeves? And turn the damn things off at night in the stores and university buildings when nobody's there.

[KatyMan]

94. Nice if you have cross breezes...

but we don't get breezes, and the heat doesn't really dissipate until a good while after the sun goes down. The humidity doesn't go away. We don't cool our house to the point of wearing long sleeves, but it's not possible to sleep in Houston without AC. Did it for a long time growing up, it's miserable.
But you're right, stores and other buildings that don't require temperature control should jack up the thermostat to the 80s overnight and on weekends. I know a lot of buildings downtown here turn off the AC at those times.

[Nye Bevan]

166. Yes they did. And they survived without indoor plumbing, too.

And so could you. But would you want to?

[Critters2]

186. +! nt

[Fumesucker]

83. I grew up without AC in the deep South..

Our home had screened in sleeping porches on the rear and twelve foot ceilings, it was designed to live in without AC, we essentially slept outside from May to September.

There is a layer of hot air trapped under the ceiling when you don't have AC in a hot climate, with an eight foot ceiling you are standing, sitting and even laying in bed in that hot layer of air, with a twelve foot ceiling the layer of stifling hot air is moved a few feet away from you most of the time.

Homes today are not designed to be livable without AC, they are largely sweltering sweatboxes in the summer without the benefit of artificial cooling.

[GoCubsGo]

149. Lots of old Southern houses have attic fans

It blows that hot air outside. I lived in one for several years. It was built in the 1920s. The attic fan kept the place mighty cool, for the most part. I would still have to run the AC, but not as often as I would if the place didn't have that fan.

[Deep13]

85. Maximum sustainable co2 = 350 ppm. Right now it's > 380 ppm.

We have to start turning things off.

http://www.350.org/about/science

[jpak]

87. If we had large photovoltaic systems that produced power to track that AC load

instead of gas-fired peaking plants

we could use all those AC units without the cabon emissions.

yup

[XemaSab]

110. The peakers here are mostly hydropower

:P

[Renew Deal]

89. I wonder if this person is also against central heating

And computer use. Molding all that silicon burns fossil fuels!

[sufrommich]

92. Air conditioning is a fairly new technology. People have been

using some source of heat since the invention of fire.

[LWolf]

96. I'm fortunate to live

in a dry climate, where evaporative cooling makes heat waves bearable. The cost of running a fan, plus some water.

I use a portable cooler, rather than investing in a whole-house system. It's on wheels, and follows me around the house.

[Mimosa]

111. Buildings used to be designed with temps in mind

Thicker walls, often stuccoed to reflect heat, higher ceilings and windows for cross ventilation. Also transoms over doors.

[Xithras]

114. People need to plant more TREES

My home is now ringed by 16 trees. Tall, narrow, and shade casting. Between them and the attic fan, I've reduced my A/C usage by more than 2/3rds over the last 5 years. That's saying something when you live in an area where 100+ degree summer temps are both predictable and normal.

A shaded home needs less A/C.

[Dreamer Tatum]

116. Also provides excellent kindling when wildfires come nt

[Xithras]

121. Depends on the tree

Many types of tree are fire resistant enough to withstand a wildland fire. I'm not suggesting that anyone plant conifers that will go up like torches at the first sign of fire. There's also no need to plant native species, if you're planting for shade.

[DatManFromNawlins]

145. Sorry, but the current line of reasoning...

... prohibits anyone having enough property to have trees to shade them. That's selfish and bad for the environment, because the burbhaters said so.

[End Of The Road]

115. OK, then I want folks in the frozen north to go without heat in the winter

I live in Texas and I rarely turn on the heat in the winter. I sleep with the windows open even when it's in the 30s (that's cold for my area) so that I can get the blankets out of storage... so nice!

Any argument that proposes southerners give up AC should also propose that northerns give up heat.

[laughingliberal]

124. Yep. Good for the goose...nt

[rainbow4321]

135. I live for the one week in my Texas area when I can open the windows

and air the place out..would drive my kids nuts cuz they thought it was freezing in the house but to me, it was so freash and cleansing after keeping it kept like a cave for the summer (and sometimes part of the early so called "Fall" season down here).

[Jefferson23]

117. This is a great topic, as our corporations are in a position to take the

lead. Financing change in coolants for them can take many forms, especially when they are building new. NYC has had some first in this respect:

The Hearst Tower, New York City's first 'Green' building.

http://www.go-green.ae/greenstory_view.php?storyid=502


For home owners this will prove more difficult depending on the stability of their economic status and what incentives our
government offers. Where I live there were a lot of McMansions built over the last 15 years, I am not aware that any of them were
built as smart homes.

Brad Pitt took on a very note worthy cause helping re-build New Orleans. The architects gathered I believe were as many of 14,
with expertise in building green. Those homes are cool in summer, warm in winter, incredibly energy efficient.

Esthetically speaking, I think they're awesome too.


K&R

[krabigirl]

118. If you choose to go without a/c in a heat wave, good for you. But sorry, I'll turn mine on.

Sorry if that bothers you.

[Taitertots]

119. Americans are so fat and lazy they think they would literally die without AC n/t

[Individualist]

137. Some people do literally die without A/C, and it has nothing to do with being fat or lazy.

See posts 50 and 55.

[Taitertots]

180. Exactly, millions of people will point to a fraction of a percent as the reason they need A/C

Anyone who would die from heat exposure could put a kiddie pool in their yard and they wouldn't die. If a kiddie pool won't save you, then you would die either way.

[Fast Dude]

120. The case against air conditioning? I hate to burst your bubble, but

you don't have a case.

[kjackson227]

126. It's a good idea unless you...

live in a hot state such as Texas, and/or have medical problems. Solar panels would help a lot if someone would like to donate :)

[MadHound]

127. The thing about this is that modern houses are simply not designed to be used without AC

There's a reason why old homes had high ceilings, dormer windows, whole house fans, etc. Modern houses, post WWII houses don't have these amenities built in, and many of them can't be added. Without this sort of built in cooling, modern houses become insanely hot, even in relatively cool summer weather.

If we want to move on from AC, then we need to start going back to building houses that can be cooled without AC.

[rainbow4321]

134. We've visited some pioneer villiages that had houses from centuries ago

Or at least replicas from that time frame and it was amazing how they thought of ways to build the houses/cabins back then specifically with warm temps in mind..the "dog run" area set up to catch the breeze, no glass windows, shaded areas around the main living areas to keep the sun away, etc....
Biggest difference..that is the only life those people knew so they built accordingly. Nowadays, HAVING A/C is the only life most people know so adapting to no a/c is unimaginable for them. Least, that is my opinion.

[End Of The Road]

170. At least the 1950s-era house I grew up in had cross ventilation

You could get a decent breeze through that house, especially at night.

The house I live in now, although it has plenty of windows, has no cross ventilation. I've got ceiling fans, but they just move the hot air around. There's little choice but to run the AC.

[alarimer]

129. Not having a/c can actually KILL people

Especially the elderly, in apartments that were not designed for hot weather.
Maybe they do not have cross-ventilation, like my apartment, which is an absolute sweat-box without a/c. The windows are all on the opposite side of the prevailing wind, so breeze either. Now I could probably deal with the heat but I doubt I could get any sleep.

Our buildings are no longer designed to do without a/c. My office building is hermetically sealed. The windows do not open at all. None of them. All those computers would stop working because it would get too hot for them. Do any of these assholes who want us to do without a/c ever consider modern building design and the need for machines to keep cool in order for them to function? What about hospitals? Those life support machines would fail if they got too hot as well.

[crazyjoe]

130. FU, self righteous bullshit.

[pitohui]

131. a lot of people, esp. elders, die w.out ac

we have an aging population, and one's ability to withstand extremes of heat drops sharply after age 60, i don't care how "fit" you may imagine you are, nor do i much respect people who would like the "unfit" to drop dead before their time

there are always those who feel that "america" could thrive with fewer of those expensive nuisances called old people hanging around

there was a day when only the rich lived to be really old and that mentality, of only the "elite" to deserve to have a nice life or any length of life, keeps popping up in various disguises

don't call it green when it's really MEAN

[backwoodsbob]

133. in a cold wave..the case against heating

Washington didn't grind to a freezing halt last week under single-digit temperatures. People didn't even slow down. Instead, the three-day, 10-degree, record-shattering cold wave prompted Washingtonians to crank up their favorite humidity-reducing, electricity-bill-busting, fluorocarbon-filled appliance: the central heat pump

This isn't smart. In a country that's among the world's highest greenhouse-gas emitters, central heating is one of the worst power-guzzlers. The energy required to heat American homes and retail spaces has doubled since the early 1990s. Turning buildings into furnaces burns fossil fuels, which emits greenhouse gases, which raises global temperatures, which causes temp fluctuations which creates a need for -- you guessed it -- more heating.

heatings's obvious public-health benefits during severe cold waves do not justify its lavish use in everyday life for months on end. Less than half a century ago, America thrived with only the spottiest use of central heat. It could again. While central heat will always be needed in facilities such as hospitals, archives and heating centers for those who are vulnerable to cold, what would an otherwise heat.-free Washington look like?

[hedgehog]

139. I have one question after going all through this thread: Since the South and

Southwest are inhabitable without the use of air conditioning, and since Willis Haviland Carrier invented the first practical air conditioner in 1902, who lived below the Mason-Dixon before 1902,
Martians?

Also, in case no one noticed, it was pretty hot up here in New York State last week. apparently, a call to lessen our dependence on air conditioning is aimed at killing off Southerners, but not Northerners. Now, what is the cut-off here? Do people who survive two weeks of weather in the 90's only to drop dead if the heat wave goes into a third week? Or are Northerners just hardier people able to tolerate high heat as well as bitter cold?

Let me add to my above questions::sarcasm: and get to my real question:

Why is a suggestion that we try to cut back on the use of a relatively recent technology described as an attack on an entire region?

