If We ARE Going To Cave On Taxes... And It Certainly Smells That Way...

[WillyT]

What kind of DEAL, pound of flesh if you will, would be acceptable to YOU ???

I'd be willing to tolerate the following as a total package:

1) Extend the Bush Tax Cuts for everyone, for ONE year. This gives the "job creators" the certainty they so crave, and puts the issue of the tax cuts into the Presidential Election Year since they would expire on January 1st, 2012. If the economy improves in the next year, all will be better able to afford the new rates. And... if the Republicans want to extend them further, they would have to put that up to a vote.

2) Extend Unemployment Benefits for the unemployed, for the next TWO years. If the economy improves in the next year, the monies allocated for UI Benefits will become smaller and smaller. If the economy does NOT improve in the next year, these people will still need the help, and we will all have a new set of problems.

3) Buy off the debts of the various states around the country that are underwater. This, until recently, had been a traditional role of the Federal Government, and since the Fed apparently prints money in the Trillions for foreign banks and other entities... they can certainly pull the states out of their current financial messes, and get the states to fully fund medical, educational, and various other much needed services.

Just spit-ballin here, but if we are going to give MORE to the rich, I want something meaningful and tangible in return.

Ok... ready to shoot this full of holes ???

:evilgrin:

What do ya think???

:shrug:

:hi:

[Autumn]

1. I think it's going to happen and I certainly

would be open to getting something for it. I really like 2, mainly because I don't think any thing magical is going to happen in job creation, the tax breaks didn't create jobs before so I have no hope of then doing so now.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. not number 1

cut out the tax break for millionaires and plug loop holes for them to tax evade.

[WillyT]

5. That's What I'd RATHER Have...

Just don't think it's gonna happen.

:shrug:

:hi:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

30. surely DEMs should be calling the GOP out over tax breaks for miilionaires

[dionysus]

3. 3 might be tough, but i like it.

[tularetom]

4. Apparently you are unaware of the meaning of the verb "to cave"

In the context of the 21st century Democratic party, it means to give the opposition everything they stamp their feet and scream for, without demanding any concessions in return.

While not as good as a permanent expiration of the tax cuts, your proposals are a reasonable compromise.

But the republicans will insist that they can't vote for something that is not "paid for", ignoring that argument when it is applied to tax cuts.

And the Dems will jump backwards through their own assholes to agree.

[WillyT]

9. Maybe We Should Pronounce It... "Cah - Vey"...

Sounds French, no ???

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[Individualist]

14. Hear, hear!

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. It's gonna be

1. Two year extension of all brackets
2. UI benefits extended through Q3 2011
3. Making Work Pay extension through 2011.
4. Agreements to go to floor vote on Defense Authorization, DREAM Act, START, and spending bill before January 1.
5. Agreement on held up judiciary nominees.

[the redcoat]

7. Number 2 is bullshit, it should have happened either way.

The fact that they're using it as a bargaining chip now should make it painfully obvious that this whole thing was planned out long ago.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. They almost killed the LAST extension

Why wouldn't they use it as a bargaining chip?

[Orrex]

8. I fear that we'll see another instance of pre-emptive bargaining

That is, the administration will give in re: the tax cuts for the rich, with some tepid request that the GOP vote to extend unemployment benefits at some future point.

And, predictably, the GOP will happily take that concession and will thereafter continue to do everything in its power to block the unemployment extension, denouncing it as fiscally irresponsible, etc.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. I don't think so

If there is a full extension on all the tax brackets, there will be floor votes on UI benefits extension before XMas.

[Orrex]

29. I hope that would be the case

But given recent precedent, I'm not very confident.

[spartan61]

10. Although I want to see the tax cuts for the rich expire,

I have to agree with your post since it looks like we will be losing again.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WillyT]

15. That's Correct... I Don't Like Giving In To Republican Demands... You ???

And apparently... I'm not alone: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9684161

:shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

16. UC maybe START maybe.

But having given away their only bargaining chip, the lame duck session has nothing left. So I expect nothing.

[Skip Intro]

17. Bush tax cuts will be extended, probably for three years, and unemployment extensions for one year.

My best guess.

I was just reading that Obama said he'd veto any tax extension bill that did not include an unemployment extension as well. I'm glad to hear at least that he is threatening a veto over unemployment extensions.

[littlewolf]

22. I think (crystal ball here)

that Tax cuts for 2 years ...

unemployment for 1 year ...

and nada on underwater states ...

my best guess ...

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. Tie both to less than 5% unemployment.

No tax cut until then, and no ending UE benefits until that number is reached. Maybe then, all that money we hear about "on the sidelines" will get busy really creating some jobs.

Other than that (as Nancy Reagan said), "just say no". I hate to see anybody cut off, but maybe when enough teabaggers lose their UE too, they might start exerting enough pressure for this logjam to end. It's a shot in the dark, but letting the tax cuts on the rich go though, is suicide.

I'll bet we wouldn't even get a whole year of UE extension out of it anyway. A line has to be drawn on the Rethugs and the sooner the better, or they'll do even more harm if it's drawn after the lame duck. Or never, more likely. They'll steamroller anything they want for the next two years.

[Imajika]

19. I don't understand your comments in number 3

"3) Buy off the debts of the various states around the country that are underwater. This, until recently, had been a traditional role of the Federal Government, and since the Fed apparently prints money in the Trillions for foreign banks and other entities... they can certainly pull the states out of their current financial messes, and get the states to fully fund medical, educational, and various other much needed services."

When has this been the "traditional role of the Federal Government"?

Aid to the states is not the norm at all. The President fought very hard to include help for the states in the stimulus bill and some follow up state aid bills designed mostly to prevent teacher layoffs. This is not a traditional role of the Federal Government at all.

The Republicans will never, ever agree to number 3 and I think it is absolutely certain continued state aid is NOT even on the table.

Now that the GOP has won the House, state aid is over. Republicans consider it a "union bailout" since it is mostly used to prevent public sector employees (teachers) from being fired.

I think there will be a 2 year Bush tax cut extension. In exchange the President will get a 6 month-1 year UI extension and all of his own tax cuts extended for 2 more years (making works pay and business tax credits). The Republicans are fine waiting to the last minute because they want to run the clock out on the lame duck, and as long as all 42 GOP Senators block everything until tax cuts are dealt with, it is in their interest to draw out the negotiations for as long as possible.

[WillyT]

21. Something Krugman Said In An Interview On Stimulus Many Months Back...

:shrug:

Plus... if California is the 6th or 7th largest economy on the planet... as is often stated...

Then letting it crash might bring down the other 49 states. It behooves the Feds to make sure that does not happen.

:shrug:

[Imajika]

25. State aid is definitely not the tradional role of the Federal Government...

The Obama administration and congressional Democrats have fought very hard for state aid to avoid massive public sector layoffs. State aid is stimulative and is a good idea that should continue, but it won't.

"Plus... if California is the 6th or 7th largest economy on the planet... as is often stated... Then letting it crash might bring down the other 49 states. It behooves the Feds to make sure that does not happen."

As state aid is not a traditional role of the Federal Government, it is a controversial policy in that Republicans vehemently appose it. We've only been able to get that state aid through because we've had massive majorities in the House and Senate. Republicans see state aid as a public sector union bailout and will never let another dime through so long as the control the House.

The Republican response to California will be "drop dead". The WANT to see the state of California fire thousands of public workers. They will argue it is unfair for other states to bail out irresponsible states.

[WillyT]

26. Ok... And If The Republicans WANT Their Tax Cuts Extended, They Need To Play Ball...

Look... I hear what you're saying, all I was proposing was a scenario where I might be able to actually swallow the rich getting their tax cuts extended.

And while my scenario is highly unlikely... at least WE GET SOMETHING from the deal.

I am NOT holding my breath.

:shrug:

[WillyT]

28. And BTW...

Link: http://www.google.com/#q=history+of+federal+government+providing+aid+to+states&hl=en&sa=G&biw=1024&bih=679&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=3Or7TPy_GIO0sAOX6fn2DQ&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CF8Q5wIwCg&fp=21040c353388f260

:shrug:

[Lint Head]

20. It doesn't smell it stinks.

[glitch]

23. Cut the bullshit about Social Security adding to the deficit

and rather than cutting it add to it. Raise the cap, reduce the retirement age.
And while we're dreaming of democratic policies, bring back single payer, reduce the military/police state by stopping the so-called war on drugs/terror.
And support rather than sabotage public education and the environment.

Stop the assault on the commons.

[obxhead]

24. Repeal the HCR and replace it with single payer.

Otherwise no deal will be acceptable for tax cuts for the rich.

[B Calm]

27. The republicans are NO GOOD, and nothing of any good will

come by making any kind of deals with these bastards!

[SheilaT]

31. What do you mean we?

I'm certainly not caving in. I want only the tax cuts for the middle class extended. Keep in mind, that EVERYONE gets a break on the first $250,000 of income. If you make more than that, you can pay a little more.

[WillyT]

32. I Meant The Leaders Of My Political Party... Such As They Are...

Many here, including myself, think the fix is in.

:shrug:

[donco6]

33. Sadly, none of those will even come up as options.

It's not like we actually GET anything out of these "compromises." It's all just a two-for-one sale. Our "compromise" will be something like, Tax cuts extended indefinitely (they'll set some arbitrary date to reconsider, but it won't require a vote to extend them further), and in return we get SS age raised to only 69.5 yrs. Hooray! We win!

[RedCloud]

34. Esentially the trade is 700 billion for 30 billion? Do you make that trade?

You know those jackoffs will keep using the unemployment extensions to pass all their bs.

[Mira]

35. Which kind of NO needs elaboration? n/t