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Jonathan Alter, billionaire Gates diss Ravitch, teachers, liberals. Unfair advantage.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:22 PM
Original message
Jonathan Alter, billionaire Gates diss Ravitch, teachers, liberals. Unfair advantage.
They have the power of the media, the big money. Ravitch has a blog and her book, unfair advantage. Teachers have limited access to get their ideas across.

Jonathan Alter recently interviewed Bill Gates in a piece of puffery, and it gave Gates an opportunity to paint Diane Ravitch as the enemy. He's a billionaire who's being allowed way too much access to public education "reform". She's the former assistant superintendent under Bush I...who has seen those so-called reforms as inadequate and harmful to public education.

Here's what Gates and Alter had to say.

A Case of Senioritis

He's against tenure, seniority based pay, and pay for advanced degrees. He considers class size unimportant.

Seniority is the two-headed monster of education—it’s expensive and harmful. Like master’s degrees for teachers and smaller class sizes, seniority pay, Gates says, has “little correlation to student achievement.” After exhaustive study, the Gates Foundation and other experts have learned that the only in-school factor that fully correlates is quality teaching, which seniority hardly guarantees. It’s a moral issue. Who can defend a system where top teachers are laid off in a budget crunch for no other reason than that they’re young?


When asked about Diane Ravitch who has been defending public education against the education "reformers", he had this to say.

When I asked Gates about Ravitch, you could see the Micro-hard hombre who once steamrolled software competitors: “Does she like the status quo? Is she sticking up for decline? Does she really like 400-page (union) contracts? Does she think all those ‘dropout factories’ are lonely? If there’s some other magic way to reduce the dropout rate, we’re all ears.” Gates understands that charters aren’t a silver bullet, and that many don’t perform. But he doesn’t have patience for critics who spend their days tearing down KIPP schools and other models that produce results.


And Alter goes on to end his article to defend the wealthy who are taking on this reform and to get a dig in at teachers and liberals.

There’s a backlash against the rich taking on school reform as a cause. Some liberals figure they must have an angle and are scapegoating teachers. But most of the wealthy people underwriting this long-delayed social movement for better performance are on the right track. Like the rest of us, they know that if we don’t fix education, we can kiss our future goodbye.


Another non-educator speaking on a topic he knows nothing about.

Diane Ravitch in the Bridging Differences blog noticed that Bill Gates and Arne Duncan were reading from the same script, and she wondered who was writing it.

The struggle for control of American education continues to evolve at a dizzying pace. I read that Bill Gates advised the Council of Chief State School Officers to eliminate seniority and tenure and recommended that schools stop spending to reduce class size and stop giving teachers extra money for master's degrees. He wants teachers to get paid based on "performance" (i.e., their test scores). I guess we are now seeing a full-court effort to impose the corporate model of school reform, and Gates is the leading spokesman.

No, wait, I take that back, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said something very similar in a speech a day or two earlier, where he seemed almost happy to say that the days of wine and roses are over and schools must learn to do more with less. They seem to be sharing scripts. I don't know who is the leading spokesman.


Yesterday in the Washington Post's Answer Sheet blog, Ravitch responded to Gates' words about her.

Ravitch answers Gates

In the Newsweek piece, Gates poses some questions aimed at Ravitch. I asked her to answer them. Below are the questions Gates asked, in bold, and the answers, in italics, that Ravitch provided in an email.

Gates: “Does she like the status quo?"
Ravitch: "No, I certainly don't like the status quo. I don't like the attacks on teachers, I don't like the attacks on the educators who work in our schools day in and day out, I don't like the phony solutions that are now put forward that won't improve our schools at all."

Gates: "Is she sticking up for decline?"
Ravitch: "Of course not! If we follow Bill Gates' demand to judge teachers by test scores, we will see stagnation, and he will blame it on teachers. We will see stagnation because a relentless focus on test scores in reading and math will inevitably narrow the curriculum only to what is tested. This is not good education.


Those two questions by Gates are not even smart questions. They are nothing but words chosen by some propaganda-prone think tank.

