Boy Scout to outfit 50 in back-to-school drive (and an estimated 8,000 from others)

[The Straight Story]

Boy Scout to outfit 50 in back-to-school drive

Matt Tolliver stood in his Grove City garage amid the neatly stacked weapons for this autumn's assault on poverty. "I was looking for an idea, and I wanted something that would affect a lot of people in my community," he said Monday.

Until this year, Tolliver had never met Betty Kletrovets, the Grove City woman who has directed the Tom Fennessy Back-to-School Project for the past 10 years, providing school supplies and backpacks to thousands of needy central Ohio children in the name of the late Dispatch columnist Tom Fennessy.

Tolliver, 16, explained to Betty that he was working toward his Eagle Scout rank and would like to try to gather enough school supplies and backpacks to outfit 50 children.

"I was impressed," Kletrovets said. "Matt had it planned out well."

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT


http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/08/04/boy-scout-to-outfit-50-in-back-to-school-drive.html?sid=101

[Bluebear]

1. That's nice. Boy Scouts of America is a homophobic discriminatory organization.

[MrsMatt]

2. So, by association, Matt Tolliver is

homophobic and discriminatory? Is that your point?

[ThomCat]

7. At the very least, he's heard about the controversy and been

taught that it's okay to discriminate.

It's very hard to avoid if you're in the boy scouts for a while and attend any of the large events.

So, yes, he probably is homophobic and discriminatory.

[Brickbat]

8. Wow.

Just...wow.

[ThomCat]

11. So, does this mean you approve of organizations teaching

bigotry against gays and atheists? :shrug:

That is exactly what the boy scouts do.

It isn't a passive thing. It is very active. Boy scouts know that gays and Atheists aren't allowed to join, and they know all about how big a fight it been. So they hear the BSA defense of their bigotry.

[Brickbat]

13. No, it doesn't mean that at all.

It means that I'm amazed that you're willing to judge this person just like that.

Their policies are taught actively in some areas. They're taught passively in others. In some areas it's not mentioned at all. Which doesn't mean it's a problem, but it doesn't mean that every Boy Scout is a homophobic athiest-hater, either.

[ThomCat]

15. It is a problem.

If you accept an organization that Actively discriminates, and you are willing to make excuses for their bigotry, rationalizing that even though they discriminate everywhere, somehow they aren't bigoted enough everywhere for you to consider them a problem, then that says more about you than me.

If you are willing to see kids joining an actively bigoted organization, taught by an organization so dedicated to bigotry that they went all the way to the Supreme Court to sustain their right to be bigots, and you don't have a problem with that, that says more about you than me.

This organization publicly defends their right to exclude gays and atheists everywhere. They do it every day. They do it in public meetings and private conversations. Their members talk about it. The public talks about it. The scouts talk about. It's not a secret. And people get passionate about it. If you really think the Scouts aren't picking up on that, and learning that, and internalising that, then you haven't even spoken to any of those scouts. That's naive, and again, it says more about you than me.

[Brickbat]

19. Noted.

[NutmegYankee]

44. Frankly, it says more about the Mormons than kids.

The BSA came to rely on funding from the Mormons, and they were threatened with black-listing of they didn't comply on the exclusions. Sadly, trashing the entire BSA makes the magic underpants crowd cheer.

[ThomCat]

47. The BSA didn't have to embrace bigotry.

Is that the only choice? Support the BSA or Mormons? Sorry, I don't buy that. I won't accept that it's either one bigotry or a worse one.

[NutmegYankee]

48. The BSA would have lost so much funding as to endanger the org

Sorry that doesn't fit into your simplistic analysis.

