Grand Theft Auto.. Appropriate for a six year old?

[Fumesucker]

I've been debating with myself for some time now whether to ask this question or not and I've finally decided to go ahead..

A relative of mine has a six year old son that is close to obsessed with the video game Grand Theft Auto, I've watched it played quite a bit now and it's extremely violent.

The same six year old also plays a lot of another video game that is military in nature and also extremely violent and even more graphic than GTA but I'm not sure what the name of it is.

I have to admit that I don't care to see a child this young playing such graphically violent video games, I'm not sure if this says more about me or the parents of the child or just our culture in general.

[unhappycamper]

1. We gots to train the next generation of cannon fodder.

We're gonna be at war for the foreseeable future. :(


on edit to add: Desensitizing our children is necessary to keep the bucks flowing.

[DiverDave]

150. NO,NO,NO.

a thousand times NO!!

6 is just too freaking young.
Christ, it'll probably give him nightmares.

What made you even think about it?
My boys are 9 and 12 and they have NEVER played any "merder, death,kill" games..at least not here.

[Jamastiene]

210. This is probably THE post in this thread that needed

to be said more than anything else. It is the truth.

[WillParkinson]

2. I'm going with not appropriate

And share your concerns.

[Enrique]

3. as long as you don't let him drive

seriously, that's the biggest danger of GTA, encouraging bad driving. I've noticed it affecting my own driving, I'm not kidding.

[Greyhound]

18. That's true. Coming up on a traffic jam IRL after a couple hours of tearing trough the

streets of Liberty City or San Andreas, that sidewalk looks might tempting...
:evilgrin:

[Fumesucker]

39. If you don't like the way I drive then stay off the sidewalk..

I didn't need video games to teach me that, I've been riding motorcycles for forty plus years. :evilgrin:

[Greyhound]

46. You need to go to SoCal where the roads are (used to be) smooth and lane splitting is legal.

:rofl:

An aside; The first time I laid it down was on a country road outside Kennesaw.

[Diclotican]

192. Greyhound

Greyhound

True, but we know the difference, and we also know the consequenses if we do.. Even how tempting it is...

But, GTA IV is Fun, as GTA San Andreas was in its time:evilgrin:

Diclotican

[Greyhound]

200. I wonder if it will run under WINE?

The last windoze I use is 2kpro. Linux is just so much better in every way except for the gaming monopoly, and I can't plop down 3 bills for a PS3 (and even if I could, the step down in performance and graphics is too frustrating for me).

[Diclotican]

212. Greyhound

Greyhound

Not sure it wil work, but if you can "emulate" Linux to play a PC game, why not try it out... You have to patch the game up somewhat, as retail had the ability to really make even powerfull computers scream for more RAM... As the patches have coming, it have been better, and now the game is playable for others, without PCs screaming for more RAM...

But, it is verry clear that GTA IV, was for PS3, and not for Computers, who is bad, becouse the posibility for what GTA could have been on a PC console is amazing, to say at least.. Not to say what it could have been, if GTA IV had a functional type, like GTA SA had/have called SAMP, a little program, who made SA able to be played online, with other players and on dedicated servers.. GTA IV have a lot of posibilites when it came to this type of games.... Even tho it exist some sorts of mods, where you can play different sorts, like a cop, a firefighter and so one, this not near the "reality" a online type of games had made posibility... I hope GTA V, when it comes, have the ability to play on dedicated servers, like GTA SA made posible..

But again, you might try it out, as I belive Linux owners have the ability to tweak your programs more than regular "win users" are. its open source and therefore it is up to eatch Linux owners to do the tweaking as they se fit

Diclotican

[negativenihil]

4. game ratings

these games are rated M, and as such are not appropriate for a child of that age.

That said, this post seems fishy.

[Fumesucker]

5. Fishy how?

:shrug:

[negativenihil]

181. Fishy as in...

...are we being told the whole story?

I don't mean any disrespect, but a 6 year old having access to GTA and what i'm assuming is Call of Duty is either a gross lapse in parental judgment, or there's some part of this story that we're not being told.

Are these young parents? Are they simply not that bright?

Again - no disrespect towards the OP, this just reads like something out of a tabloid.

[Fumesucker]

196. Where do you live?

The parents are thirtyish and have a combined income of a little over $100,000 a year, I certainly wouldn't characterize either of them as stupid. There's a Wii, an XBox360 and a PS3 hooked up to a 50" or so Plasma screen..

If you don't live in the Bible Belt you really have no clue how a lot of people think down here, as I wrote to another poster I've spent almost all of my life down here and I still don't fathom many of the attitudes.

[YOY]

16. Fumesucker doen't "fish" or "troll"

He/She is a pretty reputable poster here.

Unlike myself. I'm a bastard.

[negativenihil]

182. my wording

probably could have been better, i did not mean to imply anyone was trolling

[pipi_k]

34. Huh. I never thought I'd see the day

when I would stick up for someone with whom I've had a few differences of opinion.

FS and I don't agree on everything, but I can assure you that his post isn't "fishy" in any way...

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

38. Thanks for that..

:hi:

:toast:

[pipi_k]

47. No prob....

:hi:

[davepc]

88. Rated M for Mature

The ESRB ratings aren't perfect, but they're a decent starting point.

I wouldn't let a 6 year old play a GTA game.

There are lots of games that are age appropriate that are still fun.

[Brickbat]

6. Six is young for extended periods of any video game.

But GTA and a shoot-'em-up war game aren't appropriate for that age, IMO.

[cbdo2007]

7. Not appropriate for my kids.

But what other parents do is their business so probably best to keep your opinions to yourself rather than cause a family fued.

There are thousands of video games out there that ARE appropriate so there is no reason for any parent to buy these for their kids. Our house will not have any video games with an M rating in it until the kids turn 18.

[Fumesucker]

10. I have no intention of saying anything..

It would be extremely counterproductive.

GTA is pretty graphic, the games are only going to get more graphic and more realistic as time progresses.

[Lochloosa]

8. No.

[YOY]

9. Would you let the kid watch a violent action movie with the same content?

That's your answer...from a Gamer.

Parental responsibility. It's worth mentioning that most likely, a 6 year old did not buy the game.

It says more about the parents than anything.

Not to attack your relatives...but many parents make this error. Mostly because of naivete about the medium and that it's contents are intended for children. The same kind that says that if it's animation it must be for kids. There most certainly are animated shows (well BEYOND the crassness of Family Guy) that are definitely not for children.

It's not the movie, video game, or any other industry that should control whether a kid has access to violence. Put all the ratings on the materials. I'm for that. But when the parents fail to monitor what the kid is playing then we all love to blame the industry when the parents walk into the living room and discover junior dismantling a skell on the big screen.

Vile yes but also remember that there is no real proof that violent video games cause violent video behavior. They have tried to prove it. (Usually the same RW organizations that hate gay marriage I may add.) There is also the dreaded APA study of 2003. It's been shot full of so many holes I like to call it Swiss shit. Aside from a few cases (such as Columbine) where the kids have said they played violent video games (in addition to collecting weapons, being bullied, watching violent films, not receiving parental/school/psychological assistance for their problems etc...) those who make the connection are stunted. Stunted because there really isn't a connection.

Of course the same parents (and once again not your relatives in particular) would never let the child near adult (pornographic) material...despite the fact that nobody really gets hurt in pornographic films. Then I suppose you really have to question our societal values.

[Fumesucker]

12. Yeah, they fall into that category, would never let the kids near anything remotely like porn..

But they don't even blink at extreme violence..

I honestly don't get it.

[YOY]

13. Neither do I. Never had a bout of intercourse where both parties didn't walk away happy.

Never seen a bout of violence where one didn't walk away happy. I've seen one where one didn't walk away at all.

[Occulus]

55. Yoy, you forgot to add....

In my experience (and, I expect, yours as well), the people who complain the loudest and are the most anti-violent-video-game have never played any of the modern ones all the way through, if at all. Not only are they lacking in the understanding of the context of the violence within the storyline, but they are also almost totally ignorant of the fact that they're talking about old-hat stuff.

GTA? Really? I think we've moved beyond that, don't you? Prototype, FarCry 2, Kane & Lynch 2, etc... why don't the people complaining actually play these games all the way through before they condemn them?

It's a pet peeve of mine. As with books, they criticize that which they refuse to experience for themselves.

[YOY]

66. Oh I concur...but there was a good article on the escapist recently on what it means to be a "Gamer"

It did chide those who ignorantly condemn the medium without actually experiencing it and basing their decision making on downright falsehoods (See below for the rape comment...) but it also mentioned that we need to clean up our own backyard a little too: meaning the screaming 9 year olds playing Halo, the "which console is so much better" fan boys, the basement trolls, and the ubiquitous racial/sexual epitaph screamers on any online game.

Part of the job involves repeatedly demonstrating that we are mature functional adults consistently. I am a gamer. I am also a parent. Would I let a 6-year-old play it? No. Do I think it would have negative effects on the kid? Not criminal, but desesitivity toward violence is bad. Have I actually played GTA? Hellz yeah...1 (back in the day) to the present.

I love these guys (Extra Credits). They talk like adults to adults.

Check it out: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2005-Gamer

[Occulus]

75. +1 for reference to the escapist

You do watch the Zero Punctuation reviews, yes? :D

[YOY]

79. Love him, but so often he is "too" acerbic for the sake of being so.

I do love Yatzee's humor though. It's the overgrown manchild in all of us that refuses to simply slam something because "it looks dumb..." Oh no...he lets us all know using some wonderful allegories and references that compare things beautifully.

Also the Escape to the Movies Guy is pretty good. The sort of a guy to film critics as Kevin Smith is to directors.

[w8liftinglady]

11. ok-mom of three boys-12 years between them...don't let the 6 year old play this sh&t

My kids have gotten progressively desensitized to violence.I hate that.i hold myself responsible for this.i should have known better.

[Fumesucker]

14. It's not my decision..

Not my child and I know better than to say anything, it will only lead to conflict that will ruin our relationship.

I don't have enough family left that I can afford to lose any more over a futile gesture.

[w8liftinglady]

15. that's cool...It is futile to take it away once they have it...

[Greyhound]

17. I don't think it will make much difference in the end at all. We saw Elmer Fudd

shoot Daffy Duck in the head with a shotgun (before the nannies re-edited and censored it), and the FBI agents had guns when they were chasing ET, but we are still opposed to real violence used in real life.
:shrug:

[LynneSin]

32. Yes but Elmer Fudd wasn't dealing drugs or treating women like whores

nuff said.

[Greyhound]

42. So your objection isn't the violence, but the anti-social mayhem?

How is it OK for the player to enter a town in Iraq as a U.S. Marine and blow citizens away by the dozens in pursuit of the bad guy, but running down pedestrians in NYC isn't?

I'm very confused.

[uncommon]

44. Who the hell on DU would say it's ok for a US Marine to do that? No one I have

spoken with.

[Greyhound]

49. Read my initial reply. n/t

[uncommon]

52. I read your "original reply" - your comparison is a non-starter.

[Greyhound]

62. Well then, all we have to do is prevent the little darlings from seeing anything bad and we'll

have Utopia in a generation...
:eyes:

This is the same stupid argument that made the distributors edit some of the most creative media ever produced. From Tipper's hysteria over music (remember "Cop Killer" and how they had to re-label it as that evil 'rap music' those dark people listen to, even though it is a metal/punk tune?) to eliminating whole bodies of work by the pioneers of animation. Betty Boop was going to end civilization when she was around, too.

[LynneSin]

70. actually neither are ok

I have no issue with the game but for a 6 year old they still don't have a clear understanding between what is real and what isn't.

And the only comparison I was making was between GTA and Elmer Fudd. Not even in the same ballpark.

[uncommon]

41. Elmer Fudd wasn't shooting homeless people and raping women for fun.

[Greyhound]

48. I haven't played IV, but there is no rape in any GTA games going back to the very first one.

My point is not that it is good, but that I don't believe it makes any difference. Man's inhumanity toward man is as old as humanity itself.

[Gator_Matt]

173. WRONG - One of the first two GTAs had a rape

It was mission where you were to pick up the mayor's wife in a limo, then instead of taking her to the destination, you drive the limo to a remote garage where someone was to rape her.

[Posteritatis]

215. The protagonist in San Andreas winds up on the receiving end of that at one point

He doesn't mind after the fact, and the instigator's portrayed as completely off the rails, but I could easily see how it could set people off, even if the entire sequence was off-camera.

(Of course, it should go without saying that the whole series isn't for the easily offended...)

[YOY]

53. There is no rape in GTA. For fun or otherwise.

Aside from a few wierd underground Japanese Games that bought by a select group of adults who have not been linked to criminal activity (I still have no idea why one would WANT to play such a game...but I digress), I have never ever heard of a game involving "rape" at all.

[seabeyond]

61. isnt there a scene he fucking a naked woman on table, he is fully clothed and pushes her away

when he is done with her?

[YOY]

71. That's pretty consentual. You see nothing naughty anyways. Nothing a swimsuit wouldn't show.

Demeaning to women? Yeah, but remember the protagonists in GTA are not nice men...they're a downright bastards. Sometimes they get what's coming to them. Sometimes they are fighting against even scummier dudes. It's the context. Scarface (Al Pacino) was pretty much the same archtype. A bad man that attracts bad girls. Did it make me a bad man. No. Would I let my teen (and I don't have one yet) watch/play it? Only if I play it with him/her.


I think Gay Tony gets some in "The Ballad of Gay Tony" too...no woman involved. Rockstar may have their faults but they are hardly homophobic.

[seabeyond]

77. demeaning to women, ya. well see yoy, there is the problem. a normalization and shrug of

demeaning to women.

lets teach our 6 yr old.

[YOY]

86. Well I don't have a problem with it in my video game. I know of no gamer who emulates it either.

The real problem isn't that. Because despite the fact that we find that behavior horrible, putting a character (who is truly fantasy and we all know that) acting in such a way in a medium doesn't influence real life.

But cutting demeaning behavior to women in video games isn't going to solve anything sadly. It would just cover our eyes to the real causes of why women are demeaned in society. Should we have the film "Bad Lieutenant" removed completely because Harvey's character is exactly that same kind of GTA bastard? No. It's fantasy. Fantasy that uses shock to compel the viewer.

In "American Psycho" (the book) the main character is so disgustingly misogynistic that he commits acts that I refuse to even type in this message. Horrible things I would never dream of doing. Yet, I could not put the book down. Why is that? The same reason some folks like slasher flicks I guess...we love to be scared and disgusted in a controlled sitaution. One where we know no one is really getting hurt and one where we can put the book down or turn off the TV/console.

...but I really don't think that's the issue.

The real issue is a 6-year-old playing a violent video game. A bit of responsible parenting would deny the kid access to the game in the first place. 6-year-olds (with exceptions) are able to separate fantasy from reality. They may have the start of a moral compass going. The ability to find said activity in reality as not just "bad" (and they know it's bad) but deplorable is the issue.

Desinsitivity towards the deplorable and not the actual showing of the deplorable. That's the problem.

[seabeyond]

92. and i think the continual influx and normalization of demeaning women/girls

in this culture does effect both our boys and girls. or else we would have no issue with the sexy clothes for our little girls and pole dancing dolls

otherwise we would not do any parenting, because good examples and respectful perspectives would be no more relevant than the poor examples.

sheeeit, why waste the money on advertisement since it effects none of us. or have a whole network of foxnews that has no influence.

[JonLP24]

162. No

I've defeated GTA:San Andreas 2 or 3 times and there wasn't anything like that. The so called hot coffee mod from descriptions I read, the characters are both fully clothed, and a mod is something you have to add to which I don't know how to do anyways. The game alone has no sex scenes, just implied sex.

[seabeyond]

164. i was checking out another game and came to that scene.

i clearly saw it. must have been the mod or something. hot coffee????

since i did research and saw the crap. and crap it is.... but not that scene.

hey... i am going to get back to the post in sports. they did the teams before i could put any players you suggested. i got brady and peyton manning as my two quaterbacks, lol. but lost to my son. though got second out of all four of us. i have to do some tweeking.

[Posteritatis]

135. Reminds me of the "Mass Effect is an orgy simulator!" FUD that went around awhile back. (nt)

[seabeyond]

136. i heard that. i also later researched and didnt find much of anything.

but that is the problem with the rating and checking out these games. it is very hard.

oblivion, they were in an uproar. it has an M and nudity and there is none. it was all over a patch or something, correct?

[Posteritatis]

144. That's because there wasn't anything; that particular case was active lying.

Oblivion - and the Hot Coffee thing for GTA you (I think it was you anyway) mentioned elsewhere in the thread - both involved the player going out of their way to modify game files in order to enable things. Neither was available in the basic game, nor enabled by any official patches or the like. I'd be able to do so in the case of GTA (assuming I was the least bit interested in the Hot Coffee thing, which I'm not) but it'd be a fairly fiddly outside-the-game process and definitely not something someone playing an unmodified copy would stumble across. I've encountered a couple of games that had nudity (or implied same) in the main content, but in those cases it was pretty fleeting and the titles - like GTA - were very unambiguously Not For Kids.

For researching games it's often best to actually wander into the areas where the target audience hangs out. Media coverage of games, especially when they're in moral panic mode, is usually worse than useless (like the Mass Effect debacle). Sites like The Escapist or Rock, Paper, Shotgun are decent sources of info, especially on newer games, and are generally written by people who've actually taken them out of the box.

RPS in particular's probably useful for parents concerned about games in general - they tend to cast a pretty wide net and are more likely than a lot of other game-related media to talk about titles which are more likely to be age-appropriate, even if they do like their FPSes a lot too. (They're currently excited about the new Civ game; I'd recommend Civilization games to just about anyone.)

[seabeyond]

146. that is what i am finding to be very hard with video games. the makers leave shit out to sell.

the rating system is bad. paritial nudity can be cleavage or males chest. i knew nothing about patches ect... so would get outraged to have it explained, then pissed cause i didnt know, lol. i have not found any good sites. especially before the game comes out. if i wait a couple weeks, then enough people are talking about it on google.

what is RPS

[Posteritatis]

184. This case was probably something they forgot to remove

Lots of weird stuff winds up in games in the development process when people are throwing out ideas or having a bad day or whatnot. (Speaking from experience, albeit limited experience, here.) I'm not convinced Rockstar left the HC thing in as a marketing gimmick or the like, especially since the furore over it started well after the game in question was already selling fairly well.

To use a somewhat lousy analogy, the difference between patches and the situation that involves unlocking those sorts of things is the difference between getting a problem with your car repaired versus taking your own tools to it to make it do something else. Game patches pushed by the companies are almost always bug fixes or additions of minor features; there wasn't an official patch involved in the HC mess, though there might have been one to remove it. I don't recall; it's been awhile since I was following that. It was definitely absolutely impossible to encounter in the game proper without going out of your way to alter the game, which most people either couldn't be bothered to do or simply didn't know how. I'd played through GTA:SA in full before I'd even heard of it.

RPS is an example of one of the gaming blogs I mentioned; you can read it here. Started up a couple of years ago, and between the articles on newer games and the comment threads on them (they're extremely well-moderated by gaming community standards and generally worth reading on their own) it's as good a way as any to get a feel for upcoming titles from people who are usually fairly aware of them. When a game actually is deeply, for-its-own-sake tasteless they're pretty good about pointing out how ridiculous it is, and are also pretty good at having a more serious discussion about games which, while not actively intended to shock or anything, do have moments that are troubling or offensive. The "Wot I think" section is where they review new or upcoming things in some detail, and gives an idea of the variety of things out there if someone doesn't trust the most obvious sets of titles like GTA or Call of Duty.

It's not perfect, of course, but from what I've seen of the site in the last several months if there's something "off" with a game they or their commenters are usually good at pointing it out (like with Mafia II's treatment of women characters), and are about as good at challenging claims made about something when they aren't true. In any case, if you're trying to figure out what's up with a given game it's one more source to draw upon. And in the end, if the "M" tag is on a game it's probably safe to assume it's there for a reason. It's not quite equivalent to an "R" rating - Team Fortress 2 has an M rating and is pretty hard to take seriously - but it's still a useful "parents might want to think about this" notice.

[seabeyond]

187. interesting.

and so hard

lol, and thanks for the links. i will check them out.

[YOY]

151. Not just an orgy but a crazed orgy with a non-human!!!

I believe this was the dreaded maximum of the content...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjn2chwrv1g So tame it could be posted on YouTube...

Ohhh...those silouettes...those voice actors giving their emotions meaningful words...that soft emotional piano music...the kissing...and the interspecies coupling of SIN!!!

[seabeyond]

156. that one doesnt bother me. i have seen it before.

kids havent played this game. but i would not be bothered about it. the one in red redemption pisses me off. they take a really good game and again, have a guy, clothed, fucking a woman, boobs flopping and shoves her off the table when he is done. all about him. that bothers me.

that is where my line is

the same as a line with the shoot 'em up. left four dead, .... no. gta cause of violence and trash mentality, no. red redemption has shoot 'em up, but there is a difference in presentation. kids knew where scene was and told them.... forward thru. they did. and they got to paly the game. husband said scene was bullshit and NO reason for it to be in a really good game.

[YOY]

158. Question is: Why did the parents let the kids have the game?

The rating is right there on the box:



Because that scene is made to flesh of one of the characters in the game. Just as a book or film would portray someone they wanted to describe...and once again Rockstar is infamous for pushing the envelope on this.

I can watch that all day and not change how I feel about the subject matter. I am an adult. I also know quite well what is not suitable for my kid.

[seabeyond]

163. that one pathetic 23 sec scene. the rest of the game is fine for older kids

even that one scene since a mere 23 sec is not huge deal, but they take a perfectly good game and throw crap into it. men were fucking each other too. so lets get some men on men in these games and see how men buying these games do. you know, male rape. i am sure it wont make you go out and rape a man, but really, lets degrade the man for once in a scene instead of always and forever the woman.

and do you see the difference in the two scenes. rdr and me. that matters

[YOY]

165. Well now, there is a scene in Mafia II. A prison rape scene. Not glorifying/bemusing it at all.

I know the idea that a video game might have such a horrible concept as prison rape might bring about some thought that it is a humorous or trivial thing but it does in fact bring the constant reminder some of us have been continually making on this thread: THESE ARE NOT FOR KIDS.

No, it is not cute...Vito (the main character) is in essence fighting NOT to be raped and or killed. I haven't seen it to be homophobic, but the prison shower rape is a bit trite. But it does answer your desire for man on man action. Also regarding regular gay coupling RockStar has indeed put that into several games: Bully for example.

Now here is a question...I have not played RDR. Was it the main character who supposedly degraded a woman or was it a bad guy?

[seabeyond]

167. you totally ignore the point and mafia 2 gets lousy reviews that being one reason

throwing this crap in to get it to sell when it was such a lousy game.

a guy. i dont know that he is bad or not.... but no, demeaning isnt ok with me. further, we talk about why, the scene. they might as well watch it but if nothing else, we are having a discussion and it is not left as acceptable or normal or conditioned this is the use of women.

[YOY]

177. All due respect Seabeyond. You know I respect your opinion.

But I am an adult. I do not have a problem watching the most degrading behavior possible if it is meant to convey a story.

You seem to have two problems:

1. You think this is targeted at children. It's not. If chidren play it then you better stop blaming the game makers and start blaming the parents.

2. The very idea that such content would be in any medium. You seem to think that presenting them is the same as glorifying them.

If for the sake of charcter development a character in a book, movie, or video game happens to show themselves as being a bigot of some kind: I SAY SO BE IT. A raging adict: SO BE IT. Abusive towards women: SO BE IT. It's character development. Can't think of too many stories where it's glorified. There is no and never will be a serious game called: "Captain Gaybash and the Klansmen beat some Gals for kicks." Even if there were it would be developed by a couple of skinheads in someone's garage and might not be released because the meth lab took out the 486 they were developing it on.

Take "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". As an adult, I don't want to here the Disnified version of the tale with happy singing gargoyles. I want to hear the REAL Victor Hugo version of it : blood, guts, sex, lust, hatred, and corruption.

Because it's not real and it's part of a story's development. Censoring it for me because somebody is too stupid (I agreed with you when you said to me "We do not celebrate stupid." in regards to Ed, Edd, and Eddy back in the day so you will understand how I feel about coddling to the ninnies of this world) to read a rating on a video game and think: "Oh this may not be suitable for junior."

Now if you feel as an adult I cannot play a game with such content in it, I have to tell you that I feel incredibly insulted. Do you think it affects my values to see such things? Does the mere idea that anyone would portray such actions in any medium (let alone video games) bother you? It seems so, but I really hope I am misunderstanding you. But making it go away will not stem nor decrease violence towards women or negative attitudes.

Mafia 2's problem is that you have to spend most of the game driving. I've yet to hear one person complaining about that rape scene...but it is trite. Of course I'm sure a reviewer or two has pointed it out. It's hardly the mainstay of the story.

[seabeyond]

183. hey... with all due respect, lol... teasing

we are talking about what my kids play and why i may say yes or may say no. i was looking at this from the perspective of kids. yes they have M. most all the games kids like are M. i have to judge whether i am willing for them to play one and not the other. that was the conversation.

deadwood. hubby loves the show. it is a well made show from what i hear. historically accurate. he says too much cussing and does not like all the sex, rape, abuse thrown in but part historically accurate. he watches it. it makes me sick.

do you think, we may preceive the experience differently because of gender. i am sure you watching a female raped does not have the same impact on you as it would a woman. continually seeing women demeaned by men cause it is part of the story. it is not entertainment. i am tired of women butchered, raped, submissive "because" it is historically accurate or shows what a bad guy he is. as a woman i see that i see it differently. and you being a man, i understand it does not have the same impact.

because i point this out, and we discuss it is not me saying you should not watch it or it will turn you into a rapist. though i do think it conditions all of us. and in aware, it does not.

[YOY]

199. I beg to differ. I personally find any kind of rape regardless of who is being raped as repulsive.

and that would be real rape. The real rape that causes traumatic damage to real people. The demeaning behavior (yes even rape) we see in video games, books, and film is not "entertainment" by itself, but contributes to a larger work by adding to a story. In that sense it is part of a larger story. The larger story can be "entertaining" as well as "informing". Any kind of brutality can be added to a story to flesh out details.

That "any act of brutality" (be that any kind of rape, violence, genocide or anything else our wonderfully sick little imaginations can fathom) by itself cannot and will not ever be construed as "entertainment"...but it can, as I stated above, contribute to a larger work of entertainment.

Take a look at the film "The Accused"....granted a film that truly is about a rape. Is the film entertaining? By the broadest sense of storytelling it is. It has a rape scene: a rather horrible one that stuck with me despite the fact that I haven't seen it since being a teen mostly because it was portrayed in such a terrible (by that I mean good film-making) manner. Does the film contain only the rape and nothing else? No. Would it still have the same gut wrenching affect on our psyches without that horrible imagery? No, I really don't think it would. Do you know anyone who would actually LOOK FORWARD to watching that scene? Although they exist I am sure, I don't but I cannot imagine the film having the impact without it.

What about "Shawshank Redemption"? This is not a film about rape but has a rape scene. Another memorable scene that is hardly "entertaining" by itself but that scene builds the storyline: Andy Dufrain's violent rape at the hands of 3 other inmates. The protagonist's trials and tribulations in Shawshank involve him being dehumanized, victimized, used for his mind by the wardens and his body by a gang of inmates. We are meant to see him suffer. Why did we need to see that? Because added to the storyline, character development, and made the resolution even more satisfying to see Andy Dufrain and Red victorious in the end.

Simply put: a deplorably violent act (regardless of what it is) by itself is repulsive. When it adds to story and character development they do not encourage such behavior. They are simply contributing to story.

Video games are just another method of conveying a storyline, and like many gamers I disagree with Roger Ebert, a man who I hate to disagree with but must: Video games can be art. Just as any other medium of story telling be it books, film, music, or even comics it conveys a story or thought. Is the thought a low culture or high culture though? Mostly low, but in the past 30 years the medium has come to grips with the medium suddenly realizing it can be more than happy mario jumping about on a dinosaur munching mushrooms (sounds like a Gonzo journalism novel come to think of it...)