The last one is just ignorant.

Gates: "Does she think all those ‘dropout factories’ are lonely?"
Ravitch: "This may come as a surprise to Bill Gates, but the schools he refers to as "dropout factories" enroll large numbers of high-need students. Many of them don't speak or read English; many of them enter high school three and four grade levels behind. He assumes the schools created the problems the students have; but in many cases, the schools he calls "dropout factories" are filled with heroic teachers and administrators trying their best to help kids who have massive learning problems.


And yes, Arne Duncan is spouting the same kind of nonsense. Here is a little about what Arne said in his New Normal speech.

Arne still following Gates' school agenda

The New Normal: Doing More with Less -- Secretary Arne Duncan's Remarks at the American Enterprise Institute

"So, what do I mean when I talk about transformational productivity reforms that can also boost student outcomes? Our K-12 system largely still adheres to the century-old, industrial-age factory model of education. A century ago, maybe it made sense to adopt seat-time requirements for graduation and pay teachers based on their educational credentials and seniority. Educators were right to fear the large class sizes that prevailed in many schools....Today, our schools must prepare all students for college and careers--and do far more to personalize instruction and employ the smart use of technology. Teachers cannot be interchangeable widgets. Yet the legacy of the factory model of schooling is that tens of billions of dollars are tied up in unproductive use of time and technology, in underused school buildings, in antiquated compensation systems, and in inefficient school finance systems."


What follows is simply propaganda meant to prepare us for the privatization of schools...the New Normal.

Rethinking policies around seat-time requirements, class size, compensating teachers based on their educational credentials, the use of technology in the classroom, inequitable school financing, the over placement of students in special education—almost all of these potentially transformative productivity gains are primarily state and local issues that have to be grappled with.


Did you notice his reference to the "over placement of students in special education"? Another way to save money...to go into denial about special needs students.

Doing more with less will likely require reshaping teacher compensation to do more to develop, support, and reward excellence and effectiveness, and less to pay people based on paper credentials.

Districts currently pay about $8 billion each year to teachers because they have masters' degrees, even though there is little evidence teachers with masters degrees improve student achievement more than other teachers--with the possible exception of teachers who earn masters in math and science.


Bill Gates was simply insulting by his choice of words against Diane Ravitch. They showed his ignorance about his new undertaking...education.

Unfortunately for us, no one in power seems too concerned about this billionaire power play.




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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. recommend.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's what I think we need
We'll build schools that just have like six y'know rooms. Like one for each grade. So you'll have all the kinnygartners in one room with one teacher, cuz its like cheeper that way.

An then you'll have all the first graders in another room with won teecher cuz that'll bee even moore like cheeper.

An the teechers won't hafta go to collige or nuthin' cuz collige don't like make you smarter or nuthin. Its better if you don't go to collige cuz then you'll know how its like in the real world with jobs and stuff.

An we wont pay the teechers only minimum wages and theyll be at-will highers cuz then we kin fire 'em whenever we wants to.

I think that'll work jess fine don't you?


:sarcasm: just in case, but it sure seems as if this is the logical extension of where we're headed, don't -- er, doesn't it?



Tansy Gold
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why do people who know nothing about education think they get to dictate what teachers do?
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Reader Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Because our government encourages them to do so.
Obviously, if they're billionaires, their opinions must be more important than the schmucks who don't do anything but teach all day long.
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. I used to think that Gates was the anti-Christ when windoze came out
It is now confirmed. He's a fucking devil and it doesn't matter how sincere he is. He produced crap with Microsoft and he's trying to do it again with education.

Come soon to a classroom soon - the blue screen of educations death.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&(invisible)R.
I'm still waiting for any of these assholes to suggest that all our schools should be modeled after the schools they attended.
:kick: & R

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Gates will do for education what he did to computing.
There are NO Microsoft innovations in computing. They stole everything fair and square.


--imm
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. +100
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. Gates attended private school at least from the age of 13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#Early_life

At 13 he enrolled in the Lakeside School, an exclusive preparatory school....Gates graduated from Lakeside School in 1973.

As a matter of fact, so did Obama. I ask you, who knows more about public education than the people who were able to bypass it? :sarcasm:
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asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Teachers are among the most powerful tools
this country has. Without them where would we be? I can remember when I graduated high school and started college most all my friends were going into teachers ed. Back then (1950) that and nursing were two of the careers that had high honorable ratings.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. You are so right.
Career teachers have always been good for this country. No one will enter now hoping for a career.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm surprised--I thought Alter was one of the good ones.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. I never really forgave him for this remark.
I know it's a long time to hold a grudge, but it was an awful thing to say.

"Though the press corps initially exhibited genuine interest and amazement at the cyber-support for Dean's campaign, the novelty quickly wore off, and media began to dwell on the reservations of the Democratic Party establishment about the long-term viability of an insurgent candidacy. "The greatest fear among certain Democrats is that if Dean does win the nomination, his liberal supporters will put their Birkenstocks on the gas pedal and drive the party right over the cliff," explained Newsweek's Jonathan Alter (8/11/03)."

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1176
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Orlandodem Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. The scapegoating of teachers by Obama/Duncan is why I won't vote for Obama in 2012.
Bye bye White House, Democratic Party. When you've lost the teachers, you've lost a significant constituency. We helped elect Obama. He has stabbed us in the back and is twisting the knife. While a Republican will be no better, at least I won't feel betrayed because I knew they hate teachers to start with. Hell, maybe a Republican would abolish the Dept. of Ed and end RTTT.
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adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. It's a sad day when your scenario is the best
possible outcome for our current mess. Pathetic. Who'd ever have thought it was possible that Dems would lose their way so badly?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R
Excellent links
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ravitch is a hero. Duncan is an ass.
Why does our president spend so much time with asses and so little with heroes?

Gates and Alter spout stupid line after stupid line and our administration laps it up like cream instead of crap. We have been failed. Whether by design or ignorance, this failure won't matter to the children to come.
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erodriguez Donating Member (532 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Truth!
K &R
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Therein,
is my biggest concern. Many of the students with whom I am blessed to work are quite aware of our nation's dire economic straits, and the divisive, hateful rhetoric framing our discourse du jour. They are often astonished when I ask for their input, or when I ask them how they feel about these macro-level issues. "No one (meaning 'no adult') ever wants my opinion," most of them say. Yet, when these young adults are encouraged to speak their minds, amazing things happen.

And, here is Bill Gates (need I even MENTION Arne?!?) telling everyone what should and shouldn't be done to improve public education...

Has Gates EVER engaged a roomful of students? Has he EVER asked young people what THEY think, or what THEY want?!

hmph...

I challenge Mr. Gates to face a roomful of students, and to spout the garbage rhetoric he's been spewing all over the place. Let's imagine him pontificating to our bright young people about the merits of standardized testing.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Cling to your delusions as long as you can, Mr. Gates.
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dhill926 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-10 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. BIG......K & R.......
these assholes have NO idea what they're talking about......
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. k&r as always
thank you for continuing to bring this issue to our attention.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
21. Can we throw Gates into a classroom to teach alone?
Middle school comes to mind, around either Halloween or Easter, the high holy days of sugar buzzes. Let me select the students, I promise I'll give him a fair, realistic mixture of students. See if he doesn't change his mind, or runs screaming. My bet, he runs screaming before the first day is out.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. ...
...Sounds fair to me. :7
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thanks_imjustlurking Donating Member (462 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. Oooooooooh!
:evilgrin:
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
22. K & R. What's It Gonna Take?
Obama is not stupid, he must know this is NOT improving education. He can't seriously believe this is a good thing. He must also know that teachers will not vote for him in 2012. Right wing teachers maybe, but not many Democratic teachers. Is he SO confident that millions of votes can be cast aside, and he'll still win in 2012? Well fine, take this bull-in-a-china-shop approach then Mr. President. See where it gets you in the next election.

