Not one brick layer.

[asdjrocky]

Not one sheet metal fabricator. No electricians. No nurses. You tell me, any custodians or hotel maids? I didn't see one.

This is a very short, and incomplete list of professions not represented on President Obama's cat food commission.

[leftstreet]

1. Those people never loved The Rich

:cry:

K&R

[SidDithers]

2. 'Cause I always go to my brick layer for financial advice...

and I let my sheet metal fabricator work on my teeth, and my nurse fix the plumbing in my house.

:eyes:

Sid

[PassingFair]

3. Democracy means more than just two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

ONE union guy?

[Greyhound]

16. Ben Franklin said that that is exactly what Democracy is...

he finished his statement with "...liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote!"

[AndrewP]

4. I think there was a larger point being made here n/t

[asdjrocky]

5. They are making decisions that effect these peoples lives.

They are telling brick layers, nurses and sheet metal workers that they have to do their back breaking work longer.

Your comment is lame.

[SidDithers]

10. No, your post was lame...

sometimes, a certain amount of knowledge about a subject is required to make recommendations about that subject. The internet means everyone thinks they're an expert.

They're not.

Sid

[AnArmyVeteran]

15. But there ARE a lot of McGuyvers out there who can do many things well.

But I get your point. It would have been nice to have less prominent 'experts' on that commission though, like people who actually deal with people who will be affected by decisions made at the top. Anyone would be better than Simpson.

[tavalon]

29. I fix the plumbing in my house, so I think you could feel safe trusting

this nurse to fix your plumbing. Aside from the unintended double meaning there, I do believe I don't understand your point.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Obama Appointee to the Commission, Andy Stern former President of SEIU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Stern

[asdjrocky]

9. Born the son of a lawyer.

Andy, bless his heart, has never done hard labor in his life.

[SidDithers]

11. Only hard labour is valuable labour?...

:rofl:

Don't the millions of male and female white-collar workers count in your workers paradise?

Sid

Edit: spelling again. New laptop, slightly different spacing on the keyboard.

[asdjrocky]

13. Not at all.

But hard labor is far more affected by an older retirement age. But your realize that, don't you?

[SidDithers]

17. OK, so apart from "I want to retire at 65, not 69"...

what sorts of economic and financial suggestions would your hypothetical brick layer be able to contribute to a presidential commission looking at deficit reduction opportunities across the entire economy?

Sid

[Bennyboy]

20. As a brick layer, tile setter, mason...

I get the OP's thoughts here. For me, moving the goal posts is horrible. I am too broke down to work and not broke down enough for SSI. everyone I know that worked in construction are this way. Most are on SSI.

They killed off the unions so I got nothing other than shoulders that won't allow me to do anything.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

23. My dad and his dad were bricklayers

Both retired at 65 and didn't have many days of good health after that.

[Bennyboy]

24. How;d they make it that long.?

I was DONE at 45 and mostly done at 40. But I worked mostly non union jobs with no safety measures, nothing but deadlines and requirements and piece work.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

25. I don't know.

It was the only work they knew and they made good money I guess. My dad soon got shoulder and knee problems when he retired and he now has Parkinson's. Towards the end of his career he did a lot of fancy brick work and some tile setting.

My dad said being a brickie was fun when he was a kid but he grew to hate it because it was was such hard work. This was in England by the way and he did a five year apprenticeship. I can't believe how hard he worked, even in very bad weather. He used to get so pissed off when he saw people jogging. He couldn't understand why they had so much energy to burn. He used to call them "mad buggers" and thought they should put their energy into something useful. lol.

He was lucky to make it to 65 and so was my granddad. The other side of my family were coal miners. These bastards who think working till you're damn near 70 is okay, have the kind of jobs that if they weren't getting paid to do them, they would do as a hobby.

[Bennyboy]

26. I did the math once...

and a brick mason moves 2 tons of materials every day. A Hoddie even more and more times. Sand, cement, clay and bricks all loaded onto the truck, off the truck, through the mixer and to the mason. 2 tons of stuff moved four times, 50 feet each time. Every day.

Sounds like your Dad was a union, guy with all that training. That good, they tend to take care of the workers. I was only in the union ofr a while. Ther est of the time I was a non union guy.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Would you deny that Mr. Stern seeks to accurately and vigorously promote the interests of

workers?

It seems that he's made a life of working hard for the very people you want to see on the commission. Is he not an accurate voice for those people? Is he not a vigorous advocate? Might he not have a clear and well-informed global view of the many very real factors affecting such people?

It seems like he was appointed to the committee precisely because he has been a lifelong and successful advocate for labor.

But you want a bricklayer or hotel maid, right? Not somebody who has spent his life informing himself about the multiple complex issues affecting the lives across a broad spectrum of such workers. He can't speak for them, right, because he's the son of a lawyer and went to UPenn? I think I understand.

By the way, Andy Stern voted against the commission chairs' recommendation.

[asdjrocky]

21. I would not deny that.

Would you deny that listing to the perspective of someone actually doing some work, even if only through testimony may have been useful?

I want to HEAR from the brick layers and hotel maids. What is wrong with that?

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. Nothing's wrong with that

Indeed, if any of these recommendations move to legislation, I think we should have voluminous testimony from working people of many occupations, including those that involve heavy physical labor. It certainly goes to the point of increasing the retirement age, and demonstrates why such a increase cannot be universally applied, supposing it should be applied at all (I don't think it should).

I think a commission tasked with studying a problem should be staffed with people who have the qualifications to do that study at the broadest level. That said, the deficit commission did hear testimony from people who do physical labor. Here, for example, is testimony from National Nurses United, which goes, in some parts, precisely to the difficulty of the physical labor and the question of raising the retirement age for Social Security Benefits:

http://www.californiaalliance.org/pdf/2599.Deficit_Commission_Testimony.pdf

Here's the full list of groups that presented testimony to thye commission, outside of the meeting testimony:

# AFL-CIO
# ASCFME
# Alliance for Retired Americans
# America Speaks
# American Academy of Pediatrics
# American Association of University Women
# Americans for Tax Reform
# Association of American Universities
# Bread for the World
# Business Coalition for Fair Competition
# Business Roundtable
# California Retired Teachers Association
# Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
# Cato Institute
# Center for American Progress
# Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
# Charles Lyle
# Citizens for Tax Justice
# Coalition for Health Funding
# Coalition on Human Needs
# Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
# Committee on Education Funding
# Concerned Youth of America
# Concord Coalition
# Consortium of Citizens with Disabilities
# Democratic Leadership Council
# Economic Policy Institute
# Financial Services Forum
# Fiscal Policy Institute
# Frank Restly
# Hanover Investment Group
# Healthcare NOW
# Heritage Foundation
# Immigration Policy Center
# Institute for America’s Future
# Institute for Women’s Policy Research
# Joseph Guggenheim
# Mercatus Center at George Mason University
# Migration Policy Institute
# Military Officers Association of America
# National Academy of Social insurance
# National Active and Retired Federal Employees
# National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare
# National Council of Women’s Organizations
# National Disability Institute and Burton Blatt Institute, Syracuse University
# National Education Association
# National Gay and Lesbian Task Force
# National Immigration Forum
# National Nurses United
# OMB Watch
# Older Women’s League
# Paralyzed Veterans of America
# Peter G. Peterson Foundation
# Pew Charitable Trusts
# Physicians for a National Health Program
# Progressive Policy Institute
# Prosperity Agenda
# Roosevelt Institute at American University
# Service Employees International Union
# Small Business Legislative Council
# Social Security Works
# Speak Out America Now
# Stephen Moorhead
# Third Way
# U.S. Public Interest Research Group
# United Church of Christ
# Virginia P Reno
# Voices for America’s Children
# Wider Opportunities for Women
# William McClellan
# Women Impacting Public Policy
# Women’s Action for New Directions
# Yavapai Regional Capital
# Young Americans for Federal Debt Awareness
# Zero to Three

[jaxx]

7. Are you out of sorts because it didn't get the votes and all the bs

about what was going to happen isn't?

LOL I am not surprised, CYA is in progress. :rofl:

[asdjrocky]

12. You must be a really sad person.

I'm speaking, or trying to make a point, that labor doesn't get a say. No one ever asked them.

Also, they will take this report and use it for a starting point for the next budget negotiations, and you should know that. We are going to be squeezed even harder, and the commission made that possible.

[jaxx]

18. Labor was represented.

Saying it wasn't isn't true.

We know nothing until it happens. Look at all the hype before today...it'll pass, Pelosi will vote on it. Nothing like that is happening. If people would quit trying to second guess everything in the worst possible way this country would be better off. If it's not true, don't say it. Conjecture isn't reality. It's conspiracy and the naysayers are getting less and less intent on truth.

[Octafish]

28. One guy -- Stern -- 'represented' labor. The rest were CEO/Congressional/Executive Class

1:17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Fiscal_Responsibility_and_Reform

[WingDinger]

8. Damn straight. Allowing those in HARD PHYSICAL jobs to retire at 60

is only saying to them to apply for SS dis, under another name. And likely just as skewed a process. As it is now, you will die trying for SS dis, unless you are already dead. And they know it.

[asdjrocky]

19. I know guys that can barely walk, and they are in their 50's.

Of course, if they are lucky enough to be working, they always man up when it comes time to go.

[Brickbat]

27. Class diversity is severely overlooked in all the chit-chat about "diversity" that goes on.

[Octafish]

30. A favorite bricklayer...

The author of "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich."