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DonCoquixote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:45 AM
Original message
Where we are now
OK, let's state the obvious. Yes, there was a lot more the democrats could and should have done. Like Clinton before, they should have realized that the GOP has never felt the need for compromise, or even deep thought, because they know they can buy the loudest megaphones and appeal to America's demons; it's greed and fear. I agree that, even if the Blue Dogs and GOP shouted down every progressive idea, we would have at least kept our integrity, which would have helped us get a few more voters out there if nothing else.

That being said, there is a temptation to leap into easy answers. No, the “professional left” should not be the scapegoat. Yes, the democrats do need to be reminded whose ideals they represent, and with all due respect to the Jon Stewarts of the world, more attention needs to be paid to the middle and working classes that are clearly being SCREWED. No, Jon, there is not this wonderful middle where people really want to get along and work together; whatever progress we make “together” will be out of desperation, the same “desperation” that put Obama in office. One mistake the left is making is saying that people had some magic moment where they came to their senses in 2008, no they did not, it is just that Bush had literally run out of any credibility, even to his former friends.

However, do I see some easy answers being peddled, yes? Will those easy answers kill us if we buy them, YES! Feel free to throw the rotten fruit, but if you read them, you may realize some things cannot be refuted so easily:

One: “obama had a mandate!” No..because as soon as election night was over, those squishy “independent” types (aka the reagan democrats) got COLD feet. Half of them were really hoping we would turn out a Republican in sheep's clothing, ala Bill Clinton. Granted, what Obama should have done is realize that if he fed his base better, they would show up when they needed him. However, if we went Michael Moore, the media would have repeated the mantra “oh my god white voter, can;t you see Obama would have done this!” He needed to feed the base, but the independents were still squishy, and the Blue Dogs would have exploited this, seeing how they get to act democratic and still have loyal voters kiss their butt (see, Landrieu, Mary) We need to find a way to lure these skittish people over to the left, and we need to realize they were conditioned to have a gag reflex that is stronger than any “mandate” could ever be. Until we address how to talk to the mushy middle and win them over, everything is a joke, as they will see that we do not really care about winning them over.

Two: “if Obama acted more leftish, he would have had a loyal base”, sorry, as much as Michael Moore sells this, and as much as I want to believe it, no. Now, I never, repeat, never want to get like the GOP. Yes, they march in lockstep goosestep, and it gives them power, but frankly, the day we become like that, we sell our soul. That being said, let's acknowledge some facts:

A) some of the “left” was against Obama from the get go. Some people wanted harder left, like Dennis K.) These folks had sincere ideals. Then there were some that openly stated that “FDR saved capitalism from itself” and were afraid Obama might do the same, preventing the big socialist revolution they had wanted since Comrade Trotsky promised it. These folk were primed for disaster since y2k came and went.

B) some of the “left” were in it for their ego. Now, let me say this. I understand there are many people who sincerely believed that Hillary Clinton was the better choice in 2008. My beef is NOT with you. My beef IS with people who were hypocrites, complained about all the ways Obama acted like Clinton, and yet, somehow kept selling the line that Clinton was harder left than Obama. Then, said people willingly ally themselves with the right wing, just for the sake of scoring points against Obama. Ariana Huffington, Jane Hamsher, I mean YOU! And no, it is not because you happen to be females, it is because anyone who extends a hand to Grover “drown government in the Bathtub” Norquist or lets right wing types rant all over her blog are frankly, thinking like testosterone laden males! The people who say Hillary 2012, no matter how many times Hillary herself disavows the idea, I mean YOU! As sad as this is, it makes me want to see the parallel universe where Hillary won the election, and is very likely in the same exact hole, because she did not even pretend to dislike mandated insurance, and would not dare overturn HER policy of DADT, especially with Bill being the unofficial VP!

And yes, I do include Mr. Stewart here, because he wants al the glory of being a journalist, but still wants to be considered a guy who does fart jokes. You cannot have it both ways.

So, to sum, yes, we need to go left, yes, we need to acknowledge our HERITAGE, our Ideas, but if we allow false halos to be worn, we will find ourselves killing ourselves again!

Also, one last point, let's not forget this could not have happened without 4 billion dollars in cash, a lot of it from China. I don't care how well you “frame the message” when enough money to run a small country is devoted to smashing your frame into splinters. Keep in mind, the REAL money will come in 2012, and if we allow ourselves to think that all we have to do is “sell the message” then you are ignoring the megaphones. We cannot outbuy or outspend them, thanks to the Supreme Court; we can only try to tighten up at the REAL grassroots, because the same people that sell Coke and Marlboro's will be selling the GOP, because they KNOW what they have to gain.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Best I can tell, South Central Pennsylvania, and I don't think I'm stoned.
Hey, man - is that a bag of Doritos?

But to answer your question, we're in better shape than we were ten years ago when the shrub was selected.

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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I really hate that we lost the House, but what really disturbs me
were the Senate pick-ups

I go to bed with bad news, and wake up still feeling shitty
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Well, the Dems have a good opportunity here. Change the Senate rules.
Right now, they need to use them - block all of the GOP bullshit the way the GOP blocked good legislation. When the GOP starts bitching about it, they've got AMPLE ammunition to fall back on - the list is huge. Then they can challenge the GOP toward the end of 2012 to change the rules, make it a simple majority (other than where 2/3 is required by the Constitution) and give back the power of tie-breaking to the VP. The THREAT of blocking legislation is all that is necessary now. Nobody actually has to take the floor for 60 hours straight (or whatever Thurmond did) anymore. Either put up or shut up, assholes.

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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Two obstacles: Ben Nelson and LIEberman.
Still, with 49 nominal Dems and two independents, at least on some things the Dems won't need LIEberman, because Biden can break a 50-50 tie.

And I am happy that Blanche Lincoln lost.
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. good take on that, and I hope thats what they do with it
:thumbsup:
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. Somewhere between nowhere and doom?
Where ARE we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket?

;-)
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Howler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. yes. n/t
n/t
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