By The 2020s, We Will Be Seeing and Reading Media Stories About Americans Emigrating Abroad

[Yavin4]

In all nations where wealth gets concentrated amongst the few, the people either revolt or flee. As the depressed economy continues throughout this decade, be prepared to see and read stories about Americans pulling up stakes to live and work abroad. It will be the height of irony for many in a nation that complain bitterly about immigrants to become immigrants themselves in other nations.

Canada will be the prime destination for most Americans, if only because of their national health care. As the U.S. government slashes spending on healthcare, it may be easier for U.S. families to relocate to Canada and take advantage of their single-payer health care system rather than rely on a hodge podge of expensive care here in the U.S. I know that if I had kids, I would seriously consider moving to Canada rather than starving here in the U.S.

I know that the moving to Canada threat has been used before esp. during Bush II's reign. However, this time is very different. This time, we will have over 10%+ UE with no relief whatsoever coming from government. This time, housing prices are falling across the country and they continue to fall. This time, foreclosures are soaring. This time, the Republicans are even crazier than they've been in the past, and they will eventually take the reigns of power.

Incidentally, if folks had moved to Canada in 2004, they would have been better off because Canada weathered the global crisis far better than the U.S. did.

--On Edit--
Corrected the poor grammar in the thread title.

[Vincardog]

1. Screw Canada, I am heading SOUTH

[Dappleganger]

25. I recommend Costa Rica...

a very beautiful place with equally lovely people.

[Vincardog]

39. I land in Ecuador in Jan

[Dappleganger]

42. Nice.

Do you have family down there?

[Vincardog]

57. Not yet. Depending on what I find I may get a few to move down too

[gmoney]

78. that's where all the pukes are buying up land

Limbaugh and the Bushes, for starters.

[krabigirl]

2. I think the stories may come sooner than that.

I am glad to live in California, even though i am in a red area, but we have been thinking of moving as well.

[RKP5637]

26. In 2012 we'll have a pretty good idea of the trend line. Here it's so red now I don't

think anything redder exists. The country is being gutted for greed and profit, IMO it's just going to get worse. Americans have become too ignorant. They get kicked in the ass and say thank you.

[krabigirl]

41. I agree. A lot will depend on 2012.

[Kievan Rus]

53. Just like in Roman times, "Bread and Circuses" have made them ignorant

As long as the average American cares more about celebrity scandals or "reality" television than issues that actually matter, they will continue to vote against their best interests and vote for whomever the TeeVee says they should vote for.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. I intend to flee.

[Yavin4]

9. Same Here.

I'm getting older. I'm 46 now, and the thought of being an old man in this country truly frightens me. When we age, we get sick and we are frail. We need help from others, and this country treats its weak and frail very poorly.

[RKP5637]

18. Get out of this place while you can. I had a chance in the 60's and elected to

stay in the US. Now it's too late for me, too old, but if younger I would get the hell out of here. I hate to sound pessimistic, but I doubt the US has much of a future on its present course. The R's have figured out how to harness the power of ignorant Americans and the D's are still trying to figure it all out.

This place is an oligarchy and next will be a theocratic government. You and I will be long gone before the US gets its act back together. Meanwhile, other countries will walk right past the US. The wealthy in the US will do just fine, the US is now just a geographical place on the map anymore. The truly wealthy can live anyplace, but for the majority of the citizens IMO bad times are ahead. And if this place truly falls apart, one really wouldn't want to be living here.

This trend has been going on since the 80's. I had hoped it would correct, but don't be like me and hang on hoping for better, I don't think it's coming. What scares me more than the politicians are those that vote them in... And you will get old, sooner than you think. All it takes is a couple of unexpected illnesses.

[Yavin4]

Like I Said In My Post Down Below

The best and brightest amongst us will be the first to emigrate elsewhere. When you're talented, you're not going to stay in a depressed economy. You're going to go abroad.

[RKP5637]

29. Yep! And many of the immigrants to this country were very bright, made

discoveries and contributed greatly to this country. But today, I can't imagine anyone well educated, talented and with lots of options putting the US at the top of their list to immigrate to as there are far many better places in the world to work and live.

[sinkingfeeling]

31. I'm 62 and I don't see 'better' is coming in my lifetime. This was the last shot.

[RKP5637]

38. Yeah, same here. I pretty much reconciled myself to that last night. This is

going to take a generation or two to change this mess if even then. I'll be long gone.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. I wish I were financially able to blow this pop stand.

x(

[RKP5637]

85. Yeah, I know. I feel trapped too. n/t

[Hissyspit]

22. +1

[crazyjoe]

52. and......why didn't ya?

[sinkingfeeling]

65. I'm working on it as I type. Have two houses to sell and then need to unload 50 years

of 'stuff' like antiques and electrical appliances that won't work where I'm going. Called for 2 estimates on some home repairs today. Everything has to be perfect in order to get the highest price possible.

[and-justice-for-all]

4. That is what I am working on now....

I have been researching it.

[Democrats_win]

5. Sadly, yes. The GOP isn't changing course as we head toward the iceberg.

[glitch]

34. We've already hit the iceberg, right now they're locking steerage. nt

[devilgrrl]

6. First or second generation Americans will return to their country of origin.

That's my prediction.

[Fuzz]

7. The company my wife works for is based in France. I've asked her to see if she can transfer

for years now. ;)

[damntexdem]

8. I disagree. I think we'll be seeing the media ignoring the story.

But Canada has weather that is so much colder -- brrrr.

[Yavin4]

11. Cold Weather in Exchange for Affordable Health Care

That's a bargain.

[KamaAina]

54. B.C. isn't that cold

kind of damp, though (it's right next to Seattle and WA state).

[geardaddy]

73. I'm considering going south

to Toronto (from Minneapolis). ;)

[JustAnotherGen]

10. It's a perk

To being with an Italian man . . . He even said last night: "If these bigots roll back your rights (I'm black/white) - then there's no way my children are being born in this country."

[Deep13]

12. I would move to Canada tomorrow if I could make a living there.

Project for the next two years: figure out how to make a living in Canada.

[Yavin4]

15. Folks from Central America Come Here and Figure It Out

In fact, that's what all immigrants do. They move to another country and figure it out.

[Deep13]

21. Well, I'm sure they do.

I mean that I didn't got to college and then law school for seven years to be a fry cook.

[crazyjoe]

46. so what makes you think you can't make a living in Canada?

you have 11 years of college, I don't get it.

[Deep13]

59. Seven. College plus law school.

I'm doubtful that my legal training would necessarily transfer to Canada. And I have no idea where to even start looking. I'm in a county position right now, though based on how the 2010 country elections went, I doubt I will be here after the 2012 election when my employer is up. My wife works in a family business that has one location. She's not going to want to leave it or her family. I left my relatives in 1991 when I moved here from MA. Plus, we would have to dispose of our house.

It's not so much that I have immediate material need. I just don't want to live in a country that is moving toward fascism with each election. I'm sick of being around stupid, selfish, cruel and arrogant people. And I don't want to have to worry if I can afford health care.

[a la izquierda]

13. I thank god every day that I'll have a PhD soon.

Most European countries will take an educated woman, methinks. Especially one who is an expert in all things Latin American. Canada would be okay as well. I've learned to like the chill.
I can hope, right?

[Ginto]

67. I'm confused. Why wouldn't you want to go to Latin America?

You obviously have a deep interest in it since you've devoted enough time to get a PhD. Congrats by the way.

[a la izquierda]

71. There are a variety of reasons, not the least of which...

is the fact that my husband speaks zero Spanish. He can get by in Europe with just English. Unless we went to Argentina (unlikely), he can't follow me around everywhere as his translator.
Besides, talk about corrupt, disastrous governments...I love Latin America, I love living there part time when I'm researching. But unless I want to be divorced, full time residence won't happen.

[Ginto]

72. That is just strange to me.

If I loved a culture so much, I would just tell my spouse to start learning the language. :)

[a la izquierda]

75. Yeah, he's 36.

It's probably not going to happen at his age. He doesn't have to love what I do anyway (though he does). I really have no urgent desire to move to Europe. In reality, Canada would be fine; besides, most Latin American countries have plenty of their own historians. They really don't need a gringa.

[Ginto]

76. Ha.

I'm 36 too. I'm learning Spanish and Japanese through Rosetta Stone. Spanish because the fiancee speaks it and tired of her translating for me. :)

[a la izquierda]

77. Do keep me informed on how it goes.

I'd love for him to learn, as it would help me immensely. Oh, and good luck.

[deminks]

14. It will be to find work. My great grandparents came here looking for work.

Guess I can continue the tradition.

[TBF]

16. I had hoped we could move to Europe, but austerity there is as bad

or worse than here. Canada is looking like a real alternative.

[krabigirl]

44. I agree. We could move to France, as my husband is from there, but...

What you mentioned, as well as the anti-immigrant wave there right now, makes me pause a bit. However, even if they cut programs, it is still far better than here.

[Yavin4]

17. Think About This As Well, The Most Industrious of Us Will Move Away

Our most educated and brightest will move first. Why stay here in a depressed economy with no prospects for jobs? They will be gone first, and we will be stuck with Sean Hannity mouth breathers fan club.

[mike_c]

19. my daughter and SIL are leaving in January....

Moving to Denmark, where they hope to eventually immigrate. He already has EU citizenship through his father, who is a Brit living in the U.S. Neither sees much future here. Both are well educated young professionals.

The SO and I are planning to retire in seven years. We're hoping to at least get out as ex-pats, probably in Central or South America. No, we don't expect to find a more perfect government anywhere, but maybe we'll find some place we're not so deeply ashamed of. America has lost its way.

[RKP5637]

35. I'm so glad I no longer travel internationally for work as I did for years. I too am

deeply ashamed of America today. It has truly lost its way and god knows where it's headed. I don't think it will be very pleasant for most people at some point in the future if this continues.

[deaniac21]

20. I was thinking about moving to North Little Rock.

[sinkingfeeling]

33. You'll still have Senator Boozman.

[deaniac21]

83. Where ya headed? I like Fayetteville.

[sinkingfeeling]

84. I hope to split the year between Ireland and Italy.

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. My husband works for a UK company.

Before Cameron and the conservatives took over, I was begging him to apply for a transfer to headquarters.

I do have to admit, while I would prefer to be part of the solution and see the U.S. come to its senses in my lifetime,I can easily see myself emigrating if push came to shove. Which, being a liberal, I could very well be pushed and shoved... literally.

[WillyT]

24. And Many Will Take Whatever Retirement Dollars They Receive...

and move with them to a country where they go further.

I know of some who plan to move to Panama.

Trade in U.S. Dollars, many English Speakers, warm...

Link: http://www.liveabroad.com/articles/panama.html

:shrug:

[Ginto]

27. But to where is the question????

It's difficult to emigrate to the countries that I would want to.

[Yavin4]

28. Canada Will Be The Prime Source

Other low cost countries like Panama and Costa Rica are also good choices.

[DimplesinMI]

30. After the results in Michigan last night..........

Were the GOP took our Governorship, Secretary of State, Attorney General and Michigan Supreme Court spots....with the Michigan House too...I know I will be adding a enhanced license to my wallet on my next birthday.

That way I can get to Canada within 30 minutes, when this crap we just witnessed with this vote, blows the heck up.

[Kablooie]

32. Somalia may be looking pretty good in a decade or so.

[whatchamacallit]

36. HBSC has been running lot of ads about helping Americans set up foreign accounts

One shows a family moving to a beautiful latin american location.

[WinkyDink]

37. Canada is not "abroad."

[treestar]

43. Won't happen

Why should Canada take tons of Americans? Why would they?

They have immigration laws, too.

[proteus_lives]

45. Gotta love these tuck tail and run threads.

:eyes:

[Codeine]

47. They're like frigging clockwork, eh?

Lose a midterm and it's time to emigrate. :eyes: "I twisted my ankle; it's about time to amputate this leg, and you and your children ought to do the same before you twist yours!"

