WikiLeaks founder threatens to release entire cache of unfiltered files

[CHIMO]

Source: Globe and Mail

At the centre of a tightening web of death threats, sex-crime accusations and high-level demands for a treason trial, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange threatened to unleash a “thermonuclear device” of completely unexpurgated government files if he is forced to appear before authorities.

Mr. Assange, the 39-year-old Australian Internet activist whose online document-leaking service has embarrassed the United States and other countries by publishing hundreds of thousands of secret diplomatic and military documents, has referred to the huge, unfiltered document as his “insurance policy.”

The 1.3-gigabyte file, distributed through file-sharing services this summer and protected with an unbreakable 256-bit encryption key, contains full versions of all the U.S. documents received by WikiLeaks to date – including those that have been withheld from publication or have had names and details removed in order to protect the lives of spies, sources and soldiers.

Silent for the better part of a week as WikiLeaks made daily headlines around the globe, Mr. Assange has been increasingly vocal in recent days, defending his actions, decrying his critics and defying world leaders.



Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/wikileaks-founder-threatens-to-release-entire-cache-of-unfiltered-files/article1825922/

[TwilightGardener]

1. So...he's got hostages, of sorts?

[Mark D.]

79. Seems Like It

I get his use of this to maintain his freedom. I don't want to see people's lives put at risk by such action. Regardless of arrest, what he NEEDS to put out is the info he has on the Bank he's alluded to, or banks. Many are guessing it's the # 2 US banking monstrosity, Bank of America. I'd happily see them crumble for it. But I sure would like to see him whip out some extra info on the other major banks involved in the recent bank heist (the manufactured collapse of the economy for their own profit). Let the banks have it Julian. They deserve no mercy. Get it out there before THEY GET YOU. Because if there is one group after him the most, it is them. Even the Military Industrial Complex isn't as worried. What will other's do? They have weapons. Banks do not. They have credit and a Wall Street casino they'd robbed us with. But not weapons. TAKE THEM DOWN. But DO NOT harm innocent people for your own protection.

[yurbud]

198. it's more like the rich in America are holding our democracy hostage by buying or

threatening all of our politicians in one party and most in the other into doing their bidding.

[TwilightGardener]

211. That, I agree with.

[marew]

252. Absolutely right! n/t

[caseymoz]

261. No, he's got a gun pointed at governments.

What he does can break a lot of careers.

[Pavulon]

304. Lives. He can end lives.

you people cant quite grasp that. If he dumps names of people who live in china, iran, american prisoners in Iran are confirmed to be CIA. He killed them.

So in return his people will forfeit their lives as well. I would assume he would get to stay around to watch that happen.

[Name removed]

320. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[caseymoz]

334. There's no threat if we're really the good people we think we are.

Furthermore, our people in those countries are not neutral and not innocent! They may be innocent of what's being done directly to Assange and WikiLeaks but they are not innocent in the fact that they are still agents of the shadow government that's doing it. They are simply in a different theater of operations. One they already know is dangerous.

In a war, you shoot back. He and his people aren't terrorists, they're, literally speaking, reporters. Two wrongs might not make a right, but I'm not going to tell anyone being murdered not to fight back, or accuse them of being murderers if they do.

If he goes to Sweden and stands trial, nothing will happen. Even if he's convicted of these charges, I bet this info bomb never goes off.

But if he disappears, is assassinated, or ends up in US custody, as he realistically might . . . that is to say, if we're not the good people we think we are and don't respect international law, then his people might as well declare war. Since Obama has affirmed the US right of simply kidnapping people in other countries and holding them without trial for years, and has ordered assassination I would take being in our custody as being too dangerous for him, especially without a warrant.

If I were an American agent overseas I would take this as a warning and get out now. What would really be disrupted, then, is American foreign policy, and it should be.

[glinda]

340. They have a bunch of guns pointed back at him. Sad. Especially since he is only a small

part of this whole thing really.

[RaleighNCDUer]

276. More like, an insurance policy. nt

[Bobbieo]

2. Under the circumstances. what would you do if you were Assange?

[Pavulon]

7. Disappear...(nt)

[quakerboy]

96. That would seem easier said

than done, no?

[jefferson_dem]

8. Go away.

Far away.

[liberation]

196. Before or after saying "I'm sorry"

Inquiring minds want to know what the official position of the White House is on this, thanks.

[cstanleytech]

117. If I was in his shoes I would probably setup

a similar insurance policy if there was a legit risk of me being taken out by "suicide" or being arrested and sent to a secret prison to be tortured like hes facing.

[JackRiddler]

119. I hope I'd be courageous enough to fight this to the death, if need be.

Few of us have quite that combination of bravery and contrarianism, but even if he may bitterly regret the situation he's put himself in, he really has no choice but to go forward. To go into hiding is actually much more dangerous. There is no hiding. Those who wish to do him harm would want him to try.

[HipChick]

159. Ask for $60M in payment, and disappear..

[Amonester]

235. Some humans cannot be bought and sold.

But there are fewer and fewer of such "Un-Touchables" these days... just when this planet would need more and more of them.

Just sayin'.

[treestar]

171. Face up to the charges

If this is something really heroic, he'll take his lumps and answer for whatever criminal charge applies. MLK went to jail. Now there's a hero. Henry David Thoreau. Not someone whining about the consequences and dodging them.

And there better be something damn good in those files, and an excuse for holding them hostage to help himself.

[ProudDad]

229. What charges?

There's just a phony political accusation from Sweden on the basis of "she says" (and one of the she's is a right-wing plant)...

Other than one Swedish persecutor wanting to "talk to him" there's no charge outstanding on Mr. Assange...

He hasn't done anything illegal...

Assange is a normal, flawed human being who has been placed in a situation the makes his actions heroic -- JUST LIKE MLK and Thoreau and Gandhi...

And for essentially the same motivations...

[Devil_Fish]

259. They can't even charg him with treason, because he is not a US citizen. NT

[Pavulon]

296. what did gerry bull get charged with?

if he dumps names his organization will be facing those same charges.

[caseymoz]

267. What if they take him to that isolated Swedish county

where he's charged and he "disappears?" Or, they'll say, escapes and is never found. He knows about how the US renditions and treats prisoners and how other prisoners had "disappeared." What if he doesn't know the woman, never met her but she has evident CIA ties? Now, if you were in that situation, would you really go and "face the criminal charges?"

What if MLK and Henry David Thoreau thought that if they went to jail, they would likely be killed? Would they have gone to jail? I'm thinking they would have been on the lam for years, and that's what we'd read about in their books. Assange knows more than anybody else how corrupt this system is.

He might have good reason to believe that if he goes into custody he will get no trial. Given how many powerful people have called on him to be killed I can see why. They've already called him a terrorist. Just looking at how the US treated the sovereignty of other European countries, including Britain. It's in the latest file dump.

What if he gets no trial and goes straight to Guantanamo with no charges? The US has declared the rights to do that-- even with Swedish prisoners, and the US will twist Sweden's arm till they do this.

Now, if you were in that position, tell me that you would turn yourself in? Really? Don't tell me that turning himself in is the only right thing to do, given his unique predicament.

[Pavulon]

297. who cares, unless they deal with all his people no purpose is served.

what if someone kills everyone involved an 3.15 gmt this Thursday? He wants to be an intelligence agency fine, but he cant think fucking swedish groupie chicks and collecting money from morons is the the only consequence of his behavior.

[caseymoz]

313. Groupie chicks? You've tried him already.

His accuser turns out to be on the CIA payroll. She's a Free Cuba activist that works for an organization financed by the CIA. This has come out. They sound like complete opposites. How would they have met?

In other words, there's no evidence he fucked any groupie chicks. Those "morons" were giving to his defense fund, which has been frozen, because apparently, he gets no defense.

He didn't want to be an intelligent agency, he and his people wanted to be something we no longer have: a free press.

"His behavior" has told us some of the most important things about our governments and leaders around the world I've ever seen. Stories of its harm appear to be greatly exaggerated, i.e. probably non-existent. So far.

[izzybeans]

212. Release the documents and deal with the consequences.

If I were him, but I'm not, I don't have the documents nor would I try to find them.

If they were lying around, these are matters of state and we own it. Every last citizen deserves the right to know what goes on in their name.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

217. concur

[Pavulon]

298. Guess your name is not on the list. If he gets people killed (say those nice kids hiking in Iran)

he and his people are done. They should expect and will get a post munich response.

He wants to start making bodies, he should expect a response.

[caseymoz]

314. Like the Iranians didn't know the identity of those kids?

Those aren't generally the sorts of people who may be put in danger, and put in danger only if something unjust happens to Assange. Like say, secret summary execution, which shouldn't happen if he's supposed to get a fair trial anyway. So, what is he threatening, really? Nothing, as long as the Swedish justice system operates as its supposed to and the Americans don't assassinate him. And it looks like he's going to turn himself in, so he has said this just to tell our side that.

Nothing bad will happen as long as we're the good people we like to believe we are.

[LanternWaste]

341. Much like the individuals who released the Abu-Ghraib photographs.

"He wants to start making bodies, he should expect a response."

Much like the individuals who released the Abu-Ghraib photographs.

[midnight]

273. Exactly....

[gateley]

3. Am I reading this correctly -- he'd release the key so the names of spies, soldiers, sources

would be available to everyone?

If so, I sure hope it's an empty threat.

[Pavulon]

10. He is putting his friends lives at risk by changing the cost benefit analysis

involved in determining what steps are taken against people conspiring with him. If he is going to kill people by dumping names he will get a lethal response, he might as well kill them himself.

[gateley]

48. That's what makes me think he's bluffing. He's taken a lot of effort to protect

the sources up until now, I sincerely doubt he'd expose those innocent people.

[ProudDad]

231. Right...

and the fucking Empire has no responsibility for this, right???

:eyes:

[caseymoz]

271. Um, what if he already expects a lethal response

And now wants the US to back off? Then he's not bluffing.

His "friends" volunteered for this. They aren't just drinking pals. Maybe they never imagined it would get this far, but its reasonable to say, this possibility was always in the bargain when they joined with him. He wouldn't have entrusted them with the files unless it might have come to this.

I imagine if they dump this, it's possible that authorities will have their hands too full to exact a quick revenge on his friends. And given all the mirror sites and imitators there are now going to be, the floodgates will open.

Also, given the US' treatment of some of its European allies, Assange is going to become quite a popular hero there if he's arrested, especially if he's then killed.

The US can't win by pressing this, but it will press it anyway. We've lost our minds.

[Ruperto31]

115. Why not? They are agents of US imperialism....

...which is murdering and robbing people all over the world.

[pnwmom]

121. This is called extortion. He's slime. n/t

[no limit]

160. Which is why our government must bring up trumped up rape charges against him

we can't have people exposing the truth in the free world, and when they do we need to make them look like rapists!

[treestar]

173. Do you live in Sweden?

And aren't the charges "trumped" up just because he is the latest hero?

Who knows but they are valid.

[no limit]

178. There are trumped up because there is absolutely no evidance and no credability

behind these accusations.

And no, we don't live in Sweden. But as you clearly saw from these leaks the US government applies pressure on other countries to get what they want all the time.

[caseymoz]

277. Who she is came out in the press: she has CIA ties.

The woman who is making the charges is a free-Cuba activist with CIA ties. She sounds like a total opposite to Assange. How did he end up in private with her?

Say he's innocent, and he knows he never met the woman. Then, he has every reason to think that once he's in that isolated county in Sweden "for trial" he will be killed, or worse. The executive branch in our country has given itself authority to do just that.

You're assuming that justice is working in any way like it should here.

[TorchTheWitch]

175. we live in Sweden?

Seeing it's Sweden that is bringing rape charges against him and all.

[no limit]

177. Because clearly as these leaks showed the US government never pressures other governments

just ask Spain and Britain.

[laughingliberal]

185. +1000 nt

[TorchTheWitch]

206. and why would they need to do that?

You believe that if the US wanted him they wouldn't just go get him and no one would know a thing about it? You believe the US would go through all this silliness including having two women have sex with his and conspire with Sweden to trump up false rape charges just to get their hands on him? Please. If the US wanted their hands on him they'd just do it themselves the same way they always do - totally in secret with no one knowing a thing about it.

[tblue37]

221. The whole point of the charges is to discredit him, which would damage him more than just grabbing

him or assassinating him. Besides, those charges look pretty dodgy.

[TorchTheWitch]

321. that's just ridiculous

It's far more logical that Sweden isn't insane and they have good reason for wanting to question him. Nobody wants to grab him or assassinate him. What for? He's just a mouth piece for Wikileaks. With or without him, Wikileaks will just carry on as always. And he nor anyone else with Wikileaks is doing anything differently than any of the other people with the other media outlets that have the docs and are leaking them and no one is calling for their heads much less going through such utterly crazy and drastic measures just to discredit him. People get discredited all the time just having crap written about them in the press - there's isn't ever any NEED to go through all this just to discredit someone. There isn't any POINT in going through all this nonsense to either get hold of him, assassinate him or discredit him.

WHERE is the logic in sending in two women to actually have sex with him and then claim non-rape charges so the US can coerce Sweden into trumping up false rape charges against him and get Britain in on the act to have him extradited, etc., etc., etc... it's completely ABSURD. The far more logical reason is that two random women had sex with him and something occurred that make it possible that he might be guilty of rape. This whole smear defense STARTED with Assange himself, and sorry, but I'm never one to run with an absurdity coming from the biased mouth of the accused. The more he balks at just going and answering questions the more it looks like he has something to hide, and I don't think he's serving himself well at all in digging his heals in to this extent. He should just go answer the damn questions and put the whole thing behind him. The more he digs his heels in on this the more he keeps it hanging over his head and the more it's making him look like he may be guilty. He's digging himself into his own hole with how he's dealing with this.

[tblue37]

He knows the US would like to get its hands on him, and that the US now is willing to

do just about anything to someone they have labeled a "terrorist" or an "enemy combatant." I don't blame him for not wanting the US to get hold of him, He has offered to go in to answer questions; he made the offer before leaving Sweden and actually asked whether he was free to leave Sweden before doing so. He hasn't hidden. GB has always known where he is. He just doesn't trust what is going on, and I can't blame him. Sweden is responding to US pressure.

[tblue37]

327. Dupe.

[no limit]

223. So you are under the belief that the US government can simply go out and kill anyone they want?

I think you watch too many movies.

If Assange suddenly disappeared that would be quite the story that would be impossible to keep hidden.

[provis99]

225. that is exactly what the US government does.

Why do you think Obama put American citizens on an assassination list?

[no limit]

226. People that nobody gave a shit about. How many of those people were actually killed?

[TroglodyteScholar]

272. Wow.

Wow.

[no limit]

328. What's so amazing to you about my post?

[TroglodyteScholar]

338. The fact that you think "nobody gives a shit"...

...about our country attempting to carry out extra-judicial summary executions (to include at least one American citizen).

Wow.

[TorchTheWitch]

243. you seriously have no idea just how nasty the US can be

If Assange suddenly disappeared they wouldn't give a shit what anyone thought. When have they ever?

The bigger issue here is that practically everyone here believes that the US wants to get a hold of him at all. Why? He's just the spokesperson for Wikileaks. If he dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow Wikileaks would still go on, and they KNOW that. All the latest screaming about him by the US is just to discredit him and by extention the entirety of Wikileaks.

You do realize why practically everyone here believes the US wants to get a hold of him, right? Because that's what ASSANGE has been claiming all along and about everything. That's what HE has always claimed about Sweden's charges against him. And of course, because practically everyone here believes he's the Second Coming with a side order or fries that's what they'll run with.

What the US wants is exactly what they're doing now. Hobbling Wikileaks. They want an end to Wikileaks and put a stop to the continued revelation of documents. Getting a hold of Assange doesn't do that.

[caseymoz]

282. What do you think eight years of the Bush administration were about?

And Obama has affirmed the very right of the US government and especially the executive to do just that. Obama has ordered the assassination of an American citizen. If our government declares him a terrorist, and there is a lot of clamoring to do this, they will at least put him in Guantanamo or some hidden prison.

This smear and hate campaign against Assange is going on because they don't want people to be upset when he disappears. If US intelligence and other governments are angry enough at him and arrogant enough, then they might be ready to make him disappear and damn the consequences.

[no limit]

329. How many people on that list were actually killed?

[caseymoz]

337. Unfortunately, that's classified.

If WikiLeaks is around long enough, we might just find out.

[caseymoz]

280. If he weren't a light-skinned Caucasian, yes they'd do it in total secrecy.

Why do you think Wikileaks had him get known across the world beforehand? But they'd still do as you say if his complexion were considered more terrorist-like. As it is, this might upset all of Europe against us and against their governments.

Yes, they would do exactly this, simply because "rape" charges are the ones that would to divide the progressives most about him. Period. And you're falling for it. That's how this was calculated. American intelligence has done exactly things like this before, except generally only in third-world countries.

BTW, the charges are not rape. The charges don't appear to translate well from Swedish. It sounded something like trying to persuade or harass a woman into sex without protection. Honestly, it was that odd.

[Pavulon]

301. Gerry bull was just as white and someone shot him 5 times in the back of the head

in broad daylight.

if he drops names he should just get a gun and shoot all his friends and then himself. Save someone else the work and expense.

[caseymoz]

311. And that shows how cowed you are by your government system.

They might still do that to Assange, but if his complexion were darker, he would have been gone before things reached this stage. That's why he's making the point that there will be consequences for them if they do it. And why should he save anybody else that work and expense? You should love your murderer greater than yourself? Really, if there is a mass killing of people involved in Wikileaks, things will get ugly everywhere for the US, though our shadow government could be made so angry that it doesn't care.

[laughingliberal]

181. Let's assume he is slime. Then it's a case of slime fighting bigger slime.

Where is the moral high ground of a country that went to war to steal the resources of a country in the interest of a few oligarchs?

[Devil_Fish]

260. it's only extortion if you demand money for keeping the secret. NT

[Subdivisions]

136. No one knows what's in the insurance file. So no one can say names of

spies, soldiers, sources would be available to everyone.

I'm hoping it's information about 9/11 nyself.

[valerief]

192. +666 trillion

[ProudDad]

228. No, the USAmerican Empire would trigger the release

if they follow their usual pattern of ignoring international law and morality...

And "take out" Mr. Assange or any of the Wikileaks people or their relatives...

It's in the Empire's control...

It's called a deterrent and what's good for the goose is good for the gander...

[caseymoz]

283. Meanwhile, I'm hoping the US will respond

By pulling out of Afghanistan and Iraq and extracting out people. That'll keep them safer.

[Catherina]

4. Unleash them Julian, right before you get extensive cosmetic surgery and a new ID. n/t

[Pavulon]

6. Cant change dna, bet they have a sample.

I used to do lots of sailing, I was amazed by just how big the ocean is.

[caseymoz]

284. But they can't spot your DNA on the street. nt

[jefferson_dem]

5. Sorry folks. This guy is a total asshole... and a reckless one.

[sirthomas66]

64. No, he is an International Hero, a 21st century Johnny Tremain

in the midst of a Black Swan event.

[DeSwiss]

66. Don't be sorry. You are entitled to your opinion. I just don't happen to share it. n/t

[Ruperto31]

114. Assange is a hero, and Pfc. Manning is a saint.

[pnwmom]

122. Assange is an egomaniac, and Manning is his useful idiot. n/t

[JDPriestly]

133. I think the information released in the Wikileaks (at least what I have read)

is interesting but should have been published in the press long ago.

Our "news media" should have reported on this stuff. If our media did its job, Wikileaks would not be of interest to anyone.

[mrarundale]

279. I think a lot of it WAS in the press, or too boring to bother with..eom

[JDPriestly]

318. Probably. Most of what I read is likely to be common knowledge

in the diplomatic corps. Maybe the material becomes more problematic. Maybe I haven't read enough of it (it isn't all that interesting).

[Ruperto31]

141. What is lower than an idiot. An imbecile, that's what.

Anyone who wants to be deceived by his government is an imbecile.

[Wednesdays]

251. "Idiot" is the classification of those with an IQ of 0-20.

Clearly, this is the face of someone with an IQ of 20 or less.

[abelenkpe]

237. Nice to see your unreasonable bias remain unchanged

You're a rock. When you make a judgement you never let go despite all evidence to the contrary.

[tavalon]

308. Likely, the truth lies somewhere between those two extremes.

[lutherj]

125. Apparently you think the US government still bears some legitamacy.

Our last great hope was Obama. Our nuclear option is Assange.

[treestar]

174. Insane.

might make a good movie, though.

[JDPriestly]

131. What I can't figure out is what laws he has broken.

I can't see that he has broken any. He is a news reporter of sorts. People, who knows who, give him information, and he passes it on.

He is breaking American laws, but he is not an American, so he really isn't subject to those laws. The laws he is breaking are not the kind of laws that are universally valid.

That is to say that if an American violates the laws protecting Russian secrets, Americans certainly would not enforce the Russian laws against that American. So who is to enforce American law against Assange?

If you can tell me what laws Assange has broken, I would like to know. I haven't been able to think of any.

He really has encrypted more than cables. He has found a huge flaw in the idea of national secrets. They are really only secret in the country that declares them to be secret, it would seem. If countries agreed to enforce the laws regarding secrets of their allies and enemies or of all nations, then there could be no espionage. The diplomats would never go for that.

Thus far, the release of these "secrets" may be embarrassing to some people but is not particularly harmful to anyone who was not already doing espionage for someone else. And of course if someone in Germany was doing espionage for the Americans, whose law does that violate? German law. But the release of the information about the violation of German law by a German citizen is our secret. Oh, this just goes in an endless circle to the point I have to laugh. It's the dog chasing its tale after a while.

[martymar64]

253. Setec Astronomy

:)

[TroglodyteScholar]

274. too...many...

;)

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[caseymoz]

285. He's a hero. Doing what our press should be doing. nt.

[Bigmack]

9. GO FOR IT JULIAN!

I am bone-ass tired of living in an information controlled, fascist state. BRING ON FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, quaint notion tho it has become...... Ms Bigmack

[Pavulon]

11. If he dumps sources names in Iran or N. Korea he is killing them.

if he does that the he should expect a post Munich like response against his organization.

