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Storm the Bastille, dump the tea into the harbor, and declare our independence from bullshit.

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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 03:35 PM
Original message
Storm the Bastille, dump the tea into the harbor, and declare our independence from bullshit.
Edited on Sun Dec-05-10 03:37 PM by originalpckelly
I'm so sick of living in the LIE NATION(TM). Lie us into a war. Lie about torture. Lie about prosecuting torture. Lie about what you can do in office. Lie about what you're doing in office.

If I hear another lie, I will cry. So please, if you're full of crap, don't post in this thread.

You know what I want? I want a truth in government revolution. I don't need to know every little detail about our leaders, people should have personal privacy after all. BUT I should know about the policies of my country, that way I can vote on them by voting on the leaders who create those policies.

secret policies = secret government = tyranny

We can groan and moan about individual politicians, but the truth is that they are bound by a fucked up system. That system needs to fall. A new one needs to be erected in its place.

(He said erected, hahahahaha.)

But seriously. Come on already. Are you people sick of this shit of nothing ever getting done? Don't you want to be the lead nation of the world? It's not going to be that way for long, just look at China.

What we need is a system that cuts through the bullshit and gets to the point.

We need to protect people, the environment, and freedom, but we need to do it in a productive way.

I bet you ten bucks that if policy was formed in the open, we'd get things done faster. If there wasn't all this blackmail and political posturing going on, I bet we could get things done.

Do what works to get things done, as long as the means are just.

Have we really come to a point in our history where we simply cannot get things done? If that's true, doesn't that show innately dysfunctional nature of this system?

How long are we willing to hobble on without fixing it?

What are we capable of doing to change things?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, if you ask me, I think its time for us lefties to move to a SOCIALIST party
Problem is there are many, and all of them are useless

So time to build a new Socialist party

The American Socialist party, something very akin to the Labor and Socialist parties across the pond
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Rec this post, nt
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Once again, I share my offering in this regard:
Edited on Sun Dec-05-10 03:53 PM by OneGrassRoot
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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. If we dump tea into the Gulf will it soak up the oil?
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wish someone could show me a scenario for turning this rapid decay into tyranny around.
I dont think it is possible. We are in the last throes of American Democracy. Capitalism is crushing us. The new world order will be international with China in a leadership role. The US government has the strongest military in the world, but slowly and deliberately China is buy our country out from under us. They have tremendous influence in the US government and before long may have control of our military.

Some think we can default on our debt to China. Foolish thinking. China has been using that debt to buy up "American" companies and property."

Please give me a scenario where we can turn this around.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Okay, I stormed the tea, what was the second part again?
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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You forgot the pitchforks... er, wait.....
...that might have been a different rant...
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. What makes you think people want the truth?
The best example would be:
The American public is trying on a dress and asking the politicians if it makes them look fat. The American public is fat, so it looks fat. If you tell them they are fat, they will not vote for you.

I want the truth. We won't know what to change if we can't admit what is wrong.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Actually I think it IS more transparent now, perhaps you are just sickened by what you're seeing -
I know I am.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. The 'Bastille' is around the corner from you, at your local precinct or county elections office
The trouble with your rant is, "Where is the Bastille, here in this big country?" You have to be more specific, in a country this big and this diverse and with SO MANY overt and covert methods of control.

Diverse & big, yes, with multiple problems, yes, but we have one thing in common: ALL of our voting machines, in every state, are now run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled largely (80%) by one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation, ES&S (which just bought out Diebold, aka Premier), with virtually no audit/recount controls.

What's wrong with this picture? Do you know HOW OUTRAGEOUS AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC this is? They have now removed the bottom line--the BOTTOM LINE--of democracy: the counting of our votes in the PUBLIC VENUE.

As with the Bastille--a dungeon-like prison of the 'Ancien Regime'--the voting machines are not our only problem. But they are actually worse than that prison because the control is pervasive, secret and invisible. 'TRADE SECRET' code! Can you believe it?

Back in '06, when FLA-13 was flipped by an ES&S machine, the Dem took it to court and asked to review ES&S's source code, to find out what happened to the 18,000 Dem votes that went missing. ES&S refused and argued that its 'right' to profit from our elections trumps the right of the voters to know how their votes were tabulated! In a democracy, ES&S would have been laughed out of court. But no, the judge ruled in ES&S's favor. But here's the real kicker. The Dem candidate took the matter to the new Dem Congress--the ultimate arbiter of elections--where it was quickly buried and never heard from again.

How's that for a kick in the nuts? Our own party leaders--all of whom voted for and supported non-transparent, unverifiable, corporate-run, 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting and STILL support it.

So, one, you gotta figure that 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting is VERY, VERY, VERY important to "the powers that be" whichever party they claim to belong to. There is plenty of other evidence that it is--for instance, the Anthrax Congress passed the e-voting boondoggle in the same month as the Iraq War Resolution, and another for instance, the corpo-fascist media's COMPLETE black-holing of this theft of democracy--'TRADE SECRET' vote counting. And two, we gotta start SOMEWHERE, to unpeel the layers of control, and the 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines and central tabulators are, basically, the final nail in that system. Pull that one out and the rotten structure will start to unravel, and other nails will start to become removable.

Corporations have NO PLACE between us and our vote count. They have NO RIGHT to be there. We've got to remove them.

It is also a DOABLE citizen campaign. Control over voting systems still resides at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have some potential influence. As I said, your county registrar may live right down the street from you. Most Americans don't live that far from their state capitol. The e-voting coup was not accomplished by a federal requirement of e-voting but rather by corruption. There is NO federal saw requiring it. We can return to old-fashioned paper ballot vote counting or an OPEN SOURCE code system, without needing an act of Congress, if we can get enough people in local jurisdictions to face down our corrupt local officials.

Don't lament. Don't rant. Or do, if you need to. But get beyond that to think in practical, strategic terms. Where does our power reside, and what is the state of that mechanism of power?

Voting is very nearly the definition of our sovereignty as a People. By voting, we transfer some of our power temporarily to individual leaders, who exercise it on our behalf. That very mechanism has been taken over not just by private entities but mostly by ONE very evil private entity.

I won't go into what I think the consequences of this have been already, over the last three elections (including Dem victories). You can read about that if you want to, here

"Restoring democracy in the United States"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x573647
It also appeared here, with many comments
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x302923#303036

But if your complaint is that none of our leaders seem accountable to us any more, then you don't need to know how they have been suborned--we can only guess at it, anyway--because the situation with 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting is that subversion and control of our leaders is INHERENT. It has been INSTALLED in our system with money AND now with 'TRADE SECRET' code. And the 'TRADE SECRET' code is the one we can get at--with a lot of effort, to be sure, and requiring widespread citizen participation, but it CAN be done.

Black Americans did it, with their basic right to vote back in the 1960s. That was VERY difficult and was conducted exactly as this campaign should be--and needs to be--at the precinct, county and state level, with peaceful group confrontations of the white power establishment right at the precinct or registrar's office. They ultimately got a federal law, which we could also get, once we get rid of the corporate voting machines.

And Latin Americans have accomplished something similar in their countries--honest, transparent elections--resulting in a HUGE change for the better in Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Paraguay and other L/A counties. They had even worse starting conditions than we do. The key to--and first lesson of--their democracy revolution has been transparent vote counting. Many of these countries have horrible media, but they keep electing Leftists, time and again. The vote count is reliable and verified. They get out the vote.

Don't think generalized revolution. Think specific targets, that, in current circumstances, are doable without the violent corporate state coming down upon our heads. Protests with a specific point--a big one--a righteous point, that many will approve of--and that, if successful, will materially alter the power structure. You are right in that respect--mentioning the Bastille. But the "Bastille" was only a symbol by the time they stormed it. Invading that prison didn't, in itself, change anything. The French revolutionists also didn't have much experience and tradition for establishing a democratic system and they ultimately faltered because of that. We do have that experience and tradition. We know what the elements are. We know--if we think about it--that our right to vote is key. It is a must do, to retrieve it from corporate control. Or it isn't democracy.





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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Great post. Thanks. n/t
-Laelth
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Here's the Bastille
Edited on Mon Dec-06-10 11:20 AM by guitar man
right here :grr:

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. LOL! So true, but try to "storm" Wall Street and see how far you get!
And, with computers, they can go right on doing what they're doing, somewhere else. You could put a million protestors on Wall Street and shut it down, and it wouldn't change a thing--except to get a lot of heads bashed.

That's what I mean by thinking strategically. How about a thousand little actions instead, with hundreds of people "storming" county registrars' offices all over the land, merely to politely ask to see their votes counted in the PUBLIC VENUE? And if these voters believe that they have a right to be there until they get that promise, and won't be moved, that's up to them. Doesn't even have to include "civil disobedience" (refusal to move out of your own county elections office), just has to be big enough and widespread enough to get the balling rolling. Once people get the idea ignited in their hearts that corporations have NO PLACE between voters and the counting of our votes, and that their obstruction of our view of that important act is harming our country, it will become less and less possible for election officials to defend their very bad decisions, and the corporate lid will start to unpeel, everywhere.

It's just such a great SYMBOL--'TRADE SECRET' voting machines--on top of the vote being the very mechanism of our actual power as a People.

The system can absorb and deflect even the biggest of protests--as we've seen often enough, to our despair--but littler protests, on a widespread basis, focused on our very mechanism of power, and dealing with particular local officials, whom in many cases we could potentially pressure out of office, and needing only a local mobilization, and minimal resources, is both more doable and more likely to succeed.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm not advocating violence
I'm always in favor of another way, but if enough people get hungryand miserable enough just so those pigs can keep stuffing themselves, "storming the Bastille " could take on a more literal meaning. I would not shed a tear for those greedy bastards in that case.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-10 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. good luck with that- n/t
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thought the 'baggers had that under control.
I mean, after all, we outsourced outrage and action to them. Right?
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