If what they are saying on KO right now is true.....

[babsbunny]

Then I am through! I have been hanging on as long as I can. No more. They are playing "Political Theater." Obama will extend the tax cuts for the richest Americans. Repubs will get the credit.

[polichick]

1. Yep - that's some plan! nt

[eleny]

2. Not my idea of standing ground for "ordinary" Americans

That segment with Fineman was such a disappointment.

[Poll_Blind]

3. It's commercial break- what did I miss!?!? n/t

PB

[earthside]

9. Howard Fineman.

Five to six Senate Democrats will only vote for extending all tax cuts.

Obama will be left, therefore, with signing a two to three year extension bill ... Repuglicans taking credit for compromising with a 'temporary' extension.

[Poll_Blind]

10. Ah shit. Thanks for the info.

:cry:

PB

[arcane1]

22. Which five to six, did he name them?

It seems more sensible for our anger to be directed at them!

[ProSense]

29. "Five to six Senate Democrats"?

That leaves a 52 to 53 majority voting against an extension.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

52. Also, lest we not forget

the filibuster option that ANY Democratic Senator can use to prevent a vote on extension. 60 votes is the "new 51", right?

[dana_b]

75. so much for being "concerned" with the deficit

giant hypocrites

[pacalo]

18. Self-deleted.

[BrklynLiberal]

4. and Obama will get the blame..and it will be a HUGE talking point in 2012

[bvar22]

53. If Obama signs it...

he DESERVES the blame.

[BrklynLiberal]

63. VERY true!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. +1000!

[MindandSoul]

5. I'm afraid I agree! If Obama let's us down this time, I'm done with him!

[Individualist]

6. Of course it's true.

Obama is a New Democrat.

[justinaforjustice]

50. No, Obama is a Traditional, Old Fashioned Republican.

When the fiscally conservative but socially quasi-liberal corporate Republicans, otherwise known as the Rockefeller Republicans, got chased out of the official Republican Party by the religious extremists, fiscally and socially conservative Republicans, they entered the Democratic Party, under the banner of the Democratic Leadership Council. Having lots of money, they successfully got their one of their two DLC candidates (Obama and Clinton)elected. Obama, as a DLC Republican, is carrying out the policies which are in their class interests, not those of the majority of less than wealthy Democrats. That explains why he didn't fight for single-payer or card check-off legislation. Those are contrary to corporate Republican interests. That explains why he put the corporate banksters who wrecked our economy in charge of "saving" our economy by bailing out the corporate banksters.

The game plan seems to have been that Obama would also try to attract the corporate Republicans who remained within the Republican Party back to unity with the DLC Republicans, thus all the pandering to the Congressional Republicans in the name of "bi-partisanship". Obama's hoped for unity with other corporate Republicans does not include the religious extremists or the Newt Gingrich extremists. Obama's corporate supporters fancy themselves as the rational Republicans, so they don't oppose the extension of unemployment benefits. They fear that cutting those benefits might set off actual rebellion. Can't have that, need to keep the lower classes quiet, while still sufficiently desperate to take very low wage jobs, should they appear.

Don't expect Democratic Party policies from a DLC Republican president. It's not going to happen. We Democrats who knocked on all those doors, donated our hard-earned money, and drove our neighbors to the polls have been thoroughly suckered into electing a Republican, albeit a rational one.

No use pleading for him to carry out his campaign promises. Those were simply glittering vote bait. Time to re-build the Democratic Party and elect real Democrats into every conceivable political office, including the highest ones. We need to re-mobilize all that energy we spent getting a Republican elected and put it to old fashioned community organizing. We are the ones we were waiting for, time to get back to work.

[glitch]

70. Excellent summary of our situation. nt

[Celtic Raven]

80. This needs to be an OP

:thumbsup:

[Ninga]

7. I am sick. I am in a constant state of upset these days. I go from being mad to

sad. . Whata mess .

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lob1]

11. And how are they going to pay for the richest tax cuts?

Maybe with our social security?

[abelenkpe]

19. Seems like it :(

[Jackpine Radical]

25. Damn. You beat me to it.

That's exactly what flashed through my mind.

[Incitatus]

39. or refusing to raise the debt ceiling unless we give it to them ?

[glitch]

72. That they would hit SS at the exact same time they extend tax cuts for the super rich

tells us more than we want to know.

[BeyondGeography]

12. Pretty dispiriting

Letting the tax cuts expire would be the gutsy and proper thing to do. Make it clear that, as long as you are President, the wealthiest will not get their cut, and refusal to come up with an alternative is their fault, not his.

Seriously, Barack, what's the fucking point of your presidency if all you do is cave whenever you don't get to 60 votes in the Senate. Stand for something or stand for nothing.

[Individualist]

15. There's quite a difference between caving and collusion.

See post #8.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeyondGeography]

49. The poster was tombstoned for that

Bad role model for you.

[Lorien]

74. Yep. nt

[Cirque du So-What]

13. Could this represent the lighting of the fuse?

Coming on the heels of repugs shooting down any possibility of extending unemployment benefits, could this 'Christmas gift' for the rich finally spur Americans to take action? If not, then what WILL it take?

[Mnemosyne]

78. It will take their children eating out of garbage cans and dying from a

minor cut on their finger.

And I'm an optimist...

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Like we used to say back home

Don't matter who you vote for...

We're at the end of Empire and it will get FAR WORST...

I will still vote, but it really don't matter...the empire is now eating the core.

[murray hill farm]

31. Yep!!!!!

You are right! That really is where we are at this point.

[tularetom]

17. The republicans have backed him into a corner and will beat him about the head and shoulders

over this "tax cut" for the next two years.

And what will he have gained? Alienating his base while being played for a sucker by his enemies which will weaken his stranding with independent voters.

He may be a good president but he sure is a piss poor politician.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

21. I would really like to hear him articulate his "win"...

...total honesty, total transparency, what does he think he is going to hold in his hand at the end of his four years?

[NorthCarolina]

20. Don't worry, he's playing 3 dimensional chess with the Republicans

and in reality he has them by the balls. :hide:

[tularetom]

27. Congratulations on being the last American

who actually believes the "Obama is playing chess while his opponents are playing checkers" line.

They're playing pin the tail on the donkey while he is still looking for the checker board.

[NorthCarolina]

30. I guess I should have included the

:sarcasm: tag

[Skittles]

43. most of us got it, NC

indeed :D

[NorthCarolina]

46. ..

[GrpCaptMandrake]

51. The other night

on the show, I got the best replacement for the "11-Dimensional Chess" theme I've yet heard.

"Nah, they're just re-arranging the stickers on their See n' Say: "The duck says . . . "Moooooo!" I had to pot down the mic I was laughing so hard when it happened.

[bvar22]

54. Obama IS Playing Chess...

Sacrificing the Pawns (Working Class) to protect the Royalty (The Rich).
It couldn't be clearer.

[Blue_In_AK]

57. Good analogy.

[disillusioned73]

65. Ding....

man, that realy sums it up... ughh, i'm depressed

[dana_b]

76. perfect analogy

and we're soooo sick of it!

[Blaukraut]

23. If they freeze fed wages AND extend the tax cuts over 250k, I'm right behind you

I've been largely silent and hopeful despite a growing sense of disappointment in President Obama, but agreeing to an (even temporary) across the board extension of the tax cuts, while freezing federal employee wages (most of whom make a lot less than what is generally assumed) and freezing social security increases is a slap in the face of the middle class. The freezes won't even make up a tenth of what the tax cut extension will cost, so it's a gimmick at best.

[senseandsensibility]

24. Everyone with eyes, ears, and a brain

knew this would happen. We knew, and some yelled about it and got slammed for it. Others pretended not to know. But we knew. The signs have been there for a long time, just as they are there for the catfood commision.

[whathehell]

28. Primary Challenge..or Third Party in 2012......

That's my response to the fraud that's been perpetrated on us.

[NorthCarolina]

55. Either suits me fine. If a Liberal is in the running, he/she will have my vote.

[whathehell]

62. Damn right...I'm sick of this happy horseshit. n/t

[Still a Democrat]

34. Um, nothing has happened

This is talk.

[cottonseed]

26. So are you done now? rr when you find this is true? or some other time?

[Skip Intro]

32. I have a feeling that the unemployment benefits extension is tied to this.

I'd make the repubs go first.

same as it ever was...

[liberalmuse]

33. I'll wait to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Honestly, liberals can go off half-cocked about as much as conservatives. Sad, but true. I'm sick of certain liberals - never in my life did I ever think I'd feel this way. I've left DKos. I'm sick of the anti-Obama shit, but then again, if he says with his own lips that he's going to support tax cuts for the rich - he's lost me. But then again, there are plenty of anti-Obama shit stirrers on the left. Who do you trust these days? I'm fucking sick of people with their stupid, narrow-minded agendas. I don't give a shit which side you're on. You ALL suck if you have a short-sided, narrow-minded agenda that you won't budge from. I'm talking to you, Obama haters.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

37. "whatever progress was achievable into mediocre accomplishments"

Can you list them?

[dionysus]

41. asking for the dreaded LBL? don't waste your time. he could give people a brick of gold, and they'd

complain that it was too heavy.

;)

[Fgiriun]

42. Everything

ranging from persecution of the neocon war criminals to healthcare. Starting from his initial concession to republicans by passing the $787 billion bill which should have been over one trillion to effectively stimulate the economy through reconstruction/educational/growth targeted programs and not 1/3 worth of tax cuts.

[dionysus]

44. you seem not to comprehend that the congress passes bills, not the president.

[Fgiriun]

45. So what?

Bills are often proposed or collaborated by the president just like with any congressman. Do you actually think a congressman will sit through and write an entire bill himself? Of course not. I surely understand the process but I also know that the President has the power to veto bills as he sees fit. He also has the power to push for his party congressional leaders, who were all in control of their respective chambers, to fight back and not concede to blind republican bullshit.

[dionysus]

48. and we know everything said between him and reid and pelosi?

you know what he has or hasn't done internally for these bills?
there's no way for either of us to know that.

