Arizona immigration law opens farm jobs to unemployed

[pinboy3niner]

Source: Arizona Republic

Arizona immigration law opens farm jobs to unemployed
by Jahna Berry and Michael Kiefer - Jul. 15, 2010 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

For years, both sides of the immigration issue have debated whether immigrants take jobs that Americans won't.

Now, high unemployment and a tough new Arizona immigration law will test that idea in a $9 billion industry: Arizona agriculture.

Arizona needs about 50,000 temporary workers to harvest winter produce, and only 25,000 of those workers typically come from the U.S. side of the border, according to an Arizona farm lobby group.

At least some workers from past years say they won't be returning to Arizona this season.


Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/07/15/20100715arizona-immigration-law-farm-jobs-for-unemployed.html#ixzz0tonkoxXl

[Bobbieo]

1. YUP!!!!!!!!

[howard112211]

2. I fail to understand what those Americans have achieved that makes them more deserving of these jobs

[cali]

3. huh? what does achievement have to do with it?

[howard112211]

4. Well.

Implementing measures that provide for one group at the expense of another group demands justification. The usual justification given in the immigration debate is that, well, one group are American workers, so we should take care of them first. But since citizenship is an arbitrary thing, there is really no general base for such an argument (other than practicalities, such as that one group has voting rights and therefore needs to be appealed to). I could follow (although not necessarily agree with) an argument that was based on the premise that one group achieved more and therefore should get preferential treatment. However, that seems to be not the case here.

Citzenships are the continuation of the concept of "royalty" into modern times: One group has more freedom and preferetial treatment as a birthright. However, since the enlightenement it is generally understood that there is no base for this.

[cali]

5. No, citizenship is not entirely arbitrary.

and who's definition of achievement are we talking about? Achievement in what sense, specifically?

[howard112211]

6. I offered no general definition of achievement.

One could view achievement in the sense of "being more qualified for a particular job". As I have stated, I could follow an argument based on such a concept, although I would not necessarily agree with it (individual needs could for instance also be taken into account, in case of which I might agree with such an argument more).

As for citizenships: I was in the process of editing my above post before you replied. My take on citzenships is that they are the continuation of the concept of "royalty" into modern times: One group has more freedom and preferetial treatment as a birthright. However, since the enlightenement it is generally understood that there is no base for this. If you are American or western European, or maybe Japanese, you are lucky as hell. Its like winning the lottery.

The effect of citizenship becomes most visible to a person who travels. It begins with how visa are given. As an American, the entire world is open to you. Moreover, travel to eastern Europe for instance and tell someone who has been seeking to travel that you are an American/French dual citizen. Chances are they will look at you much like a peasant would have looked at a king.

I was traveling to Israel once with a friend who is from Brasil. With my American passport, the security check was a long and thorough, but friendly, conversation that lasted about 30 minutes. In contrast, my they let my friend dance like a clown for three hours. The chinese people who were also in our group were said to have taken just as long.

Simiar thing happened when I was coming into the US with a german friend. She was asked all sorts of personal questions while I was just waived through.

anyway, I better get back to work, or my boss will shoot me for not "achieving"...

[cali]

7. codswallop. pulling the enlightenment into your argument about citizenship

is absurd. What enlightenment figures are you speaking of? Rousseau? In any case, it's ridiculous- and false- to claim that post-enlightenment there's a general consensus about citizenship.

And yes, I've traveled.

I have to get to work to. Fortunately, my boss is one of my closest friends.

[Erose999]

8. I really doubt anything will change. Farm subsidies for agribusiness artificially devalue farm work.

And the farmers themselves operate at such low margins that they can't afford the wages a legal worker would demand.

Most of the people who own and operate industrial farms are barely getting by as it is. The way that corporate AG does contracts with the owners of these farms requires the owners to put up a lot of investment for very little return.

And for every farm worker who doesn't cross the border there are still workers lined up to take his place. As long as there are corporations willing to hire illegal immigrants, and authorities who turn a blind eye toward those corporations, the immigrants are going to keep coming.