Reading DU now makes me angrier more often than it provides me comfort

[Mortos]

I have been a member of DU since 2004, and I have always enjoyed coming here to find refuge from a right wing world that seemingly surrounds me. It has, until recently, been a place where information, support and camaraderie provided a positive boost to my psyche and lifted me up even in the darkest days of the Bush administration.

But now I come here and read posts, even positive posts, that are hijacked by negativity and anger. There is no post complimentary of President Obama or his successes that is not unrecommended by dozens of members or whose original poster is not criticized and mocked. Even posts which ask for only those who have something positive to say are hijacked by hateful rude people who post completely opposite sentiments (always with the justification that this is a discussion board and their opposing opinions are their right and necessary and are usually accompanied by indignant accusations of violations of 1st Amendment rights).

I appreciate the creators of this site and I understand the extremely difficult positions they are constantly forced into by opposing forces within the same general political spectrum. I don't envy their situation.

For me, I have to weigh the pros and cons of continuing to come to a site that, lately, causes me more discomfort and anger than pleasure and peace.

DU is like a relationship that was passionate love at first sight filled with hope and joy but has become stale and resentful as we have grown apart. There are still parts of DU that I love and I remember the good times fondly but I wonder if we can ever re-capture the magic and the passion that once bound us together.

I am sometimes envious of the ignorant masses who know more about who got kicked off Dancing with the Stars than the do about the intricate details of TARP paybacks and GM's IPO but only because they seem so much more blissful in their ignorance than I am with my years of accrued political knowledge. What good does it do me to spend hundreds of hours reading about political minutiae only to feel powerless and angry about things I can't change and to spend a great deal of time in heated debates with people who claim to be on my side?

President Obama has my unfailing support. Democrats have my support. That is why I used to come to Democratic Underground to cheer on my side and to stand shoulder to shoulder with those who cheered along with me.

You can say what you want about republicans and the tea party (and I have said and written tons of negative and true things about those crazy bastards) but they stick together and get behind their candidates and policies. They will give an idiot who is blatantly fucking up the country 8 years in office and elect him twice, unapologetically, and arrogantly support him even while they are reaping the whirlwind sowed by his terrible policies.

We couldn't even stand behind our guy for two years. Some of us just got behind him long enough to give him a good hard shove to the ground and then criticized him for falling.

I don't know if I can leave DU without methadone and a 12 step program but for my own sanity and peace of mind, I have to start trying.

[Hannah Bell]

1. you *can* help change them. why pay attention to politics if you think you can't?

just to feel warm & cozy with a "team"?

it's not all about obama as a person.

it's about our lives, our futures, our kids & neighbors.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Amen Hannah

[TBF]

10. Absolutely -

I only got involved in politics when Obama came on the scene, and perhaps that is why I was so disappointed when I figured out exactly what type of president he would be. I do know it's not about him as a person, or any of the others as far as that goes. I see an inherently unequal Capitalistic system that is eating us alive.

I guess we can be polite as our 401K's are stolen, our jobs are taken, unemployment runs out, social security is slashed ... but it's really hard for me to sit back and quietly accept those positions.

As far as discourse on the website it takes longer, but I've taken more care in the past week to write out my replies with reasoning rather than throw one-liners back and forth. I notice others doing the same.

But as far as just the "rah rah" thing, it is going to be impossible for some of us to sit back and cheer while we see any remaining safety nets we had for folks dismantled. I just can't do it - I can't be a "good german" and not resist.

Take care.

[JuniperLea]

25. "I only got involved in politics when Obama came on the scene"

That explains a lot of your confusion.

[readmoreoften]

40. Oh really. Most of us have been "on the scene" for decades.

Nice "youth baiting".

[TBF]

46. Not young, just not interested. You'll find that many folks

know exactly what is going on in general terms. They know they are being screwed by this system no matter which party has the majority. Most of us live our lives and have no desire to be involved with it.

"Confusion" is supporting a president who continues wars, does nothing about a double-digit unemployment rate, and sets about to dismantle social security - all while claiming to be progressive.

There is no confusion about the class war that is being fought, and the fact that Obama is clearly fighting against us. Meaning "us" the workers - not you owners who are with him.

[ChiciB1]

29. WOW! What A Great Comment! Good On You Hannah Bell... n/t

[NNN0LHI]

3. You figured out we are surrounded by idiots haven't you?

Welcome to the club.

:toast:

Don

[chidy]

9. snort.

NNN is an old timer, you should listen to him.


or: "ignorance is bliss." there's a sports website out there, waiting for you, if the truth gets too hard. and a beer, and/or happy pill. it's your choice, hun.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

4. You are not alone.

[Bluerthanblue]

14. no, we aren't

I think it's important to remember that.

It's easy to be angry and to rant. It's not as easy to be encouraging and to look at the positives that happen.

But it's important.

I don't 'blame' DU- I think the mods and the administration here do a superb job.

It's more the prevailing climate of our society imo.

I've been here awhile, but taken many 'time-outs'.

I don't think I'll ever be able to abandon DU.

We need to hang in there and let our voices be heard when and where we are able.

peace~

:grouphug:

[KharmaTrain]

5. It Was To Be Expected...

Many here weren't around DU during the dark days following the '02 and '04 elections. The combination of frustration and anger brought out the blame game...who lost and why. In those days it was Terry McAuliffe...a very easy target. But there were also many who sniped at others (ask our GLBT friends who were here then). Just like someone who has had a traumatic loss, there's those 12 stages of anger, denial and then resolution...which led to the rise of the netroots. So many of us were pissed off we started to work together rather than against each other which led to the Democrats winning big in '06 and '08.

The sports saying is victory has a million heroes and defeat is suffered alone. We are seeing a bunch of that right now. We're all pissed how the election turned out and right now trying to cope with the new realities. In the meantime there's still plenty of venom and frustration going around. I admit I'm in that camp as this Administration has come up short in showing any resolve and seems to be ready to make even more mistakes...frustrating as all hell.

I always suggest a DU vacation...spend a couple days enjoying life...find some music to listen to, read a book, see a movie, take a walk. Recharge. Then before you start posting, lurk for a day or so. While things suck in the world of politics, it's still a beautiful world out there.

Cheers...

[Mortos]

7. Thank you.

What a genuinely pleasant response. I will take your advice...tomorrow :)

[Mimosa]

33. Karma Train, I remember that period

I read here a bit back then but didn't post. There were some of my GLBT friends (and others) who didn't find me progressive enough. I haven't changed much but now I think I'm identified as part of the left. The Party as a whole has gone rightwards during the past 2 years.

[Le Taz Hot]

6. Really?

Because since the introduction of the new rules I find DU a MUCH better place. Disruptors (those here to spew vitriol as opposed to legitimately debate issues) are behaving themselves (FINALLY!!!) or their posts are getting pulled for edit.

Representatives are elected by individuals and are, therefore, accountable to that electorate. If criticism is put forth in an honest, intelligent, accurate manner, I'm not sure how that doesn't equate to intelligent discourse. DU was never meant to be GroupThink and one doesn't even have to be a Democrat to post here.

I'm not sure if you've had an opportunity to read the new rules but if you haven't, I encourage you to do so. I think we'll see WAY LESS knee-jerk, off-topic, personal attacks because of it. I'm already seeing it and I, for once, am ETERNALLY GRATEFUL for this. I think it forces us to strive for something better than what we've had for the last 9 years.

Peace,

LTH

[tavalon]

8. I left this last summer, quietly and briefly

If you are getting angrier being here than not then either you're in the wrong place or you like the feeling of being mad. They are making some changes around here and I've made a commitment to myself to try to be less snarky and more substantive. Perhaps if you take a short break and check back with us after the War On Christmas (tm), you might find a kinder, gentler DU. For one thing, the House will be being run by the inmates so we will have much to link arms about. Can you imagine how many Oompa Loomp and tan gels gone bad stories there will be?

I for one stood behind him and beside him and I put his feet to the fire just as he said he wanted. And I've been appalled at how insular the WH bubble is but I continue to hope.......

If you wanted a team who sticks together, we aren't it. We are untrained cats as likely to pee on the WH drapes and scratch each other to pieces. To quote Will Rogers : I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat" (here's hoping I quoted him even remotely correctly).

[madrchsod]

11. i have no idea what i do if i did`t stop in here once a day

actually more than that... i guess being retired has it`s perks.

just look at this way--it`s the grand hotel..people come and go but nothing ever changes.

[mmonk]

12. There may be an Obama site out there instead of a site of Democrats

discussing events and policy. You see, the Democrats are divided up between progressives and conservatives. The Republicans are a far right lock step group with no real policy differences except a few minor ones.

[mfcorey1]

13. Preachhhhhhh!! You totally nailed it. nt

[tanyev]

15. I make liberal use of the Ignore feature.

Added plus is that I see so many fewer threads now that it takes me a lot less time to peruse my usual forums.

[jeff47]

16. Unchallenged ideas are worthless ideas

You will run into people who disagree with you. Sometimes that disagreement isn't pleasant. But think about a board where we only have 'safe' conversations. When every thread is saying some variation of "puppies are cute". That's useless.

It's only through defending our personal positions that we understand them. It's that annoying guy trying to poke little holes in your statement that let you refine what you actually believe. It will not always be pleasant, but the result is good for you, as well as the person "debating" you.

[JNelson6563]

18. You have my sympathies.

DU used to be a place where there was a lot do discussion, now there is mostly noise. Lot of screamers about every little thing, much like the corporate media now. It's very sad, I miss how DU used to be a place where we were on the same side and you could escape to constant barrage of Dems Suck that the corporate media is now but not now.

What passes for "discussion" here is hardly that.

Julie

[elias7]

19. I don't post too often...

...but I have been around for quite a while. When I do post, I try to initiate discussion or explore some aspect of an issue. I have found a lot of impatience, snarkiness, dogmatism, one-liners, and snap responses that address peripheral aspects far removed from my point. I share your frustration, and am reminded of a year long struggle at my workplace, where an administrator was hired without adequate vetting, and turned out to be a textbook sociopath, creating an atmosphere of fear, anger, mistrust, and split camps. The healing process-- now that he has finally been fired-- will take time. I create the analogy to suggest that the last 10 years of Bush/Cheney and the Conservative machine that continues to roll out more and more outlandish behavior is functioning in a similar sociopathic manner, resulting in dissension among our ranks, impatience, mistrust, and a loss of good dialogue, open-mindedness, and thoughtfulness.

We're all incredibly frustrated and incredulous at what is happening culturally, and we feel afraid of this momentum and have become impatient with the process. But if we give in to that fear and impatience, we will have lost ourselves. As painful as it is for you, I would say that DU needs you now more than ever to help us heal and remind us of who we are.

[ZombieHorde]

20. Here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=388

[DevonRex]

21. You are not alone.

:hug:

[dionysus]

24. I believe i can flyyyyyyy....

CRUSIE MISSELS!!!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

27. Like this?

:hi:

[dionysus]

36. precisely. wadsworth taught me to use a hanglider made of cannabis stalks when i was a lad...

:P

[Scurrilous]

22. K & R

:thumbsup:

[hfojvt]

23. DU has always been about anger though

In the beginning, it was about anger at Bush and the Republican majorities in the Senate and the House. Sometimes there would also be anger at Democrats for not fighting back hard enough and for some of the votes of the more conservative members, but 90% of it was anger at Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove, Lott, Hastert, etc.

To some extent that has not changed since the target seemed to be The President and whoever else was 'in power' and now those are still the targets, but they happen to be our party. In a couple months, Boehner will provide a new target as he moves to 3rd in line for the Presidency.

However, as to supporting the President, I, like many people on the left, am not going to give unqualified support. I do not support a person. I support policies, and if the people that I voted for decide to let me down and vote for bad policies, then I will let them know it and try to let the public know it so they will face some pressure to change their mind.

Go back to 2001 and suppose Gore had been allowed to take office after winning the election. That would be great, but would I support Gore if he decided to invade Iraq after 9/11? No, I would not, I would still be driving to Lawrence for an anti-war march even if Gore was President.

Suppose Gore got hammered in the 2002 midterms, and then decided to support tax cuts for the rich in 2003 that the Republican controlled Congress kept passing and forcing him to veto. Would I support him if he caved, or would I be demanding that he fight against those bad policies?

I would be doing the latter.

Those are not idle questions, since 1) many people see Obama caving to the Chamber of Commerce and to Republicans instead of fighting for better policies. We would support a fighter, but we will not support a quarterback who keeps fumbling the snap and throwing stupid interceptions and does not even seem to care if we win or lose. 2) it's not an idle question because Clinton did both of those things - a) he bombed both Iraq and Kosovo when he was President and b) he supported and signed tax cuts for the rich.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/71


http://www.cbpp.org/clinttax.htm

"Analyses by the Treasury Department indicate that when fully in effect, the Clinton plan would give the 20 percent of Americans with the highest incomes about the same amount in tax cuts as the bottom 60 percent combined. This is an unusual characteristic for a tax plan proposed by a Democratic President. "

"The Clinton plan would provide the child credit to at least 10 million fewer children than would receive it under the House Democratic tax bill, offered by Rep. Charles Rangel. "

"The Clinton plan would provide the child credit to several million fewer children in near-poor working families than would be the case under the Senate Democratic tax plan that Senator Tom Daschle offered last week."

"Since the Treasury tables do not reflect the effects of the estate tax cuts the Administration is proposing — and the estate tax cuts affect only the heirs of the wealthiest two percent of people who die — the tables significantly understate the degree to which high-income households benefit from the plans."

The Clinton administration proposed estate tax cuts? Something that would benefit the wealthiest 2%. How very progressive of him.

We have been fighting hard here to re-take Congress and to re-take the Presidency and having elected Democrats, we kinda had hopes for some progressive victories. Perhaps we had too high expectations, but we thought our guys had won the elections and we expected them to use their mandate to move the country in the right direction. Instead we are seeing very little progress and very little fight from our leaders. Heck, given the results of the last election, it is very likely that the Bush tax cuts will be extended for the rich. It's almost a 100% certainty at this point. What are we supposed to be happy about again? The health insurance mandate without a public option? The never-ending war in Afghanistan?

[SoCalDem]

26. I've been here since June '01 & I understand your angst

We have evolved..and not all evolution is seamless & comfy.

We have gone from Mom /Dad, brother & cousin against marauding enemy (Bush)
to brother v cousin (Kerry '04)
to brother v brother (Obama/Clinton '08)
to brother v Mom & Dad (Obama'10)

Of course we have also been "invaded" by not-a-few trolls who love to throw gasoline on smoldering embers of old battles too.

In the beginning , DU was a refuge of solace for bruised feelings about the theft of the 2K election, and as we all educated ourselves and drew in more like-minded people, it was inevitable that somewhere down the line we would start to see our differences.

I don't come here as often as I used to, and I have taught myself to just disengage from the rude argumentative ones who routinely show up in thread, just to "piss on the rug".

It's also possible that a lot of political neophytes had overly exuberant expectations, and are now just so angry they cannot control themselves. Politics is an UGLY "business", and the only guarantee, is that a LOT of people will be heartbroken, upset and disillusioned quite often.

[apocalypsehow]

28. Kick, Rec. n/t.

[Bobbie Jo]

30. Recommended.

Good post. :kick:

[quinnox]

31. hmm, DU to me seems as good as ever

I've been here longer than you have and it seems just as good as it ever has been. Not sure what you are talking about but if you are disturbed by DU then I suggest avoiding it.

I'm sure there are many websites out there that are 100% pro-Obama that might be more comfortable for you.

I would hate to see DU turned into a shallow brainless site that only permits enthusiastic pro Obama posts, that would be soooooo boring.

[cottonseed]

32. I hit the rec button.

[EFerrari]

34. If I had a stake in backing policies that aren't good for people, I'd be a Republican. n/t

[readmoreoften]

41. +1

[Number23]

35. Kick and a rec too. You speak for so many with this.

Some of us just got behind him long enough to give him a good hard shove to the ground and then criticized him for falling.

Ain't that the DAMN truth.

[Scurrilous]

37. Indeed. n/t

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tx4obama]

43. I will disregard your list since it is inaccurate. n/t

[H2O Man]

42. Make it better.

There are a wide range of opinions of President Obama being expressed every day on DU. The opposite ends of the spectrum are actually very similar: people who think that Barack Obama is either always right, or always wrong. Those people appear to take offense to anyone who does not share their opinions.

There are also people who recognize that President Obama is not perfect, but has done some difficult and important things; people who like him, but are disappointed that he hasn't met the expectations that the 2008 election raised; people who share most of the same goals as President Obama, but who are frustrated by his tactics; and far more.

DU can be improved by people making rational cases to support their views. It can also be improved by people recognizing that decent people can have very different opinions on President Obama.

[JTFrog]

44. K&R!

[butterfly77]

45. Kicked&Recommended!

[apocalypsehow]

47. ...

:kick: