Why bother? The President and his advisors don't listen to us

[DainBramaged]

What's the point of even complaining. Let's just make DU into THE LOUNGE because we are invisible to our leaders.

We are the base, and we are ignored. Our leadership takes ALL of it's ques from the Right, why even have a D in front of their names?


This is infuriating and bullshit. California Peggy is right, WE didn't elect a Republican, but it looks like we got us one. And without a spine too.


:puke:

[SidDithers]

1. ...

Sid

[City Lights]

8. Ah, something other than "unrec. nt"

Impressive!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Radical Activist]

2. And here we get to the heart of the strategy.

Get you to give up hope, give up taking meaningful action, give up on Obama and Democrats, and maybe give up on electoral politics completely. That's what all the cynical griping is designed to do.

[DainBramaged]

9. Sure, the President thought this out so that we here at DU would give up

they don't even fucking come here, give me a break.


School is out and this administration failed.

[AnArmyVeteran]

3. Every republican president before Reagan were more to the left than Obama.

It's sad...

[Winterblues]

4. They still believe with all their heart that we have no choice.

Our vote is taken for granted because the alternative would be so terrible..I am finding the alternative to be very simular to what we currently have..I doubt I will cast a vote for the Democrats anytime in the near future. I will not cast a vote for a Republican either so I guess I will just keep my vote to myself and accept whatever come our way. Pretty much the choice I have now anyway..

[leeroysphitz]

38. Yes those seem to be our only options. If only there were a third choice...

[canadianbeaver]

5. I cried this morning knowing that the f'ng rich are gonna take more....

I can't believe the way I feel right now....I am not an American, but I have a sister and brother who are....they are young liberals...I see nothing for them and their future....they will be slaves to the rich....as we all will. I am so glad I never had any children...so glad.

sometimes living really sucks.....and the people you think will be able to change the status quo just seem to add to it all and confirm your worst nightmares of life under the thumb of the rich and greedy. There seems to be no end to their obscene coveting of wealth....

if the tax cuts get extended for the rich....its everyones kiss goodbye to having a happy healthy life....where you share and help those in need. Is it really so hard to understand.???

[Autumn]

6. When they were doing insurance finance reform,

I called and wrote the White House probably about 15 times. Imagine what a fool I felt like when I found out about the deal he had made to kill the public option.

[somone]

7. He wasted a truly historic opportunity

but I'm sure he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Uben]

10. Maybe he did know what he was doing.......

.....and maybe he thought it was best for the country. I'm positive the man is smarter than most here, and I also believe he has our BEST interests at heart.

How do you negotiate with "no" !

That's what he faces. We are not charged with getting something done. He is. Even the damned blue dogs fucked him over.
I wouldn't blame him for not running again, I wouldn't. But, I think he is doing whatever possible to make sure we do have a chance in 2012 without letting the economy slide back into recession. Right now, that means extending the tax cuts for the 2% so the tax cuts for everyone else do not expire and send the economy spiralling back down, just in time for the 2012 elections.

I don't pretend to think I know better than the smartest minds in the democratic party. A lot here do.

[BlackHoleSon]

16. Wow

That's an incredibly obsequious remark.
But anyway, I think the problem people here have is with the "intentions" side and not the "smarts" side.

[atreides1]

18. Best for the country! How?

You don't negotiate, you use the very same tactics that your predecessor used!

And while "looking forward" is a great bumper sticker saying, it's a stupid concept when the opposition party are filled with those who want to see you fail.

Caesar looked forward, and as he was, those he trusted stabbed him to death, on the steps of the Roman Senate.

This President isn't that smart, a smart man doesn't keep trying to pet the rabid dog that bit his hand off!

[NCarolinawoman]

26. No one forced him to pack the deficit commission with anti-"entitlement" people.

Where are his good intentions? It seems he is so concerned with getting the approval of Republicans that he doesn't seem to mind that they are most likely laughing at him.

It has become a very very sad situation. The country is suffering and I feel we are leaderless.

[ljm2002]

27. You're right, how dare we even begin to think we know better than...

..."the smartest minds in the democratic party".

As to your question of how you negotiate with "no", I can tell you one thing for certain: you do not start by acceding to their demands. Yet that is what President Obama has done over and over again. It appears he is doing so right now with regard to the tax cuts for the wealthy. You start from your preferred position and you fight tooth and nail for that. Unfortunately he seems to think you can appease bullies. You cannot. Well, either that, or he agrees with their positions, which unfortunately looks like it is often the case.

This is a political discussion board. Not surprisingly, the people who post here talk about their own opinions on the issues of the day. Those opinions include critiques of those in positions of power. The "smartest minds" can always use a check on their seemingly inevitable hubris, where their own internal logic propels them to seemingly inescapable conclusions. Often it is only outsiders who can provide perspectives that counter that internal logic.

Have you ever heard of a book by David Halberstam called "The Best And The Brightest"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_and_the_Brightest

Excerpts from the link:

---
The Best and the Brightest (1972) is an account by journalist David Halberstam of the origins of the Vietnam War published by Random House. The focus of the book is on the foreign policy crafted by the academics and intellectuals who were in John F. Kennedy's administration, and the consequences of those policies in Vietnam.
...
Many influential factors are examined in the book: (I have shortened the list to just a few)

* The Democratic party was still haunted by claims that it had 'lost China' to Communists, and did not want to be said to have lost Vietnam also
* The McCarthy era had rid the government of experts in Vietnam and surrounding Far-East countries
* The Domino Theory rationales are mentioned as simplistic.
* After placing a few thousand Americans in harm's way, it became politically easier to send hundreds of thousands over with the promise that with enough numbers they could protect themselves, and that to abandon Vietnam now would mean the earlier investment in money and blood would be thrown away.
---

The book is a good antidote to the attitude that we don't know as much as our supposed intellectual superiors. These people are sometimes very smart indeed. But they exist in a bubble where policy questions are debated within internal constraints that the rest of us are not subject to. Sometimes they need to be taken by the shoulders and shaken (figuratively speaking, of course) until they are able to step out of the limited circle of ideas they listen to every day.

[Uben]

32. I merely pose the assumption of his intelligence.....

.....I don't give a flying fuck if anybody here agrees with me, I just know there is usually more to the picture than what we see.
I trust Obama to do what he thinks is best for the nation. I don't care who trusts him and who doesn't because that is a subjective matter.

Believe me, I realize as much as any this is a discussion board. Been here a while, and have absolutely no problem with anyone posting their opinion. I do it every day, and will continue to do so.

Remember "Chill the fuck out, I got this!"?

I'm chilled the fuck out!

[704wipes]

35. How do you negotiate with no? You Don't, You Can't

so why does HE think that he CAN? Must be that yes we can thing. THAT's what it was about? Beats me.

[RandomKoolzip]

36. Stockholm Syndrome. Big time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. You elected a king

Alas the American system requires you to question your representatives...this is so damn fucking basic that it is amazing it needs rewriting every so-often.

They are not much more intelligent than you, as to best interests, if you make over 250k absolutely.

[Autumn]

14. Yeah I think he did too. n/t

[truedelphi]

33. I never wrote to them or emailed anything.

But I did phone. And I would be left on hold forever.

Then when I said how important the public option was, the person answering the comments line started to laugh and laugh. Like I was an idiot.

Last time, I have reached out to anyone in the WH.

[w8liftinglady]

11. I think about my dad,a fiscal Republican.he would be horrified.

A military lifer,he-like many of his peers- tended to vote Republican...Eisenhower,Goldwater.
He would have been utterly ashamed of the way our nation has treated the poor,the working class,the middle class,the sick,the vets.He is the one who urged me so strongly to speak out for Iraqi displaced citizens and iraq/afghanistan vets who had been fucked..kinda like HE was fucked after nam.
A family used to be able to make ends meet on a "working man's" salary...I know-5 gens of mine did it since we arrived here from Italy and Sweden.My dad was depressed before he died because his brother,a factory worker up north,had been laid off...a victim of outsourcing,as had my aunt's husband.He said "Greed is getting in the way of common sense"

The only GOOD thing I can say about speaking out is that it DOES get attention from the undecided.It has gotten veteran help and aide for poor families in my area who otherwise wouldn't have known about it.
Yes...many of them are Republican,right now.
That will change.I just hope it isn't too late.


keep speaking out.It's all we have.

[DainBramaged]

28. Hello my friend

Even speaking out seems to be a waste, unless you have a fucking teabag taped to your face.


:hug:

[dana_b]

29. your dad and the Republicans of that time are

completely different than those who are in D.C. now. Your dad had sense and a heart. For him, my ancestors and our kids, we have to keep speaking out. I am in total agreement with you.

[Autumn]

12. computer hiccup sorry

[NorthCarolina]

13. This is the final push on class warfare. You ARE being heard, you're just being ignored. nt

[SidDithers]

15. How's that General Motors bailout working for you?...nt

Sid

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftstreet]

20. Not as good as the Wall Street bailout. No CEOs are making $15 an hr

yep

[PassingFair]

21. I think they busted them down to $14.00/hour.

Livin' the high life here in Michigan!

[leftstreet]

22. Unbelievable

And WalMart's CEO makes $16,826.92 an hour!

Walmart CEO Pay: More in an Hour Than Workers Get All Year?

Walmart Executive-Worker Pay Gap Strikes Chord in Chicago and BeyondJuly 2, 2010

By Ed Smith's math, the CEO of Walmart earns more in an hour than his employees will earn in a year.

Smith, an alderman in Chicago, presented posters at a city council meeting showing that Walmart CEO Michael Duke's $35 million salary, when converted to an hourly wage, worked out to $16,826.92. By comparison, at a Walmart store planned for the Windy City's Pullman neighborhood, new employees to be paid $8.75 an hour would gross $13,650 a year.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/walmart-ceo-pay-hour-workers-year/story?id=11067470

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

24. You're catching on.

But the best response is to organize and work in your community for a better country. Don't leave it to the politicians.

[DainBramaged]

25. Did that, got 20 years of Reaganomics, then 8 years of Booshe

I'm done.

[rko_24550]

42. ...

self-delete

[progressoid]

30. Why bother?

Wish I could disagree. I hit that sisyphus about a year ago. It's tiring struggling for progress only to find our own party fighting against us.

[DainBramaged]

31. What kills me are the members here who expect us to be like the pukes and just take it

because THEY know what's best for them.


Bullshit.

[Individualist]

39. Our party was taken over by DLC.

The people have no voice. :(

[Kaleva]

34. DU isn't the base.

Polls continue to show that President Obama has the support of the vast majority of liberal Democrats. Something like over 80%.

[Bluebear]

43. Can you cite your "polls" please

[Kaleva]

46. Prosense posts them often

"According to Gallup's latest weekly tracking poll, 81 percent of self-identified Democrats give Obama a positive job approval rating. Among liberal Democrats, who are supposedly the most likely to rebel, the number rises to 85 percent."

December 1, 2010 10:39 AM

http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/strategist/2010/12/why_obama_wont_face_a_primary.php

[meow mix]

44. then how did the one pretending to be "most progressive" win?

we must be somewhat simliar to his base.

[Gregorian]

37. "The Base" is the corporations.

Lobbyists can walk right into the White House, and make their demands. Just you and I try that and see what happens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Movement Politics

Perhaps now this generation will wake up to that fact.

[old mark]

45. They don't even like us much - except at election time. nt