Raids are increasing on farms and private food-supply clubs—here are 5 tips for surviving one

[marmar]

from Grist:



Raids are increasing on farms and private food-supply clubs—here are 5 tips for surviving one
by David Gumpert

14 Jul 2010 10:32 AM


When the 20 agents arrived bearing a search warrant at her Ventura County farmhouse door at 7 a.m. on a Wednesday a couple weeks back, Sharon Palmer didn't know what to say. This was the third time she was being raided in 18 months, and she had thought she was on her way to resolving the problem over labeling of her goat cheese that prompted the other two raids. (In addition to producing goat's milk, she raises cattle, pigs, and chickens, and makes the meat available via a CSA.)

But her 12-year-old daughter, Jasmine, wasn't the least bit tongue-tied. "She started back-talking to them," recalls Palmer. "She said, 'If you take my computer again, I can't do my homework.' This would be the third computer we will have lost. I still haven't gotten the computers back that they took in the previous two raids."

As part of a five-hour-plus search of her barn and home, the agents -- from the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office, Los Angeles County Sheriff, Ventura County Sheriff, and the California Department of Food and Agriculture -- took the replacement computer, along with milk she feeds her chickens and pigs.

While no one will say officially what the purpose of this latest raid was, aside from being part of an investigation in progress, what is very clear is that government raids of producers, distributors, and even consumers of nutritionally dense foods appear to be happening ever more frequently. Sometimes they are meant to counter raw dairy production, other times to challenge private food organizations over whether they should be licensed as food retailers.

The same day Sharon Palmer's farm was raided, there was a raid on Rawesome Foods, a Venice, Calif., private food club run by nutritionist and raw-food advocate Aajonus Vonderplanitz. For a membership fee of $25, consumers can purchase unpasteurized dairy products, eggs that are not only organic but unwashed, and a wide assortment of fermented vegetables and other products. .............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.grist.org/article/food-five-tips-for-surviving-a-raid-on-your-farm-or-food-club/

[ixion]

1. And you can be sure that with a little poking around, you'd find the instigators

are the usual suspects: Big 'Food' (sic). :grr:

[BrklynLiberal]

87. ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Corporate farming and distribution cannot endure anything

that cuts into their profits..even the littlest bit!!

[AllyCat]

92. That's right! I remember a Republican member of Congress trying to regulate

people's home gardens a couple years back. I can't imagine they've stopped yet. It is all for our own safety, I'm sure.

ugh.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. This is just wrong.

Are the big food producers afraid of the competition? I cannot imagine what is going on here, but I don't like it.

Recommended.

[yella_dawg]

45. "Are the big food producers afraid of the competition? "

I'm in the local produce business, both as producer and seller. The answer is yes. I can't harm "Big Food", but there are a lot of us, and together, we're taking a real bite out of profits. My food tastes good and you don't have to worry about contamination. That's a double whammy that terrifies the majors.

[CoffeeCat]

66. Big Food should be worried...

...because people understand that much of what they put into their produce, meat and dairy is toxic.

People don't like it.

Many people are finding alternatives and buying local. This trend is only going to increase as
people become more health conscious and want to buy local.

Corporations are becoming the enemy of the American citizen and more people want to stop supporting
them--while supporting local farmers and producers such as yourself.

Amazing work you're doing there. Kudos to you!

[Patchuli]

73. Geez, is there any front we don't have to fight

these greedy bastards on????????????????

We can feed ourselves you dumbasses and you cannot stop us!

[Kali]

3. as usual, this bullshit is carried out in the name of "protection" and "safety"

regs bastardized by big ag for their benefit, not for the small farmers and consumers

[waronbanks]

4. The Corporates are in control.

From the white house on down. Our courts, regulatory agencies, education and of course the media...its all under control by the Corporates. thats what this is about...the corporate rulers having their way with trouble makers.

[truedelphi]

40. Sung to th tune of "There's no business like show business"

There's no government
Like no government
We'd smile when we were down.

No longer paying for agencies that help the Rich
No longer paying for the agencies that slam the Good

If we ever knew how we could reform the Man
We would surely demand that we can
Have No Government at all.

I know that that the above is perhaps taking it one step too far, but my blood boils over whenever I realize how the Obama administration has enabled the Mike Taylors of the world into shutting down those who are still, despite all the obstacles, attempting to grow and raise organic food.