P.S. Afterthought here. . . What has been done about DIEbold and the like deciding elections for us? Or are you not too worried about that?
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MedicalAdmin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. Understand this. Obama doesn't give a shit about us.
He's joined the management class. And now he coasts for 2 more years, participates in the election dog and pony theater, and then him and his family are given the brass ring.

He's got his.
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rrtzmd Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
23. Bill's right...
...the cold hearted fact is seniority and tenure allow teachers to get lazy...they allow retention of mediocre teachers, retention of impaired teachers, retention of teachers who no longer care about teaching...and masters degrees don't automatically mean a teacher's performance will improve...and I don't believe that when Bill talks about 'performance" that he is talking solely about standardized tests...however, although not always equitable or fair, standardized tests do provide a means of judging what students know...and while teachers often harp about teaching just to "pass the test," at least passing the test guarantees that student knows certain rudiments of math and language skills...

...I went to my daughters' school to watch her classes one day...I noticed the math teacher just used a workbook that be bought on Amazon and just walked around and helped students who requested such...I spoke to the language arts teacher and inquired what rubrics she used in evaluating students...her eyes glazed over and she begged the question, only mumbling something about using a variety of assessments...that day decided my future course and I became a homeschooler...I feel for teachers...even with just two kids, attending to what each is doing and deciding the proper course of action is difficult and time consuming...I can't imagine what it would be like with a room of 25-30 kids...indeed, my homeschool experience challenges the "herd" approach to education -- i.e. that everyone must follow a prescribed course and attain certain levels in a certain period of time...while homeschooling has worked well for me, I don't see how a similar approach could be managed on a large scale...it's a tough situation...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Huge broad brush smear of a group.
Shame on you.
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chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Sad,
really, madfloridian, how quickly some people jump on the 'bash teachers' bandwagon.

Furthermore, have you noticed the increase in 'new members' posting screeds that seem more suited for Freeperville, or any of the other websites where conservatives regularly practice their cognitive dissonance avoidance behavior?

To those of us who are genuinely concerned about rescuing and improving our system of public education, teacher bashing is just another way to obfuscate the real challenges we face in providing our young people with opportunities to develop their critical thinking skills and prepare to compete in a disintegrating global economy.

I think the most important first step is to tell our children the TRUTH, and to facilitate their participation in developing an approach to public education suited for today's socio-political environment.

Teacher bashing is a hobgoblin of a narrow mind...
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. I alerted
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KansasVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. And saying you did is another violation!
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. I'm well aware of that
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Teachers on tenure can be fired for cause. What you said is NOT true.
"..the cold hearted fact is seniority and tenure allow teachers to get lazy...they allow retention of mediocre teachers, retention of impaired teachers, retention of teachers who no longer care about teaching...and masters degrees don't automatically mean a teacher's performance will improve."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Sorry your very first post here was a smear of teachers.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. "her eyes glazed over"
"I went to my daughters' school to watch her classes one day...I noticed the math teacher just used a workbook that be bought on Amazon and just walked around and helped students who requested such...I spoke to the language arts teacher and inquired what rubrics she used in evaluating students...her eyes glazed over and she begged the question, only mumbling something about using a variety of assessments...that day decided my future course and I became a homeschooler"

Workbooks can be a valuable resource when used by the teacher as they "walked around and helped students". There is nothing wrong with that.

The image of the teacher with "glazed eyes" makes this post sound like a deliberate smear on a whole profession.

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sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. The most important strategies
for improving education should be better pedagogy and a reduction in poverty rates. The former is accomplished through designing curricula that test critical thinking and problem solving skills, not curricula designed to facilitate multiple choice test regimes. The latter precedes improvements in learning. It is not and will never be a consequence of it on a mass scale. The quality of teachers improves with professional grade salaries, not with merit pay bonus baiting to supplement semi-skilled wage scales.

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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
33. Welcome to DU, but Bill is WRONG...
...on so many levels. Your post demonstrates lack of knowledge about how some public schools are operated. Just one phrase:

"I went to my daughters' school to watch her classes one day...I noticed the math teacher just used a workbook that be bought on Amazon and just walked around and helped students who requested such..."


1. "one day" is not enough time to make such a serious judgement. Try 24 years of days. It might change your mind.

2. "used a workbook that he bought on Amazon" How do you know this? Guessing?

3. Lastly...in my district, before I left, ALL CONTROL for what materials I used, what I did minute by minute, and what was taught was not my decision. Teachers were 'straight-jacketed' on curriculum, methods, standards, schedules and materials...and then blamed when test scores didn't get better. That is not being 'lazy.'


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. All those "glazed eyes" among teachers. Talk about an insult?
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
55. Yep...
... :hi:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. lol! Tell us where you work so we can drop by
and totally assess your performance by glancing casually at you for 20 minutes. Thanks in advance.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Did you catch the "glazed eyes" bit? Unbelievable.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. She was probably wondering who the hell he was.
I teach high school so I don't know, do parents get to just drop randomly into classrooms to watch? If a parent shows up at my door, I'm supposed to check to see if they have a guest pass, and if they don't, they have to go the office. If someone interrupted what I was doing to just watch at the door, I would find that very intrusive.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. I'll check for glazed eyes
You check for use of material you consider inappropriate.
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Well if he's using Windows, he's definitely going to be on My List.
If he's lucky he'll just be sneaking in a game of Tetris and hoping the boss doesn't come by.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. "a workbook that be bought on Amazon"
Did it enter your mind to ask WHY he bought a workbook on Amazon instead of using an updated and thorough curriculum along with the support of the latest technology to teach his Math lessons? Gee, do you suppose it's because that workbook he bought on Amazon (with his own money) is the best and most affordable resource at this teacher's disposal?

Did you bother to ask the Language Arts teacher what assessments are mandated by the school district and the state and how often she is required to assess? And do the required assessments even match the rubric she is mandated to follow?

No you decided to homeschool. You could have gone to the school administration and had these discussions. You could have offered to help those lazy teachers. Now you criticize them instead.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Applause! Great comments. Enough teacher bashing at DU, no more.
Great post.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. It's infesting this site
And I am over it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. It makes me feel odd to have to defend teachers from attacks here.
And to see others get deleted for trying to do so.

It's like the whole planned ideas I posted never mattered because of one insulting post
....that is how I feel.

I feel that like seniors, educators are scorned also.

And if that is my perception, then that is my reality.

If so obvious an insult can stand, and not break any rules here....why have rules at all.


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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-10 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Totally agreed.
Another thread in the Education forum had a few very mild posts by teachers heavily moderated today. I'm getting really sick of this place. Gross insults to teachers can stand, bet we stand up for ourselves and get deleted.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-03-10 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Obama has set the tone for teachers to be treated this way.
That is sad.

It's heartbreaking to see an insulting post that doesn't even tell the truth remain.
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blackspade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. Gates and Duncan are a F'n disgrace.
They engage in classic double speak; accusing the system from 'a century' ago :sarcasm: of being a factory while promoting factory education.
These assholes and those like them have been sucking the life out of the education system since Reagan.
The very things that make education successful; smaller class sizes, well educated and paid teachers, adequately funded schools, and 'seat time' are the things that they want to replace!
What Alter and others do not report is that the rich are interested in education for the money.
That $8b that Arne talks about? Well he and gates would be much happier if it was in their and their rich buddies pockets.
Yet another way to pull money out of the public coffer and into their hands.

Our government has been taken over by grifters!
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soleiri Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
35. Micro-hard hombre?
Alter actually called Gates "the Micro-hard hombre?'

The Micro-hard hombre.

Did Gates leave a $100 on the nightstand before he left?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. Been trying to figure that one out.
What is that?
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
49. let the rich fucks run education reform when K-12 teachers are allowed to dictate Wall Street reform
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
51. One of the most frustrating aspects of this farce is watching Gates
not get taken down a notch. I would like to see him take on Ravitch one on one. No dumbass MSM controling
the exchange either.
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