Do you have a sense that this tax extension is already rigged?

[dmosh42]

The senate just turned down the bill extending cuts for people who have $250,000 or less. There was 53 votes in favor, which is almost the same as when the Republicans passed three tax bills after 2000! How? Bush passed his under the reconciliation rules, and of course, the media were so happy, because the billionaires own the media. So now, the Dem leadership suddenly can't get around those rules and it needs 60 votes! And in this case, the result will be an added 300-700 billion dollars to the gov't revenue! I have yet to hear that word being used(reconciliation)in this argument, but it was thrown around daily when Obama wanted his health care bill, which has been a great present to the billionaires that are invested in that industry. So let's not accept that this Dem leadership is so much different than the Boehner-McConnell wing of the Repuke party. My opinion is that this has just been a big play carried out by Obama, who already knew he would go along with any slimy deals put up by the 'rich' partisans who control our government.

[Ken Burch]

1. I have little if any trust that it won't be "extended".

The number of "it's no biggie" posts that the paid DLC types here are making are pretty clearly pre-emptive efforts to soften us all up for it.

It seems clear that we're being prepared for the adminstration to go as far to the right as Clinton did after 1994, and also that we're going to be bashed over the head that we have no right to question or disagree with it, because "they're worse".

We're being set up for another "lesser evil" campaign. Even though all such campaigns end in defeat.

[BzaDem]

2. So it's impossible to be for the extension of middle class tax cuts and not be a "paid DLC type?"

"Even though all such campaigns end in defeat."

While I would dispute that Clinton's re-election campaign was a "lesser of two evils" campaign, I think you would disagree with my characterization. So it seems that your hypothesis that "all such campaigns end in defeat" is false.

[Ken Burch]

3. It's of no value to extend the middle-class tax cuts if the billionaries get them too

And there's no reason to consider it a worthwhile compromise to let the rich keep their tax cuts in exchange for the middle class keeping theirs(especially since the middle-class cuts are too small to matter).

That means the right wins. It also means progressive policies aren't possible in the future, because even if the rich people's tax cuts allowed to die in just "two years"(and we both KNOW that won't happen)there will be such a massively increased deficit that we'll just have to keep cutting social spending from here on it.

You're "it's no biggie" point is right-wing. It can't be a tactically positive thing to let the rich keep their tax cuts now. The tiny amount the middle class would save won't help us in 2012.

[BzaDem]

9. You assume what you are trying to show.

You simply state it is of no value. But how do you reach that conclusion?

If the middle class tax cuts expire, thats 310 billion of anti-stimulus per year. 310 billion per year of money that the middle class and poor used to have, but no longer have. (For the poor alone, the rate will jump from 10% to 15%, which is a 50% increase.) That would be devastating to consumer demand. In 2 years, it would probably make sense for them all to expire (since the economy will probably be in better shape), but a 310 anti stimulus this year and another 310 anti stimulus next year would be incredibly destructive.

[Recursion]

12. 3 trillion is a "tiny amount"?

Remind me not to make you my accountant.

[Ken Burch]

38. The amount the average middle-class taxpayer got wasn't that important

And it certainly couldn't be important enough to let the rich win on this.

[Ken Burch]

4. Clinton's victory was strictly personal, and of no value.

He governed as Dole would have. We should NEVER have settled for our party being THAT close to the GOP on the issues, ever.

[BzaDem]

6. Perhaps a reason he "governed as Dole would have" (assuming this for the sake of argument)

is that it is not possible to pass progressive legislation with a Republican Congress?

[Recursion]

8. You're forgetting "fight"! Or is it "spine"?

One of the two; they apparently empower a President to override the will of the Senate.

[PassingFair]

18. The Dems have proven that it is not possible to pass progressive legislation with a Dem Congress!

Disaster.

[Ken Burch]

35. It is possible, however, to fight to regain Democratic control of Congress

Truman did that. Clinton refused to. There's no reason to think Obama will be like Truman.

[Recursion]

11. What's really funny is the idea that the DLC would pay people

to post on Democratic Underground. Because, you know, this board is so important and so central to the political discussion of the country that the message here must absolutely be controlled...

[jaxx]

10. That smacks of paranoia.

There isn't anything there to comment on. Sad.

[Ken Burch]

34. No, it smacks of remembering history,

There's no reason at all to assume that letting the tax cuts for the rich go on for "two years" won't mean they'll stay in place forever.

If the prez doesn't have the guts now, he won't have them then.

[old mark]

15. I'm afraid you are right - the remaining Obama years will be pretty much

of nothing for Liberals..OK, I know, I know...


mark

[egoclothes]

5. I wondered about reconciliation myself as I

had not heard the word either. But it seems Obama has a deal he wants now. We are doomed.

[Recursion]

7. We already used reconciliation this year

You get to do that once per year; conceivably we could use reconciliation in the next Congress, but there will probably not be a House bill to reconcile it with at that point.

[dmosh42]

13. You are correct. I re-read the rules and did find that ...

it can be used just once per year. So now the Repukes will use it on us after New Years!

[Dr Morbius]

14. The GOP doesn't control the Senate.

There will be no use of reconciliation to pass new tax cuts.

President Obama is going to give in on this one, I think. He has little choice. The economy will be screwed otherwise, and the Republicans are masters at passing the blame - so they'd win the White House and both houses of Congress in 2012. We may hate him for it, but I think President Obama is going to have to cave completely.

Remember who is really in charge in America: it isn't the government, and it isn't the people.

[glitch]

17. Good point.

"Remember who is really in charge in America: it isn't the government, and it isn't the people."

[AlinPA]

47. Wrong, the republicans control the senate. They get what they want, if not they filibuster.

[Recursion]

16. They can't use it; they don't have 50 votes

We could technically use it now since it's already FY 11, but as I read it we have to have an intervening budget resolution (you have to reconcile spending for an existing budget), and the idea of the budget being passed in the lame duck session is frankly absurd.

[treestar]

26. Thanks for that reminder

There is too little understanding of the system around here. Pronouncements about reconciliation and the filibuster, devoid of any real knowledge, abound.

[PBS Poll-435]

30. Per fiscal year, not calendar year. nt

[Recursion]

31. As I read it there has to be an intervening Budget resolution

The continuing resolution this year doesn't "reset" it. But I'm far from a lawyer.

[sweetapogee]

22. maybe

not doomed but certainly out maneuvered. I have been saying this for some time but in my opinion, a very big mistake house dems made this year was not passing a budget. I know that almost everyone here will disagree with me but for this reason alone the dems should have totally changed leadership in the house for the next session. As far as the budget process is concerned, looking forward it would have been ok if we had kept the house but now the budget process is going to be in the hands of the house pukes and they will scale back spending programs to pre-Obama times. The President will have no choice but to sign it and he will get all the blame in 2012 for lost programs. This will be hard for him to justify to his base even if the economy vastly improves over the next 14-18 months. So I wouldn't go so far as to say doomed, but we have outsmarted ourselves.

[somone]

19. It was prearranged and preplanned

with professional choreography

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Dog and pony show from day 1....Millionaires will get their cuts, and the deficit will not be helped

Otherwise this would have all been on the agenda months ago...

[Greybnk48]

21. All rigged to favor the wealthy. Everything else is

theater, although I don't know why anyone bothers faking it anymore. I guess for the gullible, like those who think the Teabaggers are something other than the more racist Repugs in the Repug party.

[Odin2005]

23. Of course it is, The whole legislalative process is kabuki theater.

The Elites have made the decisions already.

[GeorgeGist]

24. I'm beginning to sense ...

that whole Obama Presidency was rigged from square one.

[treestar]

25. If I were paranoid I might think that

Or just determined to feel like a victim.

[Poboy]

27. Lest anyone forget, it was the President HIMSELF that telegraphed this CAVE last week from India.

Remember Axelrod coming out claiming a misunderstanding?

[somone]

29. Yep, preemptive surrender

is the usual MO

[B Calm]

28. So it passed with 53 votes, why aren't we screaming to Reid

to go ahead and send it to the president for his signature! Then we scream to Obama to not veto it!

[TBF]

32. With all the theatre going on (wikileaks, airport groping, fake votes, etc...) you wonder what they

are really doing behind the scenes ...

[B Calm]

33. They been doing exactly what they been doing for the last two years. They

been running the Senate like we have a republican president willing to veto any bill without 60 votes. Sickening when you think we could pass an unemployment extension, tax cuts for the working class and automatically raise the tax on the rich bastards who sent our jobs overseas on Jan 1, a public option, etc etc etc. . . . . . .

[Liquorice]

36. I think the tax cut extensions were settled long ago, and now we're just seeing theatre, so yes. nt

[gkhouston]

37. Hell, yes. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

39. Yes

[asdjrocky]

40. I have a sense that most things involving our government is rigged.

This is just one of those things.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

41. Reconciliation can only be used once per year...

...it was already used in 2010 from what I've heard.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

42. The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (Pub.L. 111-152, 124 Stat. 1029) is a law that was enacted by the 111th United States Congress, by means of the reconciliation process, in order to amend the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Pub.L. 111-148). It was signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 30, 2010.<1>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_Act_of_2010

[Raine]

43. ABSOLUTELY it's rigged

it's all theater, they've known all along what outcome they want and have already agreed upon. They are playing us all (both sides) for suckers. x(

[Gin]

45. ABC news basically said the deal is done....in order to get the UI

the President had to agree to extend tax cuts for all....only thing left is to decide for how long...

I give up....

[AlinPA]

46. The republicans control the senate.

[B Calm]

49. They could pass UI extension with 53 votes. You think Obama would veto it?

[meow mix]

44. caves you can believe in.

=(

[ThatsMyBarack]

48. ABC News said so....

And they are never wrong. :sarcasm: