Olbermann think Stewart jumped the shark yesterday.

[Fuzz]

"The rally included references to Glenn Beck, the Fox News host who held his own rally this summer, a rally that some have suggested Stewart's event was an answer to. (Beck also gave out four medals at his rally.) But they were not direct: Instead, Beck was lumped in with both conservative and liberal commentators as part of the reason, in Stewart's eyes, the media is failing America."

"Beck, Keith Olbermann and others appeared in montages offering incendiary rhetoric that Stewart deemed dispiriting. (Olbermann did not take kindly to this: "It wasn't a big shark but Jon Stewart jumped one just now with the 'everybody on <24 hour> cable is the same' naivete," he wrote on Twitter.)"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20021281-503544.html

[HipChick]

1. I'm disappointed in Olbermann

[seabeyond]

10. olberman has a point. stewart has a point. this is none of it black and white. stewart was doing

his own contradictions, saying compromise as he chewed obamas ass off, in a cutsey and respectful way, for the health care issue on his show the other night.

instead fo being disappointed, the point from stewart rally is seeing, there are different sides, different perspectives, same facts that may be overlooked or misinterpreted adn

having a DISCUSSION

not about shutting up

not about "disappointing"

not about accusing and yelling

[johnaries]

34. Absolutely! nt

[sabrina 1]

48. Olbermann definitely has a point. There is simply no comparisan

between Fox and MSNBC political coverage. Beck and Olbermann? Do you know these two people at all? Does Stewart?

These false equivalencies have been thrown around for so long that it makes good political analysis indistinguishable from bad 'Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh et al. The media does this all the time, and I was very disappointed to see Stewart do it also. It sort of puts on the 'inside', going along with the 'let's not rock the boat' media crowd.

Facts are facts. Keith's style may not be everyone's choice but he does not lie the way O'Reilly, Hannity et al do.

He was simply wrong to lump them together like that.

[Politicub]

77. Someone tell John Stewart that sometimes an asshole is just an asshole

The false equivalence cheapened the rally, at least for me

[CatWoman]

58. I'm not; I wholeheartedly agree with him

If Jon wanted to avoid this, he would have included a clip of himself calling someone a douche.

[intheflow]

92. Although Stewart has never said he was a serious journalist.

He has always asserted he's a comedian whose schtick just happens to be about current events. So a comedian calling someone a douche? Not so indicting as the rhetoric flying out of Olbermann's mouth.

FWIW, I don't think Olbermann/MSNBC spouts lying rhetoric like Faux talking heads, but his show is MSNBC's attempt to capture the same kind of populist infotainment format that gave rise to Fox's popularity. I prefer news to opinion, and Keith relies more heavily on the latter than the former. Rachel is better, but again, the infotainment format is very off-putting to me.

[Radical Activist]

2. It's a false equivalency.

I wish Stewart would stop pretending that the behaviors of the left and right are the same. It's one of the few bogus narratives of the corporate press that he keeps repeating.

[Fuzz]

3. Keith does go over the top occasionally, but nowhere close to what

Beck and company do daily.

[emulatorloo]

5. Yes, and Olbermann can survive a fact check. Beck? He just makes "facts" up.

If Olbermann gets a fact wrong, he issues a correction. Beck? HA>

[TeaBagsAreForCups]

8. And, most critically...

... when he goes over that top, he stays airborne with truth, credibility, and facts.

Elements that are rarely part of the narratives of the likes of Beck, Rush, and their fellow travelers.

[Flubadubya]

65. Amen brother or sister...

And given that we have so FEW voices on our side compared to those on the nutjob winger side, the Left/Democrats would do well to support their own, someone like Keith, rather than tearing him down. Sheez!!

[Radical Activist]

20. I'm not a fan of his style.

I don't want a liberal version of O'Reilly. Still, we have to acknowledge that one is a lying, bigoted propagandist, and the other is a propagandist with some credibility and loyalty to factual information.

[Flubadubya]

64. What Olbermann goes over the top about...

is when he's calling out outrageous right-wingers for either their lies, some impropriety, or even criminality. And when it comes to those issues, he can't go far enough "over the top" to suit me.

More power to Keith! :thumbsup:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

66. +1

[emulatorloo]

4. Olbermann: 'everybody on cable is the same' naivete

Yeah the False Equivalency problem really annoys me. I think Olbermann put it pretty well.

[malaise]

6. +1

That was my only criticism of the rally

[AndrewP]

9. I agree n/t

[pacalo]

17. I agree.

[kath]

43. yep - Stewart is very guilty of the "false equivalency" bullshit .

It's his biggest flaw. Only one side lies,and lies and lies, and stirs up violence.

[JVS]

23. I agree with you on this.

[mzmolly]

67. Yes it is. I posted a thread that illustrates how we differ

IMHO. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9425496&mesg_id=9425496

[Davis_X_Machina]

7. Heartily concur.

Thank you. Finally someone else who was basically unimpressed.

250,000 too-cool-for-school members of a demographic that doesn't reliably vote in the first place, who just know that it's all a shuck, and that acting as though any of this actually matters is so not fashion-forward turn up on the Mall. That's going to change a lot.

A third of them so still won't vote -- it's tragically unhip --, and the remaining two-thirds will cancel each other out.

The prosperous -- and that crowd skewed prosperous -- will go with whomever dangles the largest tax cut in front of them -- that'll be with the Republicans. The last third aren't numerous enough to save the nation.

Irony, not tyranny, is what will finish off this Republic. John Stewart is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. And you know they don't vote how?

People who take the trouble to go to a political rally, regardless of what Jon says, vote.

And no, they're not the same, but THE MEDIA is part of the problem, for the record as they have been since oh foundation. Keith is part of the paper of record, not alterate press. Read a littke on the history of journalism. What Jon did, not that he realizes it, is in the muckraking tradition.

[Davis_X_Machina]

16. They don't vote because they don't vote:

For presidential elections,they don't turn out

For mid-terms they really don't turn out.

[Radical Activist]

26. There's a large "they" of any age group that don't turn out.

So what's you're point? Ignore young people because less than half vote for candidates who have no concept of what they care about? Stewart is helping to change that and it's a good thing.

[Davis_X_Machina]

28. Look at the eligibles to voters gap in that chart...

...and tell me that young people aren't part of the problem, as well as part of the solution.

[Radical Activist]

31. And Stewart is being part of the solution.

So what's your problem other than having some obvious hostility toward young people?

How many retirees would vote if there were no candidates talking about social security, medicare, pension funds, or mortgages?

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Once again people who attend a rally tend to vote

If you refer to the general population that is another story...but these folks are part of the universe that are engaged and DO vote.

[MadBadger]

75. You werent there, so I guess its okay that you have no idea what your talking about.

I was there, and I can tell you that what I saw was a rally attended by people of all ages. It wasnt just young people who dont vote. There were people there of all ages and a substantial number of people who werent of college age.

[Radical Activist]

14. When 90% of the press and politicians ignore young people

and the issues they care about then I have a hard time blaming them for not being engaged. Don't forget that voters under 30 delivered the election for Obama. What Stewart is doing is very important.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

15. Pretty large gathering for you to disparage, no?

How is it you are able to glean so much from the crowd?

[Davis_X_Machina]

18. Old people vote. And that wasn't an old crowd.

They just do. To maintain otherwise is to fly in the face of the facts.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

27. Your 'facts' are unproven.

Did you sample the crowd's age?

[Davis_X_Machina]

30. The people on the could all vote...

...Democratic, every one, every time, and nationwide you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference in the numbers.

It was nice, but it was only nice. It wasn't Quatorze Juillet, bis, or even Wenceslas Square.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

38. " A third of them so still won't vote -- it's tragically unhip --, and the remaining two-thirds will

cancel each other out".

I see no justification/support for this "fact".

[apocalypsehow]

40. Twice now you've posted actual facts in this thread, and your detractors have posted zip, nada,

preferring instead to engage in personal attacks and special pleading. In the face of actual facts they just screech. Well done. :thumbsup:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

44. Yes.

You have lent much credence to the "facts".

:rofl:

[apocalypsehow]

45. And right on cue, a DU smiley face in lieu of a factual rebuttal. Par for the course. n/t.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

47. Par for the course?

Rebut my points. Go ahead.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uncommon]

63. At least half of the attendees standing within view of me were over 40.

And there were a number easily over 60.

This was not a rally of only young Americans.

[Goblinmonger]

22. I think there is some irony in the fact that Stewart says both do it

and then Olberman says "No, evil Republicans."

Do I think Beck is worse? Yes. Does Keith go over the top? Yes. Can Stewart come out and bash just Repubs? No, because then he comes across as just another partisan and he has valid points against liberals, too.

[Radical Activist]

29. Instead, he's coming off as another insincere pundit

who use the "both sides do it" cop-out because he's too much of a coward to point out when one side does it. It's the same mindset that tries to equate a Conway supporter stepping on someone's foot with Rand Paul supporters ganging up and stomping on the head of a MoveOn worker. Reporters feel they HAVE to say "both sides do it" because otherwise it's liberal bias. It supports the same framing of talk radio hosts who excuse the Congressional page scandal because a Democrat did something similar 30 years ago.

It's a dishonest and destructive way to frame serious problems in the press.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. moved post

[sabrina 1]

88. I don't think anyone can go over the top enough to express

the justifiable outrage that should have been expressed long ago at the screeching, lying, corrupt, libelous, moronic, bigoted, authoritarian, war-mongering, torture-supporting, chicken-hawks from the radical rightwing Noise Machine such as O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Savage and the virtual army of them that has contaminated this country's airwaves and its political discourse, mostly UNCHALLENGED, for the past several decades effectively destroying the political process along with decent politicians, like John Kerry eg, whose feet they are not fit to wipe.

I waited for years hoping some day someone on the left would take them on. It didn't happen, not until just a few years ago. And Keith Olbermann was one of the best at doing it, along with Al Franken and a few others.

And YOU think there is even a remote comparison to be made between Franken, Olbermann eg, and Hannity, the liar, O'Reilly the woman abuser AND liar, Limbaugh the hypocritical drug addict and war-montering chicken-hawk? Jon Stewart thinks there is a remote comparison to be made between these people?

Please explain, with some examples.

Meantime I will say a great BIG thank you to Keith and all I can say is we need hundreds more fact-checkers like him before we can finally defeat the lying Rightwing Fox News and the rest of the hate radio cabal that continue to pollute our airwaves.

I can't believe I'm seeing this on DU. I remember, BEFORE Keith, when this board and others like it, longed to hear someone take these liars on. Dreamt about it. Now, we are slamming those who had the guts, and yes it took guts, to take them on?

Unbelievable. I missed Stewart's comment, but he goes way down in my estimation for having done this. It's a shame, but this is typical of the MSM and he just put himself in their category when he could have shown he was capable of remaining independent.

[lunamagica]

37. "the remaining two-thirds will cancel each other out"

Do you really think anyone who attended that rally would vote Republican? The rally was favorable to Muslims, gay people and even illegal aliens. Those three groups are HATED by the GOP. Not just by TP's, but be the entire party. No way that anyone there would vote for them.

[Eric Condon]

84. You have royally missed the point about young people not voting

Young people don't vote nearly as much as they should, but it has nothing to do with whether or not it's "hip." Young people don't vote because they don't hear politicians address their concerns. Politicians don't address these concerns because young people aren't known to vote reliably. It's a vicious chicken/egg cycle and it's impossible to say where it started.

I'm 25 and I've voted in every state, local and national election since I've been of age, so obviously I'm an exception, but I can tell you that most of the time when a young person hears a politician speak, they only hear pandering to older people. The ONLY thing I can really think of that has been a direct appeal to young voters in recent years has been student loan stuff, which is as much for parents of college-age kids than it is for the kids themselves. Obviously I recognize that ALL issues affect young people eventually, but I'm trying to convey what I think is the general reaction among people my age and younger.

[flvegan]

86. Dumbest thing I've read on DU this week.

Congrats.

[WinkyDink]

11. Boys, boys; no need to fight! ;-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Keith might not like it

But he is part of the same establishment. What Jon did was muckracking at it's finest.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. the problem is treating truth tellers and liars as equal

or even giving preference to the liars (as is now the rule)

[Enrique]

24. he's not saying Jon jumped THE shark

he's saying he jumped A shark, a small one, whatever that means.

[Riley18]

25. I was confused when Olbermann and Ed were lumped in

with frauds like Beck. There is no comparison between them at all. Beck and other Faux jokers stay as far away from truth and reality as possible while Big Ed and Keith always back up what they say with facts. I am surprised Jon didn't throw Rachel under the bus with the others. It seemed to me that the rally was mostly poking fun at 24 hour news cycles more than anything else. I am not going to lie and say I didn't watch the rally because I actually watched it twice. However, I wish it had been less wishy washy and more reality based.

Our country is really at a defining moment in history from what I can see. If our country is going to be run by people like the ones running for office this time, there won't be much left of us when they are through. We will become once and for all a third world economy. There will be the superrich and the rest of us barely able to scrape by. I already know so many people who have just continued to become poorer with each passing month. There does not seem to be an end to this nightmare. What will be next? Social Security cuts or worse privatized. It is a shame because there was light at the end of this awful tunnel with President Obama, but now I really do not see how anything will improve for us in the coming years.

I hope I am wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. He was talking of the ESTABLISHMENT

Both Ed and Keith are part of it.

[BootinUp]

32. If there is criticism of Olberman from the Sanity Rally

or Stewart it is pretty mild and can be best summed up as: Maybe Keith you should watch your choice of words a little bit.

So why would anybody think this criticism is valid or useful? I guess that depends on whether you think Keith's and MSNBCs audience will continue to grow or be stigmatized as overly partisan and level off in viewership. Personally, I think he has built a great program for more liberal reporting over there, the question is how to grow it bigger.

[liberalmuse]

39. I still love KO, but he jumped the shark awhile ago.

Nothing wrong with that. 'Happy Days' was still on tv for many years after Fonzie jumped the shark, so it's not necessarily a terrible thing. Fonzie lost his 'cool', is all. So sayeth the self-professed 'cool kids' (aka 'geeks') who coined that phrase. I can't wait until the phrase 'jumped the shark' well...jumps the shark.

[WCGreen]

41. Rachel wasn't in the montage....

I think she must feel let out...

[AzDar]

42. Lumping Keith, Alan Grayson, and Big Ed Schultz in with Coulter, Malkin and the like

pissed me off royally yesterday. :grr:

[laughingliberal]

49. Yep. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

52. I agree. It was a bad mark on an otherwise good production. eom

[EFerrari]

79. Yep. Keith is right. n/t

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[girl gone mad]

51. Stewart should have found someone in the media who is actually on the far left.

Of course, no one would have a clue who they were because the far left doesn't get invited to speak on the MSM.

But equating a very moderate voice on the left like Olberman with a nutjob on the right like Beck is absurd.

[silverlib]

54. The up side is that the MSN couldn't come up with

taped screaming from the liberals to rebut anything at the rally. Did Stewart state that what the two media liberals shown or the wonderful liberal Rep. Grayson were wrong in their views? Stewart just covered any repercussion that the right wing could use against the rally that held any ounce of truth. I think he used it, just like the Myth Buster's wave. Rachel has never yelled, in my memory, and is the prime example of how media and journalism works best.

[Ramulux]

53. Olbermann has every right to be pissed

I would consider being compared to Glenn Beck to be slander. If I was Keith I wouldn't have been so nice about it, that shit is insulting and just flat out wrong. You cannot make any sort of valid comparison between the two.

[Fly by night]

55. IMHO, Olbermann is the biggest ego on TV besides the Faux Noos hystericals.

I've felt that way since late 2004, after my one and only personal contact with him, back when DU had a self-described Keith Olbermann "estrogen brigade".

Haven't heard much from them lately.

[Berry Cool]

60. "Haven't heard much from them lately"? The KOEB is alive and well!

There's no "back when" about it. We still watch his show and we still support him. Sorry you were so disillusioned by your "one and only personal contact with him."

Yeah, he has a big ego. You have to have a pretty big ego just to be on TV. But he speaks truth, in an entertaining way, and brings us news and facts we need. For that, we continue to be grateful.

[Fly by night]

62. I meant no offense -- I really like as much estrogen in my environs as possible.

Including here at DU. For evidence of that, see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9428728

[mzmolly]

68. That thread title is disgusting.

:hi:

[Fly by night]

71. As David Ferrie (the Joe Pesci character in "JFK") would say:

"Oh yeah? Which part?"

Have a great Sunday evening. Just don't do anything I wouldn't do (or wouldn't promote doing here at DU.)

[mzmolly]

73. It's not a matter of what I would do.

It's a matter of stating things in a way that respects the general audience here.

[Fly by night]

81. I realize there are many here who are disgusted by the thought of consuming cannabis.

But DU is also a wide-open tent.

Believe me, I almost never use the phrase "performing cunnilingus" in my day-to-day discourse. There are other (more straight-forward but nonetheless easily understood) ways of making the same point. I opted for the clinical rather than the scatological in that thread. Sorry if that offended you (really).

It appears not to have upset too many in GD, at least so far. But the night is young ....

Besides, you are helping me make the point about the difference between behavior that is seemingly outside the norm and that same behavior rising to the level of illegality.

I realize I've just used the words "wide-open", "point", "straight-forward" and "rising". I hope I did not offend you again with this response.

Now back to playing with the less offended (or more lascivious).

Good golly, mzmolly -- have a wonderful rest of the evening.

[mzmolly]

83. To clarify,

I'm offended that some have little regard for the fact that the DU audience consists of people of all ages. I feel there are better ways to make a point than to be blatantly crude. Though admittedly, I decided not to read your entire OP, based upon the title alone.

At one time DU didn't allow blatant vulgarity in an OP title. That must have changed somewhere along the way?

Peace and a wonderful evening to you as well, Fly by night. :pals:

[Fly by night]

90. Two things:

1) You might actually read the OP. You might find it entertaining, as many have. (Be forewarned -- the OP makes reference to many kinds of sex acts that are illegal in some places in our country, including a husband talking dirty in his wife's ear during sex.)

2) As far as vulgarity in OP titles here at DU, you have to be kidding me. Some days, every third title on the "Greatest" page has the word "fuck" or worse in the title. It has been that way forever (or at least for the last six years). I have NEVER seen that censored, though I would definitely agree with you that this place would be better off if those thread posters weren't bone thug wannabes and if the "f" word never appeared in an OP title (or seldom did).

As far as I know, cunnilingus is a medical term. Again, there are more vulgar sounding synonyms for it and I intentionally avoided using those terms. BTW, I find nothing vulgar with either the term nor the act. Do you? Should using the term, much less doing the deed, be criminalized?

Obviously many state legislatures did believe that in order to make the act illegal though, as posters in the other thread have accurately pointed out, those laws were often a way to criminalize homosexuality. Do you favor continuing to criminalize homosexuality?

WTF?

Once again, thanks for illustrating my point. Have a good week.

[mzmolly]

91. As I've said,

the mods have become lax on the issue.

"Do you favor continuing to criminalize homosexuality?"

Of course not. I think that laws regulating sex between consenting adults, should be overturned.

Interesting that you started out saying KO had a huge ego for responding to criticism, and you're doing the same. ;)

[Fly by night]

93. No, I've been responding to you. I've said my piece here. Peace.

However, this exchange did prompt me to post something in the "cunnilingus/cannabis" thread that reflects on this conversation. I believe it was post #73 in that thread. If you can get past the language, humor and comments of others, you might enjoy reading that post.

Or not. Take care.

[EFerrari]

80. You are probably right. And no one on the right even comes close to him. n/t

[Left coast liberal]

56. I love Keith but he is a little thin skinned.

[JackRiddler]

57. He's right but...

on the other hand the "equivalency" argument was more camouflage for the fact that this was a response to the Beck rally than anything else.

[Mz Pip]

59. I like Keith. I like Jon.

These feelings are not mutually exclusive.

There have been times when I wished Jon was a bit harder on some of his guests. There are times when I think Keith stoops to cheap hyperbole.

No one's perfect.

[joeybee12]

61. Keith, when are you gonna realize your ego is GIGANTIC??

Seres-ly, I agree with most of what he says, but come on, you nede to be taken down a notch or two...the attention can't ALWAYS be on you.

[mzmolly]

69. I don't think calling out Stewart means he has an

ego problem? In fact, I think Olbermann is quite humble, much of the time. :shrug:

[KansasVoter]

70. Stewart was an asshole! There are plenty of GOP commentators to insult over Keith!!!

[Major Hogwash]

72. Stewart's not fit to tie Keith's boots!

So, there!!

There's some "Sarah Palin loves Joe Miller" love for ya to chew on!

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

Besides, Keith doesn't wear boots.

Hoo-haw!!

[TicketyBoo]

74. Jumped the shark?

From Wikipedia:

Jon Hein explained the concept as follows: "It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant that you know from now on...it's all downhill. Some call it the climax. We call it 'Jumping the Shark.' From that moment on, the program will simply never be the same."

If this rally changes The Daily Show's prospects in any way, I believe it will be to enhance it and increase its audience. Either Olbermann doesn't know the meaning of "jumping the shark" or he's just plain wrong.

[mzmolly]

76. I understand its meaning, and think it was an apt

response.

[TicketyBoo]

95. You think that

this is the beginning of the end of The Daily Show?

I think it is likely to increase his viewership.

[dorkulon]

78. I too am tired of hearing Maddow lumped in with Hannity as left-right equivalents. It's bullshit.

Maddow checks facts and is mildly snarky at worst. Hannity is a fact-free lunatic. It may seem "balanced" to throw them in together, but it is certainly not fair.

[Panaconda]

82. This is politics?

This is entertainment posing as politics, nothing more or less.

Not much different than Variety magazine or any other schlock celebrity gossip rag.

Maybe someone here could find out what Lady Gaga thought about Stewart's comments relating to Olbermans' thoughts on Beck's reference to Hannity's underwear?

[Uzybone]

85. KO needs to grow the fuck up

Keep doing what you think is right, and stop being so thin skinned.

I happen to think he needs to follow Rachels example.

[mzmolly]

94. Rachel wasn't featured

at the rally as a part of the problem.

[HughBeaumont]

87. Loved the rally, but that moment was bullshit.

What exactly did Ed or Keith say that wasn't true?

Calling someone a nutjob for, you know, BEING a nutjob (which all of the REST of the RTRSoF footage exposed in all it's nudity) is pretty much NOT the same damned thing as when a Faux "pundit" barfs hyper-dramatic, red-baiting, end-times hyperbole and Reagan-era stereotypes when describing Democrats.

[Missy Vixen]

89. I really appreciate Olbermann

but his ego is showing.

Claiming Stewart has "jumped the shark" is incorrect at best.

IMHO,
-MV