[jefferson_dem]

13. This is no game.

If he goes down this road... he'll deserve whatever comes his way.

[Pavulon]

14. I assume he knows it will not just be him..

it will involve the entire organization. Deep webs, all the usual hiding spots will be in broad daylight, at minimum.

[sudopod]

100. You need to stop reading rainbow six books. nt

[Pavulon]

105. History is better. Legacy of ashes covers some

plenty more on the nytimes best seller list. The truth is far more shocking than a novel.

[BlueCaliDem]

23. What makes you think he isn't already being sought for execution

as we speak? You don't piss off the 0.8% of this world's global elite, and expect to live. They want to silence him to cover up their own illegal excursions.

If I were him, knowing I were going to be taken out, I'd do the same thing. He's warning them to back off, and with them, I mean the ruling elite in this world, not necessarily the governments. Governments are for us schmucks to feel as if we still have a say-so.

[Pavulon]

24. If he dumps names, it will not just be him.

he is past the point of warning, he either does this and sets of events that involve people being killed (including his people) or he does not.

[BlueCaliDem]

31. No. He's not past the point of warning. He's just starting.

And they're not listening, so time to rev it up.

If it gets unleashed, it's not his fault. It's never been his fault. It's theirs. He was given this sensitive information by people troubled by how governments are working against their own people, and he and his organization have worked hard with news media around the world to ensure highly sensitive, dangerous information wasn't made public.

The powerful elite don't like people knowing what they're doing, so their propaganda machine {news media} have begun demonizing him to the point that when they take him out, no tear would be shed.

[Pavulon]

35. Tell that to the people who die because he drops a dime on them.

if he names citizens in Iran or China (and half a dozen other shitholes) those people will be fucking dead, real quick. He was given this information by bradley manning who will get a death penalty charge if people die because of what he stole.

He is discussing dumping UNREDACTED information that means names. Because he does not want to go to jail.

It not just him, but everyone who touched it. He will be responsible for them as well.

If he dumps names rules change.

[tekisui]

37. Boogey boogey boo!

He still has the upper hand, and the fuckers at the top are still sweating.

[Pavulon]

40. If he dumps names his orginization will be treated like our friends in yemen

if he starts killing people others will respond in kind.

[tekisui]

42. lol. Are you suggesting they'll send drones and cluster bombs after him

and wikileaks? :rofl:

BTW, he isn't killing anyone. That is government work.

[Pavulon]

51. Lets be clear. If you live in Myanmar and this asshole drops your name

you are dead. Period. Same for china, iran, n korea any other place with shitty governments.

If he drops that name he should have the balls to admit he made the value call on that persons life. People make that call all the time in wars, happening right now, how many civilians die in an air strike.

If people are ok with those calls for their agenda, fine call it out. Buts lets be clear, names of sources means dead people.

and no, I am sure no one would appreciate us blowing up people in Germany. They end up in car trunks and get driven onto airbases and flown out of the country to bad places, where bad things happen, and they go away for good. or shit, just shot in the back of the head 5 times like gerry bull.

Names change the rules.

[eShirl]

147. "flown out of the country to bad places, where bad things happen"

Perhaps he believes this is already the fate that awaits him.

[Devil_Fish]

263. Well then, the U.S. better be sure that Asange is kept safe.

If names are dropped, it will be the responsibility of who ever took out Asange. He made it clear that if he is assassinated, names will be released. If I were BO I would give him a body gard, or even a full security detail.

[Pavulon]

299. Sure hope he doesn't have a legit heart attack raping some swedish chick

or the history of the entire world could be changed... What an egomaniac asshole this guy is.

[abqmufc]

55. Agreed...people forget

Agent Orange, Depleted Uranium shells in Iraq, illegal wars in Laos, Cambodia, and Latin America (to name a few), genocide of Navajo and Pueblo people for uranium, nuclear tests in Nevada and Atoll Islands, the School of Americas @ Fort Benning, GA, and GITMO....now these are examples of killing people....not Wikileaks. I still don't get how people are made at Wikileaks and NOT the US government.

[Pavulon]

59. All that bullshit means not one thing to the person in Myanmar

whose name pops up on the assange list. That person gets shot dead right after that happens.

[abqmufc]

81. just like the innocent who died at the hands of the US government....war is hell.

[Pavulon]

83. ok, you are down for the cause fine. People justify killing all the time

you ok with that death to justify his cause, no problem. Just be honest.

[Forkboy]

87. "People justify killing all the time."

You're right. You do it all the time. Want me to post them all, or will you run to the mods?

[Pavulon]

88. I dont fucking care what you post, dont use ignore dont use mods

but I can fucking guarantee whatever you post will not actually cover the impact of dumping real peoples names into the clear.

[Forkboy]

130. Ok, Sarge!

I don't use ignore and haven't alerted on a single one of your jackbooted wannabe posts!

[Alamuti Lotus]

94. eh fuck it

[Pavulon]

97. So is that a vote for fuck the sources?

not agents, not soldiers, civilian sources?

[Alamuti Lotus]

116. No, that was more "I don't have the stomach to yell at this guy again right now"

[laughingliberal]

166. I have seen that a lot from our war mongers, yes. What's that term? Collateral damage?

Seems a lot of people find it perfectly acceptable in the pursuit of our wars for oil.

But they go all 'sanctity of life' on us when people start striking at the PTB.

[JDPriestly]

138. Pavulon. This is such a conundrum, a fascinating conundrum.

Although we view the person in Myanamar as a hero, the government of Myanamar views that person as a traitor.

You view Assange as a potential I don't know what, maybe traitor. But in what country is he a traitor? To be a traitor in the US, he would have to be an American. But he is not an American, so he is not a traitor in our country.

Think about this strange, strange, confused situation. You think Assange should be killed for having betrayed someone in Myanamar who, to people like you in his country -- people who are patriots in Myanamar, is a traitor. So the people in Myanamar would kill this person you are talking about. But why? For betraying their country.

This is an Alice in Wonderland situation. Assange has certainly accomplished one thing. He has challenged the whole idea of secrecy. That is probably a good thing. Certainly I hope no one dies. But then if we don't want someone to die for giving away the secrets of Myanamar, then we certainly should not want someone to die for getting a hold of some of our least important secrets.

[PufPuf23]

179. Like you really care about some martyr in Myanmar that may have already taken risks

They have far more courage than a tough typing and tiresome keyboard commando at DU.

Think of the 1,000,000s of lives lost or degraded by the psychopathic cockroaches that lead our governments, intelligence agencies, global industries, banks and militaries.

[Pavulon]

244. So thats a vote for fuck it, let them die?

and dump the data?

[Wednesdays]

254. Maybe the guy in Myanamar should...oh, I dunno...get out of Myanamar?

:think:

At least, until this blows over?

[Pavulon]

300. Hey ever seen the news. The border guards in places in north korea face inwards

if you live there you cant hop a flight and leave. I dont have one of those stupid eye rolling things but maybe you thought of that scenario.

Say those nice young men in Iran. I wonder if there names will show up. If they do, they are done. And if that happens bradley is going to get the death penalty as well as his co conspirators.

[ronnie624]

315. Let who die? Do you have any names or other details. n/t

[Devil_Fish]

264. And it will be the falt of the U.S. for assasinating Assange.

[RaleighNCDUer]

281. You think that (mythical) person in Myanmar didn't get into espionage

knowing full well that is what the likely result would be?

You do know, don't you, that 99% of informants in other countries are low-life scum, who are not acting out of principle but out of wanting that American paycheck, don't you? And that most the information we get from them is crap, stuff that could be gleaned by reading the local papers? Want some good examples of US foreign assets? Trujillo. Noriega. Saddam. Bin Laden.

So who gives a fuck.

[Pavulon]

302. Another vote for the cause. I have no problem with people who will kill for a cause

just the ones who will not admit they are doing it. You are ok with dead people in trade for access to information, fine. Not the first person who made that trade. You dont give a shit about someone in china or north korea who gets killed if there name shows up. I wonder if those two american hikers in iran will show up. If they do, they are dead. Fine thats a defendable position..

I dont give a fuck about everyone who put that file out just going away or maybe ending up like than nice man from mi6 stuffed in his luggage. I am comfortable with that equation.

I would bet some of the people involved in the assange group do not want to die for the cause. People behave differently when they realize that they are making a choice that will end lives.

I would bet many of those people have families they would like to see again. Not everyone can walk away from their kids like assange did.

[vanbean]

182. "genocide of Navajo and Pueblo people for uranium" Do you really believe that?

There is a difference between genocide and unknown work hazards.

[Hestia]

208. Martin Sheen did a great documentary about Uranium & Navajo & Pueblo people.

Literally brought me to tears. Sorry for the OT.

[vanbean]

335. I've mined uranium along with Navajo and Pueblo Indians, and I never saw any genocide.

The hazards of radiation were not known when the mines were started. Many miners, of many different races, died as a result. But to call it genocide is a stretch. BTW, many of the Navajo employees refused to work underground due to their beliefs, and as a result found jobs on the surface or in the open pit mines. Out of all of the miners I worked with, I can only remember two Navajos, although I can remember many Pueblo Indians. However, I understand that at the Church Rock mines near Gallup, NM the miners were mostly all Navajo. Most of those who mined in the '50's and '60's are dead, but they weren't sacrificed on purpose. Also, many Navajos died from exposure to radiation from tailing piles; some hogans were constructed with adobe made with material from uranium tailings. Unfortunate as that is, it cannot be called genocide.

[Life Long Dem]

149. And what does he have if he plays that hand?

He must know it would be game over. Then he is fucked. I think he's still fucked right now. He must be under pressure as it is to say such a thing in the first place.

[RaleighNCDUer]

286. That's exactly the point. If he releases that info he has nothing to

protect him. But by announcing he has that info set up as a "deam man's switch" it protects him from assassination. The ONLY way that info goes public is if he is killed.

[mudplanet]

104. Such a criminal. Unlike the people that murdered all those Iraqis, Iranians,

Guatemalans, Salvadorans, Colombians, Palestinians, etc etc etc

On a scale of assholes and criminals, Assange falls way, way, way below hundreds of people who work at Langely and for State. You want to start calling people out for being responsible for murder, try Kissinger, Negroponte, and the rest of the scum associated with the raygun and Bush admins.

We can't have any heros if the murdering scum get to act in complete obscurity. Let's give them a chance to live up to their personal myths that they're brave heroes.

I hope he does it tomorrow morning.

[martymar64]

255. I heard Bush Sr once said that if the people knew the real truth, they'd hang 'em all

from the nearest tree.

Setec Astronomy

[JDPriestly]

137. You do not know where he got the information any more than I do.

The name Bradley Manning has been dropped, but we don't know that he has anything to do with this current mass of documents. Perhaps he is suspected of providing the access to some of the earlier documents.

This bunch of documents is from the diplomatic database. It could be someone in the state department. It could be someone from a foreign country -- China or Russia or Iran or even Israel or Egypt. Who knows?