[Mnemosyne]

79. Does Obama not have the same ability to create 'signing statements' as * did for 8 long years? n/t

[newspeak]

68. actually Little Boots is the one who drove the nail in the coffin

since he could not privatize social security and allow his sociopathic, greedhead friends more access to our money, he knew the "police" themselves good old boys were in trouble on Wall Street. He had to come clean and that bailout was before Little Boots left office. It's actually more like thirty eight billion instead of seven hundred billion, as per Maddow. However, it is quite amazing how many people in this country have such a short memory span or they love being pummeled and kicked to the curb.

It's like some Americans either believe in the free enterprise tooth fairy with no regulations, no worker's rights or they have an abusive daddy syndrome. Take your pick. This next session is going to be a hell of a ride for many Americans, of course, not the rich and infamous.

And Little Boots passed that tax cut to the wealthy about two years in his first term--how many jobs did that create?

[dionysus]

36. thank you.

[butterfly77]

38. Does anyone here..

ever write the whitehouse to let them know how you feel,maybe he is not hearing enough from Democrats maybe the teabaggers are writing him and he really believes this is how many feel...

[tavalon]

66. I've taken the last week off

Generally, I write between two and seven times a week. Good enough for you?

[dana_b]

77. I have, butterfly

at least 4 or 5 times. You're right - they need to hear from ALL of us.

[TransitJohn]

40. And we thought we all suffered from outrage fatigue under Bush*. n/t

n/t

[renate]

47. I think I have hope fatigue, actually

And to a large extent it's not really Obama's fault. I still have Election Night 2008 on my DVR. It was one of the high point of the past decade for me, when the forces of evil didn't win after all and Bush and Cheney actually left. I thought Everything Was Going To Be Different From Now On. That was my fault. And it's my fault that I keep trying to hang on to what I felt then instead of adjusting to the way things really are.

I don't understand why Obama--whom I still admire and respect very, very much--seems to start off all negotiations with the Republicans with a compromise. I really don't. (And if he doesn't actually start out that way, he needs a new PR department, because it sure does seem like that's what he does.) Who is advising him? Why does he not realize that he will NEVER get the Fox News crowd to feel anything but contempt for him? On the other hand, I didn't expect, and couldn't have expected, how bullheadedly stubborn and obstructionist the Republicans would be, regardless of the effect their obstreperousness would have on the lives of real people, and that they would get away with it. I don't blame Obama from being stopped at every turn, even on legislation the Republicans wrote or co-sponsored themselves, just to deny him any victory, no matter whether it's good for the country. It's just so unbelievable that... well, that I don't quite believe it, I guess, so I still keeping hoping that things will magically be the way I thought, two years ago, they would be by now.

I believe that Obama, unlike Bush or Cheney, truly wants to do the right thing, and I still trust that he will try to do it, so for me, it's hope fatigue, not outrage fatigue. But it's still kind of fatiguing.

[BzaDem]

59. Legislation is often not a negotiation. It is often a dictation of terms.

A negotiation occurs when both sides have an incentive to act and a disincentive for not acting. But when one side has no incentive to act, they could walk away at anything that doesn't match their proposal exactly.

In this case, we needed 60 votes to pass bills in the Senate, and we had 60 Democrats (and 0 Republicans). This meant the 60th most liberal Democrat (Joe Lieberman/Ben Nelson) were essentially dictators. The "negotiation" was: you give me everything I want exactly, to the letter -- and in return, I'll vote for the bill.

Now, with the 60 votes gone, even that form of negotiation no longer happens. The only bills that pass are bills that Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins would support. That's it. Again, there's little to no negotiation, because Republicans have no incentive not just to get up and leave the room.

[Kltpzyxm]

61. hope fatigue

that's a great term.

[Blue_In_AK]

56. It's pathetic.

That's all I can say. If tax breaks for the rich create jobs, then where the hell are the jobs?? They've had quite a while now to demonstrate that their tax scheme works, and it's been an utter failure for 95% of the country. Why aren't the Democrats and the President standing up for the American people? For that matter, why aren't the REPUBLICANS standing up for the American people? They all ought to be ashamed of themselves. Bought and paid for, almost every one.

The American people are pretty stupid to elect some of these bozos.

[SOS]

71. That should be the primary (only) talking point

The Bush tax structure has been in place for ten years and the result is ZERO new jobs!
The Dems need to hammer home the point that tax cuts for the rich did not produce a
single new job in 10 years.

[Matariki]

58. What does it mean when people say "they're through"?

Are you moving to another country? Quitting paying attention to politics? Joining the Green Party? Jumping off a bridge (hope not that one)?

What does "being through" entail?

[Raine]

60. Through defending, supporting, donating,

working for etc and looking out for themselves because no one else is going to would be my guess.

edit: added one word

[laughingliberal]

64. There was only one way to play it. Introduce a bill with the middle class tax cuts only and let...

the Republicans vote against it. The House would pass it. Then call the asshats in the Senate out daily for failing to support the middle class and favoring the billionaires. Very few people in the country are on the side of the billionaires right now.

If they don't do it this way, it's obvious they want the billionaires' tax cut extended.

[glitch]

73. Couldn't be more clear. nt

[formercia]

67. Your check is in the mail

Ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies.