Is there anyone in DU who still believes in the President? When I post in support of him, I get

[mfcorey1]

responses of threats of putting me on ignore and accusations that I don't want anyone to criticize him. That is so far from the truth. Being a life long Democrat, I will always lean far to the left. Yes, I want the President to stand before us and tell us why he feels the need to compromise with the Republic Party. I want him to stand before us, his base, and tell us why he has not interceded in DADT. I want him to stand before us and tell us why he accepted their assertion that he has not reached across the aisle. In the midst of all that, I still search for some where that can help me mantain my pride in being a democrat. I have always bragged about DU to my friends because I tell them that there are some diehard Democrats on that site. Now, sometimes, I cannot tell the difference between some of the posters and FOx news. Throw anything out there and see what sticks. It's almost like Dick ARmey's troops have learned how to infiltrate another Democratic stronghold. Has his Armey penetrated our bunkers? And now that we get closer and closer to January, and the takeover by the real communist in the country (the Republic Party) the echoes of discord are louder. Go ahead and flame away!!!!!!

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Subdivisions]

2. I used to believe in him. I don't hate him. But I no longer believe in him. n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. Hater!

[hlthe2b]

3. I believe in him, but I am frustrated; I have NOT given up on him

I hate the dichotomy that some here try to make--the "you are either with him or against him" kind of mentality. Despite previous posts that have termed those who question or criticize to any extent as "Obama bashers" or "haters" I firmly believe there is little of that going on for most of us. Conversely, I think most who feel the need to defend Obama are not "sycophantic" in their viewpoints, but are simply trying to seek a balanced appraisal (and to emphasize the risks inherent in pulling our support away.

And, yes, like you, I just want some answers.

[pnwmom]

5. I don't think people who criticize him are haters.

I think haters are haters. Surely you can see the difference, too? Some people really seem to loathe him on a personal level.

[hlthe2b]

10. Well, I was excoriated on an earlier thread for trying to make that

distinction. Seems, just pointing out that questioning and similar type criticism does not equate to "hating" Obama--was enough to earn me the same label. Infuriating.

[pnwmom]

6. self-delete (dupe)

[sohndrsmith]

4. I do... but I have to admit it's getting increasingly confusing.

...even if I weren't supportive, I wouldn't be blind to the question: Would I have preferred the alternative (past) or want the alternative (future). He knows more about stuff than I do, and he knows more about what's going on than any of us do.

I don't really understand what's going on right now, because it doesn't seem to make sense to me. But I'm still in on the team... : )

[TexasObserver]

7. You accuse his critics of being from Fox News or GOPers who infiltrated.

THAT is the reason you receive hostile comments - because you make them yourself and invite them.

Try treating with respect those who don't share your point of view, and maybe they won't threaten to put you ignore.

[mfcorey1]

8. Again, a total misread of what I posted. However, the conversation of views is good. Peace.

[TexasObserver]

9. No, it isn't. I took it FROM your OP. It's right there. Read it.

And stop denying you have. It's right there in your post.

I read it in your OP and that's why I used those words - because you said it.


When you can learn to accept that others don't agree with you, and you can avoid attacking them as infiltrators for the GOP or Fox News, others might be more genteel in their responses to you. Your post began with your complaint that others have threatened to put you on ignore, then you proceeded to make a broad brush attack on those who disagree with you, implying they are part of a GOP led infestation.

It's the vast majority here who disagree with you. They're not out of place.

[mfcorey1]

12. No, the vast majority don't disagree with me. The word, some, indicates that there are those who do

So, some do make me wonder. It is okay that some others disagree and threaten ignore. I won't crumble. However, I do have the right to collect my thoughts on how I see it. Anyway, I would like the focus to be more on the democratic views that are powerful and must be sustained. Peace. No need for anger.

[MiniMe]

11. I agree. I don't agree with everything he has done

But he has done a lot of good things too. I really wish that Obama would call out the repugs on some of the shit, like the tax cuts for the top 2%, and holding bills hostage to the tax cuts.

[democracy1st]

13. Some people feel the need to save the democratic party more than his presidency!

[Skittles]

14. BINGO!!!

[BzaDem]

15. But that assumes the Democratic party is somehow in danger.

Certainly most members of the party don't think so, and membership is not that low comparatively. In fact, the liberal members of the party generally poll MOST supportive of Obama -- its the moderates and conservatives who are less supportive.

Both parties always have and always will have dissatisfied people. That is not abnormal or unusual. The question is how do we compare to the past, and the answer to that is that Obama is the most popular Democratic president among Democrats in 50 years.

[patrice]

49. So the question is how to prevent our pre-conceived notions about how to do that from causing

failure. Pre-conceived, and hence very likely ir-relevant, assumptions are not limited to one or the other side, pro- or con- Obama.

I suggest we turn our attention more toward ISSUES and, thus, free ourselves from labels, especially those associated with this particular fight.

[Individualist]

59. Absolutely!

[emilyg]

64. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[AndrewP]

68. +1

[JDPriestly]

16. I like Obama as a person. I like him very much.

And his family is just delightful.

But he is not a strong leader, and we need a strong leader.

[elocs]

17. Any 'one' in DU? You count as 'one', but I bet there are a few others.

Say what you have to say and believe in it, but leave off the "Go ahead and flame away!!!!!!" at the end because it makes what you say seem weak.

[mfcorey1]

19. Noted.

[Hawkowl]

18. -1

Sorry. I don't support "leaders" who don't lead. I can't be supportive if none is reciprocated. But, I can speak the truth even though it is demanded that I believe lies.

[peace frog]

21. Well said

thank you.

[boston bean]

20. "I cannot tell the difference between some of the posters and FOx news"

Really, you can't tell the difference?

Fox News wants to eliminate the tax cuts for the rich?

Fox News wants to end DADT?

Fox News wants Single Payer?

Fox News wants to end the Wars?

Fox News believes in a womans right to choose?

Fox News wants the President to close Gitmo?

Fox News want to push Obama to do all of the above things?

WOW, maybe I should start watching and supporting Fox News.

[democracy1st]

23. +1

[Poboy]

33. great reply bbean. -nt

[Uben]

22. He's got my support

People are quick to criticize when they don't know shit about what's really going on behind the scenes. All they want to do is bitch and moan, and I guess that's okay with me if it makes them feel better, but bitchin and moanin don't get a damned thing done.
IF you're really that upset, get a fucking sign and get in the street. You're not going to change one mind here.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

56. good point.. "get a fucking sign and get in the street"

[quaker bill]

24. He needs to be a bit bolder

but I am still in his camp. I did not expect the right to be quite so unified in irrational behavior. I expected they would fragment more after the 2008 defeat, allowing a bit more to get done. Given they have been a unified and dedicated force committed to block everything they could with enough votes to stall things, I think what has been accomplished deserves high marks.

It has been a PR challenge to have to constantly explain why having the majority has not been enough. Having a House in the hands of the opposition that is constantly tossing a monkey wrench in the works will explain itself. If he steps up to it, having a Speaker Boehner for a foil to play off against should bring out the best in the President.

[get the red out]

25. I believe in the President

But I no longer believe in this country. I don't think we can call ourselves a democracy with all the corporate money in national elections. No way to fight that on behalf of the people. He compromises, which is all he can do, and we are upset, he doesn't and he gets no where because of the total corporate control of the media and everything in this country. We are just screwed but it isn't the President's fault. The Republicans are fighting the fact that demographics are more and more against them so taking control of most US Churches through "social" issues and buying elections while leaving the thin impression of democracy is what they have to do to maintain power.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

48. I second your post

I don't think it's Obama's problem. I think it's the country's problem. Let's be brutally honest... most people couldn't care less about politics, hence the abysmally low voter turnouts. Those who do vote are not left-leaning; they are older, wealthier and whiter. They don't give a rat's ass about anything but themselves.

Most people are more worried about the latest celebrity hoopla than anything remotely involved with their own livelihoods.

And, more importantly, in my opinion the U.S. is not a progressive country at all; its people are mostly conservative, especially when compared to pretty much every other industrialized nation.

Let's also not forget the horrible job the media are doing in constantly barraging whatever Obama has done or will try to accomplish. Sadly, there have been posts here on DU where Obama has been accused of being mentally ill, a closet republican or worse. Constructive and healthy criticism is a great thing, but disparaging a man who, I believe, is working in the interest of everyone in the U.S. while fighting off incredible odds stacked against him is counterproductive.

[muffin1]

26. Two years ago

one would have been hard-pressed to find an bigger Obama supporter than me. Beside volunteering for his campaign, I walked around town like a fool with Obama buttons on my clothes, and talked about him non-stop with everyone who would listen.

Now? I do not support him nor do I like him 'as a person' anymore. He has been a MAJOR disappointment on most issues, and his stance on equal rights is deplorable.

Do I share Dick Armey's or Fox's opinions? Of course not. To equate anger from Liberals to the racist hate speech coming from the right is ridiculous.

[madokie]

27. yes I do

[Dappleganger]

28. Post and run!

[HipChick]

29. The hafefest is part of the divide and conquer meme

Running rampant

[patrice]

55. Yes! And both sides of it are getting played for that effect. Figuring out who's legit and

offering analysis that is constructive on our issues, has to begin with recognition of that fact: there are people playing the Divide & Conquer strategy on BOTH sides of this (or any actually) fight.

Once DU members recognize that fact, the next step is how to differentiate the Divide & Conquer folks from valid & constructive efforts.

Then people need to think, as a DU member in a thread, what is an appropriate response to other posts depending upon how you discern their purpose. But I suppose that depends upon what group you fall in yourself, i.e. what your own purpose is.

So, that brings up the question as to what general classes of Purpose do we see here on DU, so users can make analytic decisions about what they are reading and Reply appropriately. This means that it is likely that a very good starting point with almost any post is a question.

[TBF]

30. There is so much "wrong" with your post that I don't know where to start.

FOX news and the republicans (not to mention Obama) are not communists. That is quite an insult to those of us who would actually like to see workers have a say in something for once. You know I don't see anyone attacking Obama personally, what they are realizing (or admitting after suspecting for awhile) is that it doesn't matter who is in office. Either way working people are getting screwed. I'm glad people are finally looking at this objectively and hope that some solidarity may set in. We are going to need it. Whether you're wearing a red or blue shirt doesn't really matter when your house is being foreclosed and you're standing in line for unemployment.

[mfcorey1]

34. Noted. Have done the foreclosure thing.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mstinamotorcity]

32. They respond in that salty way

mostly because they put their hopes into a vote. When we vote or should I say when most people voted in 2008,they wanted CHANGE. They got it in the White House. But not in the steps it takes to get legislation to the White House. There are a lot of obstacles in our Presidents way to having equality legislation put on his desk to sign into law.

We have also let the Republicans set the tone how everything goes.The repugs have covered their bases wide with ignorant self absorbed fools of broadcasting. They advertise their message all over the place not only Faux News.And yes there has been some infiltration on this site. No big deal.There are some Dems on this site who are new Dems and still haven't caught up, and are still being what I call de-programmed!!lol And for some the reality is just too much to digest and the old ways of thinking are easy to go back to and they are more comfortable with it because its familiar.

The biggest problem is us!!If we want CHANGE then it must start with us. We cannot vote CHANGE and still behave in the same manner. As long as we don't CHANGE us, it won't matter what President we vote in office!!!

[mfcorey1]

35. Thank you!

[mstinamotorcity]

39. You are welcome

DU is still the sight for strong Dems they just have to tap into that unknown power resource for it to come out.

[tanyev]

36. Aye.

[lunatica]

37. I will still vote for him over any Republican

but for a couple of decades now I've believed that the power in this country just gets passed back and forth between the really nasty Republican party who always messes our lives up to the more benign Democratic power that only restores some of the damage. The net result is we're always in flux, but never really improve.

But the Bush years really veered to the extreme right with their zig and the Democrats didn't zag far enough to the left. So now our new normal is to the right of the middle. the next Republican President will make sure to ruin the country completely, leaving the next Democratic President unable to fix anything, no matter how temporary it would be.

It's like taking two steps to the right and only one step to the left over and over again.

[oldlib]

38. I don't believe!

I am disappointed in President Obama. His caving to republican demands shows weak leadership and I believe that the Democratic Party should run a strong Democrat against him in the 2012 primaries. I won't vote for a republican.

[budkin]

40. This is just about the last straw for me... it makes me sad and angry

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. I believe in the President 100%

:thumbsup:

[Bluerthanblue]

43. yes I still support the President, and hear

what you are saying.

I expect you are going to be deluged with negative and sarcastic responses even though your OP is asking if there are others who feel as you do out here.

I share your disappointment about the way discussions on DU have deteriorated. I encourage you to alert on those which are over the top. I haven't given up on DU yet. But it's getting very difficult to come here and not feel completely discouraged-

DU has been an incredible support, haven, and 'family' to me for many years. I haven't been able to leave it behind just yet.

thanks for posting.

:grouphug:

[JuniperLea]

61. +1

:hug:

[CRK7376]

44. I'm still thrilled he's

my President! And he's in my hometown today. Unfortunately it's a closed session at the Community College, but he's still here in town.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Obama is not the Democratic Party, nor does he represent all Democrats.

Nor are we Democrats obliged to support him.

[Winterblues]

46. What is a Die Hard Democrat these days?

What do you stand for? What are the basic principles of the Democratic Party and how are the current crop of elected Democrats working toward those goals? How is Obama working toward those goals? IMO a good Democrat does not spend years telling the country how bad Republican policies are and then buckle under to the Republicans on those same policies when he doesn't have to. This is a winning issue for the Democrats but Obama has chosen not to even try..

[Jeffersons Ghost]

47. This OP has so many unrecs. that I can't recommend it. but I can kick it up

[whatchamacallit]

50. I'm over him. NEXT! (nt)

[Steely_Dan]

51. I Think That We Need...

to remind ourselves on why there is such a backlash against Obama here. It's called betrayal. Whether it is true or not, this is how many here feel. Betrayal for many is unforgivable.

People on this site tend to be more passionate about their views than the "typical" voter. This makes betrayal even more of an insult. Once again...whether he betrayed us or not is not the point...the point is that many feel that he has and they are pissed.

-P

[patrice]

52. Free yourselves from labels. Most dichotomies are false. The world isn't like that. Concentrate on

Issues, and what's happening to real world people, instead.

Do not disempower what you can think and what you can do by thinking of yourself as being for or against Obama. Be honest about everything that's going on, but don't cripple yourself and require that everyone else cripple themselves with pre-conceived notions about the situation or about the future.

[Cal Carpenter]

53. 'Believes' in him? Like Santa or the Easter Bunny?

Is this politics or religion?

It ain't about 'belief' let alone your pride (!?). It is about looking at real conditions, real life. Looking at the measurable results of actual policy (as opposed listening to rhetoric). And those things aren't looking good for 95% of the US and probably 95% of the world thanks to our economic policies, wars and occupations, and so forth - policies that are perpetuated to some degree regardless of which party is in power. The course never changes - it moves in one direction at varying speeds with different facades.

It is also about so much more than Obama. It's about party politics as a whole and the nature of our so-called 'democracy'. The way I see it it's becoming clearer every day that the types of changes most people at DU claim to want and need will not and cannot be accomplished by either party, as it stands. People are struggling, frustrated and pissed. Wanting to 'believe' in some politician or party just makes it worse because it will never get us anywhere.

False hope = hopelessness

[treestar]

54. ...

Yes, I want the President to stand before us and tell us why he feels the need to compromise with the Republic Party.

either that or get nothing done. You will really stand behind getting nothing done? Our system requires it. Until we have 60 solid Senators or the rules are changed. And the Senate has to change the rules. No President has power to do that.

Not to mention that even 60 Democrats would not be solid. We are just not as homogenous as the Republicans are.

I want him to stand before us, his base, and tell us why he has not interceded in DADT.

The Senate has to vote on it. It's up to them. It would be so nice of Presidents were dictators. But in spite of Bush wishing it, they are not.

I want him to stand before us and tell us why he accepted their assertion that he has not reached across the aisle.

Maybe getting into a left wing bubble is not a good idea. maybe the President has been tough with the Republicans after all. Just accepting what is on DU is to limit oneself.

DU is in fact, either intentionally or as dupes, helping the republican party (a little bit, as DU probably does not have much influence).

[Xenotime]

57. I do. I wish Rahm was still around to give him good advice.

[Raschel]

58. I support President Obama.

I don't like the constant media propaganda of how unpopular he is, how he's failing, etc.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

62. Aren't summary statements about almost anyone, & implying perfect knowledge of the future, beliefs?

[Tsiyu]

63. I support him

Am i upset at some of his decisions? Yep.

Last night had a very intense discussions with two of his most ardent supporters. And I had to agree with a lot of what they said.

1) We don't elect saviors or kings, we elect politicians. Yes, we all had hope that he could rush in and undo the damage done by Bushco. But in two years? What kind of miracles are we awaiting? This is politics, not Harry Potter.

2) Congress is the problem. Those fuckers are so disconnected from the American people, they are like a bunch of spoiled rich kids. They have made it impossible for Obama to govern through change.

3) The media are out to get any Dem presidents and smear them good. People always buy into it. Always.


Now, I disagreed with them that racism is the root of criticism against him.

As I said to my friends, the people who want an end to DADT and the wars and the war on drugs are not racists. They want their issues to be taken seriously since they put the man in office. The color of his skin has nothing to do with their despair.


I also said I disagree with many of his appointments, but they feel he has had to play the Big Bipartisan Man or the Repukes would accuse him of "railroading a liberal agenda through." I waver on that opinion, but I noted their assessment of the logic there.

Imagine the Supreme Court nominees under another Repuke? Imagine how much worse it could be. And it could be far worse. Obama has done a lot of things right, or at least the best he could do under the circumstances.

I've seen Carter and Clinton destroyed by the media, and Obama is in the middle of that evisceration.

But I'd much rather have him in office than the alternatives.

Hope and change is delayed and held hostage, but blaming Obama for all of it IS unrealistic and childish.

[DevonRex]

65. ...

Almost all have left DU.

[a kennedy]

66. I believe and d*mn it......proud of it too.

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[Pisces]

67. Count me as a believer. This board is infiltrated to try and dishearten the base. Ignore it.