[ThomCat]

51. So you think that money is a valid reason to embrace bigotry?

Thanks. That's good to know. :eyes:

[NutmegYankee]

52. Reasonable people understand it was blackmail.

Reasonable people don't accuse every person in an organization of bigotry because of the decisions of one level. Many councils do not ban gays or atheists while some do. I was a scout in one council that did not ban them, and we fought internally to oppose the National Councils fight to allow the bans. I still blame the Mormons (and a few other denominations) for threatening to kick scouts out of their churches and ban membership in scouts if they didn't fight to ban gays and atheists. You chose to ignore this in declaring all scouts to be bigots

Well, I'm an Eagle Scout! DU rules be damned - Are you going to call me an anti-gay and anti-atheist bigot?

[ThomCat]

56. If any one council and the troops in it are quietly accepting

Atheist and Gay members, good for them. That's awesome. But those members all have to stay in the closet because if the national body finds out not only do they get kicked out, but your council could get its staff booted out too.

You can blame the mormons. Go ahead. But the BSA changed the rules.
The BSA embraced the rules.
The BSA defended those rules all the way up to the Supreme Court.
The BSA defended those rules to the United Way and to funding organizations and city councils and community groups coast to coast arguing that they were not only the right thing to do, but necessary in order to protect kids.

That doesn't sound like being blackmailed into doing something they didn't want to do.

I won't talk about you directly. Only you know what you think or feel about LGBT people. Of course I hope you put even a fraction of this much energy into helping LGBT rights.

[NutmegYankee]

58. If only you knew.

I have been thrown out of a Christian Campus group, blacklisted by some former friends, and dis-invited to a few meetings because I proudly have argued for and fully supported full marriage rights for Gays. As a citizen of the Nutmeg State, one of the few that allows gay marriage, I worked to fight the ballot question in 2008 to call another Constitutional Convention, which was widely understood to be for the purpose of banning gay marriage. Our Democratic Legislature wouldn't allow a question like Maine's to ever get on the ballot.

[ThomCat]

60. Good. I'm glad you are an ally.

Then I will agree to disagree with you about the BSA.

You and I won't agree about them. I refuse to support any organization that has as part of its purpose the ongoing bigotry against Atheists and gays. But my problem isn't with you. It's with the BSA.

[NutmegYankee]

61. Understood.

[JerseygirlCT]

71. The troop that has been located at our church for many, many

years came to us a few years back with a proposal to expand their activities.

I kept bringing up the BSA's awful policies re gays and atheists when we met to decide. I was happily surprised at the number of people who came up to me later in agreement.

The troop leader insisted that THEY never discriminated and would not do so. We said: "Fine. But not fine enough. We'd like a letter from you to the national organization saying you would not be following their dictates on these matters and why."

They declined; we declined. The troop leader came in very angrily to argue with our pastor, claiming we'd unfairly "politicized" the whole thing.

Yeah, don't think we were the ones politicizing things.

I just wish I'd had enough oomph to persuade the leadership that not only should we not support expanded programs, but we should not allow any so long as the discrimination remained national policy.

[oneshooter]

77. To do so would have meant the loss of their charter. n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

102. If the leader truly disagreed with the national organization

on those issues, I don't think we were at all wrong to ask that he do more than give it lip service. The only change that will happen in BSA will come from more and more troops and leaders saying they will not participate in this discrimination.

He was simply trying to play us - telling us one thing; the national organization another.

[KittyWampus]

21. You've no doubt been told before that not all troops peddle that hate.

[ThomCat]

22. Yes. I know.

But the organization as a whole does. And the organization as a whole is pretty effective at exposing scouts to hate nation wide even that hatred doesn't take root everywhere.

So while there are troops that are very good troops, and there are scouts that are very good people, I won't give scouting a pass on their bigotry.

By the time they reach Eagle Scout one of the things we are supposed to praise them for is their maturity and ability to make decisions for themselves. In fact, that is the purpose of things like this charity project. Well, then he can certainly be held responsible for choosing to remain a members of a well known bigoted organization too.

[hack89]

25. Are the scouts who are "very good people" still homophobic bigots? nt

[ThomCat]

29. At the very least they've chosen to remain members of a

bigoted organization, and they have to take responsibility for that. So, so some extent, yes.

