A question for you all.......

[Uben]

What's more important, the expiration of the tax cut for the 2%, or retaining the senate and WH in 2012?

You don't have to elaborate if you don't want to, just choose one, but I'm open to discussion as well.

[PBS Poll-435]

1. I would like to retake the House, keep the Senate, and keep the White House in '12

I don't really care what it takes.

[Ken Burch]

7. If the tax cuts are made permanent, it won't MATTER who wins in 2012

We'd be forced to be just as right-wing as the GOP. That's what austerity means...the end of political differences and the end of democracy.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Opinions are like

Belly buttons.


Losing the WH and Senate are not going to get us any closer to being back 'on track'.

[Ken Burch]

24. If the tax cuts are eternal, it will never matter again who wins an election.

There's no difference between Democratic permanent austerity and Republican permanent austerity.

Democrats would have to go back to being the party of Grover Cleveland again.

You can't think it could still be worth this party existing if it came to that.

All conservatism is the same.

[EFerrari]

15. I don't think people really understand what maintaining those tax cuts

means to an economy where millions of people are struggling to stay indoors, fed and warm. Maybe tens of millions.

[BzaDem]

21. Do you support maintaining the middle class tax cuts? n/t

[Ken Burch]

37. That can't be a good thing if the rich still keep theirs.

n/t.

[awoke_in_2003]

39. I make $62k a year...

Bush's tax cuts netted me a whopping $3.50 a paycheck or so more. Big whoop-de-doo. If the taxes for the upper class go back to at least where they were, I will gladly go back to where mine were before.

[polichick]

2. What's the connection? nt

[KingOfLostSouls]

3. going after the top tax cut is a win

and would go a long way to helping keep the senate and WH in 2012.

capitulation is a loser.

[Vincardog]

4. What makes you think it is an either / or position?

[Uben]

26. Because if you let the middle class cut expire......

....you have just let the air out of an already tenuous recovery. Without renewed stimulus, this economy will be just where republicans want it in 2012. We know how they'll vote on any stimulus. We're not gonna get our tax cut unless they get theirs. That's been made pretty clear. So, do you want to gamble on the economy and let all tax cuts expire taking $160 billion out the economy before 2012, or extend the tax cuts for the rich two years and give ourselves a chance to retain the WH? If they win, they will just renew the tax cuts another ten yrs anyway.

That's how I see it as an either/or.

[Ken Burch]

36. What remains of the social safety net will be lost forever.

No cuts are ever restored.

[Vincardog]

43. You agree to MORE tax cuts for the rich, and the GOP CONTINUES to argue that we can do NOTHING to

help the working people of this country because of the DEFICIT THEY CREATED.
Did you go to the Barack Obama school of compromise?

[Forkboy]

5. Question for you....why is this presented as an either/or?

Couldn't a strong President let the tax cuts expire AND win in 2012?

[Uben]

31. Gosh, I sure hope so......

.....but it's gonna be a lot easier if the economy isn't in the gutter. I don't need the cuts, but I don't want a republican president worse. I'm willing to sacrifice whatever to not let that happen.

[Ken Burch]

6. You need to clarify the question a bit more...

Are you implying that we HAVE to let the tax cuts for the rich be carved in stone in order to hold what the party has(and also possibly retake the House)in 2012, or that we won't have a chance to win if we DO let the tax cuts for the rich survive.

Personally, my feeling is, if the tax cuts are made permanent, it won't be possible for the Democratic party to do anything distinguishable from the Republicans anymore.

[Uben]

32. Permanent? Hell no! Two years.

Then if they win in 2012, they can try to extend them again. If not, they expire.

[Ken Burch]

35. It would never just be two years and you know it.

And our Dem pols would have to be too gutless to change it then.

Besides, it's not like the people are demanding that we let the rich keep their tax cuts.

[WilliamPitt]

8. There is an argument to be made

...that lacking victory on the first, there isn't much hope for the second.

So.

[The Straight Story]

9. We could keep the powder dry some for elections in 2014, 16, 18, .....

;)

[Ken Burch]

11. Wouldn't the powder have blown away in the wind by then?

...just sayin'.

[EFerrari]

10. Clearly, the expiration of the tax cut.

Who will turn out in 2012 if our voters are hurting more then?

[geckosfeet]

13. I want both. And more.

[BzaDem]

23. .

[obxhead]

14. I don't see how one is dependent on the other. nt

[ZombieHorde]

16. Tax cuts. Fuck keeping the powder dry. nt

[Ken Burch]

27. Is that powder even still in the bag?

n/t.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

17. At this point I'm in favor of letting the tax cuts expire for all.

Wouldn't hurt the poor that much. The message could be, WE ALL NEED TO PULL TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY.

[doc03]

18. Retaining the Senate and Whitehouse in 2012 n/t

[doc03]

19. delete

[doc03]

20. delete

[BzaDem]

22. Um, there are plenty of people here who's GOAL it is to lose the WH independent of everything else.

[Ken Burch]

25. You'd have to admit that, with those tax cuts carved in eternal stone

that it could never again matter who held the White House.

All conservative austerity is exactly the same.

Politics would be over. Democracy would be over.

It can't matters who administers a permanent sameness.

[BzaDem]

33. Yeah, because in politics, there is only one issue. Not muliple issues.

:sacrasm:

Even if we accept your premise as valid (that ANYTHING they do will carve ANYTHING into "eternal stone"), which it isn't, your conclusion is ludicrous.

[Ken Burch]

34. There's nothing else on which meaningful change can be possible

If the tax cuts issues are surrendered on.

It would obviously mean we couldn't be progressive on choice or LGBT rights or anything else either.

You know that.

You know that nothing other than social spending, workers' rights and economic justice REALLY matters.

[Ken Burch]

42. It's delusional to think that the tax cuts for the rich will ever end if they don't end NOW.

If they survive this year, they survive forever. And you know it.

And if they do survive, nothing progressive can happen, because nothing progressive can happen without the ability to spend. Certainly just rearranging the existing funds can't do anything. And it's pretty damn clear that the war budget will never be cut. So what the hell does that leave?

Everything else is a side issue.

[Curmudgeoness]

41. If we give in to everything that the Repugs want, what is the difference?

I want to keep Democrats in the WH forever, but I am not seeing where it matters if they are getting what they want and we are letting them.

[spanone]

28. apples/oranges...choose one

[guruoo]

29. Eliminate the tax cut for the 2%, use the $ to extend unemployment benefits...

[Bluenorthwest]

30. How does one thing lead to or relat to the other?

How is it an either or? Daft BS.

[RainDog]

38. expiration of tax cuts

...which will also be tremendously popular among all but the 2%

[Curmudgeoness]

40. We could have both. This is not an either/or situation...

What we need to do is educate the 98% who would not be affected by the expiration about what it will and will not do. I am beginning to worry about the stupidity of the masses. They buy into all the propaganda and we need to make just as much noise as the Repugs are making. Face it, there are more of us than there are of the 2%ers.