Everyone on DU understands that the so called 'rape' charges against Assange involve consensual sex

[Matariki]

and a broken or absent condom?

Right? Everyone here knows that?

Which makes the Interpol warrant for him even more peculiar.

[EFerrari]

1. Interpol is just a clearinghouse, afaik.

But it sounds really, really bad if a warrant from them is chanted all over Corporate McPravda endlessly.

[Matariki]

2. Precisely. And the word 'rape'.

[EFerrari]

4. Yep. It's not a rape charge but a misconduct allegation

that was already thrown out once.

IOW, bullshit so PJ Crowley at State can reference it to the media and so the media can make him sound like a sex offender.

[Lucinda]

3. I've yet to see anything from the women involved...but I have heard what you mentioned. n/t

[laughingliberal]

5. I believe most know that and most also know that intelligence agencies have the largest

call girl networks in the world. It's long been SOP to use women to discredit enemies as well as compromising agents for purposes of blackmail.

[snagglepuss]

7. I read today they were volunteers at Wikileaks. I don't know if that is

credible information as I haven't seen that elsewhere.

[laughingliberal]

12. I'll look around. The original stories about the case out of Sweden did not indicate that as far...

as I can remember. That said, it would not be beyond the capacity of the alphabet soup agencies to install their 'volunteers' in most any organization.

[Mimosa]

15. 'Volunteers'can be spies.

That's a classic.

[EFerrari]

16. No, neither of them were volunteers at Wikileaks.

One was a woman, with a background in PR, that arranged some speaking dates dates for Assange in Sweden and one was a photographer.

[sudopod]

32. It's Standard Operating Procdedure for Scientologists to put up fliers

in the neighborhoods of their enemies that proclaim that they are child molesters.

Just sayin.

[Matariki]

42. Call Girl network, eh?

That along with drug trade and gun running, they might just be one of the world's biggest and most powerful organized crime networks.

[asdjrocky]

6. I've said it like a dozen times.

So far we know he likes to have sex, and sometimes doesn't call back. Based on this the cops should be at my front door now, along with almost every other man in the world.

If we were doing this to a woman it would be called sexist.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. You know those funny spoof movies that are take-offs of slasher movies?

Looking at what's going, it's like we're in the midst of some friggin horror spoof. Everything is so comical it should be funny.

But it's just not. Cause lives are being destroyed every second. :(

Our government is a farce; our media is like an SNL skit.

I honestly can't even find any information that I believe is 100% truth anywhere any more.

It's all white noise and it's getting louder.

Let's all go crazy together, shall we?

:eyes:

[asdjrocky]

11. Here's what I'm thinking-

All the news is, is a bunch of rich people sitting around talking about richer people. This thought has been running around and around in my head. Not one of these people has known hard times, or if they have they have forgotten.

All I can say is, thank gawd for natural remedies or I'd be out of my mind.

[pscot]

20. +1

[glitch]

10. It's worse than sexist.

It's psyops with very damaging and potentially deadly results. Not to mention all the government bodies that are wasting time and money on this. But it's not their money so what the hell. That Sweden would allow itself to be manipulated like this is very enlightening.

What they apparently don't get is they are revealing more about themselves and how they operate than the wikileaks document dump did.

[sabrina 1]

8. Since both women stated early on there was no 'rape', it's amusing

to watch the usual smear campaign tactics in action.

Not to mention the huge question as to whether or not he was set up by the woman who is very well known in Sweden for her political views AND her views on how to 'punish' a man who has hurt you.

One of those ways to accuse him of things he may or may not have done.

But yes, I think most intelligent people are laughing at the 'rape' charges, especially since they were pretty much expected. He has angered a lot of powerful people, who promised to smear him if he didn't stop.

All this energy directed at Wikileaks. Now when is our DOJ going to start looking into whether or not the State Dept. has for years been violating the law by using their positions to conduct espionage, definitely illegal.

Holder doesn't seem interested in pursuing the law-breaking, the lies that got us into a devastating war, the war crimes etc. But we should be grateful that he is doing something. He is 'looking into possible crimes' committed by Julian Assange.

Think about that. Holder knows that the Bush administration caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings based on lies. He KNOWS they broke our laws relating to torture, he knows how many millions of victims they are responsible for.

Who did Assange torture or kill? But Holder is after assange, NOT the genocidal maniacs who dropped white phospherous on a civilian population killing beautiful babies, their mothers and fathers.

Something is very wrong in this country. Holder, like his boss in the WH, is protecting the war criminals. This is NOT what we supported when we put Democrats in power.

[laughingliberal]

14. +1000 nt

[Ian David]

13. His condom wikileaked? n/t

[Matariki]

30. lol

that's funny ;-)

[spanone]

17. the powers that be want him at all costs...

[spanone]

18. the powers that be want him at all costs...

[spanone]

19. the powers that be want him at all costs...

[struggle4progress]

21. Swedish Supreme Court upholds order to detain Assange

05:55 AM Dec 03, 2010
STOCKHOLM - Sweden's Supreme Court yesterday upheld a court order to detain WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange for questioning over allegations of rape and sexual molestation ... He has not been formally charged ... http://www.todayonline.com/World/EDC101203-0000223/Swedish-Supreme-Court-upholds-order-to-detain-Assange

[cbdo2007]

22. Many rape charges involve what started out as consensual sex, but this could

definitely be the first case in the history of DU to automatically side with the suspected rapist rather than the victims.

[MNBrewer]

23. the "victims" aren't claiming "rape"

[laughingliberal]

24. DU didn't exist back then but I'd bet few of us believed Paula Jones or the AR trooper gate shit. nt

[EFerrari]

25. What evidence do you have that anyone "automatically" sided with Julian?

Same evidence you had that he is a rapist and needs to be off the street before he strikes again?

[fascisthunter]

26. ignorant

we happen to know there is a motive to shut him down.... and we happen to know what you obviously ignore. But, seeing your other posts, I know you want this guy to go down in flames... just admit it.

[Kaleko]

29. DU has a reputation for attracting people with high-functioning bullshit detectors.

Judging from your post, yours needs a tune up.

[cbdo2007]

58. According to a recent poll - about 1/3 of DU have Assange setting off our bullshit

detectors, for his releasing documents systematically, none with any real substance or smoking guns, as a way to just embarrass the United States and keeping the good stuff hidden away in his "Insurance File"

Really? Julian Assange is the new "hope Angel" for 2/3 of DU who are just mad because Obama still hasn't stopped DADT, and I"M THE ONE with a misfunctioning Bullshit detector?!?!?! Then, the usual argument FOR Wikileaks releasing these documents, is "well, Cheney and Bush got to go free for torture so Wikileaks can do anything they want", yet no current politician would have prosecuted Bush and Cheney if they had won the Presidency instead of Obama. And still you think it's MY bullshit detector that is faulty??!?!?! ha ha ha hahahahahahahahahahah ha ha ha ha ha

Scuz me, I've got log off and laugh some more....

[fascisthunter]

27. Unfortunately, too many liars will overlook this fact

on purpose

[AndrewP]

28. I'm suspicious that he is being set up to be discredited

so that is how I view the charges unless something credible comes out. But I'm not automatically jumping to his defense and calling for him to be Time Magazine's Man of the Decade either.

It's just that this case looks like a set-up, from the outside anyway.

[Individualist]

31. The timing says it all.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

33. yes, and if the warrant for his arrest/questioning came next year then

those who support Assange would say the exact same thing, that the timing says it all(only then in regards to whatever he had most recently published).

I've said it once and I'll say it again, if Sweden is making stuff up as they go along and are breaking rules(which many here on DU claims) then Assange and his lawyer should no trouble returning for questioning since it would be easy for them to tear the charges down and get him declared innocent.

What we are seeing instead(atleast so far) is that he seems to do what he can to avoid returning including hiding away, now would you say that is the behavior of somebody who has nothing to hide?

[EFerrari]

34. Baloney. Ellsberg went underground, too, when the Feds were

after him until it was safe for him.

[Swede]

35. Let's wait for the trial before we brand him as guilty.

That's how it's done.

[Matariki]

36. What are you talking about?

Who here is branding him as guilty?

It is so completely and obviously a set up to both smear him and get him in custody. And god knows what might happen to him in custody.

This is why I posted this - there seem to be a number of folks at DU who aren't clear about this.

[Swede]

38. There has been no trial yet.

Let's hear the facts in a fair trial before we judge this.

[Matariki]

40. And hopefully there won't be a trial for this bullshit made up crap.

[Swede]

43. I haven't heard the evidence from the trial yet.

I'll wait til then.

[Richard Steele]

51. He will never face these so-called "charges" in any court of law.

Just sayin'.

[treestar]

37. If everyone on DU thinks a thing, the Swedish government

must certainly comply!

:rofl:

[Matariki]

39. Well, that would be awesome. Can we apply that to the US govt as well?

It seems that there are a few people posting who are very fuzzy on the facts. Thought I'd clarify.

[David Zephyr]

41. Half of the DU tried and convicted Kobe Bryant before the truth ever came out.

I know. Anyone can search the archives and see what Kobe was accused of here. It was shameful. Thank you for your OP.

[bluestate10]

45. It is called rose colored lenses. Try some when you want to look the other way.

I have seen Assange called a hero. Wonder what Kobe Bryant was called by some of the same Assange worshipers?

[TorchTheWitch]

44. no, actually we don't know

What we know is what little the media tells us which has it's own bias. Without knowing the details of the sex acts from all the parties involved we really don't KNOW shit. Frankly, so little has been said about the details of the encounters I don't see how anyone can make any claims of guilty or innocent on either side.

What I do know is that a sexual encounter that starts out as consensual doesn't mean it continues to be consensual to the end. If I tell someone that I'll have sex with them with conditions and those conditions are violated during the encounter without my consent that's a problem and it's particularly a problem if I tell them to stop and they don't. It also surprises and angers me how many guys believe that once I agree to having sex with them and they violate the conditions during the act that they not only had a right to continue the act anyway but that I don't have a right to complain about it.

It's entirely possible that during one or both of these encounters that Assange violated a pre-condition, was told to stop and didn't or was deceptive enough that he violated conditions that weren't detectable until after the fact. None of us know this because so far the media hasn't said anything about the details of the encounters. It makes no difference whether or not the guy is considered a hero because of Wikileaks or whether or not it's believed that the government has a mission to smear his reputation or if it's believed that he's a jerk or the women are jerks. All that matters are the detailed facts about the encounters which none of us have.

If the media isn't willing to give any information about what occurred during each of these encounters than they need to shut the hell up about it because guilt or innocence can't be determined with the non-information they ARE willing to give.

[bluestate10]

46. Assange can end this by going to Sweden and getting his day in court.

You had better bet that if I were accused of rape, I would be working to clear my name, not running and hiding. You right about sex, even if things get hot and heavy, if one partner has limits, those limits must be respected, without any hint of trickery to get around them.

[Matariki]

49. First - he's NOT accused of rape, as has been pointed out.

Second - given the players, and their history of torture and dirty tricks - WOULD YOU 'turn yourself in'???

[druidity33]

65. He's been there and done that.

They dropped the inquiry and let him leave the country. Since then they have reopened it (external pressure?) and issued a Red Card on him. He's offered to do depositions by teleconference, videolink, via representatives, etc. He is not accused of rape. There are no charges against him. He is wanted for questioning. It is an abuse of Interpol and makes a laughingstock of precedent.

:shrug:

[MNBrewer]

68. The accusation is what the Swedes call "sex by surprise"

It is having sex without a condom, and carries the penalty of $715.

for THIS Interpol issued a red alert?

<http://slatest.slate.com/id/2276689/?v=1#3>

If Assange sent the Swedish government a check for $1430 would they drop the issue?

[TorchTheWitch]

75. it appears "sex by surprise" is something different than sex without

a condom. Your own link quotes Assange's attorney as not knowing what "sex by surprise" is and it sure doesn't sound like sex without a condom. It sounds like what it implies.

I'd sure like to know what Sweden determines "sex by surprise" to be and apparently so does Assange's own attorney.

[Matariki]

50. The willingness to even throw doubt on it is exactly wants wanted.

That and, imo, getting him into custody - where I seriously doubt he'll be safe from 'the powers that be'.

[Matariki]

52. BTW - there is actually plenty of media information about this.

From Salon:

Swedish prosecutors today ramped up their pursuit of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange by authorizing Interpol to issue a so-called Red Notice, which asks foreign governments to arrest and extradite Assange to Sweden.

The prosecutors say he is wanted for questioning about accusations of sex crimes made against him by two women; he has not been charged with a crime. But the real peril here for Assange -- whose whereabouts are unknown -- is that if he ends up in the hands of Swedish authorities, the chances that he will be extradited to the United States rise significantly.


There's a lot more articles available. Just do a Google search.

[TorchTheWitch]

64. I said specific information about the sex acts

That is what is missing from the media articles. And without that detailed information of what happened during those acts nobody can judge whether or not he's innocent or guilty. ALL THAT MATTERS is what happened during the alleged consensual sex acts. If Sweden believes there is enough information under their laws to want him returned to Sweden for questioning, that's fine, because WE DON'T KNOW the facts of these sexual encounters and they aren't obligated to tell the general public. We can speculate till our heads fall off nefarious reasons for Sweden wanting him extradited but speculation isn't fact and doesn't determine whether or not he's guilty or innocent. I can certainly see why he wouldn't want to be extradited both for the reasons he claims AND because of the very real possibility that he MAY be guilty of some sort of sex crime.

People don't have to be charged with a crime in order to be extradited. Sweden wants to question him about the two incidents which may be entirely nefarious or entirely justified and they have a right to do that if they can show other countries that there is enough evidence under Sweden's laws to justify extraditing him.

The point being, as I said before, is there isn't any way for anyone to be able to fairly judge which it is because the media with all their various stories haven't given any details of the only facts that matter even when they've claimed to have seen police reports. If the media isn't willing to give information for anyone to be able to judge whether or not he may be guilty or may be innocent then they need to SHUT UP because all they end up doing is giving people the excuse to make judgments about guilt or innocence based on information that has NOTHING to do with what actually happened during these sexual encounters which is ALL THAT MATTERS.

[Matariki]

69. Again, that would be for lack of searching.

here: http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/12/sex-charges-and-arrest-warrant-against.html

and a gossipy article with details of the women's police statements here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange--women-involved-tell-different-story.html

[TNLib]

72. From what we do know he was never accused of rape

He just doesn't like to wear condoms apparently. And 2 women accused him of not wearing a condom. Apparently there is some abscure law in Sweden about it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

77. We know that the victims bragged about it afterward.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/

The women here are near to and over 30 and have international experience, some of it working in Swedish government embassies. There is no suggestion of drugs nor identity concealment. Far from it. Both women boasted of their celebrity connection to Assange after the events that they would now see him destroyed for.

That further evidence hasn’t been confected to make the charges less absurd does Sweden no credit because it has no choice in the matter. The phenomena of social networking through the internet and mobile phones constrains Swedish authorities from augmenting the evidence against Assange because it would look even less credible in the face of tweets by Anna Ardin and SMS texts by Sofia Wilén boasting of their respective conquests after the “crimes”.

In the case of Ardin it is clear that she has thrown a party in Assange’s honour at her flat after the “crime” and tweeted to her followers that she is with the “the world’s coolest smartest people, it’s amazing!”. Go on the internet and see for yourself. That Ardin has sought unsuccessfully to delete these exculpatory tweets from the public record should be a matter of grave concern. That she has published on the internet a guide on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends ever graver. The exact content of Wilén’s mobile phone texts is not yet known but their bragging and exculpatory character has been confirmed by Swedish prosecutors. Niether Wilén’s nor Ardin’s texts complain of rape.

But then neither Arden nor Wilén complained to the police but rather “sought advice”, a technique in Sweden enabling citizens to avoid just punishment for making false complaints. They sought advice together, having collaborated and irrevocably tainted each other’s evidence beforehand. Their SMS texts to each other show a plan to contact the Swedish newspaper Expressen beforehand in order to maximise the damage to Assange. They belong to the same political group and attended a public lecture given by Assange and organised by them. You can see Wilén on the YouTube video of the event even now.

[msanthrope]

80. This is an excellent post. n/t

[TexasObserver]

47. It's a case about nothing, completely contrived.

How they gained the cooperation of the "complainants" is probably a story we will never know.

That this has made him part of Interpol's Most Wanted list is merely a measure of how much our world is run by the people who use war as an economic tool.

[snagglepuss]

57. Exactly. FUrthermore this move by the Swedes of all people reveals more about

the PTB than the leaks themselves. It also makes the US look desperate and putting the thumbs to the Swedes.


I wonder what the Nobel Committee is thinking about all this. Just asking.

[TexasObserver]

60. This sounds like the way they took Spitzer down.

First, they engage in illegal surveillance until they find something useful. Then they create a crime to fit the facts. Then they act on that fabricated crime.

[snagglepuss]

62. Bang on. although they have less to nail on Assange. I wonder however if

extradition is the least of his worries. With so many powerful entities pissed off with him, assassination might be a graver danger.

[TNLib]

73. But even for a fabricated crme this is pretty lame and ridiculous

[TorchTheWitch]

74. except spitzer WAS doing something illegal

Paying for sex is illegal. I don't necessarily believe it should be illegal but it is. Spitzer did indeed commit a crime. What pisses me off about Spitzer is that while he was commiting this crime he was cracking down on other people committing the same crime.

[MNBrewer]

76. victimless crime

blah blah blah.... So fkkin what?

[TexasObserver]

79. That's not what they used. They used "money laundering."

Do you recall how it went down? A bank allegedly had concerns because he got $5000 in cash several times, and it looked "suspicious." That was contrived after they surveilled him and determined he was seeing a prostitute.

Remember that his crime was going after the big banks and Wall street.

[Poboy]

48. k&r

[Cleita]

53. It's just a witch hunt, like impeaching Clinton for a

blow job because they couldn't find anything else he had done wrong.

[Matariki]

54. An article in Salon yesterday points out the real danger for Assange - US extradition.

The US - a nation that hasn't prosecuted the folks that broke international laws against torturing people.

The prosecutors say he is wanted for questioning about accusations of sex crimes made against him by two women; he has not been charged with a crime. But the real peril here for Assange -- whose whereabouts are unknown -- is that if he ends up in the hands of Swedish authorities, the chances that he will be extradited to the United States rise significantly.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/?story=/politics/war_room/2010/12/01/wikileaks_assange_legal_dangers

[uppityperson]

55. I haven't read enough true facts to have an opinion but OMG!!111

[cascadiance]

56. This kind of crap is so typical. They did the same thing to Scott Ritter too...

And he was a frickin' Republican that didn't do what they wanted!

The Distractomedia hard at work as usual!

[Cleita]

59. Didn't they try to accuse him of child molestation?

It didn't stick.

[daleo]

61. Bill clinton was impeached for consensual sex

It's a standard right wing silencing technique.

[Lorien]

63. Geez, I wish that Interpol were as hellbent on bringing the rapists at Halliburtan and KBR

to justice-especially the ones who murdered a female member of the U.S. forces after gang raping her at gunpoint. Oh, and a few cops down here in Florida that work at the juvenile detentions centers. :grr:

[northernlights]

66. failure to perform coitus interruptus. Quick, call Interpol! nt

[struggle4progress]

67. Um ... Assange HASN'T been charged, so it makes no sense to speak of the "charges"

[TNLib]

70. It makes the Euros look stupid, absurd and ridiculous

And I can't believe france has banned the website.

[joeybee12]

71. I can't believe anyone would think these charges are anything less than bogus, trumped up lies

by the powers that be...fuckers. KNR

[SidDithers]

78. If only the Duke Lacrosse Team had had secret documents...nt

Sid