[DatManFromNawlins]

143. Perhaps because you don't see the sheer hypocrisy of the statement?

I have NEVER seen a call for Northerners to cut back on heating.

Ever.

[hedgehog]

147. Check out posts 144 and 157. The general tenor of a lot of

posts in this thread is that the South is unlivable without air conditioning. Oddly enough, it appears that it's Southerners making that claim!

As someone who has an actual physical peg in my thermostat that keeps anyone from turning my heat up past 68 degrees, I'm trying to figure out how a suggestion that people rely less on air conditioning gets turned into attempted regionicide.

BTW - the old style houses in New Orleans offer excellent examples of low tech, low energy ways to handle the heat!

[Mariana]

174. You haven't been looking, then. nt.

[aikoaiko]

154. Sorry, my AC is set at 70 degrees.

I can't imagine living in GA without it.

[MajorChode]

158. Strawman fail

Nobody said the South was "inhabitable(sic)" without A/C. People used to shit in holes out in their backyard also. Would you care to do so in order to save water?
http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/shelter/toilet.htm

Your question is loaded. The article the OP cited was about life without A/C, not cutting back.

[Gormy Cuss]

171. Did you even read the opinion article?

Even in the snippet posted in the OP the author makes clear that A/C is a necessity in some situations, heat waves being one of them. The author is positing that we could do with a lot less A/C, not suggesting that it be banned.

As for shitting in the backyard, something you've mentioned at least twice in this thread, if it's more ecologically friendly then yes we should use the modern equivalent (such as a composting toilet) rather than the water and resource intensive system we have now.

[MajorChode]

173. Yes, obviously you didn't

So I'll repost the excerpt that you either didn't read, or failed to understand:

A.C.'s obvious public-health benefits during severe heat waves do not justify its lavish use in everyday life for months on end. Less than half a century ago, America thrived with only the spottiest use of air conditioning. It could again. While central air will always be needed in facilities such as hospitals, archives and cooling centers for those who are vulnerable to heat, what would an otherwise A.C.-free Washington look like?

The author was suggesting A/C only for a few with the masses having to suck it up. Do you need to be drawn a picture?

So tell me, are you shitting in your back yard?

[SoxFan]

146. Dear Stan: Bite Me

Hugs and Kisses,

SoxFan

[conscious evolution]

150. I love my sauna

Sitting in 160-190 degree several times a week makes 95 degree days seem down right cold.

[Nye Bevan]

164. I love my air conditioning. I will give it up when you pry it from my cold 68 degree fingers.

One of the pleasures of summer is walking through my door into my house when the heat and humidity outside becomes unpleasant. Or seeing the condensation on the outside of my window, showing me that I am blissfully insulated from the steamy outdoors.

[uncommon]

168. Not sure if that was sarcasm, but I actually feel exactly that way. I also don't really care

about the environment though. Not to sound cruel, but the planet will outlive us unless we blow it up, so we are only hurting ourselves.

(I still try to be judicious about energy usage but I won't be a slave to it.)

[Nye Bevan]

169. Nope. Not sarcasm. I do love my a/c.

And I love setting my car's a/c to 65 degrees with recirc on. I hate being hot and sweaty and summers would be miserable for me (even in CT) with no a/c. If the environmental do-gooders want to start preaching, let Al Gore get rid of his a/c as an example for everyone. I don't expect that he will, given his recent alleged steamy bedroom exploits.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

179. See #178. -nt

[EnviroBat]

175. We tried an experiment in my central Ohio home this year.

We set the A/C to ~78 and run fans to keep the DRY air moving around the home. It works nicely, and it's not un-comfortable. I have breathing issues in high humidity. The key to the perception of coolness is to dry out the air. Now on the other hand, I hate the cold, but I can always bundle layers of clothing to stay warm.

[MajorChode]

176. The temp setting on the thermostat doesn't take into account humidity

The heat index is really what your body is going to feel. When I lived in west Texas, I kept the thermostat considerably higher because without the humidity, you certainly didn't feel as hot, especially if you had some type of fan blowing on you.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

177. 78 IS livable. -nt

[Nye Bevan]

182. True. But 74 is *more* liveable (nt)

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

178. Imagine the most rabid gun defender from the Gungeon. That's how I feel about AC.

Six straight months of 100+ heat where I live.

No way. No way in hell. Besides, MY electricity comes from gravity, so fuck off.

[Critters2]

184. Thanks for this! I get so tired of being in buildings where it's so cold I have to take a sweater

in with me. I use the AC as little as possible, to save energy and because I like to have my windows open (yeah, I'm crazy!). I have a whole house fan, which I turn on high in the early evening, low (or off), during the night, and off during the day. The house feels fine except on the very few hot, humid days when it doesn't cool off at night. At those times, I turn on the air. I used it 4 days last summer. I'm at 3 for this summer. May turn it on tonight.

I grew up without AC and we all seem to have survived to adulthood, somehow. It can be done. People did it for millenia before AC.

[Toucano]

189. Greener heating and cooling need to be basic design elements of buildings

Design and engineering has to take these principles into consideration to help people reduce their dependency on air conditioning.