God is a pedophile

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

A DUer was recounting a RW loon saying Gandhi was a pedophile. This was familiar as the same argument they like to use about Mohamed.

Did those men have sex with "underage" girls? You bet. By the standards of America in 2010 they would be in trouble. As would most non-Western men until very recently and almost all men before the 20th century.

When the average marriage ages in a culture are 21 for men and 14 for women the average man is a "pedophile" if we chose to use the term in the silliest and most trouble-making way we can imagine.

Too me, the fact that Mohamed was a pirate is a more damning charge. In his time and place most men of means had multiple "underage" brides but not everyone was a pirate. Being a pirate (caravan raider) for a living was trangressive then and remains transgressive today.

How many of our founding fathers owned slaves? That would be, by modern standards, a shocking sort of charge and probably an obstacle to a political career.

In todays world President Andrew Jackson would have been imprisoned for murder long before reaching the WH. The guy was in more duels and lethal bar-fights than he could count.(Jackson had so many bullets lodged in him he was in constant agony while President.) But dueling and related macho killing was an accepted part of the social scene Jackson inhabited.

There was a protest of a new statute of Goethe in Germany a while back because he supported the death penalty. WTF?

Since we tar other ancient figures we don't like for having child brides... how old was Mary, mother of Jesus? I will go out on a limb and say she was not 18. And we know that Jesus was the first of a large family. There is little doubt that Joseph, husband of Mary, was a pedophile!!! And by extension, the father of Mary's oldest child was an even worse pedophile.

Historical figures cannot sensibly be condemned for operating within the barbaric norms of their time and place.

They can, however, be praised for refusing to do so.

[jpgray]

1. FDR was a smoker

I know he also interned the Japanese, but this is DU and I just want some replies.

:cry:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. That's different. That sort of ultimate evil transcends time and place.

[Uben]

6. God smokes!

Why else would he make tobacco? Are you people stupid?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

7. So it wasn't a burning bush... just a big smoking beard!

Maybe God is like the Cheshire Cat.

[stray cat]

3. So you think the gods came down from heaven to have sex with children?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. No, only one God did. (I'm no pagan!!!)

[stray cat]

5. Which one?

[More_liberal_than_mo]

11. The one who fathered Jesus

out of wedlock!

[wildbilln864]

22. so what about...

Genesis 6, verses 1 thru 4?

What are the son's of God and why are they not called sons of man? :shrug:

[More_liberal_than_mo]

24. I'm no biblical expert

but I was forced to grow up in the Baptist Church. I can remember being taught in Sunday School that the "sons of God" referred to in Genesis are the angels created by God that turned to the Dark Side and had sex with Adam and Eve's descendent's daughters creating an evil race of Giants which were later destroyed in the Flood. The Dark Angels BTW were sent to Hell.
I see no connection between this and God himself knocking up Mary.
edited for spelling.

[ZombieHorde]

8. The Koran should not be a source of ethics.

I agree we should not look to slave masters for ethical guidance.

I also agree we should not look towards the Holy Bible for ethical guidance. The Holy Bible is very wrong on many ethical issues, such as gay people and slavery.

And we know that Jesus was the first of a large family.

How do we know this?

[jpgray]

9. God cheated on Mary, and was in fact a polygamist

How else would you explain all the pregnant nuns of history?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. The bible

In fact, one of Jesus' younger brothers (James) continued Christianity in Jerusalem after Jesus' death. After the conversion of Saint Paul (Saul or Tarsus) he goes to Jerusalem to ask Jesus' brother if it is okay to proselytize to non-Jews. (And whether adult circumcision was necessary for Christian converts.)

[ZombieHorde]

13. Can I have a link? What evidence has been brought to light? nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. The James Paul meets with in ACTS is generally described as

Jesus' brother in the early church.

What is interesting about that is that even if he was not, nobody in the early church was shocked by the idea. The virgin-hood of Mary was a thing stuck into one gospel to match a prophecy. It was not a big doctrinal deal in the church. (And it is highly debatable whether the prophecy called for a virgin at all, or merely an unmarried woman.)

Also, I am not loking this up, but when Mary and Jospeh accidentally lost Jesus in Jeruselem (when he amazed the pharassies as a child) I believe they had their whole family with them, which is how a couple could miss that little Jesus had been left behind.

The emphasis on the virginity of the Virgin Mary was a much later Catholic focus and led to the weird idea/assumption that Mary died a virgin.

Goodness. She was a married woman...

Speaking of the late configuration of biblical woman -- Mary Magdalene wasn't a prostitute. Another late Papal addition. (She was just a mentally ill woman that Jesus cured by driving demons from her womb.) I mention that because it's striking that the later church created both a perpetual virgin and a whore.

[Taitertots]

10. If god is everywhere, than it is touching little boys

Does this extend to people alive today? The genocide in Sudan is just people being condemned for operation within the barbaric structures of their time and place.

What about recent history? Hitler was just condemned for operating within the barbaric nature of his time and place. The Vietnam War was just people operating within the barbaric nature of their time. When is your cut-off for non-judgment?

Oh wait, this only applies to people you like.

[kenny blankenship]

14. Usually, inquirers after Jesus' paternity point the accusing finger at the "Holy Spirit"

who appears in composite sketches as a white avian character:



Much may have changed in our new "permissive" society, but bestiality is STILL against the law. That is all I have to say.

[TexasObserver]

15. Nature, cultural history, and current exigencies are constantly in struggle.

A culture's circumstances largely define its attitudes about pair bonding and age of consent.

We know that nature considers children adults before most Western cultures. Nature tells us that age 13 or 14 is the most likely natural time for the mating urge to emerge. Brides and mothers age 13-16 are the norm in human existence, not the exception.

But our culture has evolved in many ways that run counter to nature's inclinations. Our children now develop faster physically - but slower emotionally - than our parents, our grandparents, and even us. We adjust our laws accordingly.

I don't like laws that make criminals of teens following strong natural urges when a 16 year old has sex with a 14 year old, or for that matter, when a 15 year old has sex with a 13 year old. It's complicated, but surrounding children with all manner of sexual stimulus in society, honoring and promoting sexuality for successful adults, whle telling teens to parse their hormone driven lust is confusing, at best.

[seabeyond]

16. just jumped in to unrec for title. now jumping back out without reading. nt

[mainer]

17. God has a fetish for baby foreskins, too.

and He insists they be from infants.

[jancantor]

19. Some locations had age of consent as low as 14 until just a few years back

Hawaii, for instance was 14 until just a few years back.

[Taverner]

20. Abraham, Issac, Ishmael and Jacob ALL were schizophrenic and psychotic

Hearing voices...and yet Christianity, Judaism and Islam are based on these people's view of the world.

[jancantor]

21. Let us distinguish between two things

1) pedophilia - having sex with people who have not yet reached puberty.
2) statutory rape - iow having sex with people who are under the legal age of consent, which varies broadly from jurisdiction to jurisdiction

I realize these are somewhat definitional, but my point is there is a difference between statutory rape and having sex with CHILDREN iow prepubescents. The former does not necessarily imply the former. I don't think Rob Lowe is a pedophile, despite the fact that he committed statutory rape. And Fwiw, he picked up the girl at a bar, so how was he to know she WAS underage?

The latter ages are somewhat arbitrary, and one isn't a pedophile if one is (for example) an 18 yr old who has sex with a 17 yr old in a jurisdiction where that is illegal

contrast with a person who seeks out sex with prepubescents. that's a PEDOPHILE and the kind of thing that I find disgusting and should be dealt with very harshly.

In my state, a 40 yr old can have sex legally with a 16yr old. They are neither a criminal, nor a pedophile. One day short of the 16th birthday, on the other hand and that's a serious felony. That doesn't mean the person is a PEDOPHILE if they did so.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Yes. But, only 1/3 of the time when he was being the holy spirit.

In his other 2 guises he was either busy being crucified or benevolently sending the naysayers and other assorted ne'er-do-wells to the eternal barbecue.