If the Democrats vote to give tax cuts to millionaires they will lose me

[slay]

and if that means I get banned from DU, so be it. I've got to draw a line in the sand somewhere - god knows I've given the Dems, and Obama, every chance in the world to prove they are on our side, but if they do this, if they actually give tax cuts to the rich and powerful who make over ONE MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR then they are clearly not on our side and my political efforts would be better spent backing those who actually care about the average Americans, the poor Americans, and not just the rich and powerful. Someone who will actually stand up and fight for us damnit!

[AndyTiedye]

1. That Is Not a Battle We Can Win

It's gonna be all or nothing, and "nothing" means everybody's taxes go up and we get the blame.
Which means the the Repiggies sweep the 2012 elections no matter what idiot they are running. :scared:

The deficits don't scare me as much as the idea of President Palin or President Huckabee does.

[asdjrocky]

7. There is no real battle.

There is no "we". There is only us and them, up and down, the on the in and the on the out. We're on the out.

[Sherman A1]

8. It may not be a battle that we can win

but then again it might just be.

I have had it up to my eyeballs with the Dems in Congress and I am not overly pleased with the WH.

Yes, they are better than the alternative, but I am beginning to really wonder just how so. At least I know the GOP has no use for me and will screw me at every opportunity.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

36. +1

[slay]

11. I can't keep voting for Dems out of my fear of Republicans either

I know some people call that foolish and naive but if all The Powers That Be have to do is give us the choice of a corporate Dem and a crazy Republican, and we accept that, that is ALL they will ever give us.

[AndyTiedye]

28. If the Current Batch of Repiggies Gets into Power, You Won't Have to Make Choices Anymore

All choices to be made by our corporate masters, with the full backing of the new state religion.

If you really want to beat the people down, there is no form of government more effective than a theocracy to do it.
(When has a theocracy ever fallen to a popular uprising?)

Of course, the corporate elite do not want to live under a theocracy themselves,
they would live above it, like the sheiks of Saudi Arabia.

[Laelth]

39. Only Nixon could go to China. Only Obama can gut Social Security.

The Democratic Party better prove, soon, that it is on the side of the people, or many people may conclude that they're better off under the Republicans. They couldn't gut Social Security.

-Laelth

[babsbunny]

2. many posts just like this one.

Not sure what it means yet, but I am with you!

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Slay, I can see why this one is a tough call.

There are secondary industries that might benefit from those tax dollars. For example, Charities that depend on big donations from CEOs or people who have their pay scale. Unfortunately, you lump in the Heart Association with the P.A.C.'s in that group. I wish there was some ways to limit where those tax dollars can go.

You also have small businesses, such as home decorators and lawn services. If someone doesn't have ten grand, they'll probably not do any major renovations in their homes. And lawn services can be done by the home owner, if necessary.

I think it's good to remember who these people are because we have to figure out how to ensure they get business, even without the tax cuts for the rich. I'm sure there is a way to do it. We just haven't given it enough of our time to come up with an answer.

[rhett o rick]

5. Giving the billionaire $800 billion dollars will hurt the economy. They wont give the extra to

charity.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Unfortunately, I know people who work in the charity business.

It isn't easy, but they do what they can to get these donations.

The reason why I bring them up, is because they and their spouses, even if they are unemployed, will vote Republican because these CEOs are their life blood.

You have to get to know who you're fighting against. I don't like it. But it's a reality. So, how do we keep the Heart Association ticking, without money from CEO's? That's the kind of question you want to ask to get the votes that are going to the other side.

[rhett o rick]

22. Then give the $800 billion directly to the charities. It is absurd to justify giving $800

billion to the super-wealthy just because they give a little of it back to charity.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. No complaint here.

[slay]

9. So are we to be held hostage by the rich forever?

sure seems that way. And maybe other Dems are ok with this. I'm not. I'm not expecting other people to abandon the Dems over this - but this IS my line in the sand - and it results not just from this, but from many other betrayals by this congress and the Obama admin. At some point people are going to have to stop watching this slow (getting much faster now) decline of America and make a stand. It's not my place to tell them how or when, but this is mine.

I understand your points but this is just not something I can ever get behind - the positives that would result from giving tax cuts to millionaires are far, far outweighed by the damage it will do. I can't be held hostage to a two party system that rigs the system in favor of millionaires while the rest of us struggle to even survive. I just can't.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I don't expect you to get behind giving taxes to the rich.

I want you to find a way to get the votes that we're losing to the Republicans because we don't have an answer or alternative to the system.

[Hello_Kitty]

33. The public overwhelmingly supports rolling back the tax cuts to the rich. eom

[RegieRocker]

4. People with that kind of money

and more don't pay their fare share now. Warren Buffet said "My secretary pays more of her money in taxes than I do" People will never wake up.

[stray cat]

6. That worked well for me in 2000

[mmonk]

10. I will become a progressive independent if that happens.

Of course I will still send money to the Progressive Caucus. I just won't be taken as an idiot or for a ride anymore.

[Ratty]

25. Seriously thinking of going Green

Yeah, I vilified them back in 2000. Maybe it's just taken me longer to see the light.

[NNN0LHI]

38. I am going to call myself a property tax reducing independent

Looks like we are all going our own way.

Don

[McCamy Taylor]

12. But..but...they might get some of that money back from the Super Pacs!

Just kidding. We all know which party will get even more donations in 2012 if the rich have more money to throw around. Aren't the Dems generous, supplying the opposition with funding.

[TheWebHead]

13. sounds like an emotional argument ignoring economic grounds

What if raising the top tax rate resulted in a 5% decline in equities, and in the process resulted in $100s of millions of lost wealth, and $50 billion plus in lost capital gains income to the government, and $10s of billions more in lost tax and job creating spending from that added wealth? There are important ideological divides to focus one's energy on, whether those earning $250k+ a year pay 36% or 39% in federal taxes isn't one of them... of all the Obama bitching that goes on at DU, this tax issue has to be the least justifiable.

[slay]

14. This country did it's best when the rich were taxed at 75%

Look it up. I highly question the motives behind YOUR post. EOM.

[TheWebHead]

17. during the times of higher tax rates

the environment was a lot different, whether it be world wars, much of the world under communist rule, dictatorships, etc. Of all the places to house investment capital, we were the world's magnet, boosted by the fact that our normalized GDP growth was the world's highest because of the industrial revolution. So now all the growth is in the emerging markets, they've lowered tax rates, the communists like China adopt more business friendly policy (outside of IP) than the developed economies, and hence the need to adopt more competitive tax policy. The religious right frightens me, Cheney-esque foreign policy likewise, those who want to eliminate entitlements I'd argue might later wish to change their mind after seeing the economic changes in behavior, but this stick it to the rich and/or corporations I can't co-sign to. It's hard to argue we don't have a pretty progressive tax system when 47% of U.S. households paid no federal income tax in 2009.

[Erose999]

27. How many households out of your 47% figure were unemployed, or retirees, etc. You know,

the people who the GOOP are trying to keep from getting their due.

[Hello_Kitty]

31. Or people working in low wage service jobs.

Who have to support themselves and their families on $8 an hour. What the person we're responding to doesn't understand is that the tax breaks to the poor are effectively a subsidy to the rich people he worships. It keeps the wage slaves mollified enough to not burn the fucking Walmart down.

[Hello_Kitty]

29. Wow. That is a treasure trove of supply side horseshit.

I can see they taught you well in your MBA courses.

[kctim]

30. Shhhhhhh

You MUST resent the rich or you are not a "real" Democrat.

[Hello_Kitty]

32. Hey keep licking their asses if you want.

Maybe they'll give you a cookie.

[bluetrain]

18. 'Bout time.

[kath]

19. This is my line in the sand as well -- NO real Democrat gives tax breaks to millionaires. Period.

Been saying this for weeks - if they do this, I am DONE.

[pansypoo53219]

20. wrong option. the MEDIA made them battred wived. the media is rite wing

not liberal. we need the media to fall out of love with republikkkans. til then, we get shit.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

21. +1!!! I suspect that the Democrats will lose a good number of supporters. n.t

[jillan]

23. My line in the sand as well. Tell me just how many times Obama said he would not extend the bush

tax cuts for the wealthy?


Obama - what do you stand for? I really don't know anymore, and it's painful to think about it.

I've given him so much patience - I told myself I understood why he sent more troops to Afghanistan.
I told myself he could never get the public option passed thru Congress.
I told myself that he doesn't have the votes to end DADT.

But if he turns his back on the middle class - I am done.

[BzaDem]

26. Interesting. The Democrats would "lose" you if the cuts are temporarily extended. Therefore, you

will vote in the general election that will enable a Republican to take office, that will make all the cuts permanent and flatten the tax code even further.

You keep talking about how the Democrats are not on your side. Well, how could someone who enables a flat tax (by voting against the Democrat) POSSIBLY be on the side of the middle class? What's the meaningful difference between a flat tax enabler on the right and a flat tax enabler on the left?

[bullwinkle428]

35. Tom Harkin : If Obama caves on the tax issue, he better pray for Palin as opponent in 2012

[BzaDem]

37. So? How does that make enabling Republicans in the voting booth from the left any different from

enabling Republicans in the voting booth on the right?

[slay]

40. It's Obama and congress who are enabling the Republicans

your Ralph Nader argument doesn't work on me. The Dems can win or lose me regardless of the republicans otherwise republicans dictate everything just like they do now. So if you mean will I be held hostage by Dems who act like Republicans who try and scare me to vote for their shitty Dem candidate cause the Republican option is worse? Ha. No. I actually had faith in Obama and gave him a chance in 2008 but now, I would never vote for him given a better choice and you're damn right I might vote 3rd party over this BULLSHIT we've seen the last 2 years from him and the Dems! :grr:

My vote is for real progress towards a future where we are not all wage slaves in a fascist, corporate state - not to ward off whatever Republican boogyman they throw at us. If the Dems don't represent the people anymore, then my vote will go to whoever does. Whether that be Dennis Kucinich or Ron Paul or Bernie Sanders or Alan Grayson or whoever.

[NNN0LHI]

34. What makes you think you will get banned? Did the rules change again?

I will work to unseat any politician who doesn't make reducing my property taxes their top priority here in Illinois. Dem or Repug doesn't matter.

Its every man for himself now.

Don