You don't get a free pass if you personally choose to voluntarily remain a member of an organization you know insists on having bigoted membership rules and insists on enforcing and defending them. That makes you voluntarily part of the problem.

[hack89]

63. You really are bitter, aren't you?

we are talking about kids and local parents - not some monolithic organization bent on brainwashing kids.

Why don't you take off the hair shirt? We get it - you are more moral then us.

[ThomCat]

64. Nice way to blow off the importance of discriminatory organizations.

A whole lot of organizations that had good families and kids in them were discriminatory to black people.

Would you have been so accepting then?

Either standing up for equality is important, or it's not. Either you hold organizations accountable, or you don't.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hack89]

82. So your solution to bigotry is to shit all over a kid

who went out of his way to make the world a better place. Your hatred has blinded you. Your moral compass is broken.

[Bluebear]

83. So a gay talking about a discrimination is full of "hatred" & their compass is broken?

Wow.

[hack89]

100. He labeled a young kid as a homophobic bigot

didn't know the kid, could care less that the kid expended considerable effort to help those less fortunate than him. Didn't matter - because the kid was a Boy Scout he felt he could smear him with broad brush hatred and bigotry.

You really think that bigotry and hatred can be defeated by bigotry and hatred?

[JerseygirlCT]

103. How do you see anything changing if not for

people at the local level insisting on it?

Or perhaps you don't think a change is necessary?

I've had friends who felt the best way to reform the BSA was from the inside. Good enough - but that has to be followed with action, not just excuses.

[hack89]

105. The scouts I work with all the time

are good kids - polite and without a bigoted bone in their body. Their parents are good working class people - strongly democratic and pro-union. That's why the "fundie Boy Scout" meme strikes me as an overly simplistic broad brush smear. These kids are not being trained to hate gays by their parents or neighbors. They don't get an annual "lets hate queers" lecture. They are into camping and public service - that's all.

There is no push to change Boy Scouts here because gays in the Boy Scouts is not an issue here. Same for the atheists. We are tolerant here in Rhode Island - I suspect that many turn a blind eye to national Boy Scout policies on those issues. You would certainly never see a witch hunt to ferret out gays and atheists - people just don't care.

Not everybody's life is a never ending crusade - life is hard enough as it is.

[redwitch]

72. Gays in the military.

Should they all quit? (Actually I'd be ok with that). I have friends whose son is in scouting. They are gay. They believe in quietly living their lives and creating change from within.

[ThomCat]

73. The Military has to be a different matter

because that is the organization for National Defense. Patriotism requires that you hold the military in higher regard than a scouting organization.

A lot of LGBT people want to serve their country, and should have every right to do so. So I don't see any valid comparison between that and the boy scouts.

[PacerLJ35]

108. The military is also a public institution

So the rules don't apply the same to a private organization...however that is an ongoing debate. Not trying to defend the BSA, just saying any comparison between the Scouts and the military isn't going to be a very good one (I'm military and my kids are scouts...yet I support gay rights...and no, I don't think I'm living a life of hypocrisy).

[MrsMatt]

10. I really like you ThomCat, but I have to say

I feel that sentiment is beneath you.

It's really no different than tarring all citizens of the United States with the same attitudes the US government espoused during the Bush years. We have no idea from the article what Tolliver's beliefs are, and I think it's intolerant to ascribe such horrible labels without proof.

[ThomCat]

12. I think defending any organization that actively promotes bigotry

and teaches it to our children is beneath people who claim to be allies of LGBT people, and claim to be in favor of full civil rights.

Either you are in favor of equal rights or you aren't. Either you support LGBT equality or you don't.

[MrsMatt]

14. ThomCat, I am not defending the organization

I'm defending the child.

We don't know what is in his heart - until we do, I think we should just applaud his actions. I believe it to be unfair to judge someone solely based on their associations.

FWIW, I'm fully on board for equal rights for all.

[ThomCat]

17. Not in this thread you're not.

This thread is not just about one person. You cannot talk about a scout, especially someone who has gone all the way to the Eagle Scout level without talking about the Boy Scouts of America.

This is very much about the scouts.

[MrsMatt]

20. I guess we'll just have to disagree - n/t

[PavePusher]

89. How many people do you need to swing that broad brush? n/t

[RetroLounge]

24. It's quite different

You can easily join or quit the BSA

But you knew that...

RL

[MrsMatt]

31. Sorry - it was the first analogy I could think of. Obviously.

it wasn't the best one. Have to admit, that joining or quitting didn't even factor in my reasoning.

So I may have "known it" deep down, but it seriously didn't cross my mind.

My point was that I felt it was unfair to judge someone solely on one aspect of their lives. Nothing more.

Peace.

[Radical Activist]

26. I spent years as a Boy Scout and became Eagle.

I attended many large events. I never once heard anyone say anything about homosexuality.

I see the organization moving rightward and destroying itself with its stand for discrimination. But, I don't believe its fair to make assumptions about everyone in scouting.

[ThomCat]

36. That's amazing!

Most people I knew heard about it and knew about it as early as webelos at scouting events.

I've also rarely ever heard the Scout Oath and Law discussed and explained, even among older boys, without the issues coming up.

"On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight."

That whole "do do my duty to god" and "morally straight" part are the basis of the exclusions of atheists and gays, and when discussion the oath and law with older boys I OFTEN heard it turn into discussions about Atheists and Gays. If you didn't, well, you were in a very different type of troop.

[Radical Activist]

43. There was no reason for it to come up at scout meetings.

Like most troops, mine was sponsored by the church I grew up in. Any sermonizing about homosexuality was done at church, not at scouts. And the council-wide events included scouts from many different sponsor organizations who all had their own beliefs, so controversial subjects like that were not discussed. Why would they be? We were there to camp and light fires.

I may have forgotten something. If anything was ever said it didn't make enough of an impression that I remember it coming up.

I get the impression that things have changed lately. If the national BSA continues to hold their stand for discrimination I think it will be nothing but a small, marginalized group of conservative church troops. It's sad.

[ThomCat]

50. You may be right.

The BSA lost a lot of funding because of their bigotry. The united way stopped funding them in a lot of places. A whole lot of public venues stopped giving the BSA free use of their buildings. It suddenly became a lot more expensive for the BSA to operate in a lot of locations.

A lot of us hoped that the public messages they were getting from all of this would help turn them around and end the discrimination. But unfortunately, the BSA has insisted that they will NEVER change the anti-gay and anti-atheist message. There is a virulent religious passion to it.

The BSA may someday be limited to a small group of conservative churches.

But right now they still have an undeserved reputation as being good for boys, and a lot of people nation wide don't think twice about sending their boys to the boy scouts. Their level of bigotry isn't common knowledge. A whole lot of families really don't think it is important, or don't think it will affect their sons, or worse, they think it is a good thing.

So the BSA still has a HUGE number of troups. And a Growing number of troops in African American communities last I heard. So the day when they are limited to a few conservative churches is a long way away.

They have a very large captive audience to teach their bigotry to hundreds of thousands of boys nation wide, and that's a damned scary thing to those of us who are likely to face that bigotry when those boys grow up. :(

[NutmegYankee]

46. I also am an Eagle scout and never heard discussions on Gays as a kid.

Scouting was about teaching skills for life and learning about the outdoors. It was only when I was an adult leader and the cases came up that we heard about the issues, and my council opposed the bans.

The place I did confront bigotry was in college when the evangelical campus Christian group I was a part of threw me out after my defense of a gay leader of the Student Government Association. I flat out told them their behavior was contrary to Christianity, and was shown the door. Happily, I found a more liberal Christian group in which I fit in better anyhow.

* Edit to clarify that this did come up in later years while I was an assistant scoutmaster.

[PavePusher]

85. Nice assumptions.

It would work better if you had proof of your allegations about the individual.

Or just continue to feel free to say hateful things without evidence.

[Bluebear]

30. My point is EXACTLY what I said. The Boy Scouts are a discriminatory homophobic organization.

It bears repeating.

[The Straight Story]

53. And the dems in power are as well - DADT and gay marriage. WHY would you vote for them?

But I am sure you did. So why did you give Obama a pass and vote for him but this lone kid who is helping others you are all upset about?

Did you vote for a person who was just as bigoted as you are saying this kid is? If so, please tell us all here why you went to bat for him and yet are kicking this kid's ass.

And will you vote for Obama next election? If so - please let us know why.

[Contrary1]

55. +1

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

81. Boy Scouts of America is a homophobic discriminatory organization.

That's all I said. I never even mentioned this kid, let alone "kick his ass", but you know that.

[WolverineDG]

3. So how's your back-to-school clothing drive going? nt

[Statistical]

5. +1. Organizations are what you make of them.

The boy in the OP gained something from his experience and helped others at the same time.

[WolverineDG]

54. What gets me is this:

anytime there is a post about any organization that actually does something to help others (BSA projects, Salvation Army, Goodwill, Habitat for Humanity), detractors have to jump in & say what a rotten organization it is because of (fill in your own issue here) & how we're all horrible people for supporting that organization. Yet, for all the yelling & outrage, not one of them has ever pointed out an alternative, nationwide organization that does the same thing or gotten off their butts to form one.

I personally don't care for the conservative stances of these groups have, but with no alternative to give to, I'd rather donate to them than have poor people go without.

dg

[LostinVA]

6. +1

[Bluebear]

37. Oh well. "Organizations are what you make of them."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8951655&mesg_id=8951799

[ThomCat]

9. People need to be reminded that this organization FIGHTS for

the right to discriminate against gays and atheists. In some areas they are very incredibly outspoken about it, and they'll let you know in no uncertain terms that they don't want any "godless fag boys" corrupting their good kids.

I was in the Alpha Phi Omega fraternity that was formed by eagle scouts, and was officially affiliated with the boy scouts for years. APO split from the boy scouts over the issue of discrimination and became co-ed. Bigotry CANNOT be tolerated.

A lot of my ex-friends from my fraternity days came from the boy scouts, and many are scout leaders. We had frequent arguments over the boy scout discriminatory policies, and it's what eventually ended our friendships. I couldn't remain friends with people who actively participated in an organization that discriminated. That meant they actively enforced the discrimination. They were the active agents of this bigotry.

I don't care what good stuff they do to try to make it palatable. They are still bigots.

[AlabamaLibrul]

16. +1

[digitaln3rd]

18. Really?

I was in the Boy Scouts as a youth and never once heard anything discriminatory.

You're right, though. Children are much better off in street gangs rather then spending time after school working to better themselves and their communities.

[Bluebear]

33. Take your passive aggressive snark elsewhere. The Boys Scouts FIGHT for the right to discriminate.

[The Straight Story]

28. No good deed goes unpunished. BTW, did you vote for Obama?

And will you do so again?

[Bluebear]

32. Of course I voted for Obama. What's your insinuation?

[The Straight Story]

34. What has been his stand on gays? (nt)

[Bluebear]

35. I would have thought you would have paid more attention. I don't have time to fill you in right now.

[The Straight Story]

38. So you won't be voting for him next election on principle?

at least you are being consistent.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

42. I just said as much beneath you here. Fucking unreal.

[Bluebear]

41. Tryin' to pick a fight are ya? What's YOUR views on the homophobia of the BSA?

Since that IS the topic of thread.

Whatever, TSS. Carry on, it's only people's lives.

[The Straight Story]

45. My view?

it is wrong. But that does not make the good works of people within such an org bad.