That is why I think that Assange will not be murdered. He probably did not steal this information, but he may (or may not) know how it came to him. That is what the authorities probably want to know. All the hype on right-wing radio is just ignorant hot air.

The question is where these documents came from. Because it is possible that the person who provided the documents to Assange was American and violated American law.

But then it is also possible that the person was a foreign national and is not subject to American law at all.

[tomp]

153. what about the people who are already dead or dying due to the crimes of govts...

...all around the world?

you got a better way to stop that? we'd love to hear it.

[TheMadMonk]

295. The informants are sacrosanct? Exactly why? They are not working...

...for America, but the oligarchy we should be fighting.

Some informants may have saved lives. How many of the million or so dead in Iraq and hundreds of thousands more in Afghanistan died as the result of information provided by informants? Often deliberately false information intended to stir up more tension between the US and the locals.

What is so bloody noble about America's spies and informants that makes their lives so important and the lives of those their information killed so valueless?

[Curtis]

44. That is simply

The BEST point I've heard anyone make about this entire thing. Kudos to you!

[Pavulon]

52. Guess you dont live in china and your name is not about to get dropped..

all fun and games until it impacts you.

[JDPriestly]

140. Think of it. If every country allowed a person like Assange to live free

and out whatever secrets they could get a hold of without any repercussions, all governments in the world, including the Chinese government, would behave much better.

Interesting thought. What if no country could keep a secret about the actions of its government. I bet that would be the end of war.

It's like in marriage. The more honest a couple can be with each other without invoking anger, the more likely the marriage will last. Takes a sense of humor, of course, to live honestly because you have to be willing to accept and maybe even laugh not only at the faults of others but at your own.

Maybe a world in which no country could keep a secret or needed to conduct espionage would be a lot nicer than the world we live in today. What do you think?

[RaleighNCDUer]

287. never mind that no name will be dropped UNLESS he is killed.

That's why it is called an insurance policy.

[davidwparker]

28. 100% Right - 0% Wrong

[BenzoDia]

29. So you'd put out a bunch of documents with people's names in them

where they're complaining about the suppressive government they live in? Have you thought this through?

[BlueCaliDem]

33. What hyperbole. What part of him having told the Guardian that

he's worked closely with news media to redact information too dangerous to publicize don't you get?

He's bluffing. Let's hope the governments don't call him on it because the blood will be on their hands. Not his.

[Pavulon]

38. No, new jesus said he will dump unredacted docs if he goes to jail

so hear is how reality works, not whatever goes on in your noggin. If a person (citizen) in china or iran's name comes up they will be shot in the face with a 9mm sidearm and they will be dead. Done, no trial no due process. Splatter.

If he gets agents killed bradley manning will get a death penalty charge and assanges people become a military problem. Think post munich.

In case you dont read, they will pick the organization apart, not with internet hacks.

[BlueCaliDem]

47. Oh you of much too much faith in the Powers that Be. AHA!!

What world do you live in? Surely, you can't be this naive? Assange go to jail? Oh my fucking god, you can't be serious.

This guy will have an accident looooooong before he'll ever see a court room.

Wake up. This ain't Kansas anymore.

[Pavulon]

54. Its never been kansas. you new hero is playing in a space

that has been busy since the end of ww2. Except he has no state to protect him.

he will not have an accident, he will either continue on being an pain in the ass or he will be assassinated along with people making this thing go around.

nothing new, if he is the next gerry bull its his own decision. If he kills people he owns it.

[BlueCaliDem]

62. Govts don't "do" assassinations, 'member? They will ensure he has an "accident"

because there are too many people around the world who aren't blinded by love of government and the insane need to give these corrupt entities the benefit of the doubt all the time.

If he's assassinated, he becomes a martyr. If he has an accident, well, sad and tragic, but life goes on. Either way, I will be utterly surprised if he survives this huge slap in the face of the elite.

If people are killed he does NOT own it. THEY do. Get a clue already. He's drawn a line in the sand. They can either back the fuck up or keep advancing to shove him in his place; pushing him back and telling him to bow his head just like you and I do. He said no.

If he was such a coward and world slave like you and I, he wouldn't have started WikiLeaks to begin with, would he?

[Pavulon]

68. So where does that leave the person whose name he dropped. Feel free to answer

real clearly. Are you willing to support him if he names people who give intelligence to the US in places like Myanmar and China? Are you ok with their executions?

People get to die for a cause all the time. Guess they can die for his.

[BlueCaliDem]

70. Let's just hope your worse-case scenario never happens. Let's trust in that

government you continue to see as some honorable entity with do the right thing and back off. If they don't, be sure to lay the blame of countless deaths at their doorstep. Not his.

They're the ones who didn't give a shit about those people as they continued to try to intimidate him, and shut him up, teaching him who's his Daddy.

[Pavulon]

72. An elegant dodge. Again. Are you ok with naming people in places like Myanmar

where they will be executed? You understand the question? If so its ok to justify killing for a cause, it happens every day. Just be honest about it.

Rather than drop a dime he could go face his rape charge without killing people in the process.

[Duer 157099]

77. And who put those names on the list in the first place?

And why isn't it their responsibility to make sure that list NEVER EVER gets out? Huh? Who? Assange? Assange put those names on a piece of paper? I don't think so.

Seems to me that whoever put the names on a piece of paper and then LOST CONTROL of that piece of paper is the guilty party, PERIOD.

[Pavulon]

80. So the fact bradley stole them makes it ok for assange to release their names in your book

people die and kill for a cause every day. You want to justify death for assange's cause, fine. God, allah, money, nation state, whatever. All ideas, just like julians, that people become corpses for all the time.

Wont be you so who cares.

And seriously, its the US's fault because someone stole information, a federal crime and this asshole is making a name off of it. Now threatening to kill people with it..

[Duer 157099]

93. All I am saying is put the blame where it rightly belongs

Assange is just the delivery boy holding the paper and if he is targeted, the paper falls as is. Blame the responsible party.

[Pavulon]

98. Yes, bradley will get an upgraded charge if people die

because of his actions. and assanges' organization will become a target for more than ddos.

[Duer 157099]

101. If Bradley is the guilty party, he deserves what the law says he deserves

And so does Assange, which is ZILCH.

[Pavulon]

102. Assange is a military problem.

bradley had constitutional protection. Assange has exactly what gerry bull had. Not shit.

[Duer 157099]

107. Assange is playing the role of the media

Freedom of the press and all that rubbish

[tkmorris]

148. Do you really believe a PFC stole the names of agents in Burma?

Or anywhere else? You've never been in the military have you?

[kenfrequed]

241. Gods I have been wanting to say that for awhile!

Seriously, he did not steal some super secret x-files keystone to all things ever classified by anyone.

Ever heard of compartmentalization? It is one of the central features of modern intelligence. Or how about 'Need to Know?' Strictly speaking a person working in Afghanistan or Iraq in intel has almost no reason to know anything about secret intelligence gathering assets working in Burma and there is even less reason for a list of agents to just be laying around somewhere. Never mind that you aren't just speaking about different regions and different branches but also the difference between military and civilian service assets.


This argument being laid out is absurd. This guy has been targeted and smeared repeatedly for releasing evidence of things we have already known for quite some time and the media has failed, repeatedly, to investigate.

[Pavulon]

246. Yep his compartment was big and he dumped lots of data

so yep he had access to cables. Cables from Iceland about banking and cables about Iranian missile systems. Those have names in them as well as information that should not be publicly.

The logic was more sharing of information, and this is the risk of expanding compartments without proper monitoring.

Bradley can come sue me if he is innocent, but my bet is he dies in florence adx an old man.

[kenfrequed]

270. Not quite correct.

You still only recieve wire of what is cleared for you and relevant to your area of operations. Your argument still doesn't quite work. Message traffic is not the internet, you do not get to just look at anything you want in the world. So, again, no to Burma operatives, and no to chinese operatives.

In fact the CIA rarely makes it a habit to tell the military percisely who their source is and often states A: How reliable the source is B: the quality of information C: Possible motivation of the source etc... There is no friggin reason in the universe the CIA is going to drop shorts on a human source in the field to Joe Analyst PFC 96B working out of some damned sciff. Believe otherwise if you like, but you would only be making yourself look silly.

Your slamming Mr. Wikileaks based on your interpretation of what you think he might be threatening to release in an effort to protect himself is absurd. There is probably plenty of embarassing intel that could be released that would not compromise people in the field. In fact, it is far more likely that the held back information is more embarassing to the agencies and authorities than it is damaging to sources (most of which he is unlikely to know) assaulting sources is not a credible defense, embarssing military leaders and politicians might be.

His initial data dumps have been a hundred percent justifiable. The mainstream media had dropped the ball in the lead up to the war and continued to do so during its prosecution and in the treatment of the Iraqi and Afghani peoples up to, during, and after the war.

[Name removed]

294. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TexasObserver]

323. "Bwadwees"? What's that supposed to mean?

Are you reduced to contorting his name, merely because he has morals and courage?

Why would this particular man invite your ridicule over his name?

Are you jealous of his courage?

Are you envious of his strength and dedication?

[Pavulon]

245. No only staff officers chicken level or above do real work. Every PPT.. A spc later busted to pfc

would never have access to any real information. Especially if he had an intelligence MOS.

SO lets recap, people with E3 routinely get TS SC clearances. Who do you think makes all those power points and does the work? Looks like bradley had lots of access he should not have had.

And yes having been all i could be I can easily believe he had the access and hated the army (a given)

[kenfrequed]

330. Subjective BS

'Hated the Arm' a given. Is there actually a part of your argument that isn't cribbed off of '24' and Fox news?

[BlueCaliDem]

92. Rape charge? You mean the FABRICATED charge by a CIA-funded, anti-Castro woman? That one?

It's on the Greatest Threads page. Didn't see it?

And I'm not dodging a question. Like I said, hyperbole, but I'll add, conjecture at best.

He hasn't dropped a single name of any vulnerable persons in Myanmar or China or elsewhere. If you have proof he has, please post it here, otherwise it's just more Bee Ess fearmongering.

And I'm not impressed. Just so you know.

[Pavulon]

95. That his THREAT. Read the OP.

so again how do you feel about the consequences for those named in his little game? This would be the third time I posed that question.

[quakerboy]

109. Are you willing to support the US government in naming those people?

Are you ok with US bringing on their executions? They are the ones that put that person there. They are the ones that hired a guy in a position with access to that information and the will to leak it. They are the ones putting Assange in a position where he feels under threat, where his only potential leverage is that release. They are the ones forcing the release of the info, if it goes down that way.


I understand much of what you have been saying. Its a brutal world. And our operatives in various places do not deserve to get handed to killers and torturers. Do you understand that many of those taken into custody in our wars and tortured or killed also did not deserve to be handed to torturers and killers?

We are stuck in a lose lose situation, as citizens. Either we oppose what our own government is doing wrong, to the detriment of our own national credibility and potentially at the cost of some of our own safety. Or we do not. I am curious where you stand in that.

I believe that many here feel that supporting Assange is one of the only tools we have in that opposition to our own government. It is fair to argue that we either have to follow a similar line with Assange, or be hypocrites. But I would say that as US citizens, which I believe most here on DU are, our first responsibility is to mind our own store, before worrying about some foreign national who is not physically attacking any of our citizens nor even any of the principals that our nation was founded on.

[Hestia]

213. I guess the same place when Cheney, Bush, Addison, et al, outed Brewster Jennings & Valerie Plame

You can guaran-damn-tee it that people died. Were you on here then, with your panties in a bunch about operatives dying due to this massive outing of the CIA, wringing your hands in horror, blubbering of people being outed? Thought not.

[Devil_Fish]

269. +1,000,000.

[BenzoDia]

58. What gives him the right to bluff with other people's lives?

Have you been following the stories? There's information on innocents giving intel on legitimate corruption. What do they have to do with any of this. The article said the insurance file has all the documents, names still in there.

And besides, there's over 200,000 files in there, do you think anyone has the resources to sort through them all?

[BlueCaliDem]

74. You didn't think those governments, including ous, gives a good goddamn about all those

peoples lives, do you? They would've stopped trying to squeeze him and force him into a corner, if they did. They darn well know what he's got. They're the ones playing with fire. Not him.

They're only interested that none of their clandestine operations will be exposed so that they can continue murdering with impunity, for the riches of the few.

And bluff is just that: bluff. There's nothing in the book that says they HAVE to call him on it, is there? Why are you shoveling all the blame on him? Remember, he didn't hack into some super-secret super-computer.

The information he has was GIVEN TO HIM by concerned people. He didn't pay for it. It was given freely. Ask yourself ... why.

[Pavulon]

78. Because Bradley hated the army and wanted attention..

it was stolen, so bradley will die in federal custody. Unless assange drops names and people die. Then bradley will be executed.

The world is not kindergarten. If assange the names he owns the bodies.

Say how is trying to stabilize a korean unification with china a bad thing? I swear some of you would have been fans of the E German state.

[Mimosa]

214. What kind of security org lets sensitive/crucial info flow thru hands of unstable 22 yr old PFC?

If anything maybe these security agencies will tighten up their procedures.

[BenzoDia]

158. So anyone who is potentially harmed by these leaks is just collateral damage

of the pursuit of "greater good". No one put him in charge.

Information is kept secret b/c the average person loses their damned mind when they have it.

[laughingliberal]

168. Yeah, those founders were idiots with all that blah, blah, 1st amendment junk.

The people have the right to know what the government decides they have the right to know, damn it!

[pnwmom]

123. No, if he sends out the unredacted files the blood is on HIS hands.

Even the redacted files are hardly safe, since you can't cover an identity simply by blacking out a name.

[tekisui]

41. You assume there are documents with people's names complaining

about their suppressive government. We don't know what else is in there, what countries are involved or what the subject matter.

He is putting the ball in the governments' court. They can call off the dogs, or it's all laid bare. They should choose to let him release it in an organized manner.

[BenzoDia]

46. Did you read the article?

"The 1.3-gigabyte file, distributed through file-sharing services this summer and protected with an unbreakable 256-bit encryption key, contains full versions of all the U.S. documents received by WikiLeaks to date – including those that have been withheld from publication or have had names and details removed in order to protect the lives of spies, sources and soldiers."

[tekisui]

49. I guess they better call off the dogs then.

:shrug:

[Pavulon]

56. or they let him kill the sources

and we start cashing in favors to deal with his people. its really his move.

[Forkboy]

90. What's it feel like to be so full of tough talk....

...and yet realize DU is your only outlet for it?

I'm surprised the frustration doesn't get to you to the point where half of your posts aren't about someone getting shot or killed!!!

Oh, wait.....

[Pavulon]

91. I wonder if you are capable of posting something other than ad hom?

I mean I have never see you post something that actually related to a thread.

[Forkboy]

129. So tell the mods.

Let them do a search and see every time you talk about someone dying violently. How many dozens do you suppose it is by now?

I wonder if you're capable of talking about current issues that don't involve someone getting shot in the head?

[Guilded Lilly]

36. I quietly agree. n/t

[Swampguana]

39. is he getting what he deserves right now?

personally I don't think so. The way he feel is he's already on that road.

[tekisui]

43. The world leaders play global politics like a game.

Only, they actually kill people.

The game has been exposed. That is why there are so many, so pissed.

[JDPriestly]

135. jefferson_dem, I do believe that Jefferson, during his stay in France,

and certainly Benjamin Franklin in that country, did everything they could to find out the secrets of all the different parties in France.

It's human nature to want to pry into your neighbor's business. Somebody wanted to pry into ours.

My grandmother used to live opposite a very elderly, very lonely woman who would spend the day peering out of a corner of her window. She didn't want people to know she was doing this, so she only opened her curtain a crack. She was the laughing stock of the neighborhood. Of course, everyone knew what she was doing.

We try to look into the secrets of other countries. It's really kind of a joke that now all of our diplomatic secrets are out. Thus far, I think these "secrets" are not really that strategically important.

I hope that our government learns this lesson: keep only the most important information as secret, and keep that information very, very secret. I think that Wikileaks would not have happened had we identified less of this information as "secret," let the rest of it be released if people were interested and then really guarded the important "secrets."

We had too many secrets that did not need to be secret. It is much easier to prevent the loss of a few diamonds than to prevent the loss of hundreds of thousands of them. To prepare and maintain these thousands of secret transmissions must have involved a lot of people and a lot of computers. Of course, sooner or later, someone would lose a computer or something. All it would take was once lost computer with a couple of e-mails in plain English and some sort of link to the whole lot of e-mails, and there you would have it.

That may not be the way it was done. I have no idea how it was done although I have a lot of different theories. But it was foolish to try to keep so many secret e-mails.

[caseymoz]

288. If they're threatening to kill him and his friends and family

Why should he feel moral obligation toward our people? Especially after what the world has seen from us in the last ten years?

It sounds like war to me.

[howmad1]

76. Geez, what about when cheney outed Valerie Plame?

Where was the outrage? Go Julian, tell all and let this government and the banksters all go to hell with their lies.

[JVS]

145. Given your condemnation of Assange and Manning, why wouldn't the North Korean or Iranian security...

breech be worthy of similar treatment?

[RaleighNCDUer]

278. And the trigger to dumping them would be the US doing bad things to him -

such as assassination.

So, if those names get out it will be the government's fault, not his. And, BTW, he'll already be fucking DEAD.

[caseymoz]

289. They've already crippled his legal defense.

It shows what they really think of justice here.

[zogofzorkon]

12. +10,000

[davidwparker]

27. +1

[femrap]

15. Tell us about

the Banksters....let it rip.

What's wrong with telling the TRUTH?

[Pavulon]

17. Go for the banks, that is legal and does not involve killing people

dumping peoples names who work for us in china, n korea, iran is the same as placing a gun to tha back of their head and dropping the pin. Exact same, except he will not be getting blood on his shoes.

[CHIMO]

19. Who

Is us and who is not us?

[Pavulon]

22. us would be the US, and them will be killing those people

when this asshole drops a fucking dime on them.

[CHIMO]

25. Well

You got us correct. But perhaps the not us is everyone else?

Your replies are really fast.

[laughingliberal]

170. And 'those people' who will die are worth more than those we've killed in our wars for oil?

Or are their lives worth more than the Reuter's reporters who we saw killed in Collateral murder? It's funny to watch the war mongers go all 'sanctity of life' on us.

[struggle4progress]

16. ... Labor not for earthly glory. Fame's a fickle slut, and whory.

From thy fancy's chaste couch drive her. He's a fool who'd strive to swive her!

Sotweed Factor
John Barth

[Beacool]

18. This guy must have a death wish.

He better quit while he's ahead or someone is going to take care of him permanently. Who the hell does he think he is to try to blackmail the US???

:crazy:

[Oak2004]

120. No, he has a life wish

If he quit now, he's dead for sure.

[caseymoz]

290. As of three days ago he couldn't quit.

Quit while he's ahead. You don't do this when your ahead. This is desperation.

[truth2power]

20. Do it! If they have nothing to hide.....eom

[pnwmom]

124. Diplomacy depends on secrecy. Anyone who says otherwise

is either naive or deliberately skewing the truth.

[caseymoz]

291. But you could always start again.

And judging by the last document dump and the response of these nations now, there was something rotten in our diplomacy that needed some air.

[BenzoDia]

21. So he's actually threatening to release sensitive info w/o removing the names?

And people are defending this...

[MrBig]

50. Sad...isn't it

All you need to do is claim to be "fighting the man" and "taking down the evil powers that be" and you can get away with pretty much anything around here.

[caseymoz]

292. Well, it's not like he and his editors have the time right now.

They've cut off his legal defense, they've undercut Wikileaks' bank account, they've made concerted attacks on his website and have coerced web hosts to drop him. They're threatened with arrest and death.

Information is the only thing he has going for him now. His only defense. If he's doing this, he feels his back is against the wall.

[Pavulon]

307. I am sure the people who die because he dimed them out

will be thinking about his feelings right before they get shot. fuck his feelings. he is in over his head, he wanted to play egomaniac, now he has to finish the game.

[caseymoz]

310. How about him and his friends.

In any case, since he's negotiating to surrender it looks like this is moot. It looks like his threat was in order to reduce the chance he would disappear or be killed in custody, which is really the danger he faces.

But: He has no obligation for people who are in countries they have no right to be in for a country that's both foreign and hostile to him, and working for a government in that country which has been subverted to corporations and its dominant, corrupt, unelected sectors. Period. Why should he think about them, say more than they think about him, his friends and family? If the US wants to do the right thing, lay off Assange and his people for a while and extract the ones most endangered. Of course, this would entail stopping our illegal, murderous activities overseas, so that's not going to happen.

Hey, suppose he plays egomaniac and wins. Is the game still egomaniac?

[cbdo2007]

26. And 95% of DU think this guy is a hero?? This is all a power trip for him.

[tekisui]

45. I don't think of him as a hero.

I think he very smart and knows how to play the game and stay alive. I also think there is great value in what he is doing. His motives are immaterial to me.

[Zorro]

61. What great value has been produced?

The knowledge that US diplomats around the world provide detailed insight into the motivations of foreign leaders?

That the US is interested in getting as much situational knowledge as possible to attempt to influence the outcome of events?

[tekisui]

65. KIlling kids with cluster bombs in Yemen and covering it up.

Blocking torture investigations.

State Department supported a coup that the President publicly called illegal.

And, all the governments lie, cheat, steal and kill.

[Zorro]

73. War is hell

Like it or not, the US is not a signatory to the treaty banning the use of cluster bombs.

And the State Department did not support the ouster of Zelaya in Honduras, but did monitor and report the situation.

Here's what the White House stated about the leaks:

We anticipate the release of what are claimed to be several hundred thousand classified State department cables on Sunday night that detail private diplomatic discussions with foreign governments. By its very nature, field reporting to Washington is candid and often incomplete information. It is not an expression of policy, nor does it always shape final policy decisions. Nevertheless, these cables could compromise private discussions with foreign governments and opposition leaders, and when the substance of private conversations is printed on the front pages of newspapers across the world, it can deeply impact not only US foreign policy interests, but those of our allies and friends around the world. To be clear -- such disclosures put at risk our diplomats, intelligence professionals, and people around the world who come to the United States for assistance in promoting democracy and open government. These documents also may include named individuals who in many cases live and work under oppressive regimes and who are trying to create more open and free societies. President Obama supports responsible, accountable, and open government at home and around the world, but this reckless and dangerous action runs counter to that goal. By releasing stolen and classified documents, Wikileaks has put at risk not only the cause of human rights but also the lives and work of these individuals. We condemn in the strongest terms the unauthorized disclosure of classified documents and sensitive national security information.

I believe the Obama administration has provided quite an accurate description of the lack of value in the public release of these documents. It is a reckless and dangerous act by an attention whore with a martyr complex.

[bhikkhu]

103. So far, it has been far from reckless.

From everything I have heard, the dire consequences feared from prior released have failed to materialize because Wikileaks has carefully redacted all material that might have endangered individuals.

Keeping in mind that publishing the information they have is strictly legal, and that it has been done with care, and that he is nevertheless threatened with death, torture, etc, chiefly by public individuals in the US, the threat to publish unredacted information seems more of a reminder of what they could do, but chose not to.

[tomp]

154. you're a fool because you believe what the u.s. govt. says.

and "war is hell"? that's an incredibly callous thing to say from someone who seems oh, so concerned about "our" agents.

julian assange is more like...well, zorro.

[Zorro]

161. Are you saying Obama is not working for the best interests of the US?

It's the White House statement, and I believe this administration is in a better position to assess the impact of the release of these documents than you.

Assange is an attention whore with a martyr complex.

[tomp]

305. you are a child of the government.

you are a baby who is happy to let daddy obama do all your thinking for you and "take care" of you. let all those hyper-10 dimensional-chess players in the white house figure it all out and tell us what to do and what we should believe. guys like richard helms and dick cheney. yeah, i trust them. try to remember, secrets , just like the rest of u.s. imperialism, are bipartisan and are kept from administration to administration. why do you think obama is not prosecuting bush/cheney? never mind, i know you've got some stupid answer for that.

but what you don't see, apparently, is the actual effect of the govt's actions. we already know the crimes, and we know they are keeping much of the background secret. now we have evidence of it. and it makes mommy clinton and daddy obama look all icky, and that uspet's baby, doesn't it?

your position is criminally naive and exactly why the documents should have been released.

the question in your subject line is so telling, that it is not even within the ability of your baby brain to conceive the opposite. yes, i am exactly saying that obama is not working for the best interests of the u.s.and that he has fooled you into thinking otherwise. he is working explicitly and only for the interests of the rich, and not just american rich, as imperialism is not strictly national anymore.

[Zorro]

309. You and the teabagging freepers have a lot in common

You spew the same irrational hatred for Obama. You're a prime example of the anti-US, self-loathing leftwit.

No wonder Democrats have a difficult time in office, with the likes of you cheering betrayal of the country to stroke your feelings of inferiority.

[tomp]

324. wow, you really are utterly clueless.

you and the mccarthyites have a lot in common. i'm not the one betraying the country--that's the dems and repubs. they have taken sides with the wealthy against the rest of us. they have colluded with the media to obfuscate the truth. that is real betrayal. and you have, with absolute cluelessness, bought their "patriotic" spin. it is you who represents the real danger to the country.

my psychoanalysis of you had basis in your actual words, little govt baby.

show me where you see my self-loathing and inferiority. you're just spouting psychobabble.

[Zorro]

331. Your feelings of inadequacy are quite understandable

It's what drives teabagging freepers to likewise blame Obama and the government for their lack of personal accomplishment and their sorry lives.

Tell us again how it's patriotic to betray the confidences of the government, psychonurse.

[laughingliberal]

183. "And the State Department did not support the ouster of Zelaya in Honduras, "

Our state department dithered around and tried to lead the American people to believe they were, somehow, 'confused' about whether the coup was illegal. Had they admitted they knew from the get go that it was an illegal coup, there would have been legally bound to impose sanctions. One of the cables released by Wikileaks exposed that they were informed early of the illegal nature of the coup and that there was no legitimate reason for the ouster of Zelaya. The value of Wikileak releases is to expose how often our government lies to us and how it's almost always in the interest of supporting nefarious interests.

By not standing against the ouster of Zelaya, they did, in fact, support it.

[Azathoth]

151. DU is so far off the left end of the cliff it's sad

It's not difficult to become a hero to people on the extreme fringes.

[FrancisTreptoe]

190. Haha

And how is it not heroic that an individual is taking a stand against world powers that operate through lies and secrecy?

[WolverineDG]

156. 5%-er checking in

there's something "off" with this story. I've noticed that every time the news focus shifts away from Assange, he puts out another round of threats & pronouncements, such as demanding that Obama resign. Sorry, asshat, I don't take marching orders from attention whores.

dg

[caseymoz]

293. And if it just weren't for all the terror and fear, it might be a perfect one.

If he can get any "power trip" out of fighting for his life, he deserves awe, but it sounds impossible to me.

[bluedigger]

30. What stage is bargaining , again?

Principles are always the first thing to go in extremis - he's becoming that which he despises.

[caseymoz]

333. He feels his life is threatened.

This wasn't the first thing to go.

[Lint Head]

32. It is the lie that kills.

Anyone not knowing what that means deserves the fate that ignorance brings and that fate is not bliss.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. He's got a few balls in a vise,,,good on you Julian

[Zorro]

53. Play with fire

and one just might get burned.

Threatening to unleash a "thermonuclear device" is just begging for even more of the kind of attention he's been receiving.

[bhikkhu]

57. You have to look at Wikileaks' previously stated intentions to understand it

A part of what he was out to prove was that it was possible for a normal person with good intentions to speak the truth, even if it was uncomfortable for those in power. By very publicly, with Wikileaks, legally publishing information, he hoped to lift a "veil of fear" that keeps many people silent about crimes they have witnessed or have information about. This fear and the silence it produces are what drives and encourages authoritarian regimes. Again, if Wikileaks was scrupulous and good intentioned, and at least as careful as the governments producing the information in assuring that nothing was published that endangered individuals, then Assange imagined he should be able to live a reasonably normal life, and the web of secrecy and corruption we live under would, to some extend, begin to unravel.

...perhaps naive, but it seems that he is under some amount of pressure, and all the efforts of care taken with the material have been largely unnoticed by those in power. In similar circumstances I have to say I would probably act similarly - screw the bastards and let the rotten mess of their own creation go to hell with them. I'd also not expect to live very long.

[Pavulon]

60. See thats the difference in the guy who shoots himself and the person who kills his kids first

if he dumps names of citizens in other countries he kills them. If someone kills him later, who cares.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RogueBandit]

75. He has offered to let them help redact ... they refuse

They refuse to help redact, he releases the information unredacted ... now it's questionable who has the greatest responsibility, and probably your political affiliation will determine who you pick. I pick the US Government. They are crooks and liars, and that's mostly what all the leaked documents and videos show. There are a few honest people sitting in the Capital, but they have no power other than an occasional news media statement. The leaks also show what liars and crooks the other governments are. All bought with corporation dollars, in my opinion.

The government knows enough to figure out what names might be in those documents. They could start a protection program right now, should have started it long ago. On the other hand, Cheney disclosed Valarie Blame and we will probably never know who died as a result of that. And on the last hand, leaks like those from WikiLeaks might just save 10's of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of lives in the near and distant future because the liars got called on the carpet.

Julian Asagne is being accused of having "sex with a broken condom" by a woman who was happy to have breakfast with him afterward. That qualifies for rape in Sweden, but probably in no other country. For that he has an international search for him going on. For that, he is wanted for a private governmental meeting without lawyers, assistants or public visibility.

All this latest hoopla has intensified since he stated he was going to release documents from a major US bank. The politicians wanted him before, but now the banks want him as well. Speculation is that it will be Bank of America. Any major US bank has a special place in the "crooks and liars" category, so now they want to kill him -- which will do nothing to stop the releases because he is not a solitary actor in all this. The could only stop it by killing hundreds if not thousands of people, and they would be exposed if they even started doing that.

The crooks and liars are scared rats who can't abandon the ship because they are the ship. They are lashing out, like anyone in the early stages of the grieving process.

Rant over.

[Pavulon]

82. No shit they refuse.

what does he expect? who fucking cares about a bank, thats legit whistle blowing. Dumping names is not.

And they will take steps if he escalates and starts killing people by dropping names.

This does not need a really long post. If he dumps peoples names in a country where we can not help them and they die, he killed them.

That. fucking. simple.

[tekisui]

86. No, he wouldn't have killed them. State actors would have killed them.

State actors that we protect and work with. They all have blood on their hands.

[Pavulon]

89. so if he dumps names in Iran, and they get hung

thats our fault because we work with iran?

[bhikkhu]

99. Well, it seems your opinion is pretty well fixed. n/t

[sudopod]

106. Hypothetical people in those documents really distress you.

But the lies that the documents uncover could halt things like war in Iraq, which led to 100,000 very dead, very real people. In the grim calculus of life and death, if that release prevents another 100,000, or even a few megadeaths, in an attack on Iran or Yemen or Who The Fuck Ever, would it make a difference to you? Hypothetically speaking?

[laughingliberal]

180. Ironic, huh? Collateral damage in our wars for oil=acceptable. People die if the truth is exposed?

Well, now we see some going all 'sanctity of life' on us.

[Pavulon]

247. Hey now you get it. Someone decided those bodies were worth their cause. Waiting for you people

to make that call too. Just admit it, if he dumps names, the dead people are worth it. I mean for the cause and all.

[sudopod]

257. If it stopped a war.

If it saved us from a slow decline into a police state?

Would it be worth it?

[Pavulon]

258. How many bodies, men women children

I am sure there is a formula everyone uses. But no to boost a dudes ego is not worth lives.

[sudopod]

262. Wikileaks is more than one person.

But you knew that.

[Pavulon]

306. Yep, I'm betting there is a standing plan

to deal with everyone who touched that information if it leads to US deaths or the impact of what is released warrants a response. Would not be the first time that happened.

I seem to remember people ending up in stuffed in car trunks and flown unhappy places recently.

[sudopod]

316. Oh? nt

[DeSwiss]

63. K&R

[SoapBox]

67. Bravo Julian. You ARE doing the right thing...

...expose these liars and cheats. I am SO over
the bull that goes on with these tin-plated
"government" officials.

Over it.

[2QT2BSTR8]

84. I am eager to know what is in the "insurance file".

[Bodhi BloodWave]

85. Is you knowing whats in the file worth who knows how many human lives? n/t

[2QT2BSTR8]

108. I dont think Assange is that stupid...

to fill the insurance file with cables that will risk lives. Heh! On that end, I am just a joe schmo, so I wont distribute the file or the materials contained herein. I just want to read it, and I think all US citizens have a right to all cablegate related materials.

on edit:
was: fill the file
changed to:fill the insurance file

[Bodhi BloodWave]

110. the two most relevant areas in regards to what we are talking about from the article at the link.

The 1.3-gigabyte file, distributed through file-sharing services this summer and protected with an unbreakable 256-bit encryption key, contains full versions of all the U.S. documents received by WikiLeaks to date – including those that have been withheld from publication or have had names and details removed in order to protect the lives of spies, sources and soldiers.

*snip*

Mr. Assange’s lawyer Mark Stephens warned that if Mr. Assange were to be brought to trial on rape accusations he faces in Sweden, or for treason charges that have been suggested by U.S. politicians, he would release the encryption key. The tens of thousands of people who have downloaded the file would instantly have access to the names, addresses and details

**

To me that sounds very much like files that could risk lives, especially combined with the last line in the lawyer section

[ronnie624]

113. Can you be a little more specific?

How many lives will be lost and how, exactly, will they die?

[backscatter712]

134. Did it ever occur to you that releasing the file, outing the crooks in our government,

and putting an end to the wars, the dirty-dealing, the assassinations and torture and so on may save countless more lives than would be endangered?

[tomp]

155. kind of like the justification for hiroshima and nagasaki.

not that i don't support assange. i'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the people concerned about saving the lives of "our" agents around the world. the idea that people who work for the u.s. govt are a priori "innocent" is a huge leap. the idea that "our" govt (aka u.s. imperialism) is out there just trying to do good and defend "our" interests is delusional.

if the u.s. can blow up....well, everybody it blows up, whenever and wherever it likes...then it is hard, without cosmic levels of hypocrisy, to object to deaths incurred in exposing the corruption of the u.s. and other equally corrupt govts. one really can't morally have it both ways. in the long run, exposure of corruption is bound to save lives.

that being said, i don't want anyone to die. i want justice.

[yurbud]

220. how many lives is NOT knowing costing us? I'm guessing it's several orders of magnitude

greater, and not for particularly noble causes.

[martymar64]

256. Is it worth more human lives to keep gas in your SUV?

Is it worth more human misery to make your clothes or your shoes or your iphone?

[TorchTheWitch]

157. then you want him dead or captured?

Because that's the only way you're going to know.

Rather strange that someone who is supposedly such a huge believer in the public knowing the truth keeps the most important and most devistating information away from the public as his personal insurance.

If he really did think that this information was so terribly important for the public to know there would be nothing in the insurance file but a big fat file full of "nanny nanny boo boo! gotcha! nothing to see here but lots of photos and videos of cute kittens!" After all, if he's killed or captured that insurance file won't help him and releasing it would be nothing but personal revenge.

Apparently, it's not a "gotcha" file though and he really is keeping the most important and most devistating information away from the public (completely contrary to his supposed "truthness" belief) as his insurance file and will only release it in the event of his untimely death or capture for no earthly purpose other than personal revenge.

Yet so many here think he's the hero of the hour and there is nothing self-serving about this at all.

[defendandprotect]

111. kr

[struggle4progress]

112. He's already released his "insurance file." He just doesn't realize it yet.

Everybody with enough computational power is working right now to crack one of the 100K copies out there. If it's not a bluff garbage file, then I expect the Western Europeans will all crack it; Russia will crack it; India will crack it; China will crack it ...

[bemildred]

118. Yeah, likely so. The encryption method, IIRC, is NSA approved, hence likely breakable.

And last I heard 256 bit was not that considered that strong. There might well be non-governmental actors that could attempt it too, they could get a distributed computation attack going on it, as has been done for other scientific problems.

[Azathoth]

150. "Last you heard"?

256-bit block ciphers like Rijndael/AES are about as strong as it gets in terms of widely-available crypto implementations. Brute-forcing a 256-bit AES key would take millions of computers millions of years. The most sophisticated attacks known only become computationally feasible when the AES algorithm is deliberately weakened (by reducing the number of rounds of encryption for each block).

As I recall, AES-256 is certified for use on Top Secret documents. I highly doubt the NSA is going to a build a backdoor into their *own* secrets.

[bemildred]

239. OK, it's unbreakable.

Have a nice day.
:hi:

[Pavulon]

248. NO they would never do that.. except with DES

who says they would use brute force?

[Azathoth]

326. DES was never certified for high-level government classification

And despite decades of cryptanalysis and conspiratorial whispers, no backdoor into DES has ever been found. Indeed, the changes NSA made to DES were actually designed to make it more resistent to differential cryptanalysis.

Of course, they also convinced the designers to reduce the key to 56-bits, which they knew could potentially be brute-forced by a government agency with the money to build specialized hardware. But then again, that's why the algorithm was never cleared for government classification.

[Turborama]

126. Interesting but not Late Breaking News. He said that on Friday.

This OP gives the details: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4640754

Here's the actual results of the Q&A: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2010/dec/03/julian-assange-wikileaks

[Shining Jack]

127. K&R

He have cojones.

[Initech]

128. I wonder if he knows who really killed JFK.

[HEyHEY]

139. I gotta say, I don't blame him

With all the shit they tried to pull with the rape charges (if they aren't legit) and threats and stuff. I kind of like that he is able to fire back with some threats of his own.

[TexasObserver]

142. Good. They're going to kill him. That's what they do.

[HipChick]

169. Play with fire..

Get burnt...not sure what he would expect they'd do?

[DearAbby]

143. This Argument about Assange

reminds me of the Five Monkeys in a cage Experiment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0344qRfAOtA

Five Monkeys are placed in a cage, some bananas are hung into the cage within their reach. Each time a monkey would go to retrieve the bananas, All the monkeys would be sprayed with cold water, this happens a couple times until the monkeys stop going for the bananas completely. One Monkey is removed, and another is replaced. after a time the new monkey tries to get the bananas, no water is sprayed, this part of the experiment. Surprising thing happened, It is the other Four Monkeys who punish the bold monkey, preventing him from getting the bananas.

We don't need a government to police us and keep us in our place, we have other monkeys doing that for them. Funny thing is, they don't remember why.

I want to live in a world where secrets and shady deals are not tolerated. A Country says something, it is exactly what it means. TRUTH is supposed to set us free.

[xTx]

144. Hurrah! Hurrah! The Truth!

Living underneath a collapsing plutocracy id scurry though1!
HALP!!!!

[Catherina]

186. I knew there was a reason I liked you. +10,000 n/t

[liberation]

197. But... but... but....

what about the monkeys sex lives, that is the real part of the story. No?


:-)

[TexasObserver]

322. Five Monkeys in a cage Experiment is absolutely dead on.

And we see that in abundance in these discussions. The well trained and full of fear are easy to spot. They have been taught and have learned their lessons. They are volunteers in service to the powers that be, responding like dogs to the master's whistle.

[charlie]

146. I wonder where Globe and Mail got their scoop?

No one so far has claimed to know what's in the "insurance file." There's only been speculation. Suddenly, G & M knows exactly what it contains:

The 1.3-gigabyte file, distributed through file-sharing services this summer and protected with an unbreakable 256-bit encryption key, contains full versions of all the U.S. documents received by WikiLeaks to date – including those that have been withheld from publication or have had names and details removed in order to protect the lives of spies, sources and soldiers.

No attribution. Who told them? Why just them?

[HipChick]

162. unbreakable 256-bit encryption key?

someone leaked a key?

[Azathoth]

152. "Screw with me and I'll make innocent people suffer!"

Truly the battle cry of a moral person.

[ipaint]

163. It worked for the health insurance industry. Funny when it is the

elites that are being threatened with exposure the howling by them and their many liberal upper class apologists is deafening.

The ball is in the elite asshole's court. Quit the fascist bullshit and everybody stays safe.

As usual it comes down those people who know how to stand up and fight and those who know how to capitulate. The latter always loses as we saw in the health care debacle.

[Azathoth]

164. I didn't support the health insurance industry either

Threatening innocent people to get what you want isn't 'fighting', it's terrorizing.

[ipaint]

165. Sorry, the fight is never fair and innocent people pay with their lives all the time.

Ask the iraqi's. If the elite global terrorists can't behave they are still solely responsible for their crimes including the death of anyone as a result of the much needed daylight being shone on those crimes.

If they don't want that to happen then they need to shut the fuck up.

[laughingliberal]

167. +1,000,000 nt

[Azathoth]

172. +1,000,000 for threatening innnocent people? Okay...

:crazy:

[laughingliberal]

176. Nope. +1,000,000 for exposing the crooks and war mongers.

I'd be hard pressed to believe more would die as the result of a release by Wikileaks than we've killed in our wars for oil and resources.

[Pavulon]

249. yea, fuck them snitches in iran and n korea

they have it coming for helping amerikka,

[Bluerthanblue]

204. I don't recall the health insurance industry becoming a DU hero

or people on here cheering them on.

:shrug:

[ipaint]

224. No the administration did that in our names and folks here defended that.

A murderous industry bought easy access to the white house, the silence regarding universal health care of a president, the senate perp walked single payer advocates out of their little televised pr private ins. pow wow while they staffed themselves with industry insiders.

This bullshit that is preached about not fighting back and hitting just as hard or harder is just ridiculous. It's the failed liberal class's anthem for how to lose a country and betray a citizenry.

The poor elite terrorists that hold all of us hostage for profit, someone decides to fight back for our side effectively using their tactics against them and the hand wringers and worry warts for the elite are just up in arms.

All regular working people are going to need is a good example of a "no fucking compromises" win and then the elite will really have something to worry about because that whole mind your manners and meet in the middle meme that's shoved down everyone's throat constantly will go out the window.

[liberation]

200. Either "innocent" does not mean what you think it does...

... or you have no clue what the terms "spy" or "covert operative" imply.

I'd recommend tackling the basics first, like mastering basic vocabulary, before jumping into the advanced stuff like morality.

[Azathoth]

218. Oh, what a delightfully fumbling and jejune attempt at condescension

Maybe you should help Assange get his story straight. After all, one of the reasons proffered for drawing this whole thing out was that WikiLeaks had to read through some of the cables in order to protect innocent people. But, clever you, you've seen through that ruse!

Lesse see here...

Ahmed is a fisherman. He's poor but hardworking, doesn't really like the USA, but likes the appalling, murderous acts of terrorists even less. One day, he overhears some local extremists in his village talking about bombing some nice juicy target (maybe one of the targets from the US asset list Assange just released). So Ahmed decides he's going to do the moral thing and he contacts the local American embassy. The diplomatic staff can't really judge the veracity of his information, but they duly type up a report and cable it back to the State Department as well as to various intelligence agencies and the military. Ahmed goes back to his life, thinking he's done his good deed for the day. Unfortunately, Ahmed doesn't have a computer, so he doesn't realize that international superstar Julian Assange has just been arrested for partying a little too hard with some Swedish girls, and in retaliation, Assange has decided to release everything he has, including the embassy memo with Ahmed's name unredacted. Several days later, Ahmed is found by his children floating by the docks, strangled to death and wrapped in his own fishing nets.

Now, most of us (including, I daresay, Ahmed's children), would naively feel sorry for Ahmed. We would be under the impression that he was an innocent guy. But you, master of advanced moral mathematics that you are, have it all figured out. Ahmed is a "covert operative", a "spy", and well, he wasn't innocent after all. Thanks for setting us all straight.

[ProudDad]

233. What gives the "U.S."

the right to have an "Asset" in Ahmed's country?

Connect the dots and you'll see the real villain of the piece...

[blindpig]

240. 'innocent people'?, Don't think so.

These people are the functionaries of empire in the service of Capitalism. Ain't nothing innocent about that. This applies equally to spooks, diplomats, military personnel, none of those categories do anything to help the average person, on the contrary. They ain't 'us'.

[WolverineDG]

184. Well, now that Scotland Yard is closing in & the Swiss have frozen his accounts

now would be a good time to release the hounds, right? Sounds to me like a bluff is being called.

dg

[Jack Rabbit]

187. He should release them regardless

I am a citizen of a supposedly democratic state that the government of which has for most of my life engaged in lies and deception around public policy. I and other American citizens have a right to make informed decisions, and we have during this time been denied that right. Mr. Assange has done a small part in righting that wrong.

Shocking as some of these revelations are, few are surprising. One might suspect that the "reason" for classifying a great deal of such information is to shield our political "leaders" from embarrassment rather than any legitimate need to hide what US intelligence agencies know from other states. Mr. Assange came to our attention when he released video tape of a US helicopter attack against Iraqi civilians. What was the purpose of classifying that information? It certainly wasn't a secret from the people who were on the street that day and everybody knows those helicopters have video recording devices on them. There was no secret here, only the cover up of an embarrassment to the US military and to the policy makers who put those chopper pilots in that situation.

[laughingliberal]

188. I'm sure all will be released. Only difference will be the pace at which it's released. nt

[perdita9]

189. Assange is a Thief

Sorry, but I've got no admiration for this guy, just a lot of disgust.

Isn't Wikileaks the ones who stole emails from scientists setting of "Climate Gate"? A complete non-issue that wasted everyone's time and proved nothing.

If you take someone's protected property you are stealing, plain and simple.

[laughingliberal]

193. "Isn't Wikileaks the ones who stole emails from scientists setting of "Climate Gate"?"

Anything to back that up? Anything at all? I've seen nothing to suggest Wikileaks had anything to do with that.

If you've got it, bring it.

[laughingliberal]

219. Yep. Just as I thought. :crickets: nt

[liberation]

199. Yeah, why let things like facts and reality get in the way of your disgust...

... when you have self righteous narrative?

Wikileaks did not only stole those climate e-mails, but the also grease their servers with fresh blood from newborns every day. Oh, and they are also responsible for bad breath and they were the ones who introduced fruit cake.

[kenfrequed]

332. Mmm...

Well considering the number of mysterious posters here and absurd anger I think there is a coordinated effort to slime him going on here. Basically something of a spaghetti cooking technique through as much as you can to the wall until somethings stick or stain the wall.

[KansDem]

191. In the words of that famous Nike ad campaign...

[Better Believe It]

194. Government made those "sensitive" documents available to 2.5 million people!

Kristinn Hrafnsson, a WikiLeaks spokesman, told The Times that the list had been made available to 2.5 million people including military personnel and private contractors by the U.S. government, saying this was a "very wide distribution for information claimed to be of such high sensitivity."

"In terms of security issues, while this cable details the strategic importance of assets across the world, it does not give any information as to their exact locations, security measures, vulnerabilities or any similar factors, though it does reveal the U.S. asked its diplomats to report back on these matters," he told the paper.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40526224/ns/us_news-securit...

[Ozymanithrax]

195. Looks like Mr.s Assange isn't about openness.

If this were about open government, he would release these files. Instead, well, he uses them as blackmail. He is allowed to do what he wants and is untouchable. How J. Edgar Hoover of him, how Cheneyesque.

Assange = Cheney

[laughingliberal]

201. As I've said, he has every intention of releasing it all. Just sooner if anything happens...

to him. In fact, I believe he has a lot of it on dead man's switches in case anything happens to him. Otherwise, it will be released at a pace where the information can be absorbed.

[liberation]

202. If Assange = Cheney... Does that mean we should then leave him alone and look forward

and not dwell in the pass then?

Just to be consistent with the wishes of Mr. Obama of course. Or are you claiming Obama is wrong then?

[Bluerthanblue]

205. Assange=Cheney then DU should despise him.- or would have

before the world fell off it's axis.

[Azathoth]

227. To be fair, Assange did manage to bed two cute Swedish ladies

That's more good than Darth Cheney ever accomplished.

[WildEyedLiberal]

265. That's what gets me.

If he were 1/100th of the hero DU seems to think he is, he wouldn't hold ZOMG THE MOST IMPORTANT SEKRIT REVELATIONS IN THA WORLD!!!1111 hostage to his own ego. If they are so game-changing that he calls them a "thermonuclear device," shouldn't he - according to his own stated purposes - release them?

Unless all this has ever been about is Julian Assange getting his name in the news... what a shock. :eyes:

[phleshdef]

203. Right now, he is on good moral ground, if he releases people's names though, he is a piece of shit.

Period.

And any fucking person on this board that disagrees with that better have totally approved of Cheney and Libby outing Plame and they better be ready to fess up to their own blood lust. This is going to get people killed. And any antiwar protesting you've done in the name of saving lives means nothing.

[seabeyond]

325. i feel like he lost that with the last dumping. but i agree with you if he does this

with what he has, comes a great responsibility. i think he has already failed.

[slay]

207. It's time we stop hiding from the truth

for those of yall who don't understand why Assange releases these things slowly it's so wikileaks as well as the news organizations like the NYT and the foreign press can go over these documents and figure out what should and shouldn't be released - trying to keep people out of danger while still making sure the information we have a right to know about gets out.

that said, if the Powers That Be take him down and the only way for the info to get out is the uncensored "insurance file" then GOOD - i hope he uses it! until we face the problems our corrupt leaders have shackled us with we will never be able to fix them. knowledge is power. shame on those of yall who don't understand - the government is NOT on our side. they rarely are - not unless you're a powerful billionaire. do a little research on Assange before judging him - from everything i've read about him going back to 90's - he is on our side.

it's high time the truth saw the light of day in this increasingly secretive world in which we live - where fear and hatred seem to be the name of the game for soooo many.

[Hawkowl]

209. DO IT!

Release EVERYTHING and let the chips fall where they may. You can not have a secret democracy. We are well along the road to totalitarianism.

[northernlights]

210. This article is filled with mistakes, based on prior articles elsewhere, plus

I've yet to see Assange or his lawyers specifically state what is in the Insurance files. I have seen speculation by others that Insurance is the whole thing...but that has been pure speculation.

The two woman involved admitted the sex was consensual. The 1st woman wasn't going to file a complaint re: the condom. It was he said/she said as to whether he *knew* that it broke. The second woman knew there was no condom. She's a grown up and she chose to go ahead. Claiming coercion after the fact -- especially days later when you suddenly discover the "cad" slept with someone else a couple days prior -- is hardly rape or a crime, at least imho.

Furthermore, Assange has not refused to meet with the Swedish prosecutor, and in fact has offered to meet many times -- WHILE HE WAS STILL IN THE COUNTRY. He also got WRITTEN PERMISSION TO LEAVE Sweden.

It is only now, that they are trying to extradite him that he fears going, amid death threats from Americans, to a country that is KNOWN TO HAVE PARTICIPATED IN RENDITION.

The article totally ignores that information, as well as reporting what has until now been speculation as fact.

So I'm giving this one a pass. Until Assange confirms what is in Insurance -- or releases it -- we don't really know what it holds.

That said, I hope they get that Bank information out sooner rather than later.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

215. He better do it NOW!

[earth mom]

216. What's he waiting for? He should do it before they catch him. nt

[Paper Roses]

222. I am of a mixed mind about WikiLeaks. If all is known via his information,

perhaps the world would be a better place. I'm sure the price on his head is high but if he has a conscience, and not just a big ego, he is doing the world a service. With all the warmongering that is go in the world today, maybe some of his revelations will help the throat cutting and behind the scenes self serving actions. Not just the US, everyone.

I hope Assange remains safe and that all the nasty, underhanded stuff is brought forth. Howe much lower can we go.

If the government so controls every thing we hear and do, how will be ever know what to be enraged about. Certainly never hear it in the news.

[ProudDad]

232. It's not about the contents of the document leaks

it's ALL about the fact that in today's interconnected cyber-world...

The keepers of nasty secrets cannot keep their nasty "secrets" any more...

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/WikiLeaks+turns+conspiracy+against+itself/3928284/story.html

[Deep13]

230. I know what will solve this whole mess.

Tax cuts for the rich. :hide:

[slay]

234. rofl

according to republicans and their rich creepy shadowy corporate masters - that will solve EVERYTHING! :hide:

[NoPasaran]

236. Bring it, Rape Boy!

[abelenkpe]

238. Lame

Innocent until proven guilty. Good thing you're not on the jury, just a member of the lynch mob who clearly has not read anything about the charges.

[BlueIris]

242. On the one hand, crazy. On the other hand: isn't this what you wanted to do all along?

If so, get on with it.

[Emillereid]

250. Sure wish Obama knew how to play hardball like Julian Assange!

Julian Assange for President?

[shanti]

266. DO IT

NOW

btw, is anyone noticing how much this issue is dividing us on DU? there are so many DU'ers whom i have always respected that are calling assange a traitor (or worse). this saddens me very much!

[Bragi]

268. I can clear up any confusion between Cheney and Assange

Cheney is a war criminal.

Assange exposes war criminals.

Any questions?

[trud]

275. release the whole thing

Give a week's notice so that spies can flee. Then make everything public,

[Pavulon]

303. You guys are really myopic. If you are a citizen of north korea you CANT flee, if you are held

in IRAN right now and your name turns up, you cant leave. You just die. So either you people are ok with that math or really dont understand the impact.

Their names are the ones that will cause damage.

You are not involved because of the above logic, prop 8 is what happens when every fucking moron gets a say.

If those people happen to be US Assets and they are executed bradley will catch a death penalty charge, like the form he signed clearly stated.

And assange's entire organization will face the same charges gerald bull did.

[ronnie624]

317. All the deaths you attribute to Assange, exist nowhere but in your head.

The victims of U.S. foreign policy on the other hand, are forever a part of documented history.

[Imagevision]

312. Prediction, Assange will committ suicide - or so we'll be told...

[Lucian]

319. He needs to hold onto it. It's his insurance card.

As much as I'd love to see the whole file unencrypted, the only way he's going to stay out of Gitmo is to hang onto the file, unless he's caught or "falls down some stairs" - ie mysterious death.

[BlueIris]

336. I hate to post it, because I don't want anyone hurt or killed here, but

I feel that is unavoidable at this point. And he knew it was a significant possibility (read: near certainty) when he leaked this stuff to begin with.

[Creative]

339. Now, later...it really doesn't make much difference.

Why wait?

[Sheepshank]

342. Damn, missed opportunities

we could have used that "hostage situation", to get Single payer, deny the rich a tax break, repeal DADT and have Boner, McConnell step aside and maybe ever get Cheney to fess up. Darn, it could have been nice. Assange...if you are reading, a little hand here while you are dismantling everything else.