PHOTO: Thank God, I feel so much safer.

[Bluebear]

"I understand people's frustrations with it, but I also know that if there was an explosion in the air that killed a couple of hundred people ... and it turned out that we could have prevented it possibly ... that would be something that would be pretty upsetting to most of us, including me." - President Obama

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/11/obama-to-abc-pat-downs-worth-the-price/1

[sabrina 1]

1. 'and it turned out we could have prevented it possibly .... that would be

be something that would be pretty upsetting to most of us, including me'

He must have forgotten 9/11 and the guy he recently honored with a medal, George Bush. Who could have prevented it if only he had not ignored over 50 warnings that it was about to happen, and gone on vacation.

They really do have a very low opinion of Americans. They talk to us as if we were children.

[RandomThoughts]

3. Talking to someone as if a child is a way to form a subservent relationship.

If you treat someone as a child, often they will take that role.

However it could be a feeling of parental love, hence why you have to look if the comments deserve any respect in an elder fashion.

Then there is also a long topic on parent, child, and adult form of action in persona from transactional analysis concepts.

Although child is also a way to not seem threatening, and incorporates many concepts of innocence and unconditional love, so sometimes things seen as a child are from those indicators.

[The Midway Rebel]

4. Wrong Bush. n/t

[sabrina 1]

7. You are right, my mistake. But the rest of my comment still

applies. And why was any Bush given a medal? That family has done more to harm this country than any terrorist could dream of.

[jaxx]

47. President Obama is going to give George H. W. Bush a medal.

Is he also going to give George W. Bush one too? When bashing the President it's important to get the facts right. Otherwise it's spreading untruths and none of us want to do that.

[sabrina 1]

57. 'Is he going to give W a medal too?' Who knows, but he has given him

something far more valuable, a virtual pre-emptive pardon the war crimes committed by him and his corrupt administration. Given a choice, I'm sure W would choose the latter. I personally would not care if he received a medal so long as that did not interfere with him being prosecuted for violating our and International laws.

I would think Obama has given him far more than a medal at this point. He has ordered the country to forget those crimes.

Clinton gave the Reagan/Bush gang the same free ticket out of their legal problems also. It seems to be a pattern. Republicans violate our laws, Democrats pardon them and use the powers they managed to make legal without fear of prosecution themselves.

[Shining Jack]

78. + 1.

And he's an accomplice of those crimes in my book for doing this and more. :(

[Swamp Rat]

2. Osama 1 - Grandma 0

[Mimosa]

12. Great graphic, Swamp Rat. I'm a fan of that old Magna Carta.

And the Bill of Rights is pretty good too. :D

[Little Star]

45. Osama 1 - Grandma 0 Made me laugh! n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. I wonder why your black army pfc is still crying?

I now longer think its because of the unnecessary deaths of his comrades
but now a bigger picture.

LIKE GRANDMA IN A WHEELCHAIR.

the photo of that really pisses me off.

[Swamp Rat]

63. Way'at Ichingcarpenter!

:hi:

I'll remove him from my sigline after the last, living U.S. soldier returns home safely... which may be never since we'll likely remain at war forever.

[Ichingcarpenter]

65. I cried when Obama got elected with tears of joy

NOW ITS TEARS OF WOE.

The powers that be have spoken after the last election.

I'm not talking about the 2010 one.

WHY IS'NT GITMO CLOSED YET?

[Swamp Rat]

67. We'd really like to explore that question and others

However, as you know, the thought police will not allow this to happen.

Lah dee dah! Don't worry, be happy!

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Jesus loves you, THX1138.

Take your pills and go to the nearest prayer booth.

[Ichingcarpenter]

69. THX1138 in High Definition is on YouTube.

for free, but you need Narcotics which are critical to understand it and access it both in maintaining compliance among the nations's residents and also for ensuring their ability to conduct dangerous and demanding tasks for long periods of time. The DU inhabitants worship a godlike being known as "OMM 0910" otherwise known as

IchingCarpenter.


No, really I just watched it online recently and it wasn't removed because it was under another name

Strange you mentioned it..... I hadn't seen it for years and the Director cut .....

Well, Dystopias are my intellectual forte after being on DU for so many years
and reading between the lines.

Well worth seeing again if you can handle it........... it was still difficult to watch it
but opened up thoughts that I think Lucas began his career with and never
went further on after he made his money.

[dixiegrrrrl]

62. One of your best to date, swampy.

:hi:

[CrispyQ]

72. One of your best!

Although the Condi one still reigns! ;)

:hug:

[TexasObserver]

5. "Profiles in Cowardice"

This entire approach to airport security reeks of cowardice, from the decision making at the very top to the mindset of the citizens who willingly accept this kind of wretched treatment.

[TorchTheWitch]

9. it absolutely REEKS of totalitarianism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism
Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state, usually under the control of a single political person, faction, or class, recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible.<2> Totalitarianism is generally characterized by the coincidence of authoritarianism (where ordinary citizens have less significant share in state decision-making) and ideology (a pervasive scheme of values promulgated by institutional means to direct most if not all aspects of public and private life).<3>

Totalitarian regimes or movements stay political power through an all-encompassing propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech, mass surveillance, and widespread use of state terrorism.


Are we there yet?

[TexasObserver]

54. Yes, and it is abetted by those who are afraid.

[krabigirl]

90. Yep.

[mwb970]

27. What approach to airport security do you recommend?

If you're going to complain, please offer an alternative. Don't be like the teabaggers.

[tavalon]

31. Scan all cargo

You know we only scan 20 percent now, right? Then educate the public that as long as we continue to behave in a belligerent way to the rest of the world, we have to expect some retaliation but remind them that they are no more safe now with enhanced security theater than they ever were before. Remind them that trains, busses, and even malls and stadiums could be attacked and yet, we don't use security theater there. This is a slippery slope and the only true fix is a multigenerational one in which we help not hurt third world countries.

[MattSh]

40. Good reply...

And after all these good replies, we STILL have people thinking that these "security" measures fulfill some function other than lining somebody's pocket.

[a la izquierda]

48. Thank you!

This is what my husband and I have been saying. Jeez...

[TexasObserver]

56. Those who rally around the new intrusions ignore the reality of cargo.

The whole point of there being an underwear bomber is to foist on the flying public ridiculous measures such as the new ones.

They strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.

This is about (1) the selling of scanning machines and (2) making already pliable citizens more compliant.

The notion that this makes any flyer is safer is utter nonsense believed only by the scared and the gullible.

[CrispyQ]

73. Outstanding reply!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[TexasObserver]

53. False premise. I reject your approach.

Go wag your finger at someone else.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. I have an alternative: Stop being a damned wussie. Life has risks.

Deal with it. Disband TSA and get on with life.

[PavePusher]

97. Scan all cargo and luggage.

Restore the Fourteenth, Fourth, Fifth and Second Amendments in airports and on airplanes.

Run all passengers through chemical detectors to sniff for bomb material traces.

Then let each airlines decide what addition measures to have on their own aircraft. With the following stipulations if they disarm the passengers: They must have armed guards on board at a ratio of 1 per 5 passengers. Every death that occurs due to criminal action will indemnify the airline $100 million to the victims survivors. Any injury will have all medical costs and lost earnings paid for.

[RandomThoughts]

6. It would be upsetting, and rightfully so to those suffering loss from such a thing.

Family and friends, and those that would empathize with that loss.

It would be upsetting to most Americans because of how it would be shown out of perspective on media.

Is people without health care suffering and dying in larger numbers upsetting to people?

It is true things like that should be avoided, but at what cost?

[struggle4progress]

8. Is it your view that we should do no security screening? Or is it your view

that we should always and obviously exempt certain groups of people from security screening?

[Mimosa]

10. Double post.

Please delete this one. Thanks.

[Mimosa]

11. In the UK and America, we aren't supposed to be searched without cause. n/t

[Supply Side Jesus]

16. In regards to criminal investigations n/t

[pintobean]

52. I can't find that stipulation.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[Supply Side Jesus]

59. it's right there

in black and white so to speak

[struggle4progress]

17. As a hippie in the south during the Nixon years, I got stopped constantly

by the police, and I could rattle off the 4th amendment rapidly and flawlessly. I'll agree that freedom from warrantless searches is a legitimate and ancient cultural value, which we can dismiss only at our own peril. Nevertheless, everyone has many ideals and rights and values, and they do not fit together seamlessly but are always in conflict. So -- what exactly do you propose?

[Mimosa]

19. I was an antiwar feminist LGBT activist during the Nixon years. In GA.

Freedom from unwarranted searches isn't a 'cultural value'. It's a Constitutional right.

The solution is worse than the problem. AND if you don't realise that the populace is being trained and conditioned into being docile, passive and intimidated into submission for some Orwellian purpose, I just can't reason with you.

[struggle4progress]

21. You didn't answer my question; you simply attacked me personally

And I don't consider you competent to discuss what I realize or don't realize

[Mimosa]

24. Untrue.

Where is a 'personal attack'? I cannot reason with anybody who cannot see how we are losing our freedoms as citizens.

[struggle4progress]

25. Let me add that it's unconscionably rude of you to put words in my mouth

[treestar]

33. Case law allows for administrative searches

http://llr.lls.edu/docs/41-1kornblatt.pdf

"The language of the Fourth Amendment requires “probable cause” prior to a search.60 Probable cause relates to the likelihood, not certainty, of the existence of criminal activity.61 Administrative searches are an exception" to the rule.


As demonstrated throughout this article, determining reasonableness is the crux of the Fourth "Amendment search issue. In 1973, the Fifth Circuit decided that some situations present a level of danger such that the reasonableness test is per se satisfied.81

Lee Skipwith III was convicted of cocaine possession after an airport screening search revealed drugs, but not weapons.82 In United States v. Skipwith, the Fifth Circuit affirmed the Middle District of Florida, holding that the search was constitutional.83 The Court found that a balance must be struck between the harm and the need to determine what is reasonable.84 “When the risk is the jeopardy to hundreds of human lives and millions of dollars of property inherent in the pirating or blowing up of a large airplane, the danger alone meets the test of reasonableness.”85"

[jberryhill]

86. So you oppose the metal detector and luggage xrays, correct?

Those are searches.

[SheilaT]

13. I went to work as a ticket agent

at National Airport in Washington Dc (DCA) in 1969. I was around when the hijackings to Cuba created the first security measures. the intention was to detect guns and stop the hijackings. It was quite successful. But there were flaws. Early on, I was asked to identify someone who'd supposedly threatened in some way. I selected someone, and to this day I'm not sure I selected someone who really was a threat.

There is no perfect security. As lont as passengers are allowed to fly, as long as cargo is allowed on the planes, ther is the possibility that something bad might happen. I am sort of joking when I make posts that say we should all be cavity searched and then only allowed to board totally naked, or maybe with airline issued paper drapes (somewhat like hospitals issue.) The important thing here is that Americans supposedly demand total and perfect security. In reality, they don't, but our government officials like to pretend that we do. Sometimes, when I read stories of bonbings in other countries, I wonder how we'd respond if such things happened here. I think that in reality Americans are strong and resilient, and would respond appropriately. But our government and our media would push the idea that we are all terrified, and that we would give up any liberty to achieve perfect security. In truth, perfect security does not exist, is not obtainable. But since September 11, 2001, we've all been beaten down by the idea that we must have perfect security, that we cringe in the face of anything else.

I want to state that I think we are all much better than that. We can stand up to whatever happens. But if we all learn to quake in the face of the corporate media which tells us over and over that everything is dangerous, that we must give up all personal freedom for the illusion of security, then all is lost.

[struggle4progress]

68. I think it's clear that acts of terrorism are rare, and I also think it's clear

that some will unavoidably happen, no matter what we do. It's also very plausible that taking some precautions reduces the risk by making some scenarios more unlikely. And it's a certainty that whenever a terrorist event occurs, there will be an organized and effective political backlash, following a rather predictable playbook. So, as a political matter, it really isn't an option to do nothing

There's quite a lot of noisy bloviating about what we should or should not do. The OP falls into that category: it advances no definite thesis; it simplv sneers. One cannot learn anything from it. Various people might "agree" with it because they are racists who don't think white people can be terrorists, or because they want everybody over fifty waved through security, or because they have a financial interest in using sniffer dogs. Who knows?

[Matariki]

14. It's my view that agents of the government keep their fucking hands out of my pants.

[struggle4progress]

20. So, explain to us how to solve the following political problem:

a terrorist attack will always be followed by noisy Monday morning quarterbacking and calls for draconian security measures

What to do beforehand?

[Union Scribe]

26. The bigger problem is that you think this is a political problem.

Violations of rights should not be tolerated or fought based on what is politically expedient.

[woo me with science]

43. [phone] nt

[struggle4progress]

60. This is a political bulletin board, so some of us are interested in political questions

And political questions are not always about "expediency"

But thanks for playing

[tavalon]

35. Well, there is a long range solution

Stop behaving like a belligerent empire in the rest of the world and be benevolent to all who are less fortunate. After a few generations, the children of the children of fundamentalists won't understand the desire to hurt us.

If we aren't going to do that, and it,s likely that we aren't, then we just need to face that we will be targeted and we'll have to take our lumps for it.

[struggle4progress]

71. I believe there is such a thing as blowback, but I don't think it's a complete

explanation for terrorist activity

[woo me with science]

42. Succinct and well-said. nt

[tavalon]

32. Random screening and full cargo screening

[Mimosa]

15. The body language in the OP photo is revealing.

Look at the body language. The hands on hips officer has assumed that old timey 'authority figure dominant' pose. Granny looks submissive. Imagine being 70, disabled (note the wheelchair), only wanting to travel to visit family, and having those harsh younger strangers invading your personal space.:(

If I were she, I think I'd break down and weep. This is what America has come too?

[mwb970]

28. I see what you're saying.

BUT - if we announce that we won't check 70-year-old women, wouldn't the terrorists simply recruit 70-year-old women (some of whom are fairly easy to fool) to carry their explosives, probably unwittingly, right around the security checkpoint? I don't see how the "Why are we checking HER?" people can address this point.

:shrug:

[woo me with science]

46. You address it by profiling.

No, they will not simply pick an old woman at random at the airport and stuff a bomb into her crotch. It is not a two-minute process to recruit someone to be a suicide bomber, and you cannot just slip a bomb quickly into someone's pants.

They will find someone ahead of time, and that person will have ties that can be discovered with proper profiling.

[BlueMTexpat]

18. There is absolutely no reason why, with all the technology that is

available, that there cannot be less intrusive alternatives available - after nearly 10 years of this sh**!

This is like using an Uzi to swat a fly (albeit a VERY dangerous fly - yes, I DO understand that). That grandmom-type woman could be me. I am subjected to a pat-down every time I fly because I wear three gold bracelets that have always been just a size too small so that it actually hurts to take them off. It's simply easier - and less painful - to let them be and undergo the indignity because they were a gift from my husband and meaningful to me. Even if I did take the bracelets off, I would still set off alarms because, since 2003, I have had a prosthetic device in my right hip.

Yet, given my professional career, there is not one facet of my life that is not already an open book to the Powers That Be. Further, I almost always have the same travel patterns and there is no reason whatsoever to believe that I would ever be a threat to my country - or to anyone else - except possibly in rhetoric.

Yes, it would be "pretty upsetting" to think of explosions in the air killing people and yes, realistic precautions are necessary. But the particular explosions in the air that we are talking about were also accompanied by plenty of meaningful warnings from the intelligence and FBI communities - had anyone bothered to heed them. While TSA and others are patting me down and inconveniencing everyone else, the crazies just keep laughing at this focusing on the wrong people. Their strategy has succeeded more than they could ever have hoped. It is the threat of violence rather than the violence itself that has become the most powerful of all.

[BlueMTexpat]

22. I will add, however, that TSA and other personnel (in countries other than the US)

who have performed pat-downs on me have been unfailingly professional and courteous - even apologetic.

But I still feel outraged, especially given all that the Powers That Be know about me.

[Mimosa]

23. You've nailed it, BlueMTexpat

They can check out our creds when we book a flight. They can use observational techniques and confirm the booking with a double code supplied with ticketing. If people can get credit cards in less than a minute at Amazon or QVC, the ID/credit system obviously works. Just add some security coding with names and social secutity or some other number. There are probably many different things which can be done.

Better trained security personnel, trained to be observant and professional as are air marshals, is the way to go. I am suspecting the TSA at base is a gov employment boondoggle.

[mwb970]

29. I'm curious.

Does the "professional career" you mention having involve airport security? If so, you should have said so. If not, why do you assume that you know more about the problem, potential solutions, etc., than the people who are dealing with this directly? I mean, maybe you do, somehow, but some of the people involved in creating this system have been working in the security area their whole lives. Are they all just stupid fools compared with you?

:shrug:

You say there MUST be less intrusive alternatives available, but you don't mention any of them, aside from endorsing "realistic precautions". (And who decides what precautions are "realistic"? You again?) You say we are focusing on the "wrong people", but if we announce we will not focus on grandmothers, the terrorists will simply recruit grandmothers, will they not?

:shrug:

Your post conveys a lot of emotion but not much information, I'm sorry to say.

[BlueMTexpat]

70. Wow - what did I ever do to you?

Until my retirement (and still on occasion, as requested), I have been involved with USG and international instutitutions at a senior management level and a lot of my international travel has been either related to that or with family/personal business - pretty much of a pattern. When I worked with the USG, let us just say that my security clearance was at an exceedingly high level - much higher than that of those who routinely pat me down today.
To get that clearance, I had to be investigated practically from the moment of my birth to whenever the clearance or update was requested. The first of those investigations happened in 1964 when there were a lot fewer people getting them and when they really took the time to check up. Since then, they've just done follow-ups. Believe me, however, they have checked with EVERYONE! In fact, one FBI agent who had been assigned to clear me actually was a school colleague of my next-door neighbor. That was in MT back in the days when we either all knew or were related to each other in some way anyway so that is how I knew exactly what was going on, when and with whom.
All those records are on file and would certainly be accessible to TSA, if anyone ever bothered to coordinate. Perhaps they are trying to do exactly that but are hindered by the fact that the USG, thanks to government restructuring and attempts to privatize, contracts so much out to different private companies that they can't get one coherent system to function so that the agencies can, or are even encouraged to, communicate effectively with each other.
When I travel from here (Switzerland) to the US, whether on business or for private reasons, I must always communicate passport and contact information at least one week in advance to the carrier. There is plenty of time to check me out, particularly as my life really is an open book to bureaucracy. If people were really interested in screening potential terrorist threats rather than inconveniencing passengers, they would after ten years have devised some way of communicating to the poor screeners who are stuck with the dirty work that certain passengers at least are highly unlikely risks.
Once again - no terrorist incident has ever happened in a vacuum - there has always been plenty of "chatter" and communication among various security agencies beforehand that we never hear about until after the event. Under Richard Clarke's tenure, the "chatter" was taken seriously. Under BushCo, Clarke's advice and expertise were dismissed and the "chatter" was ignored unless it confirmed what they wanted to hear. The 9-11 tragedies were a direct result of that and we today are all stuck with the consequences.
Why do you insist that I provide details to you about my opinion? It's my opinion and I have a right to it, just as does anyone else without necessarily having to have a background in security. What is your motive?
Anyone who wants to know what practical steps I believe should be taken had better a) have authority and authorization to do something practical about them and b) be prepared to pay me a very hefty fee for the suggestions.

[KG]

30. more change I can make believe in.

woohoo. :eyes:

[treestar]

34. Interesting they chose the proverbial old white lady

From whom we are completely safe, due solely to her age and whiteness.

They could have tried to make the same point using a young black man.

Racist bullshit.

[Obamanaut]

37. Why not select 'ageist' or 'sexist' to be upset about? nt

[muffin1]

39. Because it doesn't fit the new meme.

You know...if one has issues with Obama's policies, that person is obviously a racist. :eyes:

[treestar]

50. I'll leave that to you.

But you're right. That's why I made my example a young black man. How much effect would this photo have on you? And what are the statistics? Yeah right, the people pulled over for that extra scrutiny. Which probably including plenty of young, nonwhite men.

I think their choice of a frail looking old white lady was deliberate. So sue me.

[de novo]

51. You can't be serious. Can you?

[Forkboy]

58. Yes he can lol.

[woo me with science]

84. Oh for pete's sake. nt

[jberryhill]

87. If it was a young semitic-looking man, there would be nothing to be upset about /nt

[Boudica the Lyoness]

91. I look at the photo and see a person in their 80's

who needs a wheelchair, being hoisted up and molested. She looks frightened and she is one we are supposed to respect and protect from frights. It never occurred to me she was white.

For some reason I wouldn't have been as offended if it had been someone who looked like my black (bi-racial) 35 year old son being searched, because he is better able to deal with it, being a TSgt in the US air force.

Go on, call this mama racist why don't you!

BTW No one should be violated by the TSA. Not white, black and every shade in between should be groped. Nobody of any age should be subjected to the treatment TSA is dishing out. And not my war veteran son who put himself on the line for you.

Reinforce the cockpit doors and bring in the sniffer dogs and if you are frightened to fly under those conditions then I suggest you don't.

[Bluebear]

94. Thank you.

[ixion]

36. Well, we certainly don't want to upset Obama... so everyone line up for groping!

:eyes:

[FlyByNight]

38. She probably had it comin'

:sarcasm: :puke:

[pruple]

41. She should have gone Greyhound.

If you don't want to be groped don't fly. Until they put scanners in the bus terminals.

[xchrom]

44. ooooh -- that is one scary granny there.

i feel much safer.

i mean -- really? --

[lib2DaBone]

49. Iraq HAD NO WMD's... the air was NOT safe to breathe at ground zero..

Both the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber had shadowy ties with the CIA..

Bring the troops home.. quit killing women and children in Pakistan.. they don't hate us for our "Freedom".

[ProudDad]

66. They also came from OVERSEAS!!!

This bullshit porno scanning and enhanced groping will not apply to those coming in from overseas...

Like Mr. Shoelaces and Mr. Underpants...

Unless the "Imperial War Machine(tm)" decides to flood the airports of the Earth with troops and scanners and rubber gloves...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. Osama ben Granma?

[ProudDad]

64. This sort of thing is inevitable in a Dominator Hierarchy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9631943#9633905

[IDemo]

74. Reminds me of the scene from "Airplane"

Bearded, camo wearing, automatic rifle wielding dude strolls through an airport security point, but the little old lady who follows is stopped with a "hold it right there, Granny!"

[Jamastiene]

75. Grandma got runned over by the TSA.

Flying home to our house Christmas Eve.
You can say there's no such thing as paranoia,
But as for me and grandpa, we believe.


K&R

[Vinca]

76. All we can hope is that a suppository bomber never appears.

[Sabriel]

77. I was thinking "Vagina Bombologues" n/t

[cottonseed]

79. It would be so much better if they searched only young dark men wouldn't it bluebear?

[WillyT]

81. Makes Me Ashamed To Be An American

:evilfrown:

[firedupdem]

82. OMG an old white lady going through what everybody else has

to go through! The horror!

[Bluebear]

85. That's what you take from that photo? Wow. nt

[woo me with science]

83. Recommended. nt

[jberryhill]

88. Faces of Recent Terrorists

Prizes go to first to correctly identify each one.

[Renew Deal]

89. They should x-ray the wheelchair

:nuke:

[Boudica the Lyoness]

92. It's just a matter of time before these morons cause a fall

and someone gets a broken hip.

[Warren DeMontague]

93. OTOH, she is kind of cute.

:hide:

She could frisk me.

Just sayin'.

[LisaL]

95. If you are a male you are getting a male TSA agent to frisk you.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Aye, I realize that.

But someone needed to say it.