The fans know it too. Story driven gaming and sometimes twisting plots or ethical dilemmas have come up. It's sometimes no mystery that the games with great stories or ideas have come into greater popularity.

Take God of War (Not the 2nd or 3rd one...they were just cashing in on the first one.) Ultra-violence is present but looking beyond that as the character building on the main character: one that is destroyed by his own actions in classical Greek tragedy style.

The Fallout Series have shown time and time again the effects of constant war and warlike behavior. The destruction of everything we hold dear. Walking around in the ruins of the city I live in is not fun. It is entertaining and disturbing like watching a horror film.

In Mass Effect 2, we meet a woman only known by the name of "Jack". Jack was deprived of her childhood. Treated as a lab subject trying to mold her into a living weapon. She escaped it only to fall into the hands of smugglers who used her in ways we are left to imagine. Despite her living embodiment of rage, appearance as "damaged goods", and appearance of a vengeful victim who doesn't think twice about killing anyone in her way, an empathetic player can get to know her. To find out that she is human and has a human side that still exists and can be coaxed out of her by showing respect, honoring her wishes, and giving her love. It is not an easy job.

Bioshock 1 and 2, mentioned elsewhere take the (respectively) randian and collectivist mentalities apart for all their shortcomings and failures. We see a society built on an ultra-libertarian mentality...and that greed and unfettered immorality is what destroyed it. Does it have blood spattering...oh yeah...but the game is not all about beating up mutants with a lead pipe...the ending actually made me cry...call me a big softie.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu70sn7GWkc&feature=related

It seems that the new trend of multiple endings based on moral decision making is coming into full force. So far it's been pretty much 3 ending types: good, bad, and neutral. But we are also seeing more shades of grey. I am quite sure there are endings coming soon that go beyond the standard 3.

As for your kids. Those are your kids. You raise them how you want to. I do not have a problem with that and I don't think anyone else here does. Now, when they are 18 and possibly not living in your house? I bet you'll agree that you cannot control them so much anymore.

Now, I've always gotten the idea that your boys are pretty maturely minded. I bet they could take some of that 18+ story and talk about it afterwards like men.

[seabeyond]

203. i did not see a single movie or game you talked about. but... take generals daughter

an excellent kick ass movie. about a female soldier raped.

when they have her in the reinactment scene, the lay her out, OIL her body and did the shots in the most sexual, provacative way to excite male. as she talks the horrors of her gang rape to her father.

it was shit. it was pure bullshit.

i dont watch many rape movies. they are too hard to watch. i dont get anything from them but disgust. but then i dont watch movies like old yeller either. i am trying to think of a movie that i saw where rape was as ugly as rape is, and not sexualizing it for entertainment as a counter to generals daughter, but i cant

i have always said what boys do once out of house is theirs to do. i am not bothered or concerned nor feel a need or desire to control. and at the age they are, they can talk about all this stuff with insight, recognition, understanding.

and they certainly get why there are women tired of this shit in every means of entertainment.

we dont NOT talk about anything in this house. we are open in all ways.

[YOY]

217. May I at least recomend The Shawshank Redemption?

Seriously, it really is a wonderful peice of cinema. Hardly pap. The rape is not the centerpiece of the film but it as well as many other degredations happen to the main character, all building to his "redemption" and overall victory.

And the Jody Foster movie...well if The General's Daughter sickened you perhaps you had best not see it. Nonetheless she is quite good in it.

[seabeyond]

218. i thought general daughter was a good movie. i didn't like they sexualize and erocticize while she

is talking about gang rape to her father. i thought that beyond tacky to say the least. can you tell me the need in artistic value why they would oil the body and angle shots to be sexual why talking about gang rape with her father.

i hear really good things about shawshank.... but those movies are hard to watch. emotional drains.

[JonLP24]

174. It isn't a playable character but not exactly a bad guy either

The guy in the scene is a revolutionary but you can tell he has some selfish motives. All the playable character cares about is 2 men that the revolutionary helps him and eventually finds for him. Also the guy continually forgets his fiancee's name (who was not the one in that scene) so it was keeping with who the guy is which is someone that doesn't respect women. The scene reflects that.

[YOY]

178. So it WAS development of a character that is involved in the storyline.

How horrid...:sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

186. every person i heard on this gave it a WTF and out of the blue.

as did my hubby, almost word for word. the character was well developed already as jon stated, and simply a quick scene of fucking and tossing woman aside.

these are adults that are perfectly capable of handling.

[seabeyond]

166. though on mass effects

it should have been equally naked and as focused on him as her.... then i would have been perfectly ok with scene.

[YOY]

168. Well...how this then?

Playing a female hero you can have a romance with Kaiden?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOwrgvIlfzY&feature=related

[seabeyond]

172. what was that. talking talking talking talking and then more talking. ten minutes

of talking

wtf?

good thing i could fast forward thru most of it. i dont get your point.

[YOY]

180. The thought the Kaiden romance had some action like the others.

Never played that storyline. Possibly it was in there? Possibly another video.

[JonLP24]

169. Abraham Reyes

was the man featured in the scene. Not a playable character but the scene reflects who Abraham Reyes is and part of an ongoing joke. The joke is Luisa is one of the major characters in the game and when you first meet her she tasks you with saving Abraham Reyes which is her fiancee. When you rescue him and mention Luisa he says "Who?". He also refers to her as Laura later on. In that scene he is cheating and when the main character asks about Luisa he again asks "who?". Also in the first mission she mentions that he says her for who she is and doesn't look at her as a peasant. In various moments afterwords he balks when John Marston calls him her fiancee. What, "marry a peasant?" "Ha" is something he says often.

Just giving some context to the scene which is a reflection on the character. Wasn't a fan of the scene but as with any movie portraying a character like that. You can see why it was in there. Also in the game the Mexican Government Army slaughters civilians which is much more disturbing scene IMO but I'm sure it reflects reality of the situation at the time which was set around the Border War which started in 1910.

FYI-Red Dead Redemption and Grand Theft Auto are nearly identical. From everything. The wide open-world gameplay, the stats, the news in game, (GTA has a great parody of Fox News) player movements. Houses move almost like the cars in GTA do except the horses has it's on AI where they wander if and they kick you off if moving to fast. The waypoints are the same. Everything is pretty much similar except for the setting and a few minor differences. The spots where you go to start the missions are the same and they have cut scenes just like GTA that get on with the mission and they are pretty much the same. 3rd person shooting type of missions. The big difference with that is Red Dead allows you start again from checkpoint in case you die or fail the mission. In GTA if you failed a mission, you had to go from whereever you saved or spawned and travel all the way back to the mission marker.

[seabeyond]

175. i will ask husband about comparison and get back to you. i couldnt even discuss the point. nt

[JonLP24]

160. What video game is that?

[realisticphish]

19. No; while some people do overprotect, GTA is not appropriate for a 6 ya

I'm not someone who thinks that video games are the spawn of satan... quite the opposite, I play them constantly.

But there ARE age limits for appropriateness. The actual point in time is pretty vague, and i would say it's unique to each child. But 6 is, I would think, well south of that line.

[realisticphish]

20. delete, doublepost nt

[Dappleganger]

21. We have four teenaged video game players...

ages 18 (nearly 19), 17, 14 and now 13. We have all the gaming platforms thanks to generous grandparents. They play all the Halo games, Metroid, anything with zombies, Bioshock, etc.

I have yet to ever let them own or play GTA at any age. It may not make sense to some, but this Momma put her foot down against that game (and subsequent others). I won't judge others for letting their kids play, however.

As for letting a 6 yr. old play, I'd say HELLS no to that too. But remember, this is your child and you only answer to him and yourself.

[Occulus]

31. GTA is downright tame compared to Bioshock n/t

[Dappleganger]

33. Bioshock is pretty gruesome...

no doubt about it. They also don't shoot innocents just for fun.

[Occulus]

37. Your position is hard for me to understand, because

you're playing a bad guy in GTA.

It's something called context.

edit: I'm talking about your attitude toward your older gamers re: GTA. I think they can handle it, don't you?

other edit: actually, you can shoot at the Little Sisters in Bioshock, but they don't die; they instantly regenerate their tissues due to the slug living in their stomachs. You know... the slugs that let the little girls drink blood...

[Dappleganger]

50. Sweetheart

I don't have to explain my reasoning for how we parent to NOBODY, particularly you. And I am not judging ANYONE who chooses to play GTA.

[Occulus]

57. It sure sounds like you are

and you have no right to make that decision for a legal adult.

[Dappleganger]

63. You should mind your own business.

Our daughter decides for herself and she has no interest in playing GTA anyway.

Really, you need to move onto something more important than trying to tell someone how to parent their kids. I'm not your mother so direct your hate towards someone else.

[seabeyond]

65. i have a 15 yr old that doesnt wnat to play the game. we talk

we listen. we expressed where the problem was with the game, why we didnt like it and why they wont play. there are plenty of games we allow that others may not

my boys trust us. they are not deprieved so they dont have to sneak. and they were raised with a foundation, so they dont need to play in the gutter, no desire. not who they are.

supporting you, lol

[Dappleganger]

69. thanks...

and it's so hard to not laugh, these threads always seem to devolve with some nitwit with no kids trying to tell someone else they're the devil parent.



ALWAYS...it never fails. ;)

[Occulus]

73. See, here's the thing. I've never played a GTA game.

Not because it's too violent, but because the visuals are almost cartoonishly unrealistic, and the violence and actions are so over-the-top unrealistic. edit: I found the GTA demos- all of them- boring and never bought it.

I tend to bag on people who single out GTA, though, because it becomes clear that they've NEVER played it, or any other modern game. It never fails.

Want real violence? Try Prototype, or Dead Space. Those are shockingly violent. Ridiculously so. Far, far moreso than GTA.

I just don't understand why people single out such an old hat game. GTA is so passe, so old....

[seabeyond]

76. GTA is a mind set of living in the gutter, a world of trash. every aspect of the game

is being scum. and then all the things you say about the play of the game. hubby played it once, and for just a while, didnt even finish. it wasnt a good game in his opinion. but further, HE said there is no way he would allow kids to play.

kids dont play the other two you mention either.

[Dappleganger]

80. The person you're replying to

never played GTA all the way through either.

I wonder just how long it will take before he realizes his logic boat has SUNK?

[seabeyond]

82. i jsut keep telling myelf, the parents not parenting's children will hook up with the other parents

children that have not been parented.

i tell sons

find a girl that has been parented. will behoove them and so much better in both the short and long run.

i am to the point of bluntly talking about the trash in our society.

another thread, a mom in stands flash her boobs, and the guys are in giggle and suggesting no harm no foul and fuck the kid who looks at his drunk mother behaving so horribly, humiliation in front of friends and coaches and the other parents.

[Dappleganger]

84. It makes no sense to me ...

We don't let our boys speak about girls in a degrading manner, my husband would die if he ever did. Likewise, with our girls about guys. Respect goes all around, it's not a joke with us.

We're not raising wolves here.

[seabeyond]

85. yup. nt

[Occulus]

104. "a mind set of living in the gutter, a world of trash"

You just described Fallout 3.

[seabeyond]

105. husband may have it. kids dont play it. i dont know anything about it. nt

[Occulus]

108. Which is exactly my point. n/t

[Dappleganger]

111. You contend that parents

who haven't played through then entire game don't know enough to judge the game, yet you also write that you played enough of the demos to know enough about the game.

Really. :eyes:

[Occulus]

114. Parents have a greater responsibility than I do, being a nonparent

I can form that opinion that it's unimpressive and not worth my time from a demo if I want to, and that's my own decision for myself. Parents, on the other hand, are making that decision for their children, and owe it to their children to watch the TV show, the movie, read the book, or play the game from one end to the other if they're going to deny it.

Otherwise, you're just as bad as those who try to ban "Catcher in the Rye" over a few specific passages.

[seabeyond]

119. oh bullshit. have a couple kids then get back to me. you dont know what a stupid comment that is

and i can get info stating the game has strippers, prostitutes, simulated sex, sex shops and know it is not appropriate without playing

or

the kids can play NO games, because i am not going to play them

you state that a parent must do all these things, not to mention all the other things parents must do, that parent now say they dont have time to do

or else

what a bullshit comment that is

inundate the kids world with crap, sell it to the kid, and then tell the parent they have to play in that crap to see if the crap is worthwhile for the child

you dont know what you are talking about

[Occulus]

120. I'm gay n/t

[seabeyond]

121. then you might want to try a little out of the box thinking to help you along. nt

[Occulus]

125. Like imagining being a responsible parent?

I just did that.

[seabeyond]

126. you failed.... nt

[Occulus]

130. Not really

To a point, I'd read everything and watch every show and every movie, play every game, etc.

Beyond the point that's possible, there's something called trust. It's how I was raised.

[seabeyond]

133. well see, there you go. you just went to reason. nt

[Dappleganger]

138. There is trust...

and there are standards.

One can have both. Until you have children of your own one day, don't go around dissing parents with standards different from yours.
Gay or straight, doesn't matter because good parenting is good parenting.

[Dappleganger]

134. Oh please.

[Dappleganger]

131. "You're just as bad..."

you need to get out more often. Not everyone who says NO to certain video games is also a goddamned book burner.

You really should just STOP.

[seabeyond]

112. ????? nt

[Occulus]

115. Exactly. n/t

[keroro gunsou]

207. it's called a

crapsack world....

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrapsackWorld

[Dappleganger]

78. So you believe that a parent should have no say

over whether or not a video game should be played if they have never played it all the way through?

You're logic is incredibly flawed. You've never played it all the way through either, yet you are judging ME???

:boring:

[Occulus]

107. Only if the kid's an adult

and I have both played enough GTA demos and watched enough playthroughs to know it's just mild compared to what's available today. I say this because GTA is old hat. We're beyond this now.

/Kane And Lynch 2
/desire for Half-Life 3

[Dappleganger]

110. I see you side-stepped

the gaping whole of illogic in your posts.

Not surprising, really.

[seabeyond]

113. again, two more games kids dont play. sounds like i am doing a fine job monitoring

kids on appropriate games.

[Occulus]

117. I've been talking about older teens

Both those games are on Steam, and they know about them, it's a consequence of them being on Steam.

[seabeyond]

122. when boys are older.... out of the house, they can play whatever they want. problem solved. nt

[Occulus]

127. "but as long as they're living in my house, under my rules..."

Lived through it. Meant absolutely nothing.

[seabeyond]

129. sigh. it works for us.

from day one we have held the premise of mutual respect. we talk, we listen. it works for us.

[Dappleganger]

139. So what?

You're not living in our homes, so what's it to you??

[Occulus]

145. It's "for the children"

and I've seen that go wrong too many times and been the direct victim of it more than once to trust anything that leans in that direction ever again.

[seabeyond]

148. i am sorry that you experienced that. the thing? there is to much available crap for our kids

and as much as adults like to say, wont effect the kids, it does. sheeit, it effects adults. or all these corps would not be spending money to condition into buying product, or voting republican. parents would nto need to set a good example or even discuss proper behavior.

we cannot say one side of the coin is effective conditioning, but not the other....

[Dappleganger]

153. Well that is too bad.

What is a shame is that you cannot accept that SOME families do it right.

Actually, MANY families do it right.

[JonLP24]

179. I wanted to point out

At least in GTA4 or even GTA:SA the characters weren't evil or very bad or anything. You play the missions and you see the character is in a bad situation and spends most of the time fighting people who are trying to kill the main character.

Running around and killing whatever gets boring real fast IMO. The missions and side missions are what make the game fun as well as the open world gameplay and the combination of a driver and third-person shooter all in one game. Because of that have spawned dozens of copycat games that are just a violent and perhaps more so in some games.

[davepc]

89. Bioshock is a great critique of the libertarian/objectivist philosophy

I think it's a great game for a high school aged adolescent to play after suffering through some Ayn Rand as it provides a graphic and crisp rebuttal to her theories.

[YOY]

109. Hush Chile...

We all know video games make criminals. They never discuss real sitautions.

Including some of which have no black and white solutions...

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/864759/1

[MorningGlow]

22. Not appropriate

My 6YO plays brazillions of video games but NOT GTA or Call of Duty. There are plenty of others out there, so there's no need for him to play them before he's a teen. However, I know at least one of his classmates who plays Call of Duty and loves it. Then again, I always have questioned the parenting in that house (for many reasons)...

[Renew Deal]

23. I've played every GTA since GTA 3.

And I think I played 2, but whatever. I've beaten GTA 3, Vice City, and GTA IV. I've been playing video games since I was a kid and am no prude when it comes to "violent" video games. GTA is too much for a 6 year old. It requires you to participate in outright crimes to complete the game. Parts of the game have nothing to do with crime and are fun (pool, puzzle games, golf driving range). But for the most part, the game is based on completing a series of crimes, sometimes against innocents, and sometimes with outrageous weapons. And then there's the prostitutes and strip clubs (in game).

[Dappleganger]

24. That's what always bugged me to death.

They're all pretty violent (in that category), but crimes against innocents is where I have a line drawn.

To each their own. *shrug*

[Occulus]

43. They're pixels n/t

[Dappleganger]

54. That's fine for you.

You're not raising my kids, and kids need limits. It doesn't need to make sense to you.

[Occulus]

58. Your 18 year old isn't a kid

edit: your argument is the exact same- almost the same wording- I recall from the 80's when Atari released "Berzerk".

[Dappleganger]

64. No she's not.

And she's a hell of a lot smarter than your posts have shown you to be.

Why don't you find your own mother and criticize her for not raising you right?

[proud patriot]

25. IMO first person shooters of any kind are not

Appropriate before a minimum of 12 .

I allowed my son some violence before that
just not first person shooters . He's 14 now and
seems well adjusted to me .

[Dappleganger]

29. And we have a 13 yr. old son

who regularly played first shooters before 12 (as did his brother), and they are both quite well adjusted too. They know it's not real.

But we did not ever allow GTA, ever ever. That was my limit, no shooting innocents for fun.

[proud patriot]

60. That's good to hear

Yes my 14 yr old has not played GTA ever. He and his dad like the
Fantasy D&D like stuff mostly , with some military stuff thrown in
there . They are the Gamers not me .

[Dappleganger]

67. The fantasy stuff is more interesting to me...

I don't actually play but do enjoy watching (and it's hard to not watch when it's out in full view!). Our oldest son prefers the fantasy more and my husband loves the military games. The girls are more into the older Japanese PS2 games while the youngest ds plays pretty much everything we let him play.

[Occulus]

118. try this

http://www.guildwars.com/

Very fun, buy it once, play for free forever.

[seabeyond]

124. my son got one of those a couple weeks ago, and really enjoys

so.... how does this fall in your idea of a kid... 13ish. i only found so much info, and i wasnt going to play it, but the info i found on his particular game looked fine

[Occulus]

137. Guild Wars can be a lot of fun

especially if you don't want to pay for WoW. You should have been aware that it's an online-only game, though. There's a whole text chat system and ingame chat channel. Those places can get... colorful.