And in enabling Mike Taylor, he is enabling Monsanto.

[supernova]

5. What the hell?

:wtf:

So, if you hook up with a farmer now, it's "illegal"?

It's bad to pay for and accept fresh produce, then process it in your kitchen for your own use?

[Scout]

6. i think it's the raw milk and the unwashed eggs they have a problem with?? n/t

[supernova]

10. Sounds like

But I'm not sure I'd want to eat unwashed eggs. Ewww.

I'm not a milk person (lactose intolerant) but some raw milk cheeses are good.

[TalkingDog]

44. There's this new invention, it's called soap and water.

It's how they get the eggs clean before they go into the cartons.

[bvar22]

49. Egg Shells are porous.

We don't wash our eggs.....until immediately before consumption, and then never with soap or other chemicals.
Fresh eggs have a natural coating that prevents infection with microorganisms.
If an egg is washed, especially in cold water, it is possible to draw contaminants inside the egg.

There is a lot of info on this.
Google "Washing Eggs".

[Mojorabbit]

98. I have a few hens

and I don't wash my eggs either till I am ready to use them.

[MedicalAdmin]

51. Every egg you eat was at one point unwashed.

I would suggest that you wash your food before you eat it, and not just the eggs. Or you can pay someone else to do it for you. Or you can just keep saying ewwww until the only eggs available are the new improved MonsantoEgg.

Let's face it, most food deaths and illnesses are NOT coming from small family farms. This is just another example of the government / corporation revolving door. They are going after anyone who threatens their profits.

[CoffeeCat]

67. How long before...

...they send in SWAT teams to local farmer's markets???

"LADY!! Please step away from the organic spinach, put down the fresh carrots and no one will get hurt!"

[AnArmyVeteran]

74. LOL

[Jackpine Radical]

113. Most food deaths and illnesses are not even recognized for what they are.

A high percentage of disease, especially of the chronic sort, is due to toxins, carcinogens, and other weird additives that do strange things to you, like HFCS.

We garden and rely as much as possible on local producers.

[Grinchie]

85. You've obviously never seen eggs laid by a chicken that's not knee deep in shit.

The way they jam industrial egg producers in tiny cages is pretty horrifying, and I agree with you, those eggs can be pretty nasty.

My free range chickens lay very clean eggs, which is normal.

When was the last time you washed the contents of an egg?

[rucognizant]

95. You buy them

take them home & WASH THEM YOURSELF! Qwner of chickens doesn't have to CHARGE YOU, for the time HE spends washing eggs.
If you had your oWn chickens in the backyard, YOU WOULD OF COURSE WASH THEM BEFORE EATING.
It only took 2 1/2 generations to divorce people from nature pre3tty completely!

[FedUpWithIt All]

107. Like many others, we also don't wash our eggs until we use them.

There is a protective covering on the eggs, called bloom, which prevents bacteria from entering the eggs. When the porous eggs are washed they allow bacteria from the surface of the egg to penetrate the shell. The unwashed eggs last much longer and are less likely to be contaminated.

Edited to add: Right before we use the eggs we wash them in water (warmer than the temp of the egg) with a little vinegar. No soap.

[Recursion]

34. Basically. Unprocessed food is "dirty" and "unsafe" in people's minds

I'd take my chances with raw milk or unbagged veggies from a local farm I know and can go see rather than trust the shit* that comes in a plastic bag in the grocery store.

* literally: the reason there were outbreaks from bagged vegetables is that the megafarms don't provide their field hands adequate bathroom facilities. Ewww.

[inchhigh]

38. Chickencare?

"It's bad to pay for and accept fresh produce, then process it in your kitchen for your own use? "

Wow, imagine what would happen if a farmer were to barter their poultry for something like healthcare. Good thing nobody's proposing anything like that.............

[MedicalAdmin]

52. I run a clinic and we take produce and chickens.

From farmers who need a helping hand with the bills. They are our best patients and we love it when they show up. Lot's of good food and good feelings.

[shireen]

79. +1

[SunnySong]

71. Safety Nannies on steroids... try importing british Cheese for personal use. nt

[Electric Monk]

81. Couple of years back, there was this local farmer who had the BEST fillet mignon, every month or two

by pre-order only, and then they just stopped, but didn't say why. I miss it. Best meat I've ever eaten. I think the stoppage had something to do with that "mad cow" scare, but can't say for sure.

[FedUpWithIt All]

108. A lot of times it is the cost of the required equipment that forces the small farmer out of business

The required stuff is often ridiculously expensive and can only be afforded by the large scale commercial types.

[xchrom]

7. I'll rec this on behalf of CSAz - I belong to a couple.

But not raw goodies - that is beyond my notions of healthy.

[Arkansas Granny]

39. I was raised on raw milk and unwashed eggs. I can understand the reluctance

some people who are not familiar with small family farms might have with these products, but I believe that they are generally safe. The livestock on these small farms are an important investment and are cared for using very good animal husbandry practices.

Our cows were healthy, tested for brucellosis and tb, and proper milk handling procedures were adhered to. Nobody ever got sick from drinking the milk and it tasted better than any pastuerized, homogenized milk I've ever purchased.

Our chickens were healthy, free range birds who ran around all day eating bugs and whatever else they saw that looked good to them. They laid their eggs in clean nest boxes that we provided in the chicken house. I don't recall that we ever felt a need to wash the eggs unless we saw dirt or feces on them, which was rare. Fresh eggs have a natural coating that protects them from bacteria. Washing removes this barrier and it has to be replaced with another oil (mineral oil is common) to prevent spoilage.

[kestrel91316]

91. People who are concerned about unwashed eggs and unpasteurized

dairy products are FREE TO BUY WASHED AND PASTEURIZED STUFF. I have no problem with people being free to enter into private transactions with any food producer they choose as long as they are informed about the situation.

People who are worried about germs can shop at Ralph's. Of course that's no guarantee of safety, but at least nobody's knickers will get in a twist.

[MedicalAdmin]

54. If you eat raw foods then soon bad things will happen ...

... like you will start speaking French. Jeeeeez.

There is nothing wrong with raw foods. You are MUCH more likely to get cooties (or whatever you are worried about) from commercial hamburger. It's about having a relationship with your local producers. Visit the farms. Find out what goes into real foods. You'll be glad you did - don't forget to take your kids.

Keep in mind that only about 3 or 4 generation ago, this was how most people ate. If it was so bad and dangerous, how did we win WW2 with all those deathly sick american's.

[xchrom]

64. Um - contrary to what you'll read here - romantically, I might add-

Farmers and their product can be very dirty - and not
in a back to the land good kinda way.

As far as I'm concerned - you're arguing from the
pinnacle of romantic ignorance.

[Ms. Toad]

86. As a farm girl - you got that right.

Some farms/farmers are dirty in a back of the land good kinda way - others, not so much. I don't know that they need to be any more "harassed" than mega-farms, but if they are selling food to othersleaving them out of the health related requirements and inspections is not a good idea.

[rucognizant]

96. Med Admin,

Thanks for the common sense. I grew up eating raw foods.I am one of the healthiest people I know @ 71. I remember plucking the chickens for my Mother, before I was 6 years old, eating raw fruits & veggies right where they grew, no washing............I'm sure the old farmers employed time tested farming methods, that produced a bountiful crop with out "over the top" scientific methodology.
Fortunately our local ( Belgian owned market chain, buys raw milk from a local dairy farm so we have a choice. Hope they don't get raided.

[SoCalDem]

8. It's because she provides food to others and there's money involved

The FDA comes down hard on individuals who try to start up a food business. Its ironic too, because so much really bad stuff comes from the giants of the food industry, but apparently they "know" the right people.

Today's food industry is ruthless.. Anyone who has an idea or a recipe, is forced to go big, before they are financially ready, and once in financial distress ( a side effect), a "biggie" comes along to buy them out & make them go away..

If she did not charge for membership or her products, they would leave her alone..

Modern society claims to value entrepreneurship, but only if you do it in a big way..right from the start (which pretty much guarantees that you will fail)..

[supernova]

13. I'm slowly finding that out

I'm thinking of starting a candy business.

But I have to:

1)get food safety training (OK, I can go with that.)

2) Prepare everything in a certified commercial kitchen which I will have to rent by the hour to make my goodies.

[SoCalDem]

18. We had a friend who made the best baked stuff, and she used to

offer them for sale at her dad's business. She convinced herself that she could start a business & opened a coffee shop..within a year she was flat broke & closed up..and in debt..

It takes a LOT of small sales to make enough to "pay yourself" and pay rent & utilities..and then you have to commit to being there all the time..

there's a reason why so many small businesses fail..

[supernova]

24. I'm starting very small

I'm gonna start with a stall at the main flea market in raleigh on the weekends. Perhaps at the local weekly farmers' markets here in Durhan and Chapel Hill. h

I want it to be very small at first just because of the whole, getting too big too fast phenom.

[supernova]

30. I'm worried about my SiL

she is an excellent baker (eventhough diabetic, yeah... I know...)

There was a guy down the street who had his own butcher shop. We used to go there for steaks, hams, fresh sausages and so forth. He at one time had her selling her home-baked cakes through his store. This was before all the new regs for small time food producers were put in place.

This butcher has another store now across town. She again will be making cakes for him ... out of her house.

I've tried to get her to go in with me at the commerical kitchen (opening nearby this fall) but I'm afraid that might have fallen on deaf ears.

*sigh*

I'm afraid she's going to get into real trouble. I've talked to a friend (another DUer) here about this. He says the health dept inspectors will now follow you home if they suspect you aren't following regs.

[SoCalDem]

36. They will.. She would probably get off with a fine at first though

She probably should heed your advice..It might even end up cheaper for her to have all her stuff in a locker there, and to not have to work from her own kitchen..

[Manifestor_of_Light]

69. Legal tip: She may need to have a separate kitchen in her house.

If she sells food made there in her house.

Check it out.


I am a lawyer but i don't play one on TV. :D

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. "If she did not charge for membership or her products"

If she did not * openly * charge is what I am thinking.

Local sellers are going to have to go underground.

I doubt very much if the 2 produce markets in my town do any paperwork or taxes.

[glitch]

41. Black markets in FOOD now. Amazing. nt

[dixiegrrrrl]

62. Nothing new.

There has always been an underground economy in food and other stuffs.

Case in point. Ca. made smog checks for cars mandatory, and expensive.
I know people who always passed because they slipped the local inspector 50.00.
Cheaper than having to buy a new car.

I used to trade my home grown eggs for raw milk, make butter from it, trade that for something, etc.
Now imagine lots and lots and lots of people doing that .

I am sure the man I buy half a cow from doesn't report the cash I pay to the Feds.
Not my business to ask, either.
I get fairly cheap organic beef, he gets a fair price for it.
The law only requires he gets a butcher to cut and wrap it.

I cat sit for friends when they go to the city, they bring me back fresh coffee beans,
fresh specialty bread, that I cannot buy locally.

[Recursion]

32. Not true

If she did not charge for membership or her products, they would leave her alone..

There are pages and pages of "respect my authori-tie" type state ag officials terrorizing (including beating, arresting, etc.) farmers who give away their milk to people who like raw milk. And cow-sharing just gets shut down right and left despite the fact that it is completely legal (and is as far as we know the oldest way of buying milk, for that matter). There are way too many state health or ag officials who just can't stand the fact that not everybody wants processed packaged food, and don't seem to care on whom they tread to get rid of local food networks.

[ixion]

47. and by "know" the right people, you mean

they PAY the right people, the right amount of hush money. :grr:

[Odin2005]

102. The regulalatory system is rigged in favor of Big Business.

in fact, regulations are INHERENTLY biased towards Big Business because of the expenses involved with regulatory compliance.

[FedUpWithIt All]

109. A lot of people use "suggested donation" and barter because the requirements

to sell at the marginal level is not feasible.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[marmar]

12. Yeah, because the Industrial Food Biz has done such a good job of that....

Why there hasn't been an e-coli outbreak or salmonella incident in AGES !!!!! :eyes:

[Lance_Boyle]

17. So it's better to leave the boutique farms alone, then, to peddle possible poison?

Food safety regulations benefit us all. No food producer should be exempt, no matter how fucking aligned their chakras are. :eyes:

[Recursion]

26. The raw milk crowd isn't the granola crowd

I know because I like raw milk so I interact with them (but I'm definitely not in their world). There's a lot of Amish/Menonite people, a lot of "quiverfull" fundie types, and a lot of off-the-grid anti-industrialists. Not really any "new age" types that I've seen.

[druidity33]

43. peddle poison?