[proteus_lives]

50. Yep!

"I'm soooo out of here!" :rofl:

[crazyjoe]

51. agreed, makes me laugh. BTW, I see a couple of " i'm going to

south america" statements. Well, I've been to Costa Rica visiting a friend that owns a home there. All I can say is, don't get sick or injured while your there. I may be hours to the closest hospital, and quite frankly, anything more than a broken leg and I'd be on the first plane outta there. (unless of course I was bleeding to death or something)
Oh, and don't bother looking for a cop either, you won't find one. Oh, and if your house is on fire.......

[Yavin4]

64. Well, I Hope That You Are Extremely Wealthy

Like I said, if people had followed through on their threat to emigrate in 2004, they'd probably would be better off today.

Me? I am 46 years old, and I do not intend on living in the U.S. when I'm in my 50s.

[proteus_lives]

68. 50 bucks says you're still here when you're 56.

Shake on it.

And no, I'm not wealthy.

And I'm not going to delude myself with "grass is greener..." fantasies when the whole world is facing the same problems.

I'd rather make my home a better place. Running solves nothing.

[Kievan Rus]

48. I'm already planning on emigrating to Europe

Since I've been politically aware, I've always felt like "a European born in American body." Anybody who thinks this is currently the greatest country on Earth is either willfully ignorant or just plain dumb. Sure, America once was the greatest country on Earth at one point in time, but anybody who is willing to turn off Faux News or Dancing with the Stars for ten minutes and think will realize it sure as hell ain't the case today. We're the laughingstock of the developed world.

As soon as I have enough money saved up and a steady job in Western Europe, I'm out of here. I certainly hope I'm living in Western Europe by 2020.

I'm currently a single 25 year old male, but I've already decided that if I'll only plan on having children if I can move to Europe. I only plan on having children if I'm living in Europe, because I wouldn't want to have children have to grow up in this toxic, selfish, un-empathetic, anti-intellectual culture.

I wouldn't want to have children grow up in an environment where anybody that actually cares about learning in school is mercilessly bullied by a bunch of ignorant assholes. I wouldn't want to have children grow up in an environment where science and math education are substandard, and the history/civics classes are a motley collection of half-truths, distortions, and flat-out lies. I wouldn't want to have children grow up in an environment filled with feel-good, paternalistic bullshit such as the absurd 21 drinking age, where all it will teach them is dangerous, underground binge drinking; instead of the much more reasonable European environment where alcohol laws are relaxed and youth learn how to drink responsibly. I wouldn't want to have children grow up in an environment where going to college means they'll go at least $60,000 in debt. I wouldn't want to have children grow up in a failed economy where only the rich have anything and their best prospects for jobs are part-time at the local fast-food joint.

[JCMach1]

49. I went expat after 2002... and I would love to come back... but just not possible

looking at jobs in my field is shocking...

I could come back to the US and make 35-55k to start, pay taxes, and pay for expensive insurance...

Or I can continue making about 3x as much mostly tax free. And I also live rent-free as well and get about 3 months off a year. However, I usually work two for two of those and make the equivalent of another 3months salary.

I really really want to come home, but it just can't happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Well by 2020 it will be official

the US is no longer an Empire...

I see actually successor states... but that is just me.

[AngryOldDem]

56. My son, a junior in high school, is already talking seriously about leaving.

Going to Europe. And we have few doubts that he won't do it.

[moondust]

58. That's my advice to anybody young and able enough.

If you're not deeply rooted in the U.S. with lots of family and commitments, go someplace where people have better priorities and have a good life.

[Rebubula]

60. LOLZ

The grass is always greener on the other side....

The rest of the world is just as fucked up as the US. We are not any worse or more special that any other country in regards to the treatment of their peoples and the problems that are faced. Obviously we have some messed up foreign policy issues, but we are still free (regardless of what anyone says - I have not been asked for papers, been arrested for speaking my mind, beaten for attending rallies or anything like it) to speak out, practice our religion (or lack thereof) and elect our politicians.