Obama has come out against gay marriage, for which I think he is wrong. But that does not mean he cannot do good works for others.

I don't like a lot of the views of a lot of people - but that does not mean I judge the people within a group as a whole.

My sister is a fundie, but she has worked her butt off for people and done a lot to help them, even if they are not part of her faith.

My brother was a scout, my dad was a scout master back in the day - and they have done a lot to help others. My best friend is gay and no one in my family has ever treated him any different than anyone else - and even my dad, a fundie, would pitch a bitch about the scouts not letting him in.

The BSA is wrong on this issue, but that does not mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can do good and still belong to an organization that has bigoted views - kind of like being a member of the dem party and having a president who is against gay marriage and is dragging his feet on DADT.

You have to stop and see the good sometimes within people. I am a Christian myself, and folks here bash people like me all the time - but there are many out there like me who do not adhere to the fundie ways.

YOU know NOTHING about this kid and his personal views. For all you know he could be in the closet. he stepped up to help others when they needed it, and the only thing you take away from this story is that he is a boy scout. I happen to work for one of the companies who helped make all this happen, and I donated my time and money to help those kids who most needed it. No one had a litmus test, no one asked while donating whether or not the kids being helped were gay, christian, etc. We just worked to help others.

[MrsMatt]

49. well stated

you were able to articulate much of what I was feeling - albeit, with no BSA experience in my family.

[Bluebear]

79. Try being someone who the Boy Scouts don't want to let IN & come back and comment.

[Stargazer09]

86. So you not getting into the Boy Scouts

Gives you a reason to hate every single Boy Scout in the country? Isn't that stereotyping? Isn't that being intolerant?

Or is it different because it's your viewpoint that is the "right" one?

[Bluebear]

90. Who said I "hate" every boy scout? Yeah, me not getting in is irritating & you tolerate it.

And yes, equality for gays IS the "right" viewpoint.

[Stargazer09]

93. Sure

But you said that I support BSA's intolerance simply because my sons are involved. How is that not "hatred" of all Boy Scouts?

[Bluebear]

95. I wouldn't let my kids in an organization that excluded blacks or Jews, for instance.

My children wouldn't be part of any restricted organization. That is how you tolerate it. It hardly equates me "hating" all Boy Scouts.

[MrsMatt]

98. I'm female - don't think the boy scouts would let me join. n/t

[Bluebear]

101. ha ha good one

:eyes:

[Stargazer09]

59. +1

I don't agree with the official BSA stance on atheism and homosexuality. However, the organization as a whole isn't the evil monster that some people seem to make it out to be.

I admit that I was stunned to see such an immediate negative reaction to this story. That teenager did a lot of work and helped a lot of kids stricken with poverty. To me, it doesn't make sense to bash him for his good deeds, simply because the head of the BSA are bigots. Regardless of this boy's personal views, or the views of his leaders, his actions deserve to be celebrated.

[Bluebear]

80. 1) Nobody "bashed" the boy. 2) 'the organization as a whole isn't the evil monster ' =

YOU tolerate bigotry and homophobia. And that's stunning, sorry.

[Stargazer09]

84. Uh, no, I don't, actually

You are assuming that I tolerate something that I don't. That says a LOT about you. Didn't anyone teach you not to ASSUME anything?

Organizations such as the Boy Scouts are not going to be changed simply because you hate them. They are going to be changed from WITHIN. I am not the only progressive mom with sons in BSA. As more and more boys grow up with open minds and a love for Scouting, they will be the ones who change the organization. It isn't going to happen overnight. It may not even happen in my lifetime, as sad as that makes me. But it will happen.

Hatred such as yours is just as virulent as that intolerance you perceive from the current BSA leadership. It doesn't do anyone any good.

[Bluebear]

88. 'Hatred such as yours' - Yes. always blame the victim.