Give me a break. Here's the wiki link for "raw milk":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_milk
As you can see, MANY other nations see no problem with allowing the sale of unpasteurized products.

Why is it the government will allow the sale of addictive and destructive agents such as alcohol and tobacco to adults, but not allow them to choose a product that is, at its worst, inconclusively different from its sanitized counterpart?

As for washing eggs, the point of that is that an egg should be washed just before consumption, but not until then. By washing an egg, you rinse off the bloom that seals the pores and keeps OUT bacteria. Commercial producers use a chlorine bleach soak to eliminate this "problem". The thing is though, if you keep nest boxes clean and lined with fresh litter, collect often, and refrigerate promptly, the egg isn't "covered in shit" like it would be coming from a commercial "egg farm".


Why would you want to deny me the right to choose for myself how i want my food?

Chakras?

:shrug:

[yella_dawg]

46. When you have no idea what you are talking about.

You might consider STFU.

[ixion]

48. Then why is processed poison allowed to be sold as 'food'?

I ask you.

[Canuckistanian]

61. Spoken like a true ignorant city boy

This isn't some "back to the land" movement. It's what country people have done for centuries.

"Food producers", such as factory farms kill people with their lax hygiene and poor quality control.

"Farmers", on the other hand, KNOW what the fuck they're doing, because they FEED THEIR OWN FAMILIES with their "produce".

I'll be glad to dump a trailer-full of manure onto your property just to let you get a "sense" of life on a farm.

[SunnySong]

72. Yeah but the safety issue is very overblown...

Honestly I don't blame the cheese police I blame the unelected nannies that come up with this freedom hating crap.

[hedgehog]

20. I'm ambivalent about this issue. On the one hand, we have this from the link:

"The Minnesota Department of Agriculture has declined comment on such raids, saying they are part of an ongoing investigation into raw milk distribution in the state in lieu of eight illnesses in May linked to raw milk. "

On the other hand, food recalls in general have become so common that they barely merit a a paragraph. For example - I vaguely recall a major food plant shut down last summer tyhat had pigeons nesting in the rafters.

I will allow for argument's sake that a person who knowingly buys raw milk make be risking a food borne illness. On the other hand, I think it would be a better application of FDA resources to step up inspections of conventional food plants which are selling dangerous products to consumers unaware of any risks.

Given a choice, would you rather buy beef grown and slaughtered by a neighbor in an un-inspected facility you've seen yourself, or ground beef at the grocery store that came from who knows where and subjected to who knows what treatment?

[haele]

50. The problem with raw foods comes when you forget you have them -

In my experience, if you don't freeze them immediately, raw, organic, "just picked" fruits and veggies, freshly made unpasteurized cheeses and freshly butchered meats and fish go bad very quickly (even if they're kept in the fridge). Usually within three days - which is why we hit the farmer's markets on Saturdays and then later during the week in the evenings.

That's the sort of thing that sickened people on a regular basis before the mid-20th century; why my city-born parents remember going grocery shopping every other day or so with their moms when they were kids - why they also remember supplementing fruits and veggies with home-canned/preserved backyard garden or window-box produce. (I lust after the ancient 1940's stovetop pressure cooker my mom still has that was made for home-canning and pot roasting)

A little forgetfulness about that bowl of lemons, those links of fresh-made breakfast sausage, or that bag of berrata cheese on the bottom shelf, and five days later, you have a nice, fuzzy green colony on your rather expensive healthy produce. If you consumed them the day previous even though they might have tasted a bit "off", you might be harboring a rowdy collection mold and bacteria just getting ready to party their way down your intestinal tract.

Most food-borne illnesses come from improper handling and storage.

Haele

[Lorien]

78. Diabetes is a pretty big "food borne" illness, and most cases come from high fructose

corn syrup. my grandparents grew most of their own food and bartered for what they didn't have. They both died near age 90. One fell out of an apple tree and the other slipped down a flight of stairs. They barely had a single day of illness in their lives.

[immune]

27. Yeah, and eating those three computers they took

would probably be harmful to somebody's health. Besides, they taste like plastic.

[Dawson Leery]

11. What about the family farms?

They are quite common in New England and the Midwest.

[Lance_Boyle]

15. If they sell their goods, they are under FDA jurisidiction

and subject to the same food safety laws as the rest of the nation's food suppliers. The "pure foods" new-age-yuppies-turned-farmers have to follow the rules, too. And that's a good thing.