Moreover, most of these countries (Canada included) will NOT have you unless you can offer something very special. You cannot simply meander into another country and set up camp. If you think immigration laws are tough here - try Mexico, New Zealand or any Scandinavian country.

[proteus_lives]

61. Don't spoil the party!

They think they can just put on a beret/panama hat and set-up shop in a cafe somewhere!

:rofl:

[Yavin4]

66. Maybe It's Because I'm Getting Older

When we age, we get sick and frail. Being in a country where the Rand Pauls can get elected to the Senate is truly frightening. Being in a country without a strong progressive movement is frightening.

Maybe you're young and virile enough to stay and fight. I'm not.

[Rebubula]

69. Older than you

And appears much more grounded in reality - sorry, cheapshot

Again, unless you are some superman\woman with lots of money and a great education\skillset\political ties - you are not going anywhere. Life is a fight.

We have over 300 million people in this country and thousands of different cultures\attitudes\politics so there will be times where a Rand Paul can get elected. Also, it is a time where Dennis Kucinich gets reelected over and over. We elected a black man to be President for fuck's sake and will reelect him in two years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take the good with the bad - work to make it better. Sorry to use a phrase that some people here find offensive - but 'Man Up'.

[Codeine]

74. What do you have that Europe wants?

A skill? A trade? A fortune?

why would they want to bring an older person into their social safety net when that person hasn't paid into it, hasn't worked for it, and hasn't contributed to it? Those nations are all dealing with demographic issues that will soon strain their social care systems; they'll work them out, but they are likely not enthusiastic about burdening themselves further with middle-aged Americans dismayed over a midterm.

[KillCapitalism]

62. Right...if you're not one of the wealthy, well-connected elite, you're not going anywhere.

No one is going to take our poor or our middle class. Many of us will be just as stuck as people in East Berlin were, just without the physical barriers.

Most other countries have minimum education requirements of a PhD, and economic requirements of up to tens of millions of dollars worth of liquid assets. Fuck, I doubt a poor person here could even get into Sierra Leone.

[scheming daemons]

63. One truism that occurs after every electoral defeat

Dems talk about running away.

Repukes talk about "second amendment solutions".



Like freakin' clockwork.



To the OP: Grow a set. Stay here and work to fix this country.

[Kennah]

70. Already considering conditions under which I'd go north, eh

Well before the election, when I was still deluding myself that the Dems would hang on to the House by at least a thread, I told the wife there are conditions under which we might have no choice.

If healthcare reform holds, then we still have a good chance of staying. However, if insurance rescissions come back, we could get targeted.

If I lose my job, but find something that pays less, then we could do a mortgage adjustment and ride things out.

If I lose my job, but find something that pays a whole lot less, then we probably short sell or deed in lieu the house.

If I lose my job, but can't find something else, then we probably lose the health insurance we're paying for out of pocket. At that point, with our pre-existing conditions then we're figuratively screwed. She takes BP and thyroid meds, I take UC and GERD meds, and with insurance it's like a car payment each month. Without insurance we're done, and my wife is probably dead from a stroke.

So, yeah, the possibility of Americans emigrating isn't just chest thumping or whining. It's real.

We made it to the 2010s. Perhaps we'll make it to the 2020s.

[-..__...]

79. At least they'll be doing it legally by going through the proper channels.

[eppur_se_muova]

80. Getting Out: Your Guide to Leaving America

http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=9780976082279

He who waits until 2020 misses out on the market.

[Juche]

81. We already do with health care

For all the made up stories of Canadians coming here for health care (which aren't true), the reality is several million Americans leave each year for health care in India, Singapore, Canada, etc.

So in a way it is already happened. Of course that is just to get a service, not to emigrate to a new nation.

A problem is emigrating to other OECD nations is hard as hell. You seem to need to be in perfect health, under 35, with a college degree in a STEM or medical field with a job lined up to qualify.

[snooper2]

82. The World is going to end in 2012...so WTF are you talking about 2020?

:P

[galileoreloaded]

86. Uhhhhh, Canada doesn't want us. Well, unless your rich....n/t