Don't try to see things from the point of view of someone who is not allowed to join. Fact is, your kids are in the organization and that means you tolerate their policies. You even admit the change probably won't happen in your lifetime, but you're content to have children in the Scouts... and THEN blame a gay person because WE "hate" them. No, there is no "hatred" of gays from the Boy Scouts themselves. Whatever, lady.

[Stargazer09]

92. LOL

Like I said, I think that change will come from within. I'm not blaming any victims. I'm just stating a fact.

My sons are in Scouts because I want them to be prepared for the future, and to honor my late father, who was an Eagle Scout.

If the group that they belong to started to act bigoted or hateful, I would pull my sons out of the program until we moved to a more progressive place. But that fact is, they aren't doing anything like that. No preaching, no hatred, no politics. They are simply trying to teach the boys how to take care of our planet and be good citizens.

Whatever, yourself.

[Brickbat]

4. Good for him! Well done, Matt!

[RetroLounge]

23. Maybe his Eagle Scout project should have been GLBT rights?

but of course, the organization would not have approved of that.

I was a scout, my brothers were too. My dad was scoutmaster. In the 60s and 70s.

The organization was not overrun by fundy nutballs then. It is now.

I would never let my son join, and that is sad, but it is the fault of a bigotted, discriminatory organization.

So good for Matt for helping school kids, I guess, but he should know better and he doesn't.

Maybe a Eagle project focusing on lowering suicide rates of gay teens? Now that I would applaud.

RL

[hack89]

27. No fundy nutballs here in Rhode Island

just good, hardworking people that support both the Boy Scouts and gay rights.

[ThomCat]

39. If so, then I hope they are mounting a fight to overturn the BSA's

discriminatory practices.

[hack89]

62. I think they are more concerned with raising their kids.

not everybody's life is a never ending crusade - many are simply satisfied to raise good kids in difficult times.

[ThomCat]

65. Then the BSA gets a never-ending pass to keep discriminating.

And gay and atheist kids keep getting discriminated against.

I wonder how many people here care about that.

[The Straight Story]

66. Atheism is a choice, being gay is not

I am not sure why some people keep combining the two.

[ThomCat]

67. Because the BSA discriminates against both.

It doesn't matter if Atheism is a choice. Religion is a choice too. But we get rightly pissed off when anyone discriminates against someone for practicing their faith. We should get just as pissed off when anyone discriminates against anyone for having a lack of faith.

[The Straight Story]

69. As a Christian here I can tell you

that folks on the 'progressive' side of the aisle have no problem attacking, judging, and stereotyping people of faith (well, unless your faith is jewish or muslim or buddhist, etc). They can justify it by saying 'you make a choice when it comes to what you believe or do not believe'.

Discrimination is alive and well on the left, which is really sad to me.

[ThomCat]

70. Christians face stereotyping, but Jews, Muslims and Buddhists don't?

:wtf:

Are you for real? Seriously?

Tell me that was sarcasm!

That is one of the dumbest damned things I have ever heard in all my life. Christians face some minor level of stereotyping and judgment from people. But it is a small tiny fraction of what people of ANY other faith face. It is a tiny fraction of what Atheists face. It is a tiny fraction of people of ANY OTHER GROUP faces. Usually coming from fundamentalist and even mainstream Christians!

I can't believe you could even seriously post that!

[The Straight Story]

74. I was talking about HERE on DU

You can tell me with a straight face they don't? Really? Come on now, we all know that you can say something about Christians here but if you said the same things about Jews or Muslims you would be called a hater and bigoted.

Go ahead and start a post about Christian folks in government and how they want to take over America - then post the exact same post about Jews or Muslims and see how fast it is pulled and you are called a hater.

If you don't see a double standard you are not looking.

And speaking of double standards - Obama can be against gay marriage and still get the votes of people who call themselves progressives. How does that work?

[ThomCat]

76. I'm talking about here on DU too.

Still calling out LGBT people because they vote for Obama? How is it that you can get away with that.