[SoCalDem]

19. or stay small & underground with a casual barter system

that's the only way it works unless you are prepared to go big and follow all the regs to the letter.

[Lance_Boyle]

23. And when you barter away some tainted food that kills someone? What then?

Whole/natural food is all fine and good, but for jeebus' sake! Food safety laws are not just there to make work for the feds - do the majority of posters on this topic really want us to go back to an unregulated market for food? If that invisible hand has invisible feces on it, I don't want it handling my lettuce...

[SoCalDem]

28. If 5 or 6 people who know each other want to trade food & there's no money

changing hands it's not a "business".. This the part of where she charges a membership fee and runs it like a business that;s getting her into trouble..

If it;s a business, she has to follow the rules.. can't have it both ways.

[Odin2005]

103. "Food Safety" = excuse for our Corporatist government to destroy small farmers.

The Big Guys want EVERYTHING.

[FedUpWithIt All]

112. Honestly, have you ever actually seen footage of commercial food production?

Try it sometime.

Then visit a local farm.

Better yet, visit both. The smell will probably affect your decision.


Diseased and dying, unnatural, animals wallowing in their own waste, as well as the waste of tens of thousands of other sickly animals. After which they are loaded into small containers with even more sick and dying animals to be transported to a butchering facility where their stress hormone saturated bodies are eviscerated alive, again covering them in their waste. Contaminated meat is then sent off to be bathed in ammonia, shipped over many miles and days to several different locations before it even reaches a supermarket where it will sit for some time under less than ideal conditions.

This is preferred? A great many major food corporations were forced to recall food over the past few years. Maybe the FDA would be serve us better if they actually prevented the contamination in those places that supply food to the many.

[Recursion]

25. It's always been a two-edged sword with food regulation

On the one hand, I'm glad we don't have (as many) pieces of slaughterhouse workers in meat as in Upton Sinclair's day.

On the other hand, regulations have consistently been used by big food processing/agri companies to drive smaller competitors out of business.

Personally, I love raw milk and I live in a state that keeps harrassing the people who (legally) run cow shares. While Monsanto and ADM keep destroying the world's environment and economies. It's irritating.

[Starry Messenger]

22. For once I agree with Lance.

The rules exist for a reason. There are some "small farmers" who are trying to do the same things as charter schools, removing important safeguards and rules. Buyer beware on the "slow food" movement. Sometimes these "innovative" ideas can be stalking horses for free market agendas.

[Odin2005]

104. The reason they exist is to drive small farmers out of business.

[LiberalFighter]

16. State of California is creating this mess. Not the feds.

[tsuki]

21. They should not be allowed to raid and confiscate without telling you the reason.

"While no one will say officially what the purpose of this latest raid was, aside from being part of an investigation in progress,"

An investigation into what?

[SoCalDem]

29. They are probably looking for people who may be reselling it n/t

[burnsei sensei]

31. They regulate the commerce of people and

small families but refuse to regulate the corporations.
This is pure hypocrisy.
I hope a huge, huge alternative market is formed for all kinds of goods and services in this country-- provided from small organization and persons to persons.
Trade is for everyone.
Damn the corporate elite.

[jmowreader]

56. Okay...then let's get campaign finance reform in here

And by "reform" I mean "let's get rid of campaign contributions from EVERYONE." No more private, corporate or union contributions. Instead, total public financing of all campaigns--we give you $500,000 before the primary and $1 million after you win the primary, or whatever the number will be, you spend all you want, but if you run out of money before the election you don't advertise.

The reason we don't have effective regulation of any industry is, any industry that doesn't want to be regulated buys itself enough congressmen to deal with the problem. Get corporate money out of our campaigns, and we'll have a much better country.

[Odin2005]

105. "Regulations" are only for us little people.

[Overseas]

33. So let's see.... BP can police itself but these farms deserve to be raided?

I guess the corporate brutality never stops-- lobbyists push the draconian rules on small businesses so their clients will have more total control and government agents will be forced to do their bidding.

[glitch]

42. Sounds about right. Or, far right. nt

[Downtown Hound]

35. Police=Corporate Terrorist Thug Army

When was the last time Goldman Sachs got raided? Or BP? Or Halliburton?

Commit crimes against humanity and you get a special dinner at the White House. Grow your own food and expect a visit from the Corporate Terrorist Thug Army (police).

[Dawson Leery]

63. The uniform represents a pure farce.

The uniform represents those who work for the powerful. That is the way it has always been.

[The Midway Rebel]

37. Grandma Crabtree gave our family raw milk from her cows.

The cows were trained. She'd hike up her skirt, squat down with a bucket and they would line up. She'd fill a bucket with pale yellow, thick n'creamy, raw milk lickety-split. We'd cart it up to her kitchen, let the cream rise and pasteurize it on the stove. It helped get us through mom's travails as a single parent of four kids. If not for that milk, we'd have had none or worse, drank powdered milk. None of us got sick. Lucky I guess.

My dad was the youngest of 14 kids and family lore says that during the Great Depression Granpa A always kept a milking cow in his backyard in what was then the suburbs of Louisville, KY. All my aunts and uncles survived.

I know raw milk products can be very dangerous though.

Lucky for me, here near KC, we have this:

http://www.shattomilk.com/

Close as you can get from the grocery store.

[hedgehog]

53. WIth raw milk, you're depending on the health of the herd and the

skill and integrity of the farmer. Pasteurized milk covers a lot of sins.
One question few people ever get around to asking is this: if raw milk in commerce was so much better than pasteurized milk, why did pasteurized milk become so popular in the first place?

Another example of why we got to where we are: check out the weird regulations for selling milk in NYC. A lot of kids were being killed by milk when those regs went into effect.

[The Midway Rebel]

59. Safety no doubt but also flavor.

Pastuerized and homoginized.

Milk from cows eating weeds can taste kind of funky and even have funky colors.

[hedgehog]

55. I get our milk in glass from Byrne Dairy,

but milk from a single farm?
Boy,that's what I call luxury!

We also get yogurt from Wake Robin farm - better than ice cream!

http://www.wakerobinfarm.org/products.html

I haven't seen their milk for sale this far north.

[The Midway Rebel]

58. Their cheeses looks good!

Shatto just started selling ice cream and some cheese too. Their milk makes the best maocha latte's. At Chrstimas time they have the most awesome eggnog! Nothing like cold milk in a glass bottle!

[jmowreader]

57. Grandma Crabtree did NOT give you raw milk!

"We'd cart it up to her kitchen, let the cream rise and pasteurize it on the stove." Raw milk isn't pasteurized, and that's the problem: if the cow has a disease you haven't detected yet, the disease organisms are going into you.

[The Midway Rebel]

60. Yeah, she did

Sometimes, we'd take it home and pastuerize it ourselves and then mix it with the powdered milk to try and homogonize the flavors and make it last the whole week.

[jmowreader]

77. That's not what you said

And it's not what you drank. People who drink "raw milk" are drinking it unpasteurized. You either pasteurized it at grandma's house (the way I read your post, you pasteurized it all there) or went home and did it, but at some point between her cow and your mouth there was pasteurization.

[The Midway Rebel]

80. I never said I drank raw milk.

I never said I drank raw milk or suggested that anyone should. In fact, I clearly stated we pasteurized it on the stove. Thanks for helping me make that point extra clear.

:hi:

[mr clean]

65. USA! USA! .... wait a minute....

[northernlights]

68. I think it's about 3 things:

"these groups generally avoid obtaining retail and public health licenses required of retailers that sell to the general public."

1. State and local revenues are way down. They want the licensing fees. There probably has been an increase in speeding tickets too. They'll make an example of, and probably fine, a few to push the rest to get their licenses.

2. Health concerns -- raw milk is fine if it is *fresh* and properly stored, but once the farmer starts distributing it through co-ops and such they lose control over the freshness and storage, and the potential does exist for serious bacterial infections as a result.

3. And given the locations, it may also be about protecting big agribiz.

[h8okra]

70. k&r n/t

[handmade34]

75. welcome to DU

:hi:

[Ready4Change]

76. At what point can this be considered harassment?

I can see taking samples of the products. For example, to test for drug or alcohol content, etc...

But computers, again? In todays automated world, that can shut a business down. How do you know what orders you need to fulfill? Who owes you, and who do you owe? Taxes, for cripes sake.

And with no reason given? Don't they present a warrant? Doesn't that give cause?

Either something is extremely rotten (either in law enforcement or at this farm), or we aren't getting the whole story here.

[upi402]

82. The Unholy Alliance: Monsanto, Dupont & Obama

http://us.mc1138.mail.yahoo.com/mc/welcome?.gx=1&.tm=1279341976&.rand=chgput727eegv#_pg=showMessage&sMid=5&fid=%2540S%2540Search&filterBy=&squery=&vp=1&.rand=981632241&midIndex=5&mid=1_5803_1_125519_0_AHWniGIAAI16TDZN9wApaAQpQL8&fromId=[e-mail]&clean&m=1_3534_1_98575_0_AG%2BniGIAAUMdTDlBvwVrPEyTQ%2B4,1_4663_1_105744_0_AGuniGIAAGV%2FTDiAjwXTPk1CLnI,1_5803_1_125519_0_AHWniGIAAI16TDZN9wApaAQpQL8,1_7186_1_138072_0_AG2niGIAADMgTDYVLA6aQw1qy2I,1_8253_1_166676_0_AGaniGIAAT1YTDOY0QwEiRQHrhY,&sort=date&order=down&startMid=0&.jsrand=3577607

from; Organic Consumers Association


Also, Food Inc (a must see)

[WranglerRog]

83. Small Dairy farmer

I own a grade A licensed dairy. I milk sheep (greatest milk in the world) for cheese making and consumption in Missouri. Raw milk laws vary state by state. Missouri's are relatively liberal. I can sell raw milk (without a license) from my farm or I can deliver it directly to the end customer. I CANNOT sell raw milk at a farmers market. I could if I got specifically licensed for that however it would have to be in approved containers and would be cost prohibitive. Personally I don't have a problem with inspections or regulations for this industry. The raids seem a bit of an overkill but milk can be easily contaminated if not processed correctly.

Now as far as raw milk. Yes, I much prefer it. Especially sheep milk as it is naturally homogenized and has a slightly sweet taste to it. Nutritionally, it's head and shoulders above all other milks except water buffalo.

[Vinca]

84. Maybe if Sharon laces her farm-grown food with deadly chemicals,

like the grocery store, they'll leave her alone.:sarcasm:

[KansDem]

88. "...to challenge private food organizations over whether they should be licensed as food retailers."

:crazy:

And what PepsiCo, General Mills, Kellogg's, Sara Lee, H.J. Heinz Co, and Monsanto provide is "food?"

[BrklynLiberal]

89. K&R

[skyounkin]

90. Christ- they took the kids COMP?!!

Three of them?!!

That is totally fucked!

This has got to end.

[varelse]

93. This is harassment

it's hard not to suspect the influence of corruption in the timing and target selection of these raids.

[branders seine]

94. welcome to the corporate states of america

[Dreamer Tatum]

97. So, to recap, the FDA and all of its regulations is bad. Until it's good.

The spin is incredible. Stunning.

How do you get it to spin the other way? Just have one kid croak from e-coli from bad milk or eggs.

[unlegendary]

99. Unpasturized milk?

This sounds to much like the case of endangering the public at large more than greedy corporations.
Pasteurization was standardized in the US many years ago as a PUBLIC HEALTH concern and NOT a greedy grab by corporate barons, but you can dispute the merits or pasteurization all you like and in every single case when you're selling these products to the public and they aren't standardized for quality you'll lose.
But hey, it's great if you want to serve unpasteurized milk and cheese to your family, but please don't try to slide it onto me as a consumer and expect no repercussions.
If you want to drink gasoline I'm all for it. Go ahead and I sure won't stop you, but I'm not drinking it.
Maybe you want to say, it's more nutrient rich food and all that nonsense, but in nearly every court in every county they will tell you that you CANNOT sell these products to an unsuspecting public.

[Shining Jack]

100. K&R

I feel like Alice in Corporateland.That's insane.

[Odin2005]

101. The Pro-Corporate Facists HATE small businesses.

[Butch350]

106. Big Bro. is one step closer to totally controlling our lives!

[jp11]

110. Nice to know the government is on top of 'small farms' cause there sure as sheep ain't nothing

untoward going on at factory farms or big farms like animal abuse, unsanitary conditions, abuse of chemicals/antibiotics, etc.

[immune]

111. Somebody tell me this isn't true

http://www.treeoflife.nu/gabriel-cousens-m-d/activism-outreach/bill-510/