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Sen. Bernie Sanders: A Real JAW DROPPER At The FEDERAL RESERVE

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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 12:59 AM
Original message
Sen. Bernie Sanders: A Real JAW DROPPER At The FEDERAL RESERVE
:applause:



-......." After years of stonewalling by the Fed, the American people are finally learning the incredible and jaw-dropping details of the Fed's multi-trillion-dollar bailout of Wall Street and corporate America. As a result of this disclosure, other members of Congress and I will be taking a very extensive look at all aspects of how the Federal Reserve functions and how we can make our financial institutions more responsive to the needs of ordinary Americans and small businesses.


What have we learned so far from the disclosure of more than 21,000 transactions? We have learned that the $700 billion Wall Street bailout signed into law by President George W. Bush turned out to be pocket change compared to the trillions and trillions of dollars in near-zero interest loans and other financial arrangements the Federal Reserve doled out to every major financial institution in this country. Among those are Goldman Sachs, which received nearly $600 billion; Morgan Stanley, which received nearly $2 trillion; Citigroup, which received $1.8 trillion; Bear Stearns, which received nearly $1 trillion, and Merrill Lynch, which received some $1.5 trillion in short term loans from the Fed.


We also learned that the Fed's multi-trillion bailout was not limited to Wall Street and big banks, but that some of the largest corporations in this country also received a very substantial bailout. Among those are General Electric, McDonald's, Caterpillar, Harley Davidson, Toyota and Verizon.


Perhaps most surprising is the huge sum that went to bail out foreign private banks and corporations including two European megabanks -- Deutsche Bank and Credit Suisse -- which were the largest beneficiaries of the Fed's purchase of mortgage-backed securities.


Deutsche Bank, a German lender, sold the Fed more than $290 billion worth of mortgage securities. Credit Suisse, a Swiss bank, sold the Fed more than $287 billion in mortgage bonds.


Has the Federal Reserve of the United States become the central bank of the world?


The Fed said that this bailout was necessary to prevent the world economy from going over a cliff. But three years after the start of the recession, millions of Americans remain unemployed and have lost their homes, life savings and ability to send their kids to college. Meanwhile, big banks and corporations have returned to making huge profits and paying their executives record-breaking compensation packages as if the financial crisis they started never happened.


What this disclosure tells us, among many other things, is that despite this huge taxpayer bailout, the Fed did not make the appropriate demands on these institutions necessary to rebuild our economy and protect the needs of ordinary Americans.


For example, at a time when big banks have nearly a trillion dollars in excess reserves parked at the Fed, the Fed did not require these institutions to increase lending to small- and medium-sized businesses as a condition of the bailout.


At a time when large corporations are more profitable than ever, the Fed did not demand that corporations that received this backdoor bailout create jobs and expand the economy once they returned to profitability.


I intend to investigate whether these secret Fed loans, in some cases, turned out to be direct corporate welfare to big banks that used these loans not to reinvest in the economy but rather to lend back to the federal government at a higher rate of interest by purchasing Treasury Securities. Instead of using this money to reinvest in the productive economy, I suspect a large portion of these near-zero interest loans were used to buy Treasury Securities at a higher interest rate providing free money to some of the largest financial institutions in this country. That is something that we have got to closely examine.



cont'

<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/a-real-jaw-dropper-at-the_b_791091.html>
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Notice, this is
a result of that mediocre policy, Wall Street reform:

A year and a half later, as a result of an amendment that I was able to include in the Wall Street reform bill, we have begun to lift the veil of secrecy at the Fed, and the American people now have this information.


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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. This was a very good part of the bill which was, originally, much better.
The WH lobbied intensively to scuttle the deep audit of the Fed that the House passed. Wonder what we'd have found if that had passed.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I keep reminding myself that BUSH is NO longer in office
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 01:29 AM by Segami
but his spirit seems to have lingered on with this administration.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Bush may become the most influential president in American history.
We and our children and our children's children might have to live under his dark, destructive shadow.
He gave the reins of unbridled power to the underserving rich and I doubt that the people will ever get them back.
The idle rich are in control both parties now.
The Republicans follow their commands with delight and the Democrats grudgingly but they both follow.

Who'd uv thunk?

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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
32. Grudgingly? I don't think so.
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 04:14 PM by cui bono
Obama brought Wall Street into the WH, he continues unconstitutional actions such as warrantless wiretapping, Gitmo, DADT... he tells progressives to shut up, tells the justice dept. to not investigate war criminals, he acquiesces to demands based on lies before he even gets to the negotiations, he doesn't fight for anything he promised to during his campaign, he doesn't bring that same fight to the table now that he is president. He is willfully doing all these things and by doing so he has moved the Dems even farther to the right. We have no left representing us in this country anymore and that seems to be just what he wants. We need a new party that actually represents the people, you know, like our founding fathers envisioned.

It's become truly disgusting by now. I can't even listen to him anymore.

Pelosi: Impeachment is off the table.

Reid: Rolls over every time Republicans say boo instead of making them actually filibuster anything. Weakest ever.

No one tries anymore except for a handful.


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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. This is how so many of us feel. WTF happened. What was his price?
$$ or children? It's hard to surprise me anymore.

Cheers
Sandy
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. Wall Street can't be kept out of the WH they bought it fair and square.
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Moostache Donating Member (905 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
63. RE: "No one tries anymore except for a handful."
Sad but true...names like Feingold and Grayson come to mind and the last election cycle showed exactly what talks in Congre$$ these days.

The thing that pisses me off to no end is that I bought it from Obama hook, line and sinker. I believed in him. I believed that he would fight to restore this country. I believed that he was more FDR than Clinton. I was played like a Stradivarius and it stings like a fucking bitch. Not only does it sting, but I fear we have lost the last chance to right this ship in my lifetime because of it.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
65. I have been watching it happen for most of my lifetime now! ( 71)
It began in earnest in 1981, but LET US NOT FORGET JFK WAS MURDERED! 1963! the beginning of the end, they really got control THEN!
Nixon ruined public education back in the beginning of the 70's ( not to mention Vietnam) GHW bush, was CIA Waaaaaaay back. His favorite UNCLE'S SUGAR PLANTATION was seized & nationalized.by Castro.................The cuban missile crisis in 1962......
It's HELL being OLD!~ FINALLY PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO ME BUT I'VE KNOWN FOR YEARS!

:mad: :bounce: :nuke:
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
30. Bush has been succeeded by O'Bush.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. " WH lobbied intensively"
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 01:31 AM by ProSense
By all accounts, the WH tried to kill the bill based on the massive proposal the President submitted to Congress, and he hates his friend Elizabeth Warren.

Seriously, it's the same thing that has been ongoing since the beginning of this administration. If the President didn't want all the things people claimed he was against, he would have vetoed the bill.

Next, someone will say he was too coward to veto, but he vetoed the foreclosure bill and some people though that was a trick that would allow it to become law.

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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. ...
Once Mr. Sanders agreed to modify his measure late last week, the White House dropped its lobbying campaign against the amendment, as illustrated by Tuesday's strong support. The Fed also grudgingly accepted the compromise, though Mr. Sanders has said he expects central bank officials to fight against its inclusion in the final bill, which House and Senate negotiators will hammer out in conference.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704250104575238130707230588.html

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. Hmmm?
So what's the OP cheering?

Once Mr. Sanders agreed to modify his measure late last week, the White House dropped its lobbying campaign against the amendment, as illustrated by Tuesday's strong support. The Fed also grudgingly accepted the compromise, though Mr. Sanders has said he expects central bank officials to fight against its inclusion in the final bill, which House and Senate negotiators will hammer out in conference.


The modified measure? The Wall Street reform bill that was signed into law is responsible for the action in the OP, not the version that wasn't included.




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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. Don't you know that Obama must never
receive praise or credit - ever.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. I'm dying to give him some praise
Hopefully soon he will earn it?
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
28. you won't get
an immediate response to that one. Except to quote some article that says "really, the WH does want the bill to pass, but...".

:shrug:

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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Oh goody. That will make it all better.
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Segami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. LOL.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Tell it to Bernie Sanders.
He's the one that keeps pointing it out.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Actually, it's the result of one man's battle with the Federal Reserve.
We have Mark Pittman to thank for this. The Fed was bound to lose all appeals. Bernie Sanders sped the process up a bit, but note that the Fed is still withholding vital information.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Oh, you mean that worthless bill the corporations wanted?
This reminds me of Sanders' provision in the HCR bill that allows states to set up single-payer systems. Did Sanders have this much power and influence when Bush was President?
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
49. Bernanke and Geithner should resign.
Have you seen the movie, Inside Job?
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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. Will somebody ever go to jail over this?
Yes! You, me and everyone else here on DU if we don't pay our taxes to keep funding these bailouts and the wars :grr:
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
43. The difference between wars and bail-outs is the bail-outs all got paid back
Likely in the history books and among economists the TARP program will appear objectively as a great success which accomplished what it intended and actually turned a profit.

The wars, one the other hand, are like boulders tied to our feet. History will likely be less kind there, depending on how things finally turn out.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Didn't read the OP, did you?
TARP was only the smallest of small drops of what they actually got, and they borrowed from the Fed to pay it back so they wouldn't be bound by the restrictions.

Do you REALLY think they'll pay back TRILLIONS per bank? There isn't that much money in the pockets of normal Americans to steal.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. They were overnight loans - read the OP
This was all in the news at the time. Its all settled and gone by, and there are no TRILLIONS to pay back.

The way you get to quantities that high in any case is by lending the same few billion 21,000 times on very short-term loans. I have to say, I'm not overjoyed with the idea that the TARP program was such a big part of the stimulus program, and that the corrupt global banking system was given such a high priority, but the program successfully did what it was designed to do and is pretty close to being wound up now, at better than even money to the taxpayer.
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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
62. Success?
TARP was George W. Bush's idea and implemented during his presidency so you must be giving him all the credit for it.

That was his last FU to America before leaving office. He helped the banks still pay six figure bonuses to take away and kick Americans out of their homes.

Success my ass!
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #62
70. The banks went from the brink of failure to profitability
The object of TARP was to prevent their failure, ideally in such a way as to allow them to get back on their feet and repay all funds extended to them. They didn't fail, they returned to profitability, and they repaid all the funds. By any measure, that was a highly successful government-managed rescue of a large segment of the economy.

I'm not by any means a fan of large banks or our financial system as a whole, but its collapse (which was immanent, if you recall the times) would have led to a much deeper and longer lasting hard-times than the one we are currently enjoying. Job done well; give a little credit.

As far as credit (or blame) I think the * administration had more or less stood aside at the point of crisis, and let the treasury sec and fed manage it, until Obama took over the reins and brought it to a finish more or less recently.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. That was excellent.
Bernie Sanders is one of the few good ones.
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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. I want to puke.
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The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
Audit the heck out the fed!!!
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
16. Which proves what a variety of non=governmental economists and finance experts said
was done a year and a half ago. The estimates at that time were $9T - $15T. Like the Wikileaks distraction, this only to confirms what was known for quite some time. President Obama & Co. have abdicated governance to the corporate overlords.

Still, :kick: & R for removing a whole bunch of "pragmatic" talking points, and confirming the sell-out.

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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
44. 21,000 short term loans
Which in the global credit market often means "overnight". The sum of individual short term loans was likely comparatively small, given the large number of them, and I think the important thing that is missed (deliberately or otherwise) by many reading the article is first that every penny was paid back, and second that the risks were infinitesimal unless the system collapsed. The loans themselves were designed to shore up the system and prevent collapse, which they did quite successfully.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
17. k&r for Bernie Sanders, a true guardian of the interests of the people. n/t
-Laelth
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
18. If the Tea Party wants something to be pissed about
this should be it.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. They're too busy railing against the Black Man in the White House
See, it really is about racism with these folks. Bush bailouts...not a peep. This new disclosure...won't hear a peep. Black man in the White House...demonstrations in the street, new "political party", gotta take action
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. They are pretty pissed about this
The Tea Party started with TARP.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. They should be pissed at Republicans and not the Fed
Fed bashing is just a easy way to abdicate any responsibility for Republican policies.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you, Senator Sanders
For acting as an honest American.
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INdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
56. We need Sanders to run for President..
Sanders 2012.....We need him to save what is left of our Democracy
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Jeffersons Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
21. K&R
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
66. Yeh! Right! Him & Kucinich & Dean!
Dream on...............
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. K & R!
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Super KNR!! n/t
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. And the looting of the national treasury is nearly complete.
With help from both Repubs and Dems. Anyone who thinks there is any real difference between the two parties is beyond naive. Today's Demopublican political system makes the Mafia of old look like mere amateurs.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. K&R for Bernie Sanders.
May he be one of the first humans to benefit from the anti-aging process recently discovered by scientists. And how about cloning him, too!
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Audit the Federal Reserve now!
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rtassi Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. Where is the surprise in any of this .. I mean really?
Berni just figured this out and now wants to investigate? He should get out more often!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
35. recommend
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R ! //nt
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
38. This is a good thing, the Fed is being the lender of last resort
Edited on Sat Dec-04-10 05:35 PM by Taitertots
Would you rather suffer through a depression several orders of magnitude worse? All the empirical data shows that is exactly what would happen if the Fed didn't offer overnight lending.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
39. What happened to HR 1207 that had 320 cosponsors ...
it was replaced with a "one time audit"

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1207


Ron Paul slams Audit the Fed vote

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/05/ron_pauls_group_slams_audit_th.html

Vitter amendment vote, Dems voting in favor were ... Cantwell, Dorgan, Feingold, Lincoln, Sanders (I), Webb, Wyden.
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00138


"Earlier today I marked down the 96-0 Senate vote for Sen. Bernie Sanders's (D-Vt.) "Audit the Fed" amendment as a big win for one of Rep. Ron Paul's (R-Tex.) lifelong causes. But that's not quite how Paul sees it. He's criticizing the vote, expressing "disappointment" while giving Sanders some credit for the scaled-back win.

And the Campaign for Liberty, Paul's 501(c)4, is now attacking the compromise. Press releases below the fold.

From Paul:

Congressman Ron Paul (TX-14) today expressed disappointment that the Senate failed to pass an amendment offered by Senator Vitter (amending the Senate financial reform bill), which included the express language of Congressman Paul’s landmark “Audit the Fed” legislation. Paul’s legislation passed by a large margin in the House of Representatives last fall as part of the House financial reform bill, and Senator Vitter’s amendment would have paved the way for a full and ongoing audit of all of the Federal Reserve’s lending and monetary policy activity.

However, the Vitter amendment was supported by over 1/3 of the Senate, and the Sanders amendment (calling for disclosure of how approximately $2 trillion of Federal Reserve credit facilities were dispersed) passed unanimously today in the Senate. Therefore Paul remains hopeful that momentum is shifting and the days of Federal Reserve secrecy are coming to an end.

“The 37 votes our measure received in the Senate represent a strong step in our continuing work for full Federal Reserve transparency. In addition, the passage of the Sanders Amendment is a victory for taxpayers, who will finally know who received $2 trillion of their money,” stated Congressman Paul. “The Fed is no longer an untouchable monolith. It can no longer take for granted its absolute power to create and give away public money at will, with no true accountability. With strong support in the Senate, the House, and especially among the public, more victories for full transparency lie ahead..."




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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
41. "Short-term loans" is the key to this deceptive write-up
If I borrow a trillion dollars from you, then give it back the next day, its all good, right? If I borrow 100 billion ten times that way, then that's a trillion total. If you divide the total of the short term loans by the quantity 21,000, then you have less astronomical figures, which are more reasonable given the capitalization of the corporations involved.

Anyone who followed the general freeze-up of credit knows that this went on, as the fed publicly stated it and the whole thing was widely reported on. The problem was that short-term large-sum credit was suddenly not available and without Fed intervention there would have been large-scale bankruptcies, simply because the credit market had never behaved that way before and it hadn't been planned for.

The most important point to anyone should be that all of the money was repaid, and the institutions which were "bailed out" survived and returned to profitability. By any measure of success, the whole program was a success story.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. You understand it. The OP doesn't...
This is yet another thread by someone who doesn't know how overnight loans work, and how deceptive the article is.

One analogy that was used by another poster was if a $100,000 home mortgage was reported the same way as in the article, they would say that after a year, $36,500,000 had been borrowed.

Sid
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #48
64. Lesson #1 in reading comprehension.
ALL the words in the OP were Bernie Sanders words.

Also, these were not your typical overnight loans, but longer term loans from different Fed "facilities". It has been reported before by whistleblowers, that the banks were in fact borrowing money (longer term) at zero interest, then loaning it back to the gov't for interest, by purchasing T-bills at a higher interest rate.

It's called a wealth transfer, or a giveaway, or a subsidy.

I call it a scam and a fraud. I wish I could call it a crime.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. What you are saying:
Government monies were in some cases loaned at low or zero interest rates.

The borrowed money was then used to purchase treasury bonds with significantly higher yields.

Ok, this likely did happen, as certainly all the banks involved did receive loans at lower interest rates than the T-bill yields, and all the banks involved did in the normal course of business hold and trade t-bills, and the existence of the low interest funds probably allowed this trade to proceed at a higher rate than it would have otherwise...so the profits from the difference in loan interest and t-bill interest could be seen as a give-away, wealth transfer or subsidy.

Fair enough; but still the time periods were very short, so the interest gained was reasonably small, the actual sums lent out were returned according to the terms agreed upon, and if you have followed the T-bill market you would know that the interest paid is at a historic low. Seeing on the Federal ledger that the sum total of program outlays matches well with the sum total of program income, and the industry has returned to relative health, its hard to see how worked up we should be over some possible interest income we might have earned but didn't. The program achieved its goal at a cost far below what was expected - essentially zero.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. What gets me is all these rich bastards who would of been losing
their shirts like everyone else who lost their savings, or like anyone who has lost their jobs, instead these guys get a free pass and millions of dollars worth of salary to boot.


Bush's guys set this up.
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. You would have lost dramatically more
How much are you willing to give up to spite those people for making money?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Exactly what am I giving up and who would I be spiting? I
don't follow the logic or reasoning behind the question. Could you elaborate please. :hi:
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. "Rich Bastards" are who you would spite by ending overnight lending
When the bank that holds your money needs an overnight loan during a credit crunch do you want to force it into insolvency or lend to it?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Not the Banks, the crooks who run them and would otherwise
of lost their shirts like everyone else. I think there is a difference between a credit crunch, an overnight loan, and a trillion dollars bail-out due to illegal practices.

See this link for my definition of rich bastard...



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4142290&mesg_id=4142290
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Can't hurt them without hurting the banks and the whole financial system
You would still lose orders of magnitude more than them if the financial system wasn't "bailed out". You are going to cause a depression for the working class and it still wouldn't cause the "rich bastards" to be shirtless.

What trillion dollars are you talking about? The trillion used to BUY trillions worth in government securities and MBS. Or the Trillion in LOANS that have been repaid.
What illegal practices?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Your first line said it all. Does not mean that it should be
accepted, the rest of what you say puzzles me, but it was nice talking with you.. :hi:
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. Capital gains at low tax rates, low cost investment capitol - these guys have it made.
And they are fucking us every way to Sunday.

Rotten fucking Wall street bastards.
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
54. Proudly kicking for Bernie.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
57. k&r n/t
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-10 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
61. So...
what happened to the money...it doesn't just "disappear". It has to be someplace, investors, thieves?

I don't recall reading about any huge bonfire where cash was burned as an offering to currency gods...where did the money go?
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
67. Go Bernie! We need a hundred of him in Congress.
This is an outrage. The sheer enormity of these bailouts and loans all going to failed institutions, for what?

AND THEY HAVE THE NERVE to suggest cutting SS benefits???? Sorry for yelling, this is just, simply NOT acceptable. They MUST be stopped from making the working class pay for their criminal, corporate welfare programs. Are the American people ready yet to stand up and do something about all of this?
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
68. Aw geez, not this shit again. nt
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
69. Damn.
Edited on Sun Dec-05-10 12:58 AM by nc4bo
My God, those figures are as mindboggling as those wasted $$ spent fighting these horrible wars. Pure insanity.

The make me feel like puking.

I swear I wish there was a way I could specify where my tax dollars are spent. Funding corporate whores and illegal wars would not be on top of my list.

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