Calling out DUers is supposed to be against the rules. Calling out DUers because they, OMG, might vote for Obama? How Horrible!

That really sounds like you are repeatedly violating the rules, and doing it only because people are Gay.

:wtf:

If people stand up for LGBT rights, and then chose to hold their noses and vote for Obama as the lesser of two evils, that's none of your damned business. Is it?

Why do you feel the need to follow LGBT people around and harass us about it? What the hell is your problem with LGBT people?

[The Straight Story]

78. Um...what the hell are you talking about?

I was merely making the point that if you are going to dump on some guy who is a scout and is helping out some poor folks that at least you could be consistent and do the same with Obama.

Lesser of two evils? How about - you have a kid, who happens to be a scout, helping out some other kids who are poor and folks are kicking his ass. You don't know him, did not VOTE for him and yet some see the need to bitch about what he is doing and mapping it to gay rights issues??? Shit. What the fuck does what he is doing have to do with gays at all????

Here we have a guy doing something positive for the community and some folks want to piss all over it because he also happens to be a scout. WTF is up with that?

This had nothing to do with gays. It was about a kid, who may well be gay (I don't know if he is or not, do you?), who stepped up to help people who needed it. Does everything have to be about a cause and tied to it?

Maybe you need to chill out and see things in a different light. I am all for gay rights, I hate the fact that gays can't marry, I think the boy scouts are fucked up and dumb as hell when it comes to gays, but shit dude - this kid did something really cool to help others. Do you want him to carry a cross for you or something?

Hell, he did more than I did on this whole project (and my company was directly involved in it). So his org. is bigoted and stupid, does that make what he did bad? What the hell did you do for the kids here needing supplies for school? I donated money and time - a lot less of both than that kid did.

I support gays, I hate that Obama does not support gay marriage, I think DADT is fucking evil. But damn - this kid did well by other kids who needed it the most. Give him some props.

[Odin2005]

75. Great, now are schools are being funded by militaristic homophobic bigots.

:puke:

[Stargazer09]

87. Actually

He was just trying to make sure that some kids who were too poor to have school supplies were able to get what they needed to succeed in school.

[Bluebear]

91. Boy Scouts of America is a homophobic discriminatory organization.

That's really not disputable.

[Stargazer09]

94. So don't join them

Welcome to ignore.

[Bluebear]

96. I can't join them, they won't have me. And you tolerate bigotry, ignoring me or not.

I'm on ignore now for being discriminated against, so you won't read this. But I wouldn't let my kids in an organization that excluded blacks or Jews, for instance.

My children wouldn't be part of any restricted organization. That is how you tolerate it. It hardly equates me "hating" all Boy Scouts. But if you can live with it, so be it.

And you make the stupid statement of telling me "So don't join, then" when I am not ALLOWED to. Please rethink that.

[Odin2005]

97. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000

:applause:

[proteus_lives]

99. I find it astonishing that so many choose to ignore the good deed this kid is doing.

I'm really disappointed.

[PacerLJ35]

106. Welcome to politics

...it's not about the individual deeds but fighting over ideologies...I'm disappointed too. My kids are scouts, and I support gay rights...they are good kids regardless of what you say.

[Pendrench]

104. This sounds like a great project...my son became a Life Scout this past weekend, so he needs

to start thinking about his Eagle project.

Tim

[PacerLJ35]

107. He's obviously an evil homophobic child if he's made it that far

I'm being sarcastic, by the way....good for your son! Mine are both Cub Scouts and they do a lot for their community.

[Pendrench]

110. Hi PacerLJ35 - Thanks for your kind words...he also went to the Jamboree a few weeks ago and had a

great time - although it was a bit hot, and he said the food wasn't all that good:)

Best wishes to you and your sons!

Tim

[PacerLJ35]

109. Good job

Putting some effort to help his area's needy children. Noble work. Hope he sees great success.