Jobless folks, is the compromise worth it?

[MoonRiver]

Maybe extending the tax cuts was the only way to extend unemployment benefits. Maybe when we had a solid majority over the last two years Obama and congress should have been more proactive ending the tax cuts and extending unemployment benefits. Was there a road less traveled that Obama and congress should have traveled?
:shrug:

[MadHound]

1. Yeah, the road of standing up and fighting.

If the Dems would have actually stood up and fought, way back last year on the stimulus or for the public option, we wouldn't be here today. Instead, our lack of spine has only emboldened the 'Pugs, and they've become ever more obstinate every single time something comes up.

Stand up, fight, show some spine, otherwise the 'Pugs are just going to make it worse.

[DrDan]

2. this was also the message from many here during the HCR enactment

the WH was certainly not listening then either.

I expect nothing but more of the same during the next 2 years.

[elocs]

3. If you are jobless you are concerned about the road you are on now,

not the road that should have been traveled. It gets old when those who have jobs call for the jobless to bite the bullet on this whole mess, but the jobless have to deal with life as it is now and not the woulda, shoulda, coulda.

[MadHound]

4. Speak for your own jobless self,

This unemployed teacher is sick and tired of an administration and Congress that have caved, time and again, and frankly I'd rather let everything expire than continued Republican appeasement. You continue to meet 'Pugs demands, the more outrageous those demands will get.

[elocs]

7. I am speaking for myself and people need to do what they need to do to survive.

It's easy for people with jobs to tell the jobless that they should forgo further unemployment benefits, maybe let their family go hungry, not be able to pay their bills, lose their house. Until I see a long line of the jobless willing to give up what is needed to care for their families it's going to take more than one unemployed teacher to dispel that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. What If You Had A Family

What if you had a family and the jobless benefits stood between them and starving?

[Donnachaidh]

10. It's obscene that we even have to HAVE this conversation

We faced homelessness, less than a year ago. And even living in a southern state, the prospect of living in our car, 2 adults, one teen, and pets - scared me spitless. I did *whatever* I had to do to get bills paid.

WHY are we even asking this? We worked to get our party a majority, and a Dem president who *claimed* he would work for the middle class. And 2 years later we have a Depression no one wants to acknowledge, and a traitorous minority party that is being allowed to act like psychotic children.

It's not FAIR - It's IMMORAL -- it's f*cking OBSCENE.

[GoCubsGo]

12. THANK YOU!!!!

And, it's fucking obscene that people are rolling over and accepting their blackmail.

[MadHound]

13. I would still rather the Dems would stand and fight

Look, even if the unemployment benefits get extended, all that's going to happen is that we're going to be facing this disaster in one year. Do you honestly think that a Republican House is going to vote for extension next year? No.

Yes, you get one year of benefits, that's nice for the short term. But the fact of the matter is that in the long term we all lose. All that tax cut money added on to our debt is going to continue to prevent our economy from coming anywhere near a full recovery for the foreseeable future. And with that debt hanging over our head, all the recommendations put out by the Catfood Commission, they will become fodder in a bipartisan effort to reduce the debt. Which would you rather see, the current unemployed go through some tough times now, or the old and disabled having to deal with SS and Medicare reductions next year and the years after.

Democrats, in the Congress and the WH, have been skillfully maneuvered into this position by failing to fight, time and again. More of the same is not the answer.

Oh, and before you say that it's easy for me to say these things, it isn't. I'm currently unemployed, without benefits. I have suffered from crippling unemployment before, been harmless and starving for two years during the Reagan administration. But throughout, despite the pain it would cost me, I would rather have the Democratic party stand up and do what is right rather than continue to cave to the 'Pugs. Otherwise we simply keep on the same path we're on now, merrily headed down that road to complete destruction.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. When my family was in need, the majorithy community said

that we were not a family, because we do not fit the Rick Warren/Donnie McClurkin requirements to be a 'real' family.
So. What if you had a family, and society just said 'no, you don't have a family'? What if? What would you do?
You'd realize you are on your own, and that the majority of people do not care a bit about that injustice. Not a bit. In fact, even those on 'our side' will speak of patients and ponies when we point out the unfair and discriminatory laws.
What if you had a family, and the majority insisted they were just strangers to you?

[jaxx]

5. Don't use the unemployed as the whipping post.

That's lowdown.

Also if people have gripes about the legislation passed, or not passed, then go to the congress. Namely the rightwing side of the congress who have put holds on the bills to keep them from being voted on time and time again. This thing of thinking Obama and the Democrats have a magic wand to make the GOP go away is foolish talk.

[MoonRiver]

6. I wasn't putting jobless down, which is perfectly obvious from my OP.

I'm just asking if this was the best Obama and congress, NOT the jobless, could have done.

[jaxx]

8. Jobless folks, is the compromise worth it?

That says put down to me, like it's all their fault. If it's not their being there why use them as the compromise wedge? They have no choice in being unemployed.

I'm damn glad the President is sticking up for the people who will lose their income. Their survival outweighs the bushie tax cuts.

[MoonRiver]

36. I DID NOT SAY IT WAS THEIR FAULT.

What about the English language do you not understand? I was asking those in this predicament whether the compromise was worth it. NUFF SAID.

[MadHound]

16. Stop using faux Democratic compassion for the unemployed as an excuse to benefit the rich

I'm unemployed, furthermore I already don't receive benefits. But the fact of the matter is that I can take a long view on this, as can many other people, both unemployed and otherwise. Every single time that the Democrats have caved, it simply makes the 'Pugs demands more outrageous and their stance even more firm.

If you want real change in this country, you have to stand and fight for it. No, Obama can't wave a magic wand, but he and the Democrats can use the bully pulpit, stand up and fight for what is right. But this seems to have escaped the current crop of Dems, so they're going to continue to give away our future in exchange for a few short term gains and a handful of magic bipartisan beans.

[jaxx]

17. Why don't you get benefits?

Sometimes the politics have to become second in line when the welfare of millions of people and their families are at stake. People over politics.

Nothing could become more outrageous than they have been, and will continue to be, for the past 2 years. They have put the country aside in their zeal to defeat this President. Now people want the Dems to do the same thing with unemployment. No way.

[MadHound]

20. So you're willing to exchange minimal short term gain in exchange for long term, widespread pain

Do you realize how utterly ridiculous that is? You're willing to toss out SS, Medicare and other Democratic programs, because with the massive increase in the debt load, that is exactly what will happen.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Two Points And Two Questions

1) If the economy remains stagnant we will not be able to sustain those programs as the deficit will continue to grow from declining tax receipts.

2) The Republicans will just wait to the next Congress to try to pass tax cuts for everybody. Even if President Obama vetoes it they will still have their issue and we won't have unemployment benefits. Do you think there is a bat's chance in Hell they will extend it?

3) Even if you are willing to risk homelessness, starvation, freezing to death et cetera, do you think it's fair to consign millions of other innocent people to that fate?

[MadHound]

So, lard on extra debt, yeah, that's the ticket, that's the way to get that economy moving

Sorry, but tax cuts are the least effective form of economic stimulus. If we pass these extensions, we're all but guaranteeing that the economy won't grow. Is that what you want?

Yes, the 'Pugs will wait to the next Congress in order to try and pass the tax cuts. Guess what, they only have power in the House.

So if this thing goes through, we will be adding on massive debt, a perfect bipartisan excuse to cut SS and Medicare. Are you willing to trade short term pain relief for five million in exchange for economic devastation for tens of millions down the road, tens of millions of the least able among us, the elderly and disabled. Hell of a bargain you're willing to make.

[KharmaTrain]

31. Appears To Be All Shapes Of Jobless Here...

It can be simplified as to those who are getting benefits and fear losing them and those who aren't getting any at all. Thus a more militant stand against any compromise from those who are already on the outs and won't really benefit from this compromise.

To answer your questions...you have hit a big nail on the head that is a major elephant (not sure if pun intended) in the room. The defecit is depressing the consumer economy and keeping credit frozen. Add more to it and it will continue to remain tight. That does nothing to create jobs or energize the flow of money in the consumer market that then will generate more in taxes. We're in a real pickle as this is the time were govermnent spending could be the catalyst but so much of the federal budget goes to the military and entitlements that any extra spending will just compound things.

The rushpublicans don't and won't pass permanent tax cuts next year. It's too juicy a campaign issue for them in '12. While they may posture and pass something in the House, the Democrats still control the agenda and what can be called to the floor. Reid can ignore it and just as 41 votes were the burr in the Democrats saddle in the past, in this case it means any House bill, even if Reid plays footsies with it, won't have the votes. Obama will never have to Veto.

Be prepared for two years of posturing and gridlock...and the growing right wing noise about "tax and spend" Democrats. Those who are jobless are on their own and understandable how there's a divide between those directly affected and those who have been totally alienated.

[jaxx]

23. I don't do 'what if'.

The fact is that millions will lose all income if unemployment isn't extended. That is the here and now. If it takes letting the bushie tax cuts run on for a year, let them. Has this country become so jaded that the people no longer matter?

[MadHound]

26. Here's another fact for you then,

We lard on these tax cuts to our debt load, and that trigger to cut SS and Medicare will be pulled. Yes, in the short term, for one year, five million people will have benefits. In the long term, tens of millions of the weakest among us, the elderly and disabled, will see their lives ruined. Is that what you want? Short term gain in exchange for long term, massive pain?

Sorry, but that's a bad deal.

[jaxx]

27. You are assuming.

How do you make the distinction about who lives and who dies? These are tough times, there are very few jobs. We do not know what will happen with SS and Medicare. Today is on the line.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jaxx]

30. I'd be worried about calling others fools and politically naive if I were you.

Seems to me that commission came to nothing. Didn't get the votes needed. So all the bs rhetoric about it would do this and it would do that was really hot air. Naive would be yelling the sky was falling when it was just some people meeting who exchanged ideas. The President may well 'consider' ideas in the report, that by no means says he will adopt them. Again, it is assuming the worst and presenting it as fact. That just ain't so.

[GoCubsGo]

11. No.

It is not worth it. It only lessens my chance of ever finding a job again. Most jobs in my field are government jobs, or jobs funded by government grants. Since this revenue will not be coming in, not only will they not be creating new jobs or providing more grant money, they'll probably be laying off people.

And, FWIW, I'm beyond collecting UI. That ended long ago. I am fucked.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. How Does Helping People

How does helping people who can't find a job in twenty six weeks and face homelessness, starvation, and freezing to death lessen your chances of finding a job and where is the equity of cutting off some folks at twenty six weeks when others had ninety nine weeks to find a job?

[GoCubsGo]

32. The same way I would.

By getting jobs that would be created with this new revenue.

BTW, I didn't get an extension after my 26 weeks, either. That was in 2007. So, don't be spouting this "equity" shit at me. I already know what it's like to not have those benefits, because I have been living that for going on four years now, so spare me the "homeless/starvation/freezing" drama bullshit.

[old mark]

15. The brainlessness is in letting the GOP call the plays. Democrats HAD IT ALL,

and dithered around till they lost it, now are trying to catch up on neglected work in the last weeks, again at the republicans whim.

The Democratic Party should be rebuilt from the ground up, or else it will continue to be a waste of time.

There will shortly be over 2 million people without the unemployment checks. To compare their real plight against the Democratic scoring political points is nonsense, but Obama was a real fool to let it come to this point and expect republican cooperation. They will beat him like a dog and he deserves every bit of it.

mark

[ArcticFox]

18. Let the jobless benefits expire if its the price of fighting

Obama needs to make clear why, is all. Turn peoples' hunger into hatred of the capitalists. Let them be stepped on by the rich.

Giving in is chickenshit.

If we fight those in power now, we might have a future. Giving them what they want for what amounts to a hill of beans will leave us even worse off in the future.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. While They Are Hating The Capitalists They Will Be Starving To Death

~

[OKNancy]

22. I can hardly stand coming here any more

I really think some people are just cold and heartless. Are readers here really liberals?
I thought liberals cared more about PEOPLE.
I think it's a price Obama and the Democrats will have to pay for the greater good.
Of course I am pragmatic and realistic.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Is your fridge going to be empty in two weeks?

Do you have rent money for January?

Turn peoples' hunger into hatred of the capitalists.

Easy enough to say if you're not the one going hungry, or watching your kids go hungry.

[ArcticFox]

35. Please, sir, may I have another?

We're headed down that road. Maybe we've already gone too far, broken down and have no hope of ever returning to the "good old days" (there were people starving a few years ago too, remember). More and more, I fear we will see more and more people just one unemployment check from starvation. I hope I'm wrong, but in five years we could see ten million peoples' lives on the line instead of the two million we're talking about today. And the argument for giving in to the rich oppressors will only become stronger as time goes on.

I am not heartless wishing for people to die. I am only pointing out that we've begun down the slippery slope of letting ourselves be terrorized by the way the economy has been handled recently. The rich will only get richer and the poor poorer unless there is a great groundswell to topple the current balance of power and finance. Plus, if people really do begin starving, etc., there are things the President could do with executive orders to intervene to stop the starvation. If we can ship food to Haiti or the Phillippines, we can do the same for our people here at home.

Sometimes (relatively) small sacrifices need to be made in order to avoid larger calamities in the future.

[budkin]

25. How pathetic is it that our "reward" from all this is unemployment extension? It's sick.

[MilesColtrane]

33. I think Obama's looking at things this way.

Even if the rich start paying more in taxes, as long as a divided Congress controls the budget, there is no guarantee that that money will be allocated to those who need it most.

He's trading a possible future equitable redistribution for an immediate benefit for many people who don't know where there next bag of groceries or rent check is coming from.

[raouldukelives]

34. Not at all..But

If the plan is to keep providing unemployment benefits until the tax cuts for the rich reduce the jobless rate to under 5% then I could muster some support for it.

[Dappleganger]

37. Perhaps the better question should be...

where are the jobs?? Fuck extensions, people want to WORK!!