I'd also heartily recommend Diablo and Diablo II- and the in-production Diablo III. They're classics- single-player, mostly, but classics. Some people might still be playing Diablo II online, but I don't think it's many.

And then there's Baldur's Gate, the RPG by which all other PC RPG's are measured. It's good. Heavily dated, but really, really good.

[seabeyond]

143. you know the trust thing....

there are games i allow boys to play on line. they are not going to get past the colorful, but a good foundation and their own standards they develop, i am ok with it. i am aware it is online. but i will ask son how it is going, what he is hearing.

diablo (i dont know which one) but hubby ok'ed for kids. that was an iffy at their age (couple years ago....)

[TheMightyFavog]

155. Go for the eyes, Boo, go for the eyes!

Minsc, one of the funniest characters in all of gaming. voiced by Jim Cummings, one of the greatest voice acting talents out there.

[YOY]

201. Dragon Age tried...lord it tried. But 4 characters and a lot of slowdown.

The whole thing dumbed down for the consoles (sorry console gamers)...and the game being well over 100 hours to play from start to finish. Great NPCs with personality and fantastic replayability.

I always hoped for a BGIII. Nevermore...nevermore...

[seabeyond]

204. never heard of Baldur's Gate. hubby liked dragon age.

he said no to dragon age with boys.

[YOY]

216. He should try both himself.

So should you.

Delightful ethical dillemas in the latter...the former involves some serious strategy and wonderful character development. As time has passed we have come to expect nothing less from the company that made both.

[Dappleganger]

141. Our oldest son played that when he was younger...

he's not into them anymore.

[seabeyond]

26. not only no, but hell no. we do computer games in our house.

we do war and shoot them up games. but there are lines and my kids are way older.

at 6, they were doing educational games. they did not do any of these games until about 10. really lite ones maybe with my youngest, when he was younger than ten cause of older brother.

my oldest has had to be delayed in age appropriate and youngest is a little early....

but even now i would not let my 15 yr old play GTA

my husband has it and he says no. i dont play so i leave it to him on a lot of games. i gather the info then we discuss.

[msanthrope]

27. No. It's what loser parents give to kids they can't be bothered with.

If you want to do something constructive about it, try to spend some time with the child away from the video game...teach them an outdoor skill, or take him somewhere he would enjoy.

I think kids exposed that young to such violence never learn how to feel empathy.

[Fumesucker]

35. I'm the only adult that rides bikes with the kids...

We go riding on the local bike path as often as I'm able to get transportation (I don't have a car of my own, there's three kids and not all cars I can borrow will haul four bicycles).

We've also done a lot of other stuff but it's getting harder to get him away from the video games.

All three of the kids are doing well in school, I wouldn't characterize the parents as "losers", the kids are well cared for in other respects, but both parents played a lot of video games and just don't see it like I do I guess.

[msanthrope]

51. Sorry, I think they fit the definition of "loser" parent.

No six-year old should be playing rated 'M' games. No six-year old should be babysat by a game console.

GTA's are rated 'M' for a reason.

Being well-cared for means that parents care what goes into their children's minds, too.


It's good that you are a positive influence in their lives.

[Dappleganger]

56. I'll bet the child's teacher

would have a few good words to say about the topic, if she knew. SHe probably already does.

[Fumesucker]

102. I've cautiously talked with others in the community in a generic way..

It's the deep South, nobody much cares about violence in movies or video games but let a nipple be shown and they would have a meltdown.

I'm gathering that it's quite common here for kids that age to play these sorts of games, you have to be really careful talking about these things because people will take offense very quickly if you appear to be criticizing their parenting.

[Greyhound]

68. Yes, and that reason is SEX!

Walmart has at least a hundred violent games on display where everything from people to wildlife are shot, blown-up, drowned, and thrown off high roofs, but they avoid the dreaded 'M' because there are no boobies.

I'm not saying it is good, but our perverse hierarchy of what is acceptable here is just silly.

[seabeyond]

74. when a man is always fully clothed, fucks her while she is naked, and throws her away like trash

it is not about "boobies". i know men like to fantasy about using a female as a thing, and throwing her away when he is done with her, but it is not something i would let either of my children see as a norm, nor acceptable.

when sex is treated as an equal opportunity event, then get back to me

as long as the computer games are about conditioning and normalizing women as mens whores, then no thank you.

[Greyhound]

81. Which completely avoids the issue, that being the dreaded 'M'.

As I stated earlier, I haven't played IV but the issue of game ratings is as silly as the film rating commission.

Jack Nicholson said, "You can show a breast, if you kiss it you get an X (before the MA rating existed), but if you cut it off you get an 'R'. Where's the sense in that?"

[seabeyond]

83. greyhound i am not going to argue the rating system. it is piss poor. it is about impossible

for a parent to gather the info on a new game and the rating system sucks....

there are teen games i dont let kids play and m games i allow. there are nudity ratings and i can find no nudity in them. i google and research and find out very little. the game makers like to hide the stuff that they know will be an issue.

[Greyhound]

91. We don't really disagree. I just get a little touchy when other people appoint themselves as the

arbiters of morality for everyone. I think the Pagans/Wiccans have it right, "do what you will so long as you hurt no others" (or something very close to that).

[seabeyond]

93. no one is going to stop this parent from allowing 6 yr old to be obsessed with GTA

including the OP.

but, we are certainly allowed our opinion on the parenting abilities of these people

[Fumesucker]

99. As I said before, the kids are all doing well in school..

The parents just don't see violence in video games the same way I or a lot of other posters here do, to them it's no big deal at all.

Perhaps it's where I live, the heart of the Bible Belt has some strange mores, despite the fact I've lived here for almost all of my life I still really don't grok these people well at all.

The mother was concerned that the two older ones (girls) were going to watch Weird Science a while back, a movie that in the end has a very positive moral to it and practically no violence at all but there is one scene where you see a woman from behind in the shower.

[seabeyond]

100. ut a 6 yr old boy watching a dressed man fuck a naked woman on the table then push her away

like trash is thumbs up?

really

out of curiosity. ask how they reconcile. just thru conversation. i do it often with my people, and never in attack or judgment. they get it. and i dont try to change views. i just listen

the point

this boy is probably being conditioned as so many today, that females are things.... as are the girls.

and on edit: my boys have two friends, one at 10 and one about 11 allowed to play the game. again, love the boys. good boys. good parents. so....

but both these boys see a dismissive role for females.

[Fumesucker]

103. I've never seen that and I don't think the parents know it's even in there..

I've never seen anything other than gratuitous violence, shooting, running over people and so forth, nothing sexual at all.

[seabeyond]

106. googled. there are a number GTA's

it depends which one he has. though all have prostitutes, strip clubs, sex shops, simulated sex....

????

i am not huntin for the scene. researching these computer games are hard. that scene might have been the hot coffee? clip or something. i dont know. jsut remember seeing it a while back, researching a different game.

[JonLP24]

188. None of the games

Has any sex scenes on the disk. The hot coffee mod isn't what you describe, both are fully clothed.

The first three has prostitutes that are recognizable. Meaning they all look the same when it comes to how they're dressed. The fourth one I haven't seen any from what I can tell. Anyways when you pick one up and go to a secluded area the vehicle bounces up and down and that's it. Very boring. I haven't used this feature in years and when I did I was curious.

There are strip clubs in the last 3 but the pixels don't do anything. Nothing at all like watching Victoria's Secret commercial. Pretty lame. Those 2 things don't get people to spend $60 on a game. The sex shops are not accessible and even if you could get inside one you don't see anything anyways. All the magazines or videos are so small everything is blurry.

Simulated sex I haven't seen. There is implied sex where you don't see anything inside a home. You're actually looking outside.

I don't care what games you allow your kids to play. That isn't why I'm saying this. I'm saying this because it is correct information AFAIK. The stuff you described is VERY tame and other things you mention are not even really there such as sex shops. All you can do with those is stand outside and read the sign.

[LanternWaste]

198. Context.

"Where's the sense in that?"

Context. :shrug: A morality play containing nudity and violence (Schindler's List, Hamlet) vs. the nudity and violence becoming the entertainment in and of themselves.

One is designed for the purpose of helping us become more aware of the human condition in all its varieties and vagaries. The other... not so much.

But I imagine there will be those who will emphatically equate the two to better justify their own opinions, thus being blinded to the obvious and critical differences.

[walldude]

208. Nothing wrong with gaming... GTA is excessive for a 6 year old

not to mention it's a pretty lame game, it only has notoriety because of the content. There are plenty of much better games for the younger kids.

I suggest learning to game with your kids. I grew up gaming, card games, board games and when the video game boom came I got into electronic games. Instead of complaining about my kids wanting to game I got into it with them. Something else we can do together. With my two older kids we play lots of Halo, Call Of Duty and Burnout. With my younger kid we play the Lego series games and all of us together love to play Rock Band, especially the Beatles version.

My middle son is autistic, he has just entered high school and parlayed his interest in computers and games into an internship at the FBI Cyber Crimes Division.


Yeah, we're a bunch of losers.. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[cleanhippie]

28. Not appropriate, but don't take our word, take the American Academy of Pediatrics

http://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/family/tv_habits.html



Sounds like the parents of this child are using the TV as a baby sitter and not taking an active role in their child.

[LynneSin]

30. About as appropriate as giving that 6yo smokes, booze, crack and a hooker too

:eyes:

[pipi_k]

36. Not appropriate. I'm not sure I'd even want a teenager playing it. n/t

[uncommon]

40. "Is a game that glorifies violence, prostitution/rape, gang activity, and comical reckless driving

appropriate for young children?"

Really?

It says something about the culture AND the parents. It's reprehensible, not to mention in extremely poor taste. Frankly it's not "appropriate" for anyone, regardless of age.

(And yes, I have played it. Briefly.)

[Taverner]

45. Personally, I don't think its a good idea

And my kid is a hard core gamer!

He loves all iterations of Sonic and the Lego series...

But GTA is not allowed. Just not now.

[blondeatlast]

59. No, IMHO. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

72. Appropriate? Probably not. Will they love it? You bet!

My nephew (6) got his hands on one, and he told all his little friends at school about it, and the teacher went ballistic. Moral---if you let your 6 year old play Grand Theft Auto, be sure to warn him not to talk about it at school.

[MilesColtrane]

87. Only appropriate if your goal is to raise a 6 year old gangster.

[Orsino]

90. I haven't played the game...

...but the little I know about it leads me to conclude that it can't possibly be appropriate for a child that young.

[Arkansas Granny]

94. I am not familiar with the games you mention, but when my kids were growing up

I did not allow them to watch violent shows and movies. The violent video games just weren't around at that time. My fear was that they would become desensitized to the violence and not develop empathy for the victims of violence.

[proteus_lives]

95. I wouldn't with my nephew or niece. But you know your relatives.

I don't know if your six year-old could handle it or not.

It seems a little young to me. Mainly because I feel a six year-old wouldn't get the absurdity of GTA.

[derby378]

96. I wouldn't do it

I would be uncomfortable with anyone under 17 playing any version of GTA, even though I love the series. You have to make a lot of ethical choices as the protagonist, even if those choices mean gunning down everyone in sight and mowing down hookers in a dump truck.

Not appropriate during a person's formative years.

[underseasurveyor]

97. Simply.... Not appropriate

If it were my child he would not be watching certain games much less playing them.

I'm not against video games at all but I think it's important to let kids be kids and keep the games they watch and play on the lighter side of fun and learning. Not the graphic rough stuff. That day will come soon enough for them no sense in hurrying them into it.

[Fla_Democrat]

98. No, instead get him

World of Warcraft.... just don't let him roll a stinkin' BELF. :evilgrin:




:smoke:

[SidDithers]

101. Not appropriate...

that's why there are ratings on games.

Sid

[Marr]

116. My sister will let her six year old play GTA, but-- get this--

she polices his behavior in the GAME. She won't let him carjack people, or shoot innocent people, etc. It's so bizarre.

[seabeyond]

123. well, now, that is an interesting concept. really, lol.

she is setting the line and a learning experience for son in what she is doing. very creative.

[Dappleganger]

142. Agreed.

But I know my own limitations are that I cannot be sitting w/them 24/7 while each one does something different.

And guess what...nobody complains about it because there are so many other games to play!

[seabeyond]

149. that is where the trust comes in. not GTA cause there is too much crap demeaning women and i wont

have in home (though hubby use to have it, someone gave to him, he trade it in but his stuff is seperate of kids, geeesh) but, there was one game, i dont remember what it was. i watched hubby play it. and it was a good game. told oldest he could play, but he had to play on the "good" character. and i can trust him to do. it is in open. hubby can figure anything out. kids are aware. and they KNOW i will throw computers and Xboxes out on front lawn.... lol llol

fear can be effective

[Dappleganger]

157. LOL!

@you throwing things onto the front lawn.

My kids would kill me over the embarassment, probably.

We have the challenge of having older teens plus a very young one in the house, and he is a bit immature for his age. We all do behave protectively around him because he's the youngest and we know that he'll have his entire life to watch whatever he wants when he's older. It's a group effort but led by the parents.

Trust is one of those things that is easily broken and slowly rebuilt. They are more afraid of me blocking their ports than anything else, ha!

[seabeyond]

161. i have niece a lot, 3 yr older than oldest, so really widens the spread with youngest.

i hear ya. something they have to be aware of. kids really listen though, and they follow instruction i set. the thing, my oldest told me, he does not need to rebel cause with reason.... we always work things out. if a parent does their job in early years, the teen years aren't so tough. we talk about all this stuff. always. when it comes up. no hold bar. we are not timid or shy or hesitant

[JonLP24]

190. I actually play it in a similar way

You don't have to do a lot of the stuff featured in the game but that is what makes it fun. Most games you have to do this, then this, then this in a certain order while this game gives you the freedom to do so much. Hell I even stop at red lights on GTA. I only do the missions and apply RoE when I do them. :crazy:

[Posteritatis]

132. That's kinda interesting

As someone who plays GTA and is actually appropriately aged for it, trying to straight-and-narrow it - well, okay, straight-and-narrow as possible given the nature of the games - certainly adds a bit of a challenge to things.

[Posteritatis]

128. I'm looking forward to people getting past the whole "games = little kids" mindset. (nt)

[JVS]

140. GTA is a video game for older people, just the way that Spicy Western was a comic book for adults.

[TK421]

147. GTA was considered too violent, but it gets a bit tricky for me when you bring age into it

Six years old? Yeah, probably so, but considering everything else that is out there today it is pretty tame. Now, Fallout ( I'm talking about Fallout 3 in particular here ) has plenty of blood, guts, sexual innuendo, and profanity that I wouldn't want my kid exposed to at such an early age...but you know what? no matter how much you want to shield your kids from playing these types of games they will always find a way around your rules...kids are just curious.

Used to be Mortal Kombat was considered too gruesome a game for anyone under twelve, but I suspect most twelve year olds ( and under ) would laugh at that kind of gruesome these days.

[Lucian]

152. Fuck no.

There's a reason it's rated "M" for Mature.

[cynatnite]

154. My son is 11 and video-gaming is a big deal for him...

We try to be as informed as possible before buying. There is enough information available that it's easier to decide what is appropriate for him.

IMO, six years-old is a bit young for GTA. I wouldn't buy for my son at 11. Maybe at 15 or so I think I can feel comfortable enough with him making his own choices about gaming.

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. hmm... no, and the game is classified for ADULTS

but I guess parents think he is very mature...

Niece... parents of niece... don't ask.

[bvar22]

170. No...Absolutely Not.

I'm 61, and this game in not appropriate for me.
I play it all the time and have great fun, but I would not recommend it for anyone.
Thats because I can handle it.
I'm more level headed and grounded in reality than anyone I know, and certainly more than anyone posting on an anonymous Discussion Board.
.
.
.
.

Seriously, I would have some problems with a child playing this game,
though I'm not sure how I could justify my reservations.
Is it any worse than the Road Runner cartoons I grew up with? :shrug:
I don't really know.
They are both cartoons....fantasy.
I'm sure our fantasy life affects our life in Real World, but I would NOT say that it produces direct, primary behaviors.
It could be argued that they may actually inhibit these behaviors in the REAL World.


The other question is, how effectively could you stop this?
Its not just GTA, but a whole World of violent computer games.
Preventing, or attempting to prevent, exposure to them would be doomed to failure with the added benefit of potentially damaging your relationship with this child.

I really DO play GTA ( andmost of the violent 1st Person Shooter games for 15 years), and it has caused NO unmanageability in my Real Life, other than hiding this (enjoyable for me) pass time from my friends, and never, NEVER admitting it on open, anonymous Discussion Boards.







OOPS.
Please ignore this post.

[beforeyoureyes]

171. NO

[MrSlayer]

176. It was appropriate for mine. Might not be for others.

Letting my kid play these games, watch South Park, Scarface, horror movies and the like from an early age hasn't affected him adversely in any way. He's now fifteen, an honor student and plays six instruments. Doesn't watch TV or play video games at all anymore.

:shrug:

[JonLP24]

195. I agree

I saw Casino when I was kid (yes I'm young) and grew up fine. There was one thing my mom wouldn't let me watch is nudity which I hated. A lot of the good movies out there had a sex scene and I couldn't watch it. It was trained so much into me that I turn away from sex scenes in movies. Anyways my point is Casino is a very violent movie, much more than video games these days, and it didn't bother me or give me nightmares. I thought it was a very entertaining movie and I really liked the setting, Las Vegas.

Anyways growing up I watched movies like that and played games like GTA and grew up fine. I never start fights and don't break the law except for :smoke:

[Stevenmarc]

185. It's fine if you want to raise a desensitized brat.

[Deep13]

189. No. Video games generally are not appropriate for children. nt

[Diclotican]

191. Fumesucker

Fumesucker

No, GTA are NOT appropiate for a 6 year old child! It is PGA 18+ as a game, and should not be anymore near GTA! It is somewhat of a violent game, even for old children, like 15-18.. I would not give acess to sutch a violent gamle to a mear 6 year old child, as a child that age, more than posible do not understand the whole consept of reality vs a game...

In fact I would say most games is to keep out of hands of a 6 year old child, regardness if the child is "mature" enought in his/her head to play it.. It exist a lot of games out there, who are fare more appropriate for a 6 year old than GTA....

Wel, im maybe somewhat "conservative" with it, and would not give a 6 year old child any near that things of stuffs.. And yes, I play GTA SOMETIMES myself, but I know the difference between reality, and a game

That is not the case with a 6 year old....

Diclotican

[TK421]

194. I tend to agree with you here Diclotican....and I was exposed to

much more violence at my age that extends beyond video games...we fought on the street, and everything was an "offer out" which was basically a challenge.

I've played these games, and have never felt a violent impulse or had an urge to go out and imitate what the characters did in the game, but six years old is too young for this kind of shit.

[Diclotican]

211. TK421

TK421

Real Life can expose you to far more dangrous than a video game, but even tho you can experience more violence in Real Life, it is still something called responsibility you/we as grown up have, to "censor" what a little child is imposed to se.. I was growing up in a home, where the parents was good at "censor" what we saw, and not saw, and even tho I could disagree with it, when I was old enough to really understand I would say I am little thankfull for it.. Mostly becouse I had/have a somewhat overwelming fantacy and sometimes had some horrible nightmares about things when I was smaler... Specailly when IRA was blowing up things in Irland in early 1980s, (I was not watching the news,as I was a mear todler at age 4-5 but I guess I got some info regardness) and I was scared about bombs in house corners.. Had a horrible fear about bombs many weeks to it subside somewhat... But that is maybe a sidenote to it all... And I would not even thing about what a child of today, with all the posibilities to have 100s of channels telling you everything.. When I grow up, we had one channel, who closed down at 12 at the night, and was not airing before 4-5 the next evening, or maybe they did had some TV programs at the days too, but I never watched TV in the day anyway, as we was told to get out and play in the woods... Even tho they also was in disagrement when I came home with dirty cloths, and more rifs on my body that they ever had seen on a kid before:P Oh wel, childhood I guess:evilgrin: Broken bones and so on, but I survived it all..

And we dosen't had computer games, as it was Far to expensive to just buy when I was age 6 and forward.. Even tho I do rembember black and white tetris and so one, it was not common to have this type of games when I was growing up..

Today, we have all type of games, and all forms of consoles to play it on, to computers, to Xbox, PS3 Wii and what else... And we, if we are parents have to be vigilant, to keep an aye on what kids do when you are not in the room.. I guess it was not that easy before, but the danger to a child, is maybe more acut today,

Wel, we who are grown up tend to understand and not feel violent impuses as we have learned the difference between a game as real life... But a 6 year old child are not able to really understand the difference between a game, and real life. A thing that not even older child sometimes is able to do.... Who many miniors today, are in prison, becouse of they don't got the difference between a game and Real Life.. I understand the difference between beating living daylight out of a figure in a game, and not do the same in RL on the streets... But some are not able to do that, when they are growing up, specailly when you are just 6 year old..

When I get children, I would be really, really carefull for what they do play and not play, and would be carefull enough to have the different consoles, where I can keep an light on it all.. Today you can buy programs to have on your computers, to do everything from just keeping a eye om what your child does and don't do when online, to programs, where you can stop access to many sites (not perfect, but better than not having anyone) if they are not on "the accepted list".... It depend of how responsible you want to be, when it came to your children... And I would say it is maybe time for "us" as parents, to be responsible, even if the day is tuff, and you want to calm down when you are home. Are you a grown up person, to have a child, you are responsible to "shape" the kid, to the day he/she is able to live on their own.. And I belive in some "strict" parenting, rather than "i don't care what the kid do, as long as they are out of trouble".. A kid can be in soooooo mutch trouble before anyone know it, even with the best parents by the way.... But at least, we can do our best to keep the kids in some protection as long as we are able to do it...

Diclotican

[TK421]

214. Hello Diclotican..thank you for your response

I agree..things have changed quite a bit since growing up as we have...I do remember having the Atari 2600 with my brother and waiting to get home from school to see my brother on it and me being mad about it! :D But we still got along just fine...

Agreed, today video games are more realistic than they were back then...I thought I was exposed to some shit growing up, and I'm only 35...but the kids today growing up with the technology they have probably don't even know what an Atari was! I've asked...very few kids know what they were.

And before video games were introduced I agree with you, me ( and my peers ) spent more time outside than inside....but I guess thats the hook

[Diclotican]

221. TK421

TK421

Most things have shanged extremely since you and I was young.. I'm just a year younger than you are, so we know bacic the same things, when it came to game consoles and stuff.. I rembember when the most modern thing to have, (and it was EXPENSIVE) a game consolle, with old caset, where you had to type in codes, to play a game of black and white stripes, with a ball between them.. And with 4 tones it was irritating as hell for the grown ups:P.. But as the old age of 4-5 it was something like a space shuttle or something....

Yes, the fight between a game console is rather dumb I might say.. had have my chare of fighing with my own brother, but for the most part, we got along, as we seldom had the opportunity to play on a game console... That be the one or another.. I guess I was in high school when I got my first "PC" A Commodore 64, with a 5' floppy disk (really advanced;P) And some games.. And it was an USED Commodore 64, not a brand new one, as a new one was little to expensive.. It broke down on a regular basis, but when it worked, it really worked wel, but as pointed out, it broke down on a all to frequnt basis, and it was not before I got my first real PC, a Pentium 1 100hz PC, with wopping 1.80gb HD (EXTREMELY LARGE HDD I know;)that I was bit by the virus...

Off course, even our generation was exposed to many form of shits when growing up, some survived with no damage, others got into adult life with damages they never managed to keep totally out of things... I do have my share of handicaps, who limit my life in many ways, but I do my best then...

My guess is that most kids would not know what an Atari, or early types of Computers was, if you ask them, and even show them what it was like.. I are an uncle of 4, the oldest is a boy aged 13 now. Once we was on a technical museum, and to my suprice, a C64, similar to my own was there.. I told him about it, how amasing it was and so on.. Then I understand, I was old... He had the look on his eys "are you a dinosaurus" and had some problems with understanding that everyone could use something that old.... I still have problems, getting him belive some of what I did when I was growing up.. It looks like we are living in the middle ages compared to what they do today...

Technology can be used for good, or for bad. Kids today have opportunity we would not even be close to have ability to do 20 year in the past.. And the technology wil grow and grow into known future.. Just think about things like IPAD, who was future for just a decade, when it was used regulary in movies like Star Trek en all... No one would posible belive, that Ipad and other types of equipment was posible just a decade away... So many things have changed since we was kids..

In some way, I think we was better off, getting out (and I was a indoor man as anyone) and be exposed to anything else than a game console.. Of couse it depend of where you live, I was living near the woods, so I guess I was exposed to this type of envirmoment. And thankfully I was also growing up with parets who WAS THERE, strict, but fair for the most part.... One time my younger brother even got into problems, becouse He had doing some stupid things.. Often that was my right, as the older one..

At least, when my time comes to have children, I wil try to balance what they can do, and not can do, it wil not be easy, becouse I am somewhat of a techo frike myself. But it is better to be a parent, who is caring, and clear to what they can do or not do, rather than just let them do what they want on the computer... They wil most posible thank me in the end anyway;)

Diclotican

[LanternWaste]

193. I would think not... but then again, I'm a traditional and conventional guy

i would think not... but then again, I'm a traditional and conventional guy; and stoped paying much attention to this New & Improved E-Opiate of the Masses outside of the handful of PC games I myself play without a hint of self-righteous justifications.

I've gotten to the point in which I simply shrug off the ineffectual defenses of this, our 2 Gig Sacred Cow that can do no wrong (other than slip in the sales department).

My position is that I would not like to see a six year old playing it... I'm just not trendy enough to believe otherwise. I'd offer a few rationals for my position, but the Brain Trust would chime in with fallacious analogies to chess, anecdotes of how it didn't ruin their lives and even improved their hand-eye co-ordination, and the implication that it "offers stress relief..."

How can anyone argue against such water-tight logic?

[ContraBass Black]

197. It says clearly on the front of the package that it is not for children.

What's there to debate?

[Posteritatis]

209. A lot of people sadly still think any video game is automatically for little kids

They'll just run with that thought, ignoring the ratings or anything obvious about the content, and get oh so outraged later.

[Romulox]

202. I don't any video games are particularly appropriate for a 6 year old

I spent my time at that age drawing, and running amok. And I say the foregoing as an owner of all 5 (yes five!) major systems: ps3, 360, wii, psp, ds

[Forkboy]

205. My parents argued over whether I should see Godzilla at age 6.

My father wanted me to see it and my mother didn't. My father won, I watched it, and it clearly didn't affect me....

[TK421]

219. No...it didn't affect you at all!!!

:rofl:

:hi:

[Forkboy]

220. I guess the argument was heated.

My mother was convinced I'd have nightmares if I watched it. And she was right. I had nightmares for about three weeks, until my father told me that our Husky would take out Godzilla if he came near us. I knew my dog, and totally believed that!

My father still laughs over me being a Godzilla junkie 37 years later, but it's all his fault. :)

[TK421]

223. hey...I think I watched all of the Godzilla movies growing up, and I remember they

used to show them on local network PHL17 ( which, by the way has gone through several strange transformations over the years ) every Saturday afternoon starting at 1:00. It was my brother and I who watched that stuff all the time...I would never have guessed at your fandom by looking at your handle, but that avatar and sigline pic?
Dead giveaways man! And I loved pretty much all of them ( I never was a big fan of Mothra, though....that whole thing always seemed beyond silly to me, as silly as some of those movies were ). but Rodan and Ghidra ( Ghidora? ) were always cool villains to me.

[TransitJohn]

206. Uh, no, not appropriate.

Not at all.

/avid video gamer of 38 years

[Ohio Joe]

213. All 6 year olds should play GTA

They should also be doing all manner of other things rated for adults, thats why we go through the bother of rating things. :eyes:

[distantearlywarning]

222. I'm a big fan of GTA, played all of them

And I say, no, absolutely not!

My opinion would be 14 and above, at the very least. It's a completely inappropriate game for a small child.

[TK421]

224. I still play Vice City when I have a really bad day....what a tension reliever that is